#120 Mike Zeller - MDMA as a Therapeutic, Rewiring your Nervous System, Unblocking Love

0 (0s): Every day should say, I don't wanna be alive. I don't wanna be a mom, I don't wanna be on earth. So many women are in their masculine and they just are effing 1 (8s): Tired. Somehow ending up in my room and with like a guy on top of me. Yeah. And I couldn't move. 0 (14s): Yes. It quote physically did not happen. Yeah. But the fear was stuck. Yeah. That was frozen. The psilocybin MD man are the greatest breakthroughs that we have in mental health. 1 (25s): It was a veteran that was having mental health issues and he went in trying to get mushrooms, like psilocybin. Yeah. And they wouldn't give him that, but they offered him maid 0 (34s): 22 veterans a day commit suicide. We denied veterans like Vietnam veterans, that they had a major issue. 1 (41s): Why aren't you helping this person with something that could save their life versus like offering like a death pod? That makes no sense to me at all. Well, good to see you this morning. 0 (53s): Good to see you, Candace. Oh 1 (54s): My gosh. I, we were just saying how I don't even know where to begin or where I wanted to take this episode. And when I was talking to Eric downstairs, he's like, well, like how are you approaching it? I was like, honestly, I just want to, like, what would I want to listen to? Like, what would I find important? And like the science and stuff is really interesting. But I think that there's like so many other podcasts that get like really technical. And what for me is intriguing is like the personal and like the deep and the intimate. And so I think that's kind of what, where I wanna go with it. But I like truly think, and this is what we said last night, or what I said last night was I had this knowing that everything happens for a reason. 1 (1m 41s): And I told, see, I'm already getting emotional. And I was like, I'm definitely gonna be crying so much in this episode. 0 (1m 47s): I'm Mike Zeller and you are watching, chatting with Candace. 1 (1m 50s): The way that we had met is I was supposed to do a medicine journey and the theme of it was love and it was supposed to be MDMA and it just would, it turned into a shit show, honestly. And it ended up with me leaving and me and my husband kind of get like getting really, really getting into it and not seeing things the same way. Like he has a really great experience at this particular location and with this facilitator I see something very different. And I chose to listen to myself. And normally I would self-doubt. Yeah. And I would say like, well maybe I'm broken and just listen to Eric, but like, begrudgingly not because like, I trust him or I want him to lead me. 1 (2m 32s): Yeah. It was just like more of a disbelief in myself. And I think if I had done my pattern, which was that I never would've met you. Yeah. And what I said last night was like, truly, I don't think anyone Ha 0 (2m 44s): Hmm. 1 (2m 46s): I don't think anyone would've like, had me have that breakthrough that you did. Yeah. Yeah. So just thank you so very much. You're 0 (2m 53s): Welcome. Yeah. I've found, you know, the first thing that you need for that type of deep sacred work. 'cause we work through like core wounds and core traumas for you both. And we got there really fast. Right. You know, first time physically meeting you both in person. The first aspect is a really deep sense of safety. And if you don't have that sense of safety, the feminine can't relax in the masculine can't relax in. And I've found for whatever reason, I often can create that sense of masculine safety that creates this container for both energies to surrender in. And, but you gotta have that. 1 (3m 33s): Yeah. Yeah. So that's an excellent point. I every facilitator has like their own vibration and like way of doing things. How would you describe the divine masculine? Because I think, I think so many people are getting it wrong. Yeah. So like, what is your definition of divine masculine? 0 (3m 55s): I don't know if I've ever fully defined it in this way, but, or like, what does it feel like or, yeah. One, one aspect, the divine masculine offers its strength and service. And so it creates this container that says, I can hold you your emotions, your fierceness, your passion does not scare me. Mm. And I can hold this container, your vulnerability, your, and it does not scare me either. So, but I can offer that tender strength. So it's, it's a juxtaposition between strength and tenderness. And, and so like, it's like this hard, not hard shell, but this strength on the outside, but also allows the heart to open up and the heart to share and the heart to express and heart to activate its higher potential. 0 (4m 43s): So like I see the divine masculine, it's not toxic masculine, it's not controlling, it's not dictating. Sometimes it will lead with strength and lead with emphasis. Like I had to lead my wife even while I've been down here visiting you guys with a few elements of strength. But it was tender strength, but it's really present too. So 1 (5m 5s): Yeah. That's kind of what I felt too. It's, it's this safety like a, like a really warm, safe place and where I can relax. Yeah. Like I don't have to be. Yeah. And I used to think, I used to think that was like hard man, right. Like a, a guy. And I'm not saying that you're not Yeah. Yeah. But like, like the guy with like tattoos, thes. Yeah. Yeah. And guns and Harley. Right. And like, that's what's gonna make me feel safe. Yeah. And then I've realized that's not what makes me feel safe either. Yeah. Right. Like it's, it's like a facade. It's not the full real thing that I need. 0 (5m 42s): Yeah. And, and the feminine needs, one of the biggest things that I had to learn, where I really screwed it up was the feminine wants to feel that emotional safety. You might, like, you felt physically safe with Eric, but you didn't feel emotionally safe until we got to that breakthrough last night. And I didn't, my wife complained for years of like, you're emotionally disconnected from your heart. You're like, she called me names and stuff. When we get in fights and say, you're so, she'd say you're kind, but you're an asshole to me sometimes. And it was because I was emotionally disconnected from my heart, which didn't create the safe space for her to be connected to me. She didn't fill her heart connection with me. 1 (6m 22s): Yeah. That makes me think, I think I shared this on a call before we, before we met in person and it was that Tucker Carlson episode with Sean Ryan and he was talking about like, it was a really good 10 minute clip, but it was, he was saying, don't marry, don't marry a girl with daddy issues, basically, because it's, it's gonna be a lot of work. And he knows all of these girls that are either in like sex work or they had, they have some kind of daddy issues and they're just really jumpy. Yeah. And I was was listening so, so in tuned. 'cause I'm like, oh, he's talking to me right now. Yeah. And I had never felt it articulated so well. The jumpiness Yeah. Where every fight is it, it's the end of the world. 1 (7m 5s): We're not meant to be together, we're gonna end up in a divorce or we're, we're, we're gonna have to like somehow figure out how to like make it work. And that was one of the biggest things as I wanted to get over was my attachment wounds. Right. Yeah. And like, I guess you would say avoidant, avoid. Yeah. Fearful. 0 (7m 20s): Fearful. Avoidant. 1 (7m 20s): Avoidant. And I apologize for the quick interruption, but if I could remind you to just hit like, and subscribe and to hang around at the end for some important information and back to the episode. So when it comes to these attachment wounds, like I guess with, how does the medicine help in rewiring or like reprogramming to get to secure attachment? 0 (7m 43s): Yeah. So, you know, core wounds are gonna cause us to, as long as those core wounds are still active and present, they're gonna cause us to be like, I was dismissive, avoidant, my wife is fearful, avoidant, you know, similar pattern. I think Eric, Eric's more anxious attachment and you, everyone can get to a secure attachment, but it's not easy. And now the medicine creates this, this radical opening. It's, I think it's arguably the most powerful opening we ever have in our known lifetime for creating a beautiful transformed change. 'cause in, in the, the research and there's a research report, Nardo 2023, August, 2023, talks about the acute subjective experience in the critical period reopening. 0 (8m 25s): So two major windows, the window we were in yesterday, that's the acute subjective window where your nervous system is basically more wide open than it's ever been before. And that's why we can do so much deep work and we can go right in and we actually hit on several of your and helped heal several of your core wounds and Erics. But when you heal those core wounds, then it's like your operating system, the metaphor I use is almost like your operating system is in your nervous system. Let's say it's got a hundred percent capacity. Well if you got 30% of capacity eaten up by like this daddy wound and this major abandonment or whatever, then you got another 10% by a boyfriend, then another 10% by losing a pet or whatever. Like all these traumas where, you know, trauma is basically emotion that got frozen in your nervous system from some, like, we had the thing come up I think when you were 15 or 17, you know, I don't remember the exact year. 0 (9m 19s): And, and so those things get frozen and the medicine creates this safe space because MD ma for example, floods your, your body with this feeling of safety. Now, initially you resisted it. 1 (9m 30s): Yes. And I wanted to ask about that too. Yeah. Because for a second I'm sitting because you ended up going over me and starting with Eric. 'cause I just couldn't Yeah. And I'm like, I can't even see anything right now. And I'm like, I'm highly sensitive to caffeine. Yeah, yeah. To cannabis. Like whatever it is. Like I'm, I need very little to do the job. So I did this thing not know like really, like what is gonna happen? Not knowing anything. And then I'm like, that's not working. Why is it not working? 0 (9m 59s): Yeah. And so your protector part, so in your psyche, like we have these different parts and dimensions of ourselves. Well your protector part initially let you see a memory that we were working on. And then I said, Nope, I'm aboard, aboard, aboard not safe. And, and would of often see with a lot of the female or a couple clients I work with where they're all like leaders and high performers, but high functioning. But until we work through the, the, the husband, the wife doesn't feel safe to open up. And so even if like I have clients that it's really the wife that hired me. And so I'm like, I gotta help you with your PTSD, let's get to you. 0 (10m 40s): And then she's like, we'll try and get to her and nope won't go. And then I'll go right to the husband right afterwards and boom, we'll work through him. And then now 'cause he's open and vulnerable and she feels his heart. And then now she's, it's like her nervous system says, okay, it's okay. I can come out and play. And that's what happened with you. And then, you know, then I made helped you guys get into that physical connection where he is holding you and grounding you because I could, I could just read that you were not not feeling safe even though you consciously you thought you were, I thought. Yeah. Yeah. And but physiologically I was like, no, she doesn't feel safe. And then he, when he put his shoulders on you, the masculine has such a gift of being able to ground the feminine if they know how to do it. 0 (11m 24s): Mm. And so, you know, when you put the shoulders on a, a man puts where the woman feels physically safe. Right. Then you just felt like your swirl, your emotions just kind of calmed down. Right. And 1 (11m 36s): Yeah. The way that you had described it, 'cause again, like I went in not like, not blind 'cause you provided a ton of information before, but blind and like a somatic sense. Yeah. 'cause I had no idea what was gonna happen to my body. And what I have been told through media and social media is that this is like a party drug. Yeah. Yeah. And it's super dangerous and that's why it's illegal and only like reckless people take it. Yeah. And that it's like very, like, it's an upper, like it gives you a ton of energy and like when you see people raving and it's this thing and they're like super sexual on it and it's a sex drug. Right. Yeah. And I take it and once it finally kicks in, like after Eric did some work, I was like, whoa, I feel like I got hit with a blow dart. 1 (12m 24s): And I told Eric today, I was like, you know, in that movie old school where Frank, the tank gets hit with the blow dart falls into the pool and then like the music starts playing. I'm like, that's kind of what happened. Yeah. And I'm like, I turned into a jellyfish and I couldn't move. I'm like, how do people dance on this? 0 (12m 38s): Yeah. 1 (12m 38s): Yeah. It's like, that's not what's happening. And then I kind of felt very out of body, which I also wasn't anticipating. So when you're like, no, that this is what happens to the feminine, especially if she is on burn, like on the edge of burnout or burning out. Yeah. And the masculine can ground. And I'm like, there's no way. And seriously, soon as I think you did it first and then Eric did it next, like put your hands on my shoulder. Yeah. Immediately I was back in my body. Yeah. And I wasn't floaty. I could feel the ground, I could feel my legs. And then the moment anyone would release, it's like right back up. And then that's when I laid down because I was like, this is a lot. Yeah. But yeah, the like, so to to deny like the polarity even within, within like the male female is so crazy to me. 1 (13m 19s): 'cause it's not, it's not about anything else. It's not about identity. It's like this thing exists beyond us on such a different level and you have to experience that. Yeah. Like, know that that is true. 0 (13m 31s): Yeah. Yeah. And, and the other thing that's really cool with MD MA is because it's an associative, so like LSD psilocybin Ayahuascas disassociative, which takes you out of your body. And when you've been through significant trauma, you know, you've had narcissistic dad and other a bunch of trauma in your past. Well what happens in trauma, especially sexual trauma too, we want to escape. Mm. And we disassociate and my wife would do the same thing. She would, her imagination was so vivid as a kid where she'd go outta body when her parents were fighting. Yeah. And, and so how do we heal? Trauma is like we gotta bring you back into the association in a safe way where nervous system doesn't get re-triggered. 0 (14m 14s): That's why like cognitive behavioral therapy does not work very well for significant higher levels of trauma. And PTSD, because it just re-triggers you, you're talking about it. And also you're locked in your head. Mm. Well the memory is stored in your body. You know, the, the body keeps the score. Well the reality is that your, your skeletal muscle cells versus red blood cells, your red blood cells live an average of 115 days. Skeletal muscle cells live an average of 15 years or 5,475 days. So everything that has happened to you for the last 15 years, your body remembers, literally remembers in it cells. And then beyond that, whatever happened before your body, also the muscle cells communicated to the new muscle cells, Hey, this happened. 0 (14m 57s): Watch out for this. This is danger. And so that's a massive thing you had to get back into your body. And then we had to move through those traumas while you were associated. But the medicine basically says, Hey, you're in a feeling of belonging and love and safety so you can handle this because you couldn't handle it under a normal, like things like rape and things like abuse and things like abandonment and you know, all the things that humans go through. Yeah. Well you can't handle it without the medicine to face or you can, but it's so much slower and so much more painful. 1 (15m 35s): Yeah. And the thing that I found really interesting with me and my experience was there were things that I never would've said were stored Yeah. Or were a big deal. Or like, I, I had like this mental resilience. So the one story I actually texted my girlfriend this morning was getting drugged at a party. Yeah. Yeah. And somehow ending up in my room and with like a guy on top of me Yeah. And I couldn't move. And she walked in and I like, I, she was like, she didn't really gimme a lot. I think she's at work. But I was like, I don't know if you knew what was about to happen or what you were doing, but like, you like, ah, you saved me. 1 (16m 21s): Yeah. And just like, thank you. And I thought like 0 (16m 28s): Yeah. 1 (16m 29s): I was like, nothing happened, so I'm fine. Hmm. And it, it wasn't Yeah. Yeah. Like I wasn't, and it, it came up and it was like my whole body was doing this huge release. Yeah. And the funny thing was we were talking about goop and it was the somatic eye practitioner you talked about 0 (16m 46s): Peter Levine. 1 (16m 46s): Peter Levine. I'm like, is that real? Because I'm watching these things and I see these bodies that are just like convulsing 0 (16m 53s): Just 1 (16m 54s): Doing these jerky movements and like tremoring. And I'm like, that's so fake. And then it starts happening to me. And I literally looked at you and Eric, I'm like, if I were watching myself right now, I would say she's faking Stop thinking about it. Stop thinking about it and just like, just be, and and I was like, I'm not judging it. And it was like, it was funny to me because I have, I have avoided or like dismissed this work and space for so long because I think so many people, the way that it's presented online, it's almost like a caricature. Yeah. Yeah. Or it's like this disco and glitters everywhere and raves and this big hats and I'm like, I don't get it. Like I just, it's not believable to me. 1 (17m 35s): And I think I was probably the biggest skeptic. Yeah. And I think my body, like my initial response was even saying that. Right. Which is why I couldn't dip into it. Yeah. And then once it happened and I was letting go, I was like, no, this is so real. Yeah. And it was the most powerful like, healing experience of my life and like when we're going through any kind of trauma or even like letting Eric ex like talk about wounds or things that I've done to him or things that have bothered him. It's this place of like, you can say anything to, to me and I love you and I'm not going anywhere and you can cry and you can rage and you can like just un like bear it all and I am here for it and I love you so much. 1 (18m 19s): And it's like really meaning that on a cellular level, like I'm not going anywhere. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm sorry it took me so long. 0 (18m 25s): Yeah. It's okay. Yeah. It's okay. Everything's happening. It's perfect time. And you know, you had a massive reset last night this factory reset and Eric did too. And you're, yeah. And then you also had a factory reset together Yeah. Of connection. And it was, and then also in your body, you know, like the, the memory of almost being raped at that party where you were drugged and all that. So Yes, it quote physically did not happen. Yeah. But the fear was stuck. Yeah. It was frozen and it will stay frozen until it gets unfrozen. And so this process that, you know, it's, it is really the combo. 0 (19m 8s): Yes. Psychedelics are using the party sense, but they have incredible benefit and that's why the FDA's fast tracked 'em through the approval process and they still have some hoops to jump through to get it fully approved. But it's, it, it is the biggest breakthrough in mental health that we've seen in our lifetime when it's coupled, especially with the therapeutic trauma-informed high level therapy outcome that we want to have to move through those massive things. 'cause you, you have that opening and how you use that opening, you have to be such a good steward of it. And so like there's also practitioners like where practitioners are emotionally disconnected, like in, in the experience that you had previously, not understanding how much you have to create safety and also respect the participants and respect their autonomy and read. 0 (19m 56s): And that guy probably is not as trauma-informed. I like lived through my wife said three time suicide survivor. So when I got into this work because of her trauma and trying to figure it out and trying to heal it. And ultimately we did get her fully curative depression. But like in your case, you guys have really recalibrated and it's gonna be beautiful to see how things unfold for you too. 1 (20m 20s): So with your story and oh man, I can't even imagine for either of you, I guess when it comes to like a depression that deep and like a wound that deep that you try to take your own life like several times and then you see this medicine or this drug that works right. When we we're seeing it in trials. Yeah. It works. And I've now experienced it and it works and it's one dose. It was one dose. Yeah. Like my biggest thing is I have like a mild headache and my jaw hurts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's it. Yeah. Right. And I sweat a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Then you have pharmacy, like pharmaceutical companies pushing these SSRIs Yeah. 1 (21m 4s): That have black box labels of violence and suicide. Yeah. Of course you have someone who's already suicidal, but that's okay. But we made this other thing. If you take this other thing, you go to jail, it doesn't make sense. Yeah. And then with that bill that's getting passed, wasn't it rejected or it was like tossed back their 0 (21m 21s): Committee? Well, yeah, it's misnomer. The committee basically gave a recommendation. Now the committee experts that were on that committee, even the FDA director in the, in the middle of the sessions. So you're referencing a committee recommendation on MDMA approved therapy therapy that they were, they're expecting to still vote on. They're still voting in August. Okay. So it wasn't the actual vote. Okay. But it was a committee recommendation. And now the appointees of the committee are not psychedelic informed. So they don't even understand the drug side. They also don't understand the FDA trials very well. Mm. So I just listened to a podcast with another neuroscientist and MD that's in the space Apollo neuroscience founder. 0 (22m 3s): And they talked about how the FDA director was even getting frustrated in the middle of the inter the committee because they were just, it was like they were in a pissing contest to figure out who could throw the most holes in the study, even though Lycos had worked hand in hand or maps had worked hand in hand with the FDA to design the study and they were throwing out objections around like the therapy side. Well, FDA's not supposed to regulate therapy. So it's just really a bogus kind of most likely set up by big pharma to delay there. It is only gonna delay, it's not gonna stop it. Okay. The approval, the approval 1 (22m 39s): You think the approval's 0 (22m 40s): Going through. I don't know if it's gonna happen in August, it's probably 50 50 mm. Versus it look like a near certainty, but, and so it just, it's a headline grabber. So now everyone's like all these, you know, scary things and it's not safe and it's like, but these big pharma drugs, like I, I had a girlfriend in, in after college who's walked home on her roommate who was on A-S-S-R-I and shot herself in the brain. Whoa. Done. Right. So that stuff happens all the time. You're just as you're odds of getting committed suicide or just as high on SSRIs, typically on most of 'em, I'm not a scientist, but I've seen data around that. 0 (23m 20s): And they can help in certain cases, but you don't wanna be on 'em long term. And most of the time, like I, I have clients that have been on like Lexapro for 15 years and why like that's not a solution. That's a bandaid. 1 (23m 35s): So do you think when people see that headline, do you feel the general consciousness is like, that's bullshit? Or do you think that there's still a lot of hesitation and like 0 (23m 46s): That Yeah, I think people that don't really understand it, no, it's total or the people that don't understand it will be like, oh, I guess it's not gonna pass. I guess it's, you know, but people that are really in the know, the neuroscientists, the therapists, the organizations I'm aware of the leaders, you know, all the biohackers also too, the people that have experienced it, they know it's, it's it's BS and it's ultimately gonna get passed. Even the FDA director, they, they, yes they are funded by big pharma 'cause all the trials goes to FDA. Right. They have to pay the FDA millions of dollars for all these trials. But the evidence is overwhelming. It's the greatest breakthrough POC suicide, MDM a are the greatest breakthroughs that we have in mental health and veterans administration is a desperate 22 veterans a day commit suicide. 0 (24m 36s): Well this, this, I think it's 70% of veterans that were in the study, if I remember correctly, about 70% they were, they had been labeled treatment resistant depression and treatment resistant P ts d meaning the other stuff wasn't working. And so maps, if I remember correctly, chose the most difficult participants to participate and 70% of 'em got full remission. So like went from no hope. You're stuck. You just have to manage and cope with your symptoms the rest of your life. This is all we got to. You're fully cured based, you know, a year later still no symptoms of depression or PTSD. 0 (25m 17s): So, and I see that with my wife. I see that with most of my clients. Essentially all my clients, we will get them to the desired outcome if they stick with the process. Sometimes it's one session, sometimes it's two or three. 1 (25m 28s): Did you see that headline? It was in Canada where it was a veteran that was having mental health issues and he went in trying to get mushrooms like psilocybin. Yeah. And it's legal up there. Yeah. And they wouldn't give him that, but they offered him maid. 0 (25m 45s): Yeah. Yeah. I I heard your interview with with the person that was Kelsey. Yeah, yeah. Kelsey. Insane. So 1 (25m 52s): When I see that, I, I feel like there is, that's not by accident in some nefarious way. It's like that's very anti-life and you have both that are at your disposal. Yeah. Then why aren't you helping this person Yeah. With something that could save their life versus like offering like a death pod that makes Yeah, exactly. No sense to me at all. Unless you don't want that population to get better because the way that we treat our vets is disgusting. Yeah. And we have the capabilities, like we're one of the most powerful nations. And so as Canada Yeah. In the world 0 (26m 25s): We have And the cost, the cost of the drugs themselves for a single treatment is like 30 or 50 bucks. 1 (26m 30s): Right. So why aren't we, it seems like there's something else. Like there's something missing. Yeah. And it to me where my mind goes because I'm often like, what is the worst thing anyone could want? Yeah. And it's like, these are really powerful people. They're powerful. They're patriotic. They're protective. So they are a threat to big government. Yeah. And they're a threat to big power. And I think it's intentional. Like we want to use you and when we're done with you, we don't want you to turn on us. Yeah. If ever there's a situation a hundred percent. So now you're disposable. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because why else we let them be homeless. And I think the number, I think the number is higher than 22. I wanna say it's in the forties a day. Oh wow. Which is crazy. There was that graph of Afghanistan, it showed like all of the wars and then the suicide and they were just leads apart from each other. 1 (27m 14s): That's not by mistake. 0 (27m 16s): No. Yeah. And it's crazy to think too, like we denied veterans like Vietnam veterans, that they had a major issue basically for years. And then finally they, with enough lobbying and organ organ organizing, they created the designation of PTSD That didn't, that didn't happen until 1983. Wow. Right. And so, and it was really because so many Vietnam veterans were showing so many just erratic difficult symptoms. They weren't coming back into a normal life and we didn't understand it. Now we understand trauma and PTSD. So I mean we've had like a hundred years worth of breakthroughs in the last 10 years. But we, we still got a lot to unpack and a lot to understand. 1 (27m 59s): So do you think like, what's the next phase? I guess it has to be like legalized for it to scale technically. Yeah. 0 (28m 6s): Yeah. Pretty much. But it's, so that will hopefully, if it doesn't happen August will hopefully happen next year. But in the meantime there's underground movements and experiences and, and it's just growing. It's mushrooming because people are desperate for change. When as more and more people like yourselves, like you just had a beautiful breakthrough, your nervous system is recalibrating than what like a lot of my clients, I don't just for safety sake, I do not dose or supply the medicine. So that protects me legally. But my clients, when they experience a breakthrough, 'cause I can sit with them, there's no law that says you can't sit with them. Well then they end up referring me four or five other friends and, 'cause everyone knows someone that's suffering with depression or PTSD or their marriage is in crisis or they're just stuck, emotionally stuck. 0 (28m 58s): And one session I can get them unlocked usually. 1 (29m 1s): Yeah. Yeah. It was wild. And again, as a self-proclaimed skeptic. Yeah. And I had a ton of reservations. It's like once I felt safe, and I think that was like, again, when we talked about the divine masculine, how important it was that it was you there is like, I didn't feel under attack at all. Yeah. Or judged. Yeah. And I just like felt held. And I think it's so important that if you're doing this, that you find someone that you like really like it's a full body Yes. With that person. Yeah. Yeah. And with you and I even just met you over the phone like FaceTime, it was like, like Yes. Immediately. Yeah. Like I just felt safe. So I think that's so important. 1 (29m 41s): And if like you want to do testing, if that makes you feel safe, like never let someone Yeah. Make you feel bad about that. Yeah. You know what I mean? And that's also what kind of happened with my other situation. And I'm like, you are gaslighting me and you are like, I have two kids, you know, there's nothing I'm going to do that is gonna put my life in jeopardy. Like even if I have to go through the rest of it, like more dull and maybe not as happy. Like Yeah. Yeah. I will do that before I risk my life. Yeah. 'cause those boys need me. And if that's a $20 test to make sure that it's clean, give me a break. You should be like, that's fine. So it's like whatever you need to do whatever protocol or testing or person do that because you safety and like feeling safe is, is the number one thing to have a good experience, I think. 1 (30m 24s): Yeah. And again, once it hit, it was like, man, I, the closest love that I had had experienced like that was with my children. I've never experienced that with Eric in my life. Yeah. Yeah. I just haven't. And it was just, again, it's like, this is like a new feeling. Yeah. It's a new state. 0 (30m 42s): Well, and what's cool for you guys is it, it was there the whole time. Mm. But you know, your body didn't feel physiologically safe to let it in. And he was also felt unsafe to, you know, extend that love fully and be that heart open because he's like, is she gonna run? Yeah. Is she gonna abandon me? And because he had his abandonment wounds. Right. And so, 'cause I could see, like at the beginning, you gotta sit on almost opposite ends of the couch. And I was like, oh, there's something in there, in here. What am I gonna do here? Okay. And then like when he got up to use the restroom, then he said, even further away I was like, okay. And then, and I was like, I'm not gonna ask them to sit closer together, but I'm gonna see there something happened. 0 (31m 26s): Yeah. And then after that you guys were just all over each other and, and, and the affection, like, because he felt you literally see him feel so much safer with also loving you and extending his love. 'cause he is like, I'm not gonna be abandoned. And, and the, for his attachment style, if if he feels unsafe then he's gonna withdraw. And then if you don't feel safe, you're not gonna invite 'em in. And you gotta control things. Yeah. You gotta be in your masculine is a is which is not great feeling. And you get tired. Yeah. So many women are in their masculine and they just are effing tired. A lot of probably 60% of my women clients are really exhausted. 0 (32m 8s): And they are, they're also, their life patterns looks a little bit more like masculine. They're burning out, they're grinding instead of receiving and flow. And if you're on the edge of burnout, like a lot of my feminine client or female clients, when the medicine kicks in, it's almost like they want to take a nap. 1 (32m 26s): Yeah. 0 (32m 27s): And, and I think you had a little bit of that too. Yeah. Blow dart. Yeah. 1 (32m 31s): Just a blow dart. And I'm like, again, how is this an upper, this is, 0 (32m 34s): That's 1 (32m 35s): Not my experience. And it's like, is there just so much happening that I need to work on that I that's not available to me. Yeah. Or I don't know. 0 (32m 46s): Well, so if I look at the communication channel, so it's like heart, body, mind and spirit. Well, we open up your, your body to connect and your heart to connect a lot more. 'cause you've been so in your mind and Eric, so in his mind too, which is predominantly western culture where like in, in get in your head, you know, we're in our head all the time, but get in your head and you're dead. And so then your body finally had a chance to speak and basically say, I'm tired and I want, I need to surrender in and I need to let go. And you were out and you even kind of wrestled with it throughout the evening. And like your conscious mind was trying to control again. And we had to invite you back into your body and back into your body. But that just means your life patterns are leading to burnout and you can re and they, you were probably on a masculine train track and how you were working or, or you just went through. 0 (33m 35s): Maybe it's sometimes, I don't know. Do you feel like you've just never had a period to regroup and restore your energy after children work, family life, whatever? 1 (33m 47s): Yeah. I feel like I've always guilted myself even when I took some time off work. Yeah. I never, even though I wasn't working, I was berating myself for not working. Yeah, yeah. So it wasn't the same as recuperating a hundred percent or being still or present. 0 (34m 2s): Yeah. So it's not real time off. Right. Yeah. So I read a book, powerful Engagement, and it's from sports psychologists. And they talked about a lot about the four energy quadrants, quadrants, emotional, mental, physical and spiritual foundation of it's physical. And they talked about Olympic athletes and then coach a lot of like pro tennis players and Olympic athletes, pro athletes, corporate execs. And they talk about how we gotta do, we exert really well, but it's two, two rhythms exert and then renew. Exert and renew. But American cul culture, it's like exert. And then how do I exert more? Yeah. How do I get more done in less time? How to work harder, longer, faster instead of, oh, I need to restore. 0 (34m 45s): But if you look at Tom Brady, why do he play in DE's 44 and win a Super Bowl in his forties? He had such a deep renewal pattern. LeBron James, how many hours of sleep does he take a day? 10 hours. Eight to 10 hours. Usually. He has such a deep rest restoration plan. But us in western culture, it's just all exertion. And so like for you and like what I do with a lot of my clients, then I would, we're gonna, I work on recalibrating the, the energy and then usually two to four weeks, I, I have one client, she just got a massive breakthrough in her career. We, we did our first session in end of April. She almost fell asleep in the first 30 minutes. 0 (35m 27s): I'm like, you didn't pay me all this money and fly me to Washington DC to fall asleep. I was like, oh, what am I gonna do? And that's the first time I had a client like basically falling asleep on me. Mm. Right. As the medicine was kicking in. I was was like, crap. And she is 42, very successful. And I was like, all right, let's go outside in the sun. And then I was like, her name's Yaz. I was like, ya, you're really exhausted, aren't you? And you've been running? And she's like, yeah, I've been just running. And she was on the edge of a nervous breakdown. Wow. And then now, and then I had her recalibrate afterwards. I was like, now you gotta start listening to your body because your body's telling you she also has autoimmune disease and other things. And I was like, you, we've got to recalibrate you. 0 (36m 10s): And and two weeks later she sends me a text. She's like, Mike, am I reverse aging? I feel freaking amazing. And it was, we had, I got arre, we started focused on rest and supplementation, NADA bunch of other things and got her right back. And now she, she just had two huge breakthroughs. I won't share other details to protect her identity, but it was massive. 1 (36m 33s): Wow. 0 (36m 34s): Yeah. And then one other thing I should mention for you is feminine. Yes. You are about three times more likely to get an autoimmune disease. 1 (36m 41s): I already have one. Oh. So that's, I was gonna ask, did hers is, does she still have it or is it improving? 0 (36m 49s): Or It's improving for sure. Yeah. And it can improve What's, if I may ask? 1 (36m 53s): Yeah. Yeah. I'm open book. So I got diagnosed with Graves disease in my early twenties and I almost died from it. Wow. 'cause no one knew what it was. I get diagnosed, I get put on medicine and this is like western meds for you. I get put on this medicine, I gain so much weight. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I'm yelling at my doctor. My doctor fires me because I'm like, you're putting me on the wrong medicine and I'm, I'm just blowing up. Yeah. Yeah. So I get fired. I find a new doctor, he puts me on a different medicine, but I've been on this medicine, or I was on the medicine for like 10 years and they didn't wanna taper me off or like see what was going on. So I felt low and I kept telling 'em like, I, I don't feel hyper anymore. 1 (37m 33s): Like I feel low. Like I feel like it's not enough. I can't, I can't really lose weight. They're like, you're, you're in the normal, normal range. I'm like, that doesn't 0 (37m 41s): Fucking mean anything. Anything. Yeah. It's not healthy. Right. That's, 1 (37m 43s): It's not optimal. Everyone's so different. So I decide to listen to myself. I'm like, I'm just gonna stop taking the medicine and see what happens. I cold Turkey go and this is not advised. Yeah. Yeah. Because you can go into like thyroid storm Yeah. If it's bad. But I, for me, that's what I wanted to do. So I did it and I think it was like months and I'm like, I feel really good. I started to lose a little bit of weight and I go in for a checkup and he is like, oh, so you're still doing the five milligrams, blah, blah, blah. I was like, no, I don't take anything. And he's like, what? And he's like, started panicking. He's like, we need go do labs. You could do a thyroid storm. And he was like really worried for me. Yeah. Yeah. And it was still in nor normal range. Yeah. And I'm like, I still feel like it's a little low. So then I hire another specialist and she's like, oh yeah, let's take a look. 1 (38m 25s): And now I'm way low. Basically I have no thyroid at all. Yeah. And my antibodies are still high. So in a weird way I feel like I got rid of the hyper part. Yeah. Yeah. But now I'm hypo. Yeah. But I still have antibodies. So I'm wondering, I'm wondering if this will make, make my markers go down that like my body attacking itself. Yeah. 0 (38m 46s): Or so you're 226% more likely to get an autoimmune disease if you have stored trauma. And PSD that has not been dealt with, I can't remember the exact link in the study, but chance are your nervous system will recalibrate and people do start mysteriously healing because it's hard to prove the exact cause of most autoimmune diseases. But trauma is definitely a link for the majority of them, for a high percentage of 'em. So I would say your nervous system will start recalibrating, your body will start to heal itself and knows how to heal itself. And then will get back and equal. Like why is it attacking itself? Yeah. 'cause it's in pain. Yeah. It's in suffering. 0 (39m 27s): And it has, it's remembering something that was really hard that it hates. Right. Or it has self-loathing or self-judgment or self-hate. I, I would add another thing probably for you to add is really do some heavy NAD optimization. Okay. 'cause it's NAD is, you know, it's involved in 500 plus metabolic processes, almost everything our body does, all cellular processes almost use NAD. And if you, as we age, we naturally get depleted. But if you've already been through some autoimmune and you're suffering from any level of fatigue, you probably have an NAD deficiency. 1 (40m 3s): So do you like taking NAD at a specific time of day or with, or without me almost. 0 (40m 7s): I take it twice a day in the morning and then mid-afternoon. Okay. And I, and you don't want, I, I do the powder and it's an NMN blend with some, it is from finity, but that blend is really, really effective. It's probably the most effective one on the market. IV drips help on the, on the plasma level, but not on the cellular. The inside of the cellular nuclei and the nuclei is more important for aging and disease prevention. 1 (40m 35s): Oh wow. I would've guessed the opposite because of just the price. Yeah. And I'm one of those suckers. I'm like, if it's more expensive, that's definitely the better thing. And I did the IV a couple, yeah. I guess two years ago. And it was like an elephant on my chest. 0 (40m 48s): Oh. Oh yeah. That's intense. It 1 (40m 49s): Was really hard to get through. 0 (40m 50s): Yeah. I had an IV clinic and Oh, did you? And that's part of, I discovered it because it was really powerful for addiction but also for depression. And so that And ideas. Yeah. Yeah. Oh wow. So like if you think your brain is 3% of your body weight, but uses 25 to 30% of your body's energy. Well, NAD is the primary fuel source for your cellular, all cellular activity. So if you're deficient in NAD, naturally your brain is not gonna be functioning right. You're gonna have brain fog, you're tired, you're also gonna be more likely to get Parkinson's as you age. All those things. Well if you boost your n like my NAD levels now are the equivalent of a healthy 12-year-old. Geez. And, and so it feels great. And I've like played more basketball than I did in my thirties. 0 (41m 32s): And I'm 45 and I feel younger. My, I'm sharp. I can go all day. Like I don't get tired. Like I used to get tired at five or six o'clock at night. Like I wasn't tired at midnight last night. And I feel good. Yeah. Yeah. 1 (41m 47s): Geez. One of the things I wanted to circle back with, so with men specifically and doing MDMA therapy, do you find a pattern or like a common thread when it comes to like a resistance to expressing vulnerability to the feminine? 0 (42m 5s): A hundred percent. Yeah. And I'm glad you brought that up. So my wife and like a lot of wives complained that I was not emotionally available and connected. I'm like, what the hell? I don't know how to do that. I had no wiring for that. I couldn't get there. And she was like a walking heart and I was like a walking mind. So you can imagine there's a little disconnect. And I was kind, I was loving, but I just did not even know. And I physiologically did not understand how to connect with her emotionally the way she wanted. But MD MDMA, because it's an empathogen, it floods you with a sense of empathy. It's literally like, it creates this new neuro pathway of empathy that I never had before. 0 (42m 47s): And I can remember after the first time I did it, I was rocking my daughter to sleep. I usually rock. And she was about 18 months old at the time and I was rocking her and I just started tearing up. I just felt so emotionally connected and so loving to her. And, and it was like three days after the session and I was like, wow, okay. And then my wife and I could connect, at least for now, eventually my afterglow kind of wore off. But now I've done it enough that that pathway is there without the medicine. Like I was tearing up with you guys as you were tearing up last night, you know, and, and I can get there and like I'll rock my daughter's sleep, you know, pray once a week where I'll just tear up. 0 (43m 30s): I just feel so, so much love. And my daughter now runs to me in a way she never ran to me when I would come home or whatever. 'cause she feels emotionally safe and connected to me. And I'm empathetic. But it, I, for men that struggle with getting that emotional connection, we, and it's harder for us as men, we're not wired that way as, as deeply, like one research study found that average 7-year-old daughter has a more emotionally re rich vocabulary than her dad 7-year-old. And so I got like four years. I'm average. I'm, I'm above average. But you know, because my 3-year-old is, she's full of expression. But you know, if I wanna be emotionally connected, my wife wanted it to, I mean our marriage was on the rocks many different times 'cause of that. 0 (44m 18s): I mean that was one of the factors. And now like we're better than ever. She fills more love and more heart connection and I'm able to empathize and I have that pathway. And I would say before it was a gravel road from my heart to my head. And now it's like a four lane highway and I couldn't even got there without the medicine. 1 (44m 36s): So what would you say to men that say women don't actually want to see vulnerability or let alone a man cry? Because the minute that they show anything that she'll see, see it as weakness and leave. 0 (44m 49s): Yeah, I I'd say sometimes that is true that women will say that. And then like my wife, when I started being more emotionally vulnerable, she then would say a couple weeks later, no, I don't wanna say anything 'cause then you'll be like a pussy and cry. 1 (45m 5s): Oh no. 0 (45m 6s): And, and so that was, but she was also re-learning to re-pattern her nervous system. And, and then I'm also learning what type of vulner what vulnerability really means. It doesn't mean being a moppy mess necessarily, but it means being emotionally safe and connected to my wife. So I thought it, you know, women might say they want, what they really want is they wanna feel emotionally safe. So they don't necessarily want us to unravel before them because we, they might not feel safe if we unravel. And so we still need an outlet to unravel. Right. Whether that's another, you know, coach a therapist, another buddy wise mentor, whatever you need someone sometimes be, be able to unravel and I can, I can unravel with my wife to some extent with certain things, but I can't do everything. 0 (46m 3s): You know, she doesn't really want me to unravel like she unravels, she needs me to hold space for anything and everything. And she has her girlfriends for that too, and her sister. But I, I've found, at least in my work, that the women, when they, they say that they just want the emotional connection. That's really what they want. 'cause if Eric is a soppy mess for like weeks, you're like, you are now you have to shift in the masculine. Masculine. Yeah. Yeah. So, and men, we don't really wanna be a soppy mess anyhow. That's not, not as natural for us. Yeah. 1 (46m 38s): I think in general. Yeah. And I think that there's a difference too between like wallowing Yeah. Yeah. And not letting the emotion pass through you versus just one honest expression. And I've had men in the comment section say that they took advice and they were vulnerable. Yeah. And they cried for the first time in front of their girlfriend and now it's their ex-girlfriend. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's, it's gotta probably be a balance for a man. I know it's gonna be different than for a woman. Like you can't bear all of it all of the time. Yeah. So being selective with it. But I would also have the counterpoint that if she's so scared of seeing you Yeah. Then that's not your fault. Yeah. Correct. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. She, 0 (47m 17s): It's like my wife had to heal and re-pattern some ideology around what authentic masculinity looked like for her. 'cause she grew up in a very, you know, toxic masculine environment. So a hundred percent. And, and now we have that, but I'm, yeah, I I would say men, it's scary to emotionally unwind and cry, but, and that's not even necessarily the, the ultimate bar barometer of like emotional vulnerability. Right. Do you cry? Yeah. But a lot of men I've worked with have haven't cried in 20 years too. And then finally they open up and release too. 1 (47m 54s): Yeah. Yeah. So it's, I yeah. I think too, like being intentional with your partner and sometimes realizing it's not the partner for you Yeah. Or working together to the, where you're both operating at a higher level. So neither of you are scared. 0 (48m 7s): Yeah. And ultimately too, I see a lot of men where we need to be able to learn how to process our emotion instead of bury and suppressing it. And, and when we bury and suppress it, then it often comes back out as anger. Mm. And that also doesn't make you feel safe. And like one of my clients right now, he's controlling his anger, but I'm actually trying to get him to unlock it. And so 1 (48m 29s): Like anger management. 0 (48m 31s): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I want it out. So he is like, be a raging bear for a moment. Not with his wife, but it be a raging bear to release it. 'cause he's, it's so suppressed and so, so tightly controlled and, and that's ma making his power, that's robbing him of his power. When you're control your emotion, you know, the Bible says guard your hart for his wellspring of life. You know, Jesus and other spiritual leaders talked about you gotta love with all of your heart, all of your mind, all of your soul, all of your body. Like every aspect of you needs to be involved. But if a major chunk of it is cut off, well your heart is like the source of creativity, the source of inspiration, the source of your magnetism. 0 (49m 18s): You know, the HeartMath Institute is found that the heart is 65 times more electromagnetically powerful than your brain. So it sends out a stronger electromagnetic field that can extend up to eight feet. But if you're disconnected and it's like a dead zone. Mm. 1 (49m 33s): How's that measured? 0 (49m 36s): ECGs. Okay. A HeartMath institute.org. They have a lot of research on it, but it's like literally they can, if you're in heart coherence, which is where you're just connected and you're not in bitterness, not in rage, not in any of that, but you're just in this loving center state, you, your electromagnetic field actually extends out eight feet. If you're not, it's like, it's like inches. And, and so this is even kind of older technology. I don't understand it all right now. Yeah. But it, like, you can feel it when you walk in. Like, I've been to a bunch of Tony Robbins events. The dude is connected and he's present. Joe Dispenza, Oprah, Michelle Obama or Michelle Yeah. Michelle Obama. 0 (50m 18s): You know, so you, when people were in qua, like, I feel you guys are in Quance now. You you didn't start the night off in Hardcores. 1 (50m 26s): No. 0 (50m 27s): So, and you're in a glow and you've, there's this trust and this energy and rapport that happens when you're heart coherence. 1 (50m 35s): Yeah. It's, I've been, I've been like so cognizant today of like what I'm listening to. Yeah. I haven't been on my phone and even when I went to put music on when I was getting ready, I'm like, what playlist do I do? I don't wanna like take any, like anything that's gonna kind of bring me down or like lower the vibration at all. What is the protocol to like, I guess keep all the benefits for as long as possible and then be able to integrate it to where you're not like using something every other week or Yeah. Right. Like you're not relying externally to get there and like you can trust your body to get back. 0 (51m 12s): Yeah. So I really think it comes down about four or five things first. Like after the session, so back on the neuroscience side, you know, you have this acute window, acute subjective experience, which is while you're on the high, and that's three to six hours for most medicine for MDM a and psilocybin. A ketamine is 30 minutes to two hours. LSD is like eight to 10 hours. But the two weeks after up to two and a half weeks, you're in this critical period of reopening and it's basically where you're, your neuroplasticity is equivalent of a healthy, like 2-year-old, at least in terms of social learning. And, and so you're more prone to anything you do the next two and a half weeks is gonna be anchored in. 0 (51m 53s): And so you have a chance to reframe, you have neuroplasticity pressure's on, Well you can enjoy it, you're still gonna do the normal things. Right. But do like the playlist that we used where it's just a very pleasant and, and high vibe playlist. So listen to high vibe music, do breath work, meditation. So that'd be the third thing. I love sound baths. Sound baths because nerve, your nerve nervous system in particular was in such a high anxious state, unconsciously to some extent or just not feeling safe. You want to keep recalibrating it back to safety. And then I'd say that there's another exercise called a heart coherence exercise. 0 (52m 34s): I have on my YouTube channel where you just kind of connect with your heart. You put like both hands on your heart and you just breathe into your heart. It takes like two minutes And you just bring your attention and your focus to your heart. Notice what you're feeling, notice what you're experiencing, just breathe into your heart and feel your heart. We won't do the full thing, but you just feel and connect to your heart. And then you can also ground, like you might, for you guys, it would have Eric ground you on a daily basis. Mm. Just put his arms firmly on your shoulders so you don't float off but not force you into the ground. Yeah. Not like a tree post or something, but hold you connect, connect from the heart and notice what you're feeling. 0 (53m 21s): And then also minimizing the toxicity. Minimizing like exposure to difficult high stress people or situations for a 1 (53m 29s): Couple weeks. And does that go the same with books and podcasts and movies, all of that be 0 (53m 34s): Very conscientious. Exactly. Yeah. Like don't go watch, you know, game of Thrones or whatever, black Hawk down or something, you know, violent movie that would trigger your nervous system. And it can also mean minimizing, like for my wife after a session. 'cause she's a highly sensitive person and she's also on the scale of autism a little bit. So being around my daughter too much triggers her. And she loves my daughter, she's a great mom. But it literally activates her childhood trauma still. Like we've got two, two pieces of her P complex, PTSD, which is very hard to cure. We've basically got 90% of her PTSD out of her system. 0 (54m 15s): But two major triggers are like significant exposure to my daughter Will can sometimes if my daughter is difficult, we'll trigger her childhood trauma of screaming overwhelming children. Mm. So we gotta work on that. And then being late some, for some reason being late was a big deal for her as a kid. Yeah. And she was spanked really bad. I don't know. 1 (54m 33s): Oh yeah, I get that. Yeah. That's interesting. With a neurodivergency, do you notice anything different with medicine work and being neuro neurodivergent? 0 (54m 44s): Yeah, sometimes. I mean, not every medicine is safe for everybody. Right? And so I gotta understand their psychological makeup, their, their history, their mental health history. Also, if they're on any medications, we wanna go through all that. Like I asked you guys, but you want to know like, like for example, I would not give someone a disassociative if they have been traumatized or scared by disassociative experiences. Meaning like they did marijuana and it took 'em off in a wild, crazy journey. 0 (55m 24s): And they have a lot of trauma around that then. And part of the process that I use, you know, we do MD May 1st and then psilocybin afterwards because MD may already floods your body with a sense of safety. And then it makes a disassociative really powerful. And like even for you with some of the trauma that you've been through, we needed to first get you associated. And then I want to heal, release the motion, unfreeze it, move it outta your nervous system, and then allow your nervous system to recalibrate and then bring in a little bit of a cognitive disassociative that also helps you tap into spiritual connection, which you guys had last night. 1 (56m 0s): Right? Yeah. So that was only my second time doing like a bigger dose of psilocybin. And I was definitely nervous. 'cause we did, that was so cool. The body testing. Yeah. I couldn't believe it. So you would ask me a question and there was something that I would be convinced, like I know the answer. The answer is I don't want this. Yeah. Or I don't want more of this. I don't wanna do that. I'm fine with this. And my body was almost the entire time saying the opposite of what my mind was saying. Yeah. And I chose to listen to my body. 'cause that's, you know why you're here. Yeah, exactly. And I, I was trusting you in the experience and I'm so glad that I did because I was definitely nervous. But when it kicked in my first time I did it, I didn't have a wildly visual experience. 1 (56m 44s): Yeah. It was just like more in my body. Like I just kind of tremors. Yeah. And then no context to it. Like I'm like, I don't know, I'm shaking, but I'm just gonna trust that I needed this. And the time that we did it last night, I was like, Eric was actually getting kind of annoyed and then I caught myself. I'm like, no, like be here with him. Like all of this is not why you're here. Yeah. Because I was trying to share with him what I was seeing and he was getting frustrated. I'm like, okay. So I stopped. But like I saw geometrics everywhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw like C creatures in the beams and they were like playing and they were kinda like sending down these patterns. Yeah. And then towards the end of the night it was like this bright teal, like light blue language everywhere. 1 (57m 27s): Wow. And I didn't know what it was like, I'm like, I can't read this. And Eric's like, you shouldn't have said that to yourself. 'cause you would've been able to read it. And I was like, dang it, I'm such a novice. I so like maybe next time. And I was like, it, I think it again goes back down to safety and I'm like, I've allowed it to actually get in. That's right. And then I was able to see, 'cause Eric always has like these really visual experiences. Yeah. And I'd always be like, how come he goes to Harry Potter land and I'm sitting here shaking and that's all. You know what I mean? And I think it was like 0 (57m 54s): A lot. Congratulations. Great. High. You're shaking 1 (57m 56s): A lot of resistance. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it was like me, me fighting the medicine. And what's really funny is the first time that I did psilocybin, I brought one of my friends and she's very type A. Yeah. And she did a huge dose. Yeah. And she's half my size. Yeah. Nothing 0 (58m 12s): Stone. 1 (58m 12s): Like she's just sitting there eating, watching me with my eye masks. She's like, I don't. And then I'm telling her my experience. She's like, I don't understand. So it's, it's amazing how much you can fight something. 0 (58m 24s): Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. You can override a lot. Yeah. And I had another client, she's oral surgeon and grew up Japanese. She's Japanese, but she, you know, her parents never told her, I love you never said those type of things. Well, she does the medicine and she resist and resist and resist. And of course she gets a massive migraine and headache the next day. But she also, when she did surrender in and she opened up and she was so affectionate and expressive more than she'd ever been. Mm. And like my wife and I saw her like it was in a ceremony and it was like, wow, she is such a sweetheart. We could see her. Mm. But she's so type A and so controlling that when she resisted she wouldn't, nothing experienced, she didn't experience anything. 0 (59m 10s): But when she let go, she opened up in a beautiful way. So it is so much about surrendering in. 1 (59m 16s): Yeah. Yeah. Context is is massive. And then maybe like, again, not the first time 'cause it's my second time. Yeah. It's like you just need a little bit more and you need the right person there. Yeah. I think again, like having just you and Eric and like it being two men, like it just, yeah. It's like okay, I'm, I'm good. Yeah. Yeah. Like I've been let go here. Yeah. And relax. Just to reiterate to like the week, the window, like two weeks. Yeah. 0 (59m 38s): Two and a half weeks. Two 1 (59m 39s): And a half weeks. So I should probably put a calendar. Yeah, yeah. Reminder to just be like very intentional. 'cause man, that's gonna be, that's gonna be so hard. 'cause that means like zero scrolling. 0 (59m 51s): Yeah. Yeah. Because 1 (59m 52s): You don't know what you're gonna see. 0 (59m 53s): Yeah, true. Yeah. 1 (59m 54s): Yeah. Depending on your algorithm especially. Yeah. 0 (59m 57s): Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. 1 (59m 58s): But I was doing, when I was kind of like, I don't know what to do or what to listen to, I'm like, I'll just make a vision board really quick 0 (1h 0m 6s): And 1 (1h 0m 6s): Just like, just like find some stuff. And it's gonna sound probably trivial, but to me it was like this moment. Yeah. When I used to do vision boards and Eric and I used to do it together and like cutouts, it was always like things, so I'd ha and they usually work, which is the scary part. But it's, it was always things, it was like big house, fast car, big bag of money, jet, like all these things. And I think that's probably the average. And then I start doing my vision board and I'm like, huh, what do I wanna put on this? And I found myself like putting, oh my gosh, it's so good. 1 (1h 0m 46s): Like emotions, like yeah, like moments. Like if you were to like capture moments of someone's life, huh? I'm getting emotional again. Like kids, 0 (1h 0m 56s): It's okay, you can turned her into it. 1 (1h 0m 58s): Kids tumbling in the grass and like an old couple walking down the street and I'm like, that's what I want. Yeah. 0 (1h 1m 4s): A hundred percent. Like 1 (1h 1m 5s): I have everything else. You know what I mean? Like, I have, it's a different version. I have a car like, what? You want a nicer car? I have a great house. Like I want a bigger house. Like, what is that gonna do? And I, when I was looking at this stuff, I'm like, that's not, I just knew. Yeah. Like, like that's not what I want. Yeah. And then if when I listened, it's like all of these, you know, everyday moments like cooking when kids are throwing dough in the air, like that kind of stuff. Which brings you back to the question that it just popped back up. So it was how powerful it was for me to see my body answer questions for me. And using that as the barometer of truth or alignment. And it was so obvious. 'cause my, again, it was like this. 1 (1h 1m 45s): Yeah. Right. Or like tremors everywhere. It was, it was very like, it unignorable. How, how do I listen when I'm not using an amplifier like that? 0 (1h 1m 56s): So again, it's it's your, your conscious mind is really strong. Right? And you're used to listening to those loud voices in your mind. And so for you it's gonna be a little bit of practice and just testing on simple stuff. Okay. Like, like we did on the the sushi restaurant. Yeah. I was your, hey, where do you wanna eat Moss 1 (1h 2m 16s): Masa? And then I remember, and later I was like, oh, I don't know if I can trust that because Yeah. 0 (1h 2m 21s): Yeah. Because you ought a fight. 1 (1h 2m 21s): We got, we got in a fight at that restaurant. So what if that's like my known? You're like, it's been working so far, listen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, so I'm still trying to like dismiss it. 0 (1h 2m 30s): Well, and it also brings up a little bit of a, the complexity of our psyche. So Masa, you love the food and you actually do physiologically want to go back again. But you also had a bad overwhelming emotional memory of where you got in a big fight and then triggered your fearful abandonment. You're gonna be left and because Eric's upset at you and ah, you know. Well, so it is a complex memory. Mm. But but you listen and trust to your body. And it did want, like, it does want to go back there. Yeah. And I think you guys can go without fighting. Yeah. Without threatening divorce and all the things Right. That we do. But so just I'd say for you is like, all right, so what we did is we did muscle testing and I asked you a question and it's, and I think for your Yes, it was your body wanted to lean backwards, right? 0 (1h 3m 22s): Eric's was leaning forward, if I remember correctly, your no is leaning forward. So like even my wife, we've done it on like tequila, do I want some tequila? And you're like, yes I do, or no I don't. And so it could be a vacation or do I want to do this partnership, a business partnership? Do I want have this guest on? Do I want to go here for a vaca? Like my wife just did a little muscle testing on, they switched from going to LA to Miami on Friday. So she's going there with a girlfriend and visiting another girlfriend down there. And so, but your body knows. And so like, the thing that is hard for us in our rational western mind is like our intelligence is far beyond what we think. 0 (1h 4m 5s): It's actually in our nervous system, what we feel. And even in the quantum realm, I don't fully understand it all, but in the quantum realm, it's like, goes like one of my favorite examples in, in the field. Have you read the field? 1 (1h 4m 19s): We have it downstairs. I've not opened 0 (1h 4m 20s): It. So good. Mind blowing. Well, they did the study, and this is on like seven hundreds, I think it's 700 salamanders. What they would do, they'd cut up the salamanders, cut up and take its brain out, slice and dice it, ground it up, whatever do, they did a bunch of different things and they would put the salamanders brain back into the salamander and the salamander would function. And so we're gonna operate, even if they sliced it up, even if they ground it like ground beef like sausage, as long as the brain was still back in there, this salamander could go and do its thing. And it was because, and they can measure like a holographic image. And the energy back to that energetic magnetic resonance was still in. 0 (1h 5m 2s): Now that's a simpler creature than Right. What I recommend that study on humans or apes or whatever probably wouldn't work, but because the energy and the holographic energy was still in there, I don't understand it all. But in the quantum realm, you know, our vibration, when I see in the work, like my client that I mentioned in in DC who's on the edge of burnout, was we raised her energetic vibration. She just called me on Monday and we talked for the first time in a, a week or two. And she's like, Mike, you won't believe what happened. She just secured an agreement with a national government in Africa, like a massive deal that she has equity and she gets paid a very substantial amount and then she's secured another opportunity. 0 (1h 5m 45s): Like her, her career is just blown up in 45 days. Wow. But it was because her, she was in a vibration of suffering. And then we raised her vibration up to joy. And what if, what if like, like you had some suffering in your body. Eric had some suffering and some fear. Fear is a lower vibration. Have you seen the David Hawkins maps of consciousness? My wife, I noticed, like as we moved up her scale in the depression battle, she went from the lowest vibration, which a shame and guilt to anger. And she goes, I'm like, well, at least she's not depressed anymore. But she's angry about everything, the food system and guns, gun violence in America, whatever. 0 (1h 6m 26s): Angry at me. I'm like, at least she's not depressed. And then as she kept going up, then she got discouraged, then she got to neutrality and acceptance. And now she can access love and joy so much more freely. Me too. I went up in my vibration as I healed and released. I, I like to describe it as like we're dropping off bags of bricks. Like last night he dropped off some emotional bags of bricks. They even carrying Eric dropped off some. Now you're gonna feel so much lighter. Doesn't mean we got to everything we needed to. There's more, but like, I feel light as a feather now. 1 (1h 7m 1s): So how, how do you know if you or a client would need, like when they're, I guess is there a complete or complete enough? 0 (1h 7m 11s): There's yeah. Complete enough I would say we're, I, I, I had a client, Lisa, she gave me a testimonial video as well about it. She almost died in pregnancy. Whoa. And so her nervous system for 15 years, I met her at a mastermind we're in, and I met her and her husband same evening. And I put my hand on her shoulders just as a friendly, like, you know, I'm kind of physically affectionate. I put my hand on her shoulders and her, and she's a five foot one Asian lady. I was like, Lisa, your shoulders are rock hard. Like, what are you like a power lifter? What are you? She is. And she's like, no, I just had a lot of crazy shit happen in my life. 0 (1h 7m 51s): I was like, oh, okay. And so that was a signal. I was like, oh, I'm looking for clues. And I was like, Lisa, so tell me about that shit that happened. She's like, well, almost died given childbirth 15 years ago. My brother died the same year, JM and I got separated for a while during that year. And she just felt so alone, so scared, so abandoned, her nervous system got rigid and got frozen and had been locked on back to like, your amygdala can get locked in and you can just be in fight or flight or freeze mode for years or decades. And she was very frozen. Well, I was like, okay, I can help you get unstuck if you want. And so her and her husband flew up to Nashville, we did a session. 0 (1h 8m 32s): Literally by the end of the session she starts jumping around the room. I feel like a boiled carrot. I'm so loose and flexible. And I was like, yes, you, you are. And then a couple weeks later, she gets a massage from a massage therapist. One she's seen for years. He's like, Lisa, what happened to you? Your, your body's so less tense than it was. It's like I saw Magic Mike. And, and he helped me. He helped me release a lot of my trauma. And then I flew down, did a session with them at the end of May, the end of session. I was like, Lisa, because you know, I go through and ask your body what does it want to release? What's stored in there? What, what is overwhelming? 0 (1h 9m 12s): What is scary once we get your conscious mind to relax and your subconscious to speak. And I went through like two, two more memories. And, and she was good. And then I anchored her to a positive one at the end or her higher self. And this was like fun, playful Lisa. And, and I was like, Lisa, I think you're complete. I don't think we need anymore. Mm. I mean she might maybe do one a year from now as a recalibration, but I think, I think she's good. So some, some heavier cases like have one case that's gonna be three sessions. I have another, another scenario where it's another couple that that man massive amounts of abuse and they're prominent leaders in their space. 0 (1h 9m 55s): The guys the top YouTuber in the world and is on his platform. And it's probably gonna be two or three at least with them. But a lot of the clients, it's one or two and we're good. 1 (1h 10m 8s): Wow. Yeah. And even that, that seems like not a lot. No, not a lot at all. 0 (1h 10m 13s): Yeah. I mean we re we recalibrated my wife's whole nervous system in basically seven months from suicidal, not wanting to be, every day she would say, I don't wanna be alive, I don't wanna be a mom. I don't wanna be on earth almost every day and have panic attacks three to five times a week. And seven months later basically depression is fully gone. 90% of the PTSD gone and panic attacks haven't had one since. That's 1 (1h 10m 38s): So powerful. Yeah. Which makes me so, so pissed that it still hasn't been pushed through like how many lives this could save. Yeah. And not even just the, the individuals taking it, but if you consider the family and the lineage. Yeah. Right. And all of those roots, like how many lives are saving? 0 (1h 10m 57s): Oh heck yeah. The marriages. Like I, I have a lot of leaders that work with where their marriages have been on the, I had one client, Julia, she came to me, actually I met her at that same event. I met Lisa and she was in literally physically in the middle of a conversation with a divorce attorney who was in, in the group too. And she's trying to, she was separated from her husband for six, six months at that point. I was like, well Julia, I have another option for you. She flew up to Nashville early in March, we did a session. Two hours after the session she sends me a text. She's like, Mike, I just had the best conversation I've ever had with my husband. The best conversation I've ever had is alive. Period. I love that man. 0 (1h 11m 37s): I love that man. I asked him to teach me how to love, I have no idea how to love. Oh my gosh. And she let go of nine years. She said she let go of nine years of bitterness and resentment. Wow. And they've since, and then also we, she, she verbally talked through her business challenges because she was only, not only in a marriage crisis, she was in a bus. She's CEO and owner of her business. And they had some massive problems to solve. Well she talked through all of them and we kind of worked on a game plan while we were, because it's, this creates a gateway for access in your higher self. So it's not just to heal the trauma. I want to access your higher self like we did at the end last night too. So it's not a traditional pure therapy type deal. 0 (1h 12m 20s): 'cause then my background is like, I don't wanna just get you unstuck. I want you at your best. And, and as of less than three months from that session totally solved her business crisis. Like where she was like, I'm gonna lose the business to now it's fully solved. And, and it wouldn't have happened if we didn't process through the heaviness and the, because her, again, also her amygdala was locked in. So she's in fight or flight. You, you can't access the other parts of your brain if your amygdala is locked in. And most of the time, and we just also, you look at what we went through as a culture with covid and everything, our amygdalas get locked in. We need to release and the reset. 1 (1h 13m 2s): So do you think part of it, it's kind of like that Einstein theory where it's like the energy that created the problem can't solve the problem. Yeah. So you have to get to a different level of consciousness. 0 (1h 13m 12s): A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Yeah. And, and so the medicine, yes, you're not gonna be in this permanently hard open, vulnerable state. You can't, what's gonna happen is you've created a new option. It's like you're going down a highway and there's a new exit ramp and at the beginning there's only like a McDonald's and a Shell gas station. Right. But the, the exit ramp to stress and anxiety has a lot of stuff. It's got an outlet mall, it's got all the restaurants, it's got a bunch of hotels you're really familiar with that you will bypass at times the pleasure, joy, peace, exit ramp, heart connection ramp. And you'll go to the stress ramp. But now hopefully the next few days, next few weeks, you're gonna access this other ramp, this exit a lot more and you'll start building more stuff and that will become more and more familiar. 0 (1h 14m 3s): So after one session, that whole, they don't even go down the suffering ramp. So, but it just depends on which environment you put yourself back into and your life patterns. If your life patterns reinforce stress and anxiety, then we have to also un re-pattern those while we're re-patterning your nervous system. Otherwise you're just gonna go right back into stress and anxiety. So, if that makes sense. 1 (1h 14m 31s): No, it does. I think that's why this morning I was trying to be so intentional, the point where I was like, maybe I'm just gonna get ready in silence because I, I know and again, because of my reaction last night that there's like I'm behaving in a way or setting my life up in such a way that is exhausting me. Yeah. Hundred. And I need to figure out how to get rid of all of that noise Yeah. So that I can use these benefits Yeah. For the long term. 0 (1h 14m 55s): Yeah. And, and your body, you like, it's remarkable what it, the body intelligence, it wants to lead you to healing like your graves disease and thyroid, the emotional elements and wants to lead you to joy. You know, your higher self wants to lead you to that and, and you are trusting and you are doing Exactly. You're being curious and open and exploring and you're gonna get there. Mm. 1 (1h 15m 20s): I wanted to get a little bit more clarity with the body muscle testing. Yeah, yeah. So if someone's never done this before, can you walk me through how you find your Yes and your no. And then just like the protocol of asking your body. 0 (1h 15m 33s): Yeah, yeah, yeah. So a simple process for muscle testing, first I'm going to guide people to a little bit of breath work. And in this visualization after like say four rounds of the 4, 4, 4, 4, 4 seconds exhale, leave empty for four seconds, breathe into your nose for four seconds, hold four, four seconds is Andrew wild's breath method. And then that helps your nervous system kind of get back, helps you get back in your body a little bit. Not everyone can do it fully just that alone. But then a lead to a visualization where you're talking to a your conscious mind and your subconscious mind at a table you express gratitude and that's a big thing. 'cause then you want the different parts of you to see and to feel seen, acknowledged, and heard. 0 (1h 16m 19s): And, and so that's why we did that multiple times. And so those your conscious mind, we want your conscious mind to relax. So it's not gonna relax if it doesn't feel seen and appreciated. And then I also reminded verbally very intentionally with phrasing of like, let your conscious mind know that it is okay to relax. That she will still be fully present and she can come back in if needed. Which she did a couple times. But then we let her relax again and let your conscious mind subconscious mind speak. And then, and then we do the muscle test after the breath work and after the visualization and after you've made a conscious ag or unconscious agreement in your nervous system. 0 (1h 17m 2s): And then, then we ask a simple yes or no question, it has to be a yes or no question because otherwise your body gets confused. And I like to start with something easy, like what's your favorite food or favorite restaurant? Alright, would you like to eat there sometime in the next two weeks? And then see which way your body wants to lean forward. If it, if it's yes. And if your favorite restaurant is yes, you would like to eat there next two weeks and your body leans forward, then your forward is yes. Double check it. Do it once or twice. But if your body leans back on the, the thing that you know you really want, like Hey, would you like a beautiful massage in the next two weeks that someone else pays for whatever? 0 (1h 17m 41s): Yeah, great then, and that's lean back then that's your Yes. Okay. Some people have backwards is yes and some is front and then you can start going to specific questions. But the goal is to get you to listen to your body. 'cause it's a massive, it's actually more of a communication channel than your mind. In fact, also your heart communicates, I don't remember the exact data. I think it's like seven times more information to your brain than your brain communicates to your heart. So your body is also sending so much information up to your brain. But if we cut off that channel, we're cutting off a massive source of information of intuitive intelligence that is beyond our rational mind. 1 (1h 18m 24s): So your, it tends to be locked in. So if you're front then 0 (1h 18m 28s): That yeah, more than likely it's gonna be the same. And that's, there's other methodologies, but that's the best, best one 1 (1h 18m 34s): For started. So mine will probably always be back more 0 (1h 18m 36s): Than likely. Yeah. 1 (1h 18m 37s): Do you find, 'cause Eric's was forward and mine was back, is there a difference between the sexes? Do you or typically or? No, it can go 50 50. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, huh, I wonder if it's 'cause like lead follow. 0 (1h 18m 49s): Yeah. Who knows. Yeah. 1 (1h 18m 51s): Yeah, I know. Yeah. But yeah, it was really cool. I'm like, I wanna do this with a, a lot of things. Yeah. So we all have Eric, help me. 0 (1h 18m 58s): And, and one thing too for you guys as parents, the other thing that I would encourage you guys that I'm practicing and learning myself and I know you're, you're in the Gabriel mate book on it as well. But like you can help your kids, your boys develop some of that body intelligence and awareness. So, 'cause what happens is in life is if you project out 20 years, if I lead a life that is disconnected from my body, then I'm gonna get into relationships, partnerships, agreements, patterns that my body really doesn't want 'cause I've been disconnected and we've all done that. Right? But now as you, as we become more whole and more integrated, then we can pass that on to our children and also help them learn how to emotionally, self-regulate and be heart connected. 0 (1h 19m 45s): Like your, your children, you know, up to age seven, your children are in a hypnotic state, alpha wave. And so like you can be really intentional about basically programming their nervous system and, and they're still very pliable as they get older too. 1 (1h 20m 0s): So is there a way, like, do men need to be grounded, similar to women? Or is it like, what is, what is their version of grounding? Yeah. 0 (1h 20m 8s): And I would, I would label it even more masculine, feminine. 'cause there are some more feminine men. Yeah, that's true. And, and but not, not really. We like if you put your hands on Eric's shoulders, he's gonna be like, okay, he's not gonna feel anything. Right. Like, I've literally gone to a man and he's like, okay. And he just literally doesn't feel anything. And woman, I go right over to a feminine woman and, and she's like, I just felt everything calm down like you did. And, but it is important for us to be grounded in and out of her head. Like we men, we get stuck in our head. Men, women did too, but I was so I need to move into my heart. 0 (1h 20m 52s): And so that's where the heart coherence exercise is really important. That's where also cultivating, whether it's MD ma, MD ma is the easiest, most effective, most powerful fast acting. You have to do it safely and and make sure it's pure and all that. But for men, that really helps us get heart connected and grounded in our heart. But also I'd, I'd do grounding like outside too, you know, like barefoot, I did that this morning and last night I did that something too while I was working with you guys. Yeah. 1 (1h 21m 21s): I try to do that with, with my oldest, but he's going through this weird sock obsession to where he even wears them to the pool. He does not wear them in the pool. Yeah. Yeah. Thank God they're always on. And I'm like, we are grounding right now. It's a family exercise. Everyone's taking their shoes and socks off. Get in the yard. Yeah. Yeah. And now he's kind of doing it and he's loosening up on the sock thing. But I had like fight tooth and nail for that one. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, oh my gosh, this is not okay. It's gonna turn into something weird. I don't want him to do that. Yeah, I do. I wanna play with that, that body testing with them though later and like have them do that heart exercise. Yeah. And see that'll be fun. Yeah. 0 (1h 22m 1s): Yeah. And you can see, you can test on foods, you can test on trips. I mean there's so many books, whatever, anything games they wanna play, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. 1 (1h 22m 11s): Amazing. I guess before we wrap up, do you want to like plug your book? We have the genius within Yeah. Right here. Like anything at all truly. 0 (1h 22m 23s): Yeah. I mean my deepest passion right now is helping le leaders and high performers rewire their nervous system. And I use a combination of the medicines NLP, sometimes I use neurofeedback also IFS and some somatic experiences. But it's, it's really powerful. I love that. And, and you can get more info on neuro rewiring.com and have a download of 14 most powerful tools to rewire nervous system because there's a bunch of different modalities that can help accelerate, accelerate that. I have a book out, I know we didn't really cover much on it, but that's totally okay. It's genius within, so it's the most complete process ever created for finding your highest level pathway of who you really are to do what on earth you're meant to do, and to also create the most prosperity that's deeply aligned, fulfillment, prosperity, and, and joy in your work. 0 (1h 23m 18s): So take people through finding your unique abilities, your key relationships, your unique life experiences, and your values and passions. And the intersection of that is your zone of genius. So it's really powerful. I've taken hundreds of leaders through that too. But you know, that's, that's pretty much it. I'm available on all the social media channels, the Mike Zeller. I have a lot of content around on YouTube around this sort of process, how to avoid burnout, recuperate from burnout, how to wire nervous system for peak performance. And if you guys have questions, I'd love to hear from you. So, you know, I got into this because it saved our marriage and gave us our family back as my wife was deeply struggling. 0 (1h 24m 2s): I've got an article on my website and in Biohacker Magazine about this as well and a few other sites, but would love to hear from you if it resonates. 1 (1h 24m 11s): Amazing. Yeah. And I'll make sure I link everything below for everyone. And is this on Amazon? Yeah, 0 (1h 24m 15s): It's on Amazon also. You can grab a free copy@geniuswithin.com, the, I think it's genius within book.com and just pay shipping and handling. So 1 (1h 24m 25s): Yeah. Oh, amazing. Yeah, I'll link everything. And thank you so much. Oh my pleasure. This was amazing. And we, I'm sure we will do this again. Yes, 0 (1h 24m 32s): Sounds great. We would love to. 1 (1h 24m 33s): And sorry, and before you log off everyone, make sure you have hit that like and subscribe button and if you have two seconds, leave a five star review. It helps with the algorithm and I'll see you next week. Bye everybody. 0 (1h 24m 47s): I'm Mike Zeller and you can find me on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, all the channels at the Mike Zeller. And if you are passionate about Rewiring, your Nervous System, I look forward to hearing from you.