#119 Unni Turrettini - The Epidemic of Loneliness

0 (0s): What is the solution to these women that they don't feel the career boss babe thing is the solution. They don't wanna be a stay at home and they're looking for some kind of hybrid solution. I 1 (10s): Think it's a really tough world for women today. And the world that we are sort of pushed into corporate wise and business wise is a male world. 0 (19s): I was fed a lie, which is that you can have everything all at once and that's simply not true. 1 (25s): Unfollow people and influencers that make you feel bad about yourself, 0 (29s): The patriarchy, like, I hate that word so much. 1 (32s): Isolate mammals. You isolate animals, humans, and we get sick, we get depressed and we die. 0 (39s): If your doctor isn't asking you how much water you're drinking, what you're eating, how much you're sleeping, how much you're exercising, and how much you go outside, you don't have a doctor, you have a drug dealer. Uni, welcome to the podcast. I'm really excited to meet you and have this conversation. 1 (58s): Candace, I am so excited to be here. Thank you for having me. 0 (1m 2s): I was, I always do a little bit of like snooping right before I'm like, okay, what are they up to? And like there have been times where I see people post, I'm like, and I cancel it because I'm like, nevermind. They get, they get into something really crazy. I have been loving all of your recent stuff and I really like that you are not afraid to kind of jump into pol. Not even like all political, but like social, social and cultural topics Yeah. That are really relevant. And you offer a third perspective a lot of times, which I think is really beautiful because there's so much division when it comes to anything polarizing. And sometimes maybe that's necessary, right? Like they're, they're very much, I believe there is like good and evil, but I think it would be a really good practice to exercise third perspective and what else could, what other angle can we kind of look at this thing? 0 (1m 50s): And the one that I thought was interesting was, what is the, it's this football player and I'm gonna mess up his name. Bucker. Yeah. I don't even know, I don't follow sports. Like my, one of my co-hosts on my other show, he is always like, anytime someone talks about sports, just go, yay, he is sports. 'cause I have no idea what I'm talking about. But I did see his speech that kind of went viral and I was really surprised at the backlash that a lot of people are having, especially these high powered celebrity women. And your perspective, like my interpretation of your post was his solution wasn't exactly the answer either. 0 (2m 32s): So I guess when it comes to women, there is a huge lack of purpose or like feeling like we fit in to a lot of things. And I would love your perspective and then I'll share mine, but like, what is the solution to these women that they don't feel the career boss babe thing is the solution. They don't wanna be a stay at home and they're looking for some kind of hybrid solution. 1 (2m 58s): Yeah. Such a great question, a great conversation and something we could talk about for days I feel, because I think the problem for, for women today is that we're not valued, the feminine isn't valued. So I what I think the feminist movement got wrong, although you, like of course, you know, we want equal opportunity, we wanna be valued as equal, all those things. Of course. But what happened was that we were kind of pushed into this, this working professional success model for men. And so that's not helping us because we are, and as you know, like we're just talking about this being a mom, you know, trying to, to, to juggle all the things, all the roles that we play, you know, as, as a spouse, as a mom, as a, as a business woman, all these things. 1 (3m 51s): It's really tough. And coming into, and I, I used to work in the corporate world and it was just so hard that I had to leave that world when I became a mom because it just wasn't, it was, it was a choice that we made when our kids were born. Is that, am I gonna be the mom who's away all the time traveling and doing her business and then just hiring a nanny to take care of the kids and, and, and raise the kids? Or am I, I'm actually just gonna take a break from working and being at home with my mom, with, with the kids. But either way, I feel that, and, and, and that's a choice. 1 (4m 32s): That's a, that's, and I respect whatever choice a woman makes, but it's really hard. It's a really tough one because you, you, you lose either way because being a home, and that's something that I've struggled with. What is, like who am I, what's my identity as a stay at home mom and what's my value? Am I really valued by my spouse by society? Not really. So it's like, it's a, it's a tough, I think it's a really tough world for women today and the world that we are sort of pushed into corporate-wise and business-wise is, is a male world. And so we're just, we're just going in there in our masculine energy and not really bringing what we have to bring to the table, which is our feminine energy. 1 (5m 23s): If that makes sense. 0 (5m 24s): And with a quick interruption to the episode, I hope you're really enjoying the conversation. If you could take a second outta your time and hit that like, and subscribe, it would help us out a ton. Thank you. And let's get back to the episode. For me, the frustrating part because I, I am still very much trying to figure it out. I feel weekly that I have these internal conflicts where I'm trying to figure out what is the life that I really want and how do I make that happen? Because for me, my pattern is getting in my own way all of the time, time I'm constantly doing that. And it, a lot of it is kinda like that Cher tole way of thinking, which is almost all of the suffering that you are experiencing has not happened and never will happen. 0 (6m 9s): It's just all in your mind. Yeah. So I'm like, okay, well how can I alleviate that? Because it's always the, these worries of not showing up a hundred percent in work, right? Like we've rescheduled this twice because of me and I had like personal family stuff, I had to move, move around. And then today, like we have people in town that kind of extended their trip and like they're all out and I'm here and it's like always feeling like you're supposed to be in multiple places at the same time and it's impossible. So crafting your life very intentionally. And I think where this, I, I'm so sorry I'm messing up his name, but this football player is getting it right, is that I was fed a lie, which is that you can have everything all at once and that's simply not true. 0 (6m 58s): Yeah. Especially as a woman. And it's not because of like the patriarchy. Like I hate that word so much. Yeah. It's not because of the patriarchy. It is because anyone who has any, anyone who has children know that for the first however many years they just want mama. Yeah. Right. Like it's, there is a difference and it's just biology. So yeah, that does mean that the, the mom is gonna be the one that is making a lot of the sacrifices on the front end. And that's gonna flip later, especially if you have boys. But you do have to have an honest inventory of what do you want. So do you want to sacrifice some of that time and you know, what's the word? Like delegate some of the childcare and then that way you can focus on some of your career. 0 (7m 41s): Do you want to just do your career? But I think that there, a lot of the, the feeling of inadequacy or like not showing up is just 'cause we haven't committed to a decision in like an honest way. Yeah. So you, we perpetuate the lie that we can do it all at the same time and it's not true. There's gonna be a trade off. And for me, I'm very lucky because I can do this podcast like once a week and we have these other huge projects that we're trying to open up a school and it's like, oh wow. Yes, I know. Huge, huge awesome undertaking. And I was like, you know what, if it comes down to it, it's going to like, the school is gonna take all of my time and that is for my kids. And if I, I have to stop the podcast for a while, that's what I do because I have to be honest about my priorities. 0 (8m 23s): Yeah. And I think moms feel guilty because they know on some level they're prioritizing their career over their kids when they are making that choice to trade off. And it must be really hard if that work is not yours. Like if you're working for someone else. So it's different if you are an author or public speaker Yeah. Podcast or whatever and you're reinvesting into yourself, but to give something which is your most precious asset, which is your time. Yeah. Just else, especially if you feel underappreciated, like that's gotta suck. Yeah. So I he does get it right, is that we have been fed this lie that your career is the most important thing and that's what is gonna be seen as valuable. And it's just not true. 0 (9m 3s): It's not true at all because you go through a cemetery, one of my friends just had a bit about this and he's like, what do you notice on tombstones? It's not net worth or if you were a C executive, it's like mom, father, son, all of these touch points. And that's where value is. 1 (9m 18s): That's right. And where I think Butcher is really courageous to speak out. Although he did get, actually, he did get standing ovation at the, the school that he, at the college. And a lot of people have applauded him, you know, on social media as well. So, but there of course there was this huge backlash that it's sort of unacceptable to to, but I, where I think he's right is that it's okay. It's, it's, it's valuable to choose to be at home as well and take care of your family. And you know, as you said, whether we like it or not, there are sacrifices with both. 1 (9m 59s): So you, you, you stay, you, you take a break in your career, in your professional work to stay at home with the kids, you are actually sacrificing. You can never get back what you, those years that you kind of lost in the, in the business world and, and, and if you choose to work and you know, do what you, whatever you can at home with the kids, you are also sacrificing. So it's, it's, it's, it's a really, it's a really tough choice. But I do think that in our society today, it is not at all, at least not in my world with, in my, where I live and, and you know how we are brought up here in, in Norway and Europe and even, and I worked in New York as well, it's not, not even there, it is not acceptable or encouraged today to be a stay at home mom. 1 (10m 52s): And that I think is really sad because it is the most important job in the world. So 0 (10m 58s): You are, you're based in Norway. 1 (10m 60s): Yeah. And also I was, 0 (11m 1s): Was, I was watching this TED talk, it was after I was watching yours, I got into this loop and she was talking about how in Norway and like the Netherlands and that whole region loneliness is one in, or is six is, she calls it being haunted by loneliness. It's 16% of the population. And what is really ironic about that is the rest of the world looks at you guys as the happiest people in the world. And if 16% are suffering, or not even suffering, but being haunted by loneliness, you're like, whoa, what does that mean for the rest of us? And me being in the states, I know we're kind of the worst when it comes to feeling isolated, depressed, anxious. 0 (11m 47s): It's almost like those rats in the cage, right? Like you take, you take them and you overcrowd them and you give them everything that they need and all of a sudden they're not thriving, they're not mating and they're showing all of these abnormalities. Yeah. And I kind of think that's what's happening in the west. Yeah. 1 (12m 4s): And by the way, it's higher than 16%. Okay. They say that one in four people globally are dealing with loneliness in the United States one out of two. But what I, what what I've seen in the research that I've studied, I think that in the United States with Cigna and all the work that's been done now when it comes to loneliness and connection, I think you just have better data in the us I think we're just as lonely over here as you are in the us. What I think is is funny though, and I've written about this, which is not a popular opinion that I have, but you know, Scandinavia, you know, the l the the, the happiest countries in the world and, and the Netherlands and all these, you know, Norway and Denmark are always in, in the sort of top 10 at the very least. 1 (12m 58s): We are very conformed countries, especially Norway. So here you're supposed to fit into that little box and you're supposed to behave like everybody else. Think like everybody else, talk like everybody else, dress like everybody else. And so when they interview people to ask them all these questions to see, okay, how happy are you when everyone is thinking that, oh, everybody else said they were so happy, so therefore I also must be happy. So I believe that people are responding in a way that they think they are expected to, to respond as, you know, being conformed. 1 (13m 43s): So I don't believe we are happier. I think there is a dishonesty there about how happy we really are. We also are pretty high up on the suicide 0 (13m 57s): Statistics. So I was just gonna ask that. Yeah. Do you know the numbers? 1 (14m 0s): I can't remember the numbers. I haven't checked now recently, but we're definitely up there. And that's also in the wintertime in Norway. It's so dark. I mean it's, it's, I mean, I get down, I feel I have less energy. It's really hard when you don't have sunshine. I don't know where you live, Candace, but over here in the winter it's dreadful. So that makes people depressed and of course it does. 0 (14m 25s): Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's interesting. I I never thought about the expectation when it comes to answering those questions because it is in that, I don't know if it was the Swiss or not, but whoever kind of started pioneering those death pods, right? I just had this Oh yeah. Have you seen them? 1 (14m 43s): I haven't actually. 0 (14m 44s): Oh, they are eerie. It's, it looks like this pod that you would kind of shoot out into space and you go into it and it basically knocks you out and then you die. So like, it, it sucks all the oxygen out and they look at it as this act of compassion and you know, you should be able to do this. And I recently had Kelsey Sheeran on, and she is a huge advocate when it comes to mental health and taking care of vets and what Canada's doing with their maid program. Yeah. And yeah, how can you be the, one of the happiest countries in the world if you're also pioneering suicide pods? That doesn't make sense. 1 (15m 19s): Doesn't make sense. No. So I think there are a lot of, and there's a lot of marketing, I would say as a, as as countries to show the rest of the world how successful we are and how happy we are. So there's, so there's some of that too. 0 (15m 36s): Oh, propaganda. You wouldn't say That's not a thing. No, I wrote, I was trying to look up some research when it came to loneliness and let me see if I can find these numbers, because some of them were really surprising to me. And obviously like I get, I'm sure everyone who's like creating content, it's, it's a similar ailment we all have to suffer, which is everyone telling you you're not qualified. So I'm gonna lean into that and like, by not being qualified if I have access to these numbers, you have to ask what governments and politicians and professionals are doing when, if they are the people that are supposed to be qualified, I'm assuming they have access to this and much better information. 0 (16m 21s): So if we're gonna talk about the dangers of being lonely, it is the same as smoking 15 cigarettes a day. It's more dangerous than being an alcoholic. Yeah. It can increase your risk of cardiovascular disease by 29%. Your risk of stroke by 32% weakened immune response. Diabetes, obesity doubles your likelihood of getting dementia. And it is one of the main indicators of premature death. 1 (16m 50s): Yeah. 0 (16m 51s): So if we know that Why on earth if there is something that is making people sick, do you make them isolate and do you force them to be by themselves? And again, as speaking as the unqualified person that I am, if I have access to the, these statistics, then I would assume what the professionals do as well. And there's that quote where it's like, don't, don't put to malice what can be explained by stupidity. And sure. Like that's probably true. But I tend to lean with, I'm hoping not everyone at the top is stupid. So I do think that there is some kind of intention, and I don't know what it is, but I think it goes back to just like you have to question things. 0 (17m 36s): Yeah. 1 (17m 36s): Right. 0 (17m 37s): You have to question things. You don't just blindly accept what people are kind of telling you to do, especially when you inherently know that that's wrong. 1 (17m 44s): Yeah. And we saw that during the pandemic, right? That we were isolated. They isolated, you know, over here. Our kids didn't go to school for, for, you know, a lot of the, the two years that, that it went on, we couldn't leave the country 'cause we wouldn't be able to come back. People couldn't visit their families and, and relatives and, and friends. And it was really, really tough. And what I read of some of the European and Swiss also Swiss experts on epidemics and pandemics, they, there were actually protocols that were signed that we're supposed to, this is how we do it in case of a pandemic. 1 (18m 33s): What do we do? What are the, the steps that we, that we, that we take as governments, as people? And one of the things in those protocols that I believe they were signed by all the countries in 2014, and they said very clearly, they stated very clearly that do not isolate the whole population, only isolate the sick people. Because being isolated and just goes to show what we know about loneliness, isolation is more dangerous than the illness itself. And we're, we're, I don't, I think we haven't even seen the top of the iceberg when it comes to the mental health and health issues that we're dealing with and we're going to be dealing with in the coming years. 1 (19m 24s): And according to the World Health Organization and, and the un, they predict that depression is going to be the number one cause of disability in the world by 2030. Wow. That's only a few years out. And already now it's one of the tops. So people are increasingly depressed and we know that isolation and, and you mentioned the, the, the Rat pack study. And we have so many studies like that that show that you, you isolate mammals, you isolate animals, humans, and we get sick, we get depressed and we die. That's just, we are meant, we are hardwired to be together to connect. 1 (20m 8s): And so that's more dangerous than, than the virus. 0 (20m 13s): There's so many places I wanna go with that. I feel that with most things they, the tool becomes the energy you put into it. Mm. Do you know what I mean? So when it comes to something like social media, I think it's, it's a huge conversation right now, Jonathan, he is kind of making a massive campaign to, in the states at least to make social media illegal, I guess, or restricted for kids under a certain age. Florida's kind of already pushing forward with this and it is kind of a blanket demonization of the tool. And don't get me wrong, I, I definitely think there is a too early to have access to the internet and social media, 1000% full stop. 0 (20m 56s): However, when it comes to things like loneliness, I think it's easy to say that we're really disconnected because we're, we're kind of using this as a proxy. We're using our phone as a proxy for connection. And it's not the same, but for some people that might be the only thing that they have. Yeah. So it's, you have to look at your position and what is available to you. Like if you are in a position where you're, you can talk to your barista or you have one good friend, or you can go to the park and maybe like start up a conversation with someone at the, you know, as you're passing by versus someone who might not have any touchpoints throughout the day. Those are two different examples. So one person, this thing might be really valuable and there's this podcast, it's called Drinking Bros. 0 (21m 40s): And like the foundation of what got, of how they became so wildly successful, it's veteran ran and they started doing meetups with people online. Like they started Facebook groups and it, the idea was suicide prevention and no one should have to drink by themselves. So if you need a buddy to just sit next to you, right? Because like there's this saying that guys sit shoulder to shoulder and women sit eye to eye. So let like dudes be dudes. And if all you need is that masculine space and have someone hold it for you, then what? We'll do that. And that is a beautiful example of technology filling the void of loneliness and making a really big difference. But then you can look at high schoolers probably in particular, and they're going down the hall and they're texting and they're not doing any touchpoints and they have the availability, right? 0 (22m 27s): You're, it's hundreds of people that are at your disposal, at your disposal and you're choosing to ignore it. So I think you have to have like a very individualized diagnosis and you can't just say, this is inherently wrong or this is inherently good. Agree. So I guess like, I agree. Yeah. How do you, how do you approach technology, especially as a, a parent and how, what access do you allow your kids and what do you tell them how to, how to use this tool? 1 (22m 53s): Yeah, it's a great question and something that I don't have the answer to that I feel that my husband and I, we have pretty much let go. My kids are now 14 and 16 going on 17. And we have pretty much let them choose as long as they're done with their homework and they do well in school, they can, my son, he's, he's big on gaming. He games a lot. And actually for him during the pandemic when he couldn't meet his friends and be at school, his, the, the fact that they could, you know, do their homework together over, you know, zoom, whatever that the technology they used or, or teams. 1 (23m 36s): And then, you know, he could game and have, be social with his for a few good years. My son didn't go out and be with his friends in person. They would be friends online. And today he's all of a sudden choosing to go out more and meet his buddies in person. And we think that, you know, it's wonderful. So he hasn't lost anything. He's just kept it alive, but online. So I've changed my mind a bit. We used to be super strict and I've, and I've just, I think I've just changed my mind when it comes to, I think you have to, you have to decide for your kids how it's working for them. 1 (24m 18s): And what I've seen with my kids and my daughter, she's not really into social media at all. So she talks a lot with her, her girlfriends on the phone and they sort of FaceTime each other and I think that's fine and they just, they seem to be, it's just working itself out naturally. I also think that in general, it's really it. I don't think we can say that social media is bad and that we shouldn't be doing it and we should ban TikTok and, and platforms. They are important sources of information in a day where we know that our mass media is not the watchdog that we need them to be. 1 (25m 4s): So it's a place where you can actually get different sources of information. And so I think social media is important for, for that, for that purpose. I also think that social media is what we make of it. So as you said, you know, you, you meet online to have a buddy that you can just sit with and have a drink with or as a group. For me, my, I have different groups that I meet on a regular basis on, on Zoom, you know, we live in different countries, different time zones, and I love it. It's so important. What I do, what I will say is that it's important to unfollow people and influencers that make you feel bad about yourself. 1 (25m 45s): It's like, don't do that, don't do that. Just unfollow them. You don't need to follow people that make you feel like you're ugly or too fat or you know, whatever. There's so many inspirational, there's people, there's so much good content out there and people do Instagram lives all the time. And there you actually have the possibility to speak with and and, and engage and ask questions live directly. I think social media is actually a wonderful thing. So I am, I'm actually all for it now. I do think that you need to see with your own kids and kind of decide how it depends on their personality. 1 (26m 28s): Like, my kids are so different. I don't know about your kids, but my two are like, they could not be more different. My, my son is like someone who gets addicted to like gaming my daughter. Not at all. So with her, we never have to worry. 0 (26m 42s): Yeah, they're very, mine are very different too. I it's so incredible. 'cause you're like, how are you two related? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's amazing. I wanted to circle back to the depression statistic or projection that you had mentioned. What is your, what's your take on SSRIs and medication when it comes to that? 1 (27m 6s): Ooh, it's a tricky, be 0 (27m 7s): As provocative as you 1 (27m 8s): Want. I'm definitely not qualified, right? To talk about medication. I'm not a, I'm not a doctor. I am in general not for them. I think we are depressed because we're disconnected a lot of the time. I think we are depressed because we don't get our need for connection met. And because we are in survival mode, so much of the time research now shows that most of us are in survival mode in fight or flight 70% or more of, of the time, which is huge. And I don't think we really understand the implications because what happens when we feel lonely is that our, our brain believes we're in danger. 1 (27m 53s): So we're flooded by these stress chemicals, these hormones. And then a big part of the brain actually shuts down. So the frontal lobe part of the brain, which is the thinking part of the brain, the CEO, the, the, the part of, of, of our brain that we can make long-term decisions, we can pull back and get perspective. All of that is just gone. And also it's not, you know, survival mode is not a time to create, it's not a time to connect. It's not a time for for, for trying to understand how the other person is feeling. And so, so what we, what we do that, what our brain does is that scan for potential threats, isolate, go into tunnel vision mode. 1 (28m 37s): And so of course everyone who disagrees with our opinion is a threat. So that's why we get this polarization. You know, we, we, we, we can't even sit down and have a conversation. It used to be that we could be friends and completely disagree whether we voted Republican or, or democrat, it didn't really matter. We could still sit at the same table and be friends. It seems to me like we can't do that anymore. And that is because we're all into in this fight or flight mode. So, and that makes us, when we are on and that makes, makes us lonely and that makes us depressed. So I think before medicating ourselves, I always try to, okay, let's see if there's something we can do before that. 1 (29m 24s): And I mean, I work with high achievers, people who are seemingly, you know, successful people, leaders, executives, and they're also dealing with disconnection, loneliness. A lot of the times they, they don't know that they're lonely 'cause they are surrounded by people. They don't really realize what they're dealing with, but they're dealing with disconnection. They feel, they feel like they can't, like, they can't even think straight and they feel just generally dissatisfied and empty. And a lot of that is not, it's not gonna help you to take medication. Yeah. You, you know, you might feel it's kind of like dulls out, but it's like any addiction, you can, you can, you can eat food, you can eat chocolate, you can drink alcohol, you can do all sorts of things to alleviate that discomfort of disconnection for short while, but it's not gonna, it's not gonna change anything. 1 (30m 21s): So when you're off of that medication or whatever you're addicted to, then you're gonna feel, feel just as bad or probably even worse 'cause nothing helped. So I think dealing with that disconnection and it's not a quick fix. That's the, that's the thing. You have to, I think people have to realize that reconnecting again with our own self is not a one and done. It's something that I do as a daily practice. Every single day I get up and I have my, my morning practice and I journal and I meditate and I decide, okay. And I, and I really, and that's what I journal about. Like, how am I doing today? Like really, like, what's going on? 1 (31m 2s): Like what are the feelings? And I think a a lot of the talk today is about our, our our our thoughts, you know, how you think is important, all of that. And we talk about mindset a lot, but what, what's missing from that equation? And I agree, mindset is important, but our heart is important too. It's not just a psychology, it's how we're doing like our emotionality. And also part of connection is our connection with our spiritual self, with something like believing in something that is bigger than ourselves and knowing that we're not alone. 1 (31m 43s): We can actually lean on and trust and, and spirituality doesn't have to mean anything religious. It's really about that connection that you have with yourself and, and feeling that we are connected on some level deeply as energetic beings, right? So we need all of those in addition to also our physical health. So connection is really the, the psychology, the emotionality, physicality, and also spiritual connection. So I think we, we just need all of those and when we have all of those, and it doesn't have to, doesn't have to be perfect all the time. 1 (32m 27s): It certainly never is 'cause for human beings. And, but when we are working on these things, a lot of the people that I work with, they can go off the medication or they never have to take them. So I think it's worth making that effort and working on the real issues and at least see if that doesn't help. Yeah, by all means, talk to your doctor if this is the right thing to do. But yeah. 0 (32m 58s): Yeah, I tend to agree. There's, there was this quote I saw and it said, if your doctor isn't asking you how much water you're drinking, what you're eating, how much you're sleeping, how much you're exercising, and how much you go outside, you don't have a a doctor, you have a drug dealer. And I couldn't agree more because if you are not looking at the container before you say there's something wrong with this organism, like if, like you, you imagine yourself as a plant or anything else, well like, you have to check the soil. If you're not checking the soil and the conditions, you can't just say, oh, the plant is broken. No, the conditions are probably broken. So fix the conditions and then assess the individual. 0 (33m 41s): Yeah. So I think it's the same when it comes to depression or loneliness is like we're saying you are broken. Instead of saying like, well what are your circumstances? What does your life look like? What are you eating? What are you doing? Have you gone outside? You are like, no, I've had 17 double frappuccinos. I haven't moved from this windowless room and I've been on my phone all day. Yeah, well it's not you, it's context. Yeah. It's the context that's a problem. So let's start there. And then they've done all of these studies and one of them, which is mind blowing is saffron is something like 30 times more effective than an SS RI. Well what, what are the side effects of saffron other than like, maybe your fingers get a little bit stained from making the tea or the rice. 0 (34m 27s): So yeah, yeah. I, I am very holistic and I I like looking at things that are much safer for you and, and start there. I think it's crazy that we hit everything with the sledgehammer. Yeah. That's the first thing that we go to. And then we're like, why don't I feel better now? I just feel numb. Well look at the side effects. And I wrote down, this is, let me see if I can scroll. I wish I was a little bit more organized. Okay, so this is on the antidepressants. This is an FDA warning, like this is from the FDA and it says, some medications come with warnings about increased agitation, aggression, and suicidal thoughts, particularly in young people. 0 (35m 13s): So we have people that are suffering from this thing and now you give them this drug that is actually kind of making the things worse seemingly by their, by the FDA's own warning. So you create more aggression. Okay, that's good. And suicidal thoughts. You already have someone that feels out of place, lonely, isolated, and you're giving something that could potentially perpetuate that. Yeah, I don't 1 (35m 36s): Know. And and, and back to what you, what you, you know, you mentioned about, you know, leadership, our governments, they have the information or at least they have access to the information about the dangers of loneliness and, and all these things. And what, what I thought was mind blowing during the pandemic is that none of our leadership talked about sugar and how dangerous sugar is for our overall health. And also in making us depressed and feeling more, you know, scattered and, and and, and even can make people violent and you know, it's just, it's just, and just bad in general when it comes to our immune system. 1 (36m 18s): So that's one thing. And also, so for me, it just seems like there's, and, and the fact that nobody talks about saffron, that nobody, you know, we're, we're pushing these medications and it's just, it just shows you that our system is broken. That there are other interests that are more important than the general health and wellness and wellbeing of the population. And the fact that there's really no willingness to make us feel more connected, make us feel like we belong and we know that it's dangerous. I've written a book about lone wolf mass shooters, and all of them, all the hundreds of mass shooters I studied were dealing with loneliness. 1 (37m 3s): They didn't feel like they belonged in our society. Loneliness is, is I believe if they, if they people, these young men who became mass shooters, who shot up a school, whatever they did, if they had felt that they were part of their community, that they were accepted, that they were loved, they would not do what they did. Of course there were other factors that made them mass killers. But loneliness is a key factor. So we know that loneliness is dangerous and yet we always talk about something else. Oh, it's the fault of the social media and, and and you know, being pushed toward extremism and, and misinformation and, and guns and all these things. 1 (37m 50s): And yes, there might be something to it, but we're not talking about the real issues, the, the issues that are actually going to move the needle. So I think, and also in, in, in terms of there is, I believe an interest in keeping the population separated because as long as we are separated and we're fighting each other, we, we, we will never stand up to and actually change those systemic problems that we are faced, that we are faced with in our society today. The, the mass corruption huge, you know, big corporations basically deciding what politicians and governments are going to, to do and, and, and decide. 1 (38m 36s): It's, it's just, there's something so wrong, but we have the power to change it. We just have to not fight each other. We have to, you know, find what we have actually in common. Because when I speak to people, whether I agree with them on their political choices or whatever, it doesn't really matter. We all want the same thing. We're all human beings. We, we wanna feel seen, heard and valued. We want our families to be safe and to have enough to eat. We just wanna be able to, to do work that we love. And, and yeah, it's not that complicated. We all wanna feel safe. So I think there is a, a lack of willingness from leadership to actually do something about this. 0 (39m 24s): Yeah, there's this teal swan post that she made, and I don't know how true it is or not 'cause I, my husband was like, that's not a thing, but either way it's a really good visualization. And she says if you put black ants and red ants into a bottle, they will be fine. They'll coexist and do their ant like behavior. But if you take the bottle and then you agitate it, you shake it, all of a sudden they are aware of their differences in the black ants and the red ants will start trying to kill each other. Meanwhile, they have no idea that there was this hand that shook the bottle. So it's the same with people. And when it comes to, I guess like po like politics is the best example, right? Because it seemed like the populist movement seems to have kind of created a massive divide. 0 (40m 7s): So it's liberal versus conservative instead of seeing that there's this invisible hand that's shaking the whole thing anyways and has nothing to do with your differences. And I think that's always very important to remember. And I, I don't know, I'm, I wonder what the solution is. I don't know what it's like over there. 'cause here it feels like this year is going going to be a wild ride and it's like buckle up baby if you're in the states and how 1 (40m 32s): Much bring up the popcorn. 0 (40m 33s): Yeah, it's what, I'm a mom of two kids. I'm five two, I believe in the second amendment, but like, there's only so much I can do even with what I have in my home. Yeah. So it's like if it comes down to it, like if you need like a revolution or whatever, like what is, what am I gonna do? Yeah. You know what I mean? I'm gonna have to tuck away and hope that maybe the young people will, will create the change of what, like this and make this country remember what it was supposed to be. But I have this friend Michael Malice, and he talks a lot about national divorce over here and it's essentially how each state would be its own thing. And yeah, he explains like anarchy and I'm like, well what I can't participate in that. 0 (41m 15s): Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So at some point it does kind of feel like the ship is too big to turn. Yeah. And we're just gonna have to wait and see what happens because it is, it's like, it, it's at this point it feels like whoever has the most money is the one that's making all of the decisions. And there is no red or blue. There is something at the top top that doesn't give a shit about color because they are paying both sides. 1 (41m 37s): Yeah, that's right. That's what it feels like. And that's why it's so easy for us as individuals to give up and there's, so there's this apathy and that also makes us depressed because it, when we don't have personal power then that, you know, just, it's just this vicious cycle. And so I think we need to take our power back by knowing that we actually can do something. And you know, when you talk about, I don't know if that's, if if the teal swan, what she, what you show there if it's true or not, but the agitation, that hand that, that shakes the bottle, it's, to me that's our survival mode that messes with us because, you know, in that state we're just like, it's like two angry dogs that are just barking at each other. 1 (42m 33s): And, and so if we can each and every one of us take responsibility for our own fear and survival mode and deactivate that constantly. And for me, I have to do it every day, multiple times per day. And it's just simple by just grounding my feet on the ground and taking a few breaths, just like practice practicing that and just like noticing that I'm coming back and getting centered and grounded in myself, then I can, okay, then I can assess am am I in danger now or am I safe right now? And most of the time I'm safe right now. 1 (43m 13s): So I do not need to hide. I do not need to run or fight. So I can actually just take a breath and, and not react to something that is annoying or irritating or, or, or, yeah. Or provoking me. But I, so I think each and every one of us, we have a responsibility to do that practice and to deactivate our survival mode so that we don't get into this reactive mode that we can actually observe and then respond in a way that seems more balanced and and loving. Because we're all, everyone's struggling. 1 (43m 54s): Everyone has something. So knowing that and just feeling that you can have a little compassion for other people and what they're going through, I think that goes a long way. So I think we, even if our leadership are not capable of doing this with each other, if we can do it as people, and I don't know, maybe a solution is to dissolve, you know, the United States and maybe Europe. Europe, the European Union as well. I don't know what the best solution is, but I do know that we as people have to find a way to not fight each other and be at each other's throats all the time because we need each other and we need to figure out a way to coexist and to help each other. 1 (44m 36s): Goes back to also the kids and how hard it is to be a mom and raise kids and have careers at the same time. And not only having careers, but just living our purpose. You know, we, we having a calling and, and and, and being able to fulfill on your purpose is an important part of feeling connected because you're connected with, with something that is bigger than, than just you and your, and your personal needs. And that's really fulfilling. And so being able to do that, that takes a village because we need that village to help us with our kids, with our family, and to help each other out. 1 (45m 17s): Because if you look at, I mean, and this is so in a way easy and simple and yet it's not done. You know, we have an elderly population who feel useless because they're not, they're not valued. They're, they're useless, they're not put into work. They, there are a lot of these people who would love to look out after our kids and help our, you know, help us with our kids even if it's not our own parents, if they're not around or whatever. So I think we can use our population and just become helpful to each other in a way that is really rewarding and fulfilling to everyone. 0 (45m 57s): I agree. I think that that love and purpose are so deeply connected and I think both come back to service. Yeah. And if you are not providing in some way, like not this neo description of provide, where we equate that to money, that's bullshit, but like really truly provide, whether that's energetically, spiritually, with a nourishing meal, whatever that thing is, like something that's much more deep than money. If you're not in a place of service or provision, of course you're going to feel a lack of purpose and you're not gonna feel love and you're not gonna feel connected. But what I do notice is that some people, and this might be tied to depression specifically, but it's almost this, it's this tie between being wildly selfish and learned helplessness. 0 (46m 43s): And what I mean by selfish, it's everything is egocentric. So the mindset, going back to mindset, it's what's wrong with me? Did I do something? What do they think of me did? Right? It's me, me, me, me, me. So you go into a room and you start berating yourself, but you think that everyone is thinking about you, but you are thinking about you more than anyone else is thinking about you. Where if you have someone that's connected and grounded, it's, they're not over identified with the situation or with the outcome. So instead of saying what's wrong with me, they say, well what, what did I, what was wrong with the way I executed that? Or like, what was wrong with my, I guess like you could say protocol or whatever that, what that is. 0 (47m 27s): So you go back to your steps and you try to improve that and you're not again identified with the outcome. So I think identity is also somehow tied into there as well. So how do, how do you get to a place where you can answer the question, who am I and what, what is that supposed to look like? Because you can look at the rom dos model and that's a really hard one. I consider myself a very spiritual person. I spend a lot of time on that area of my life. And it is still very hard, even with psychedelics, it's very hard to get to the answer that I'm the observer. 'cause that's kind of where he wants you to land. Yeah. And you're like, well what does that mean? So you have these people and you ask, who am I? 0 (48m 9s): And they will say, I'm an author, I'm a mom, I'm Candace. And you're like, well no, these are all labels that have been put on you and functions. Yeah. And yes, they're important, right? Like you are having a human experience. That's not to discount that, but that's not who you are. So how do you get to the true an the true answer of that and like, not to identify with outcomes and personas. 1 (48m 34s): Yeah, exactly. Because what we value in our society today is our accomplishments, right? So we identify easily with those things that we do and the titles that we have and the positions and all that. And, and I, you know, I I love that, you know, the idea of becoming an observer. And I, and I practice that, right? But I never, I never get it really right. But I do practice it. And I noticed that when I am in fight or flight, which happens so fast without even now, now I can actually notice it more often, but I didn't, like, I didn't notice it before I go. When I go into that full stress and I'm anxious and I'm, you know, looking for, in a way I am looking for trouble. 1 (49m 21s): And in that state, because it's survival mode and our prehistoric brain is scanning for danger, we, we become selfish. It's, we can't help it. It's a, it's a biological response. So we become self-centered because the only thing that is important is to keep this body of ours safe. And so that's why we see this self-centeredness and selfishness, I believe. And so part of the practice again is to deactivate, to notice when we falter back into survival mode and then to get ourselves out of it. 1 (50m 2s): Even if it means that we have to take a break from the meeting and go for a walk or, you know, from the conversation. And when it comes to who am I, you know, I think that is the day we figure that out. It's the day we die, probably, I don't know. But what I like to do is that I ask myself every morning and I put it in my journal and I ask myself, who do I want to be today? Because, and it, 'cause it depends on the day and it depends on how I, what state I'm in. And I always try to identify who do I want to be in terms of who is my future self? 1 (50m 47s): And this is something that I learned from Benjamin Hardy, the organizational psychologist. And he talks about goals and having really impossible goals. And what that does with you and is that you then identify with the future self of yours. And because you don't have the solutions on how to get to your goals from where you are today, but if you can connect with that higher self version of yourself, your future self, someone who you may be contemplated on who you want to become, how, like how do you wanna feel? I always ask myself that Joe Dispenza talks about this as well, I love her, is to identify and, and, and try to feel how you want to feel and think how you want to, how is that person your higher self, your future self five years from now? 1 (51m 42s): How does she think, how does she feel? What solutions does, does she have? 'cause she definitely has solutions and, and strategies to get to do these things that she does that I don't have today. And so when we operate from our future selves, then we actually have a chance of becoming that. Otherwise we are, we're just repeating whatever we've been doing in the past. So I think it's, it's who we are. I think it's a becoming process and, and figuring it out and knowing that there's no one answer to that. 0 (52m 19s): I yeah, I'm, I'm glad you mentioned him. His work is incredibly powerful. I highly recommend all of his books to everybody. And he has some really good meditations as well that are heart openers and how to get to a place of gratitude because he talks about, just from a quantum level, the importance of experiencing that and embodying that and then being able to create real transmutation, like change isn't the right word. Like real powerful shift from where you are to where you want to be. And my biggest hangup, it's like in the midst of flight or f of flight or fight, it's so hard to be able to take yourself out of that and remember these practices because you're so in the thick of it. 0 (53m 4s): Yeah. And I think that's probably the whole point of meditation is that it creates a, a bigger space in that emotional state to where you can do that. Yeah. I am terrible at it. And it's like, my husband is so good and he's so, he has such a good regimen and he's always trying to remind me to, to do it. But for some reason I like this real resistance when it comes to it. But it's like, if you can get to this place where you're meditating and you, you can create that space, then in that moment you can grab onto your higher self or this vision that you have and then show up that way instead of just letting your amygdala make all of your choices for you. Yeah. And like, whoa, what a difference. Because it's like if you, if you react in a space, a space of anger and it's not truly who you are, right? 0 (53m 50s): It's like you're programming your traumas, all of these things, and then you go back and you ruminate on it and you're like, there are a thousand different ways I would've approached that if I took that emotion away. So it's like the emotion was the driving force and the thing that was making your decision for you. So if you can remove that, like what a beautiful outcome that could have been. And now I'm sitting here saying like, I should have done that. I should have done that. So you can kind of get rid of these shoulds by just removing yourself from that emotional state, I guess. Like not identifying as that emotional state. So I guess, do you, do you find that with like your breath work, that that helps do the same thing? Like you can create more pause in those moments? Yeah, 1 (54m 30s): Absolutely. And so I think that meditation, breath work, all these practices are great. I think everyone has to find what works for them. Sometimes meditation doesn't work for me and I actually have to do some physical exercise and just move around and put on some music and dance for a song. You know, that helps because really, and we can never get rid of our thoughts. I think that's an illusion that we can just have complete stillness and just be in this like nothingness. I think, at least in my opinion, I think our, our thoughts are there and it's okay. And so what I like to do is just focus on my heart, whatever I do. 1 (55m 10s): And that is a practice too, because I, my heart was so close for so many years, probably since I was a child and just, that's just life happening to us. And I think a problem today, one of the, the big problems today is that our hearts are closed. So just, and I didn't even realize until I started doing this practice more and more in the meditation and Joe Dispenza has even a free one 15 minute meditation that is so easy to do every single day to just focus on the heart and just focusing on one person that you love and just like think about that person. And for us as mothers, it's really easy. 1 (55m 50s): We can just focus on a, on a, on a child, right? So, but really anyone that you love, it works and just try to stay in that feeling and come back to that feeling. 'cause the more we practice feeling that love, the easier it is to get back to once we're in that fight or flight, that super stressful moment. Right. And I also think it's important to acknowledge that it's not just a quick fix, it's just, you know, it's not just snap yourself out of fight or flight. It's, it might take a little while and movement for me always helps going for a walk. 1 (56m 32s): It might be that I have to go for an hour and just get myself in a, in a better state. And sometimes I like to, to, to write, you know, I write a letter to someone that I'm angry with and then maybe I burn the letter, you know, something that I get it off my chest. So I think it's just different practices, but I do think it's in, it's important to take the 10 minutes or whatever time that you have. And I like to start my day like that because then I, then I'm off to a good start. And then I know that I can come back to that practice easily during my day and just remind myself, oh no, this is who I decided to be today, so I'm gonna get back to who I wanted to be today. 0 (57m 17s): No, those are all beautiful exercises, I think. I think the thing that's connecting all of them, it's like closing the circle, right? Or like completing the circle. So we will have an experience that puts us into this state or a traumatic event or whatever it is. But there's no release on the other end and back in the, out in the wild, you would have all of these resources. Like you would shake, you would run, yeah. You would do these things to close that gap. But instead we're told that we have to be stoic and hold it in and yeah, don't be emotional and Right. Like just get it together. And in not releasing that you're perpetuating the state and then you're still, your nervous system is still going crazy because even though you're hiding it on the outside, you haven't done anything. 0 (58m 0s): So I think movement is massive. There's, I, I guess it's probably old school technique, but it's the idea of like stomping and shouting and you see it on social media now and people kind of poke fun at it and you're like, oh, you spent a thousand dollars to go into the woods and scream. And some people, that's what they need. They need it to be okay and they need other people to join along, but you have to release the energy. So you don't need to go pay a thousand dollars to go do it. You could very much go do it on your own. And it, I don't think it's this woowoo new age spiritual thing. I think it's very ancient wisdom that we have forgotten. Yeah. And it's part of the grounding. So I do think that you can release that and it is very important and therapeutic for your somatic system. 0 (58m 44s): Yeah. So it's, it's both, right? Like it is crazy that people are spending so much money to go do this when you can do it by yourself. But I think we've forgotten and going back to we don't have elders and we don't have that wisdom that's being passed down to us. So we did this crazy practice. We had this, this woman come into town and she helped us with like, it was like it's sex magic and it's sounds crazy. I highly recommend people go check out that episode. But it worked and it was wild. And part of her practice was it, she calls it I think swamping, but you, it's all of these different emotional releases. So you work through Oh yeah, yeah, 1 (59m 23s): I've tried that. It's so good. 0 (59m 25s): It's amazing. Yeah. The things that it does. And you feel silly at first because you're walking around and you're like pretending to be a monkey and then you're, or whatever animal you want. 'cause she wants you to be uncomfortable being comfortable, get comfortable with the discomfort so then you can go do these other more important things like releasing the anger and the sadness and the rage and, and then transmuting that into pleasure. But it is powerful and it 100% works. So it's find the modality that works for you. But if you haven't tried just stomping or screaming, like sometimes that is all the release that you need and you're like, how can it be so simple? And it's like sometimes the most powerful things are 1 (1h 0m 2s): Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And you know, coming back to connection, we don't heal in a vacuum because we are social beings. So I love those, you know, finding those groups, even if it's on, you know, a Facebook group or whatever it is to sit together and have a drink together and just talk about things or, it's so in a way underrated in our world and because we think we have to be so productive and efficient with our time. But one of the most efficient and good things that we can do for ourselves and our creativity and our productivity is to hang out with other people and just talk about things and have a good laugh and, and you know, how often do we really do that in, in today's world, I don't do it enough. 1 (1h 0m 56s): So that's something that's on my list to do more of. 0 (1h 0m 60s): No, not enough at all. And I think especially when it comes to the marriage union and that container, I think it is so easy to fall into this kind of mundane routine and not see your person for who they are and yet not appreciate them and then kind of almost get into a slump. And you think it's either you or you think it's them, but it's definitely one of the two of you is there to blame. And I say, well, when was the last time you got together with your friends or your family or had a house full of people and you just hung out? Because it's, you get to see your person in a different light when they're around other people. 0 (1h 1m 42s): Yeah. And you don't see that they didn't clean the kitchen or that they showed up late or whatever. Like you don't see all of their flaws. You get to see them in this beautiful light. And I think that if you're in this tough place with your marriage, you have to, we focus on like fixing the other person or fixing ourself. And maybe that's not it. Like maybe it's just you guys haven't been out experiencing life together. Yeah, right. And you need to, I don't know, it's almost like you have to like fill that cup up with of with life and vibrancy. Yes. And if all you're doing are your mundane tasks and you haven't left your house, or like your tip one of two restaurants that you go to for date night, of course. Right. 0 (1h 2m 22s): Of course there's no like passion or sparker, you can't see that person with fresh eyes because you're existing in this vacuum. So then you need to kind of introduce that chaos and other people and connection to really see your other person. 1 (1h 2m 35s): Yeah. And to see them in interaction with other people and maybe the, they're funny and you know, and laughing and and and joking and you remember what you liked about them in the first place, you know? 0 (1h 2m 52s): Yeah. Or maybe like that bartender starts flirting with them and you're like, oh wait, yeah, yeah, 1 (1h 2m 57s): Yeah, 0 (1h 2m 57s): That's, yeah that's my person. And yes, he is very attractive. How did I forget that? Oh, because I'm mad about his socks on the floor. So yeah, I think like introducing, you know, yourself back out into public and connection is massive and it's so easy to forget that. 'cause again, it's like the simplest things. 1 (1h 3m 15s): Yeah, 0 (1h 3m 16s): Absolutely. Well yeah, this was awesome uni. Thank you so much for your time. Before we take off, can you just plug away where can we find you? Anything you're working on, how the listeners can support you and I'll make sure that we link everything below in the show notes for you. Yeah, 1 (1h 3m 30s): Yeah, absolutely. So easiest is to find me on social media. I'm on Instagram, LinkedIn, TikTok, Facebook. But Instagram is my favorite. So, so my, my handle is just uni turini, that's UNNI and then TU double RE double T-N-I-N-I. Sorry. And I know it's the longest and and most complicated name, but it's the only one in the, I'm the only one in the world with that name. So it's pretty easy to find me. And I also have some, I'm actually working on a book right now. I'm writing a book about human connection and I want it to be like an easy handbook kind of tools for everyone with how can you connect more easily with yourself and have more fulfilling relationships with other people. 1 (1h 4m 22s): So I'm excited about that one. And I also have a couple of free guides for people to help them either reconnect with themselves and also with other people. So just, you know, DM me on social media and I'll send them. 0 (1h 4m 39s): Awesome. Well beautiful. And thank you so much. 1 (1h 4m 42s): Thank you so much for having me Candace. 0 (1h 4m 45s): And that's it for this week's episode of chatting with Candace. If you could stay for just a moment longer and hit that like and subscribe, it helps grow the podcast and helps it become more discoverable. You can also go to Chatting with Candice dot com where you can click that link that says Buy me a coffee. All funds go directly back into the podcast. You can also sign up for our newsletter. I promise I won't spam you, but I do have a massive project that I am working on and only my subscribers will have access to it. And I'm very excited to share it with you very soon. And the last part is you can go to our Patreon and we have early access to episodes. You get to ask us questions and participate in AMAs, which is an ask me anything. 0 (1h 5m 31s): And I guess that is all of the housekeeping. So thank you very much and I'll see you next time. Bye everybody.