#131 The Role of Foreplay in Emotional and Physical Connection: Insights on Arousal and Satisfaction

0 (0s): Heaven forbid she likes sex, she must be stupid, right? It's like the whole dumb whore thing. 1 (5s): We have a term for this and we call it the Madonna Whore complex. 0 (9s): Women tend to store a lot of their trauma in their hips. And I wonder if that is why for a lot of women, pleasure is so hard to achieve in bed. 1 (18s): A lot of women have stuck energy in their hips and their throat. 0 (22s): So yes, they do like casual sex, but it's on the condition that it is 1 (25s): Safe. Sometimes you people feel even more safe with their casual sex partners than some people who have been married in an abusive relationship for 20 years and 0 (36s): We're being honest. Four place starts before the bedroom 1 (40s): When you skip the foreplay and you're just like, oh, can I put it in? You are missing a huge part of affectionate communication. How 0 (48s): Much time does the typical woman need to be properly aroused before penetration? Hello everyone. You are listening or watching chatting with Candace. I'm your host Candice Horbacz. Before we get into the episode, make sure you hit that like and subscribe button. A lot of you are listening and watching and you're not subscribed. It helps with the algorithm. You won't miss a thing. That way you can see all of our episodes coming up and you get a little notification. If you wanna sign up for our newsletter, you can go to chatting with candace.com. We have some really interesting stuff in the works come October. And if you wanna be in the know and have your discount codes and get exclusive invites, go to Chatting with Candice dot com and enter your email. 0 (1m 30s): I promise at pinky swear, I will not be spamming you. Lastly, if you want to support the podcast, you can go to that same website chatting with candace.com and click that little link that says Buy me a coffee that goes right back into the podcast. It helps with travel, helps with guests, helps with editing. Could not do it without you. We are gonna read off some coffees. So a big thank you to Wanda, to Richard d Wanda Again and D Win. And to Rick, thank you so much for all of those cups of coffee. Could not do this podcast without all of you. 0 (2m 10s): This week we have Dr. Tara joining the podcast. She's great. She is a a sex researcher, also a practicing clinician. She makes really fun educational content. So this is our spicy episode. We are here to answer all things spice. You can submit questions if you want a follow up here on Spotify or on YouTube, and I will try to get to those in a solo episode and maybe have Dr. Tara Tara back on to answer anything that we didn't get to. But this one is spicy. Make sure you have your ear AirPods in, EarPods in and enjoy the episode with Dr. Tara. 0 (2m 50s): There's always the protection that we have for little girls. I think that that seems to always take the forefront. And then sometimes the boys are left behind. So I don't, I've learned so much as a boy mom and then a lot of my friends are girl moms and they're, I don't know, like the conversations that a lot of people have I think are delayed. Like they should happen way sooner. And I always say, and people think I'm a little bit paranoid, but I'm like, if your kid's leaving the house and you are not watching them, they need to have that conversation about what's for, what are my body parts? What does no one else touch, right? Just safety. 1 (3m 24s): You're preaching to the choir because I am always a big advocate of speaking accurate and speaking accurately about body parts. And also teaching kids early on of like what sexuality means. And actually in research what we know for a fact is when kids know what sexuality means, they actually have delayed sexual encounters. They are more safe, they have proper healthy sexual communication because they're not ashamed. So all of those things are great. So when I have kids, which we're trying, so sending, send me some baby energy. 1 (4m 8s): Ooh, yes, yes. I would definitely be, you know, talking to my kids about sex early on and and in a very scientific matter of fact manner and not like you have a flower, like you don't have a flower, you have a vagina. 0 (4m 25s): Yeah. So, so the talking point that bringing up sexual education increases risky behavior or increases or I guess makes the onset of sexual behavior earlier is not true. 1 (4m 38s): That's not true. No. Actually what we see in research is purity culture and shame base. Sex education is the catalyst of people engaging in risky sexual behaviors. So it's, the more information you have, the less likely you're going to abuse it. It's kind of like drinking and how like kids in Europe, you know, they, their parents have them drink wine at dinner when they're like 15 and they don't go on and become alcoholics and binge drink. And you know when when you tell people you can't do something you think they won't like of course they will. And we have seen that so much and I think if anything, as parents and me not being a parent yet, I just know when I become a parent I just want to be there for my children. 1 (5m 29s): Like I want them to know they can come to me and speak about whatever. And if I start shaming them for being curious about sexuality, then they won't come to me. Right? Then they will go to other people and who knows who they're going to. 0 (5m 44s): Right? Have you heard of this phenomenon that's been happening called Sex sextortion? 1 (5m 50s): No, 0 (5m 51s): It's awful. And it ties into the conversation piece of being a safe harbor for your children to tell you anything and getting rid of shame and how danger it is to shame your kid or for them to feel unsafe like, oh, mom's gonna kill me, or Oh, dad's gonna kill me, right? So sex extortion is, it's happening all too often. These kids will go online often on something like Snapchat and they'll start talking to someone that they think is a peer. Usually it's not, it's an adult and it's a predator. And they'll gain the trust of this child and eventually get the kid to send them a photo. And then once the photo is sent, they reveal the nature of the relationship that they're actually an adult. 0 (6m 34s): And if they don't keep sending content to them that they're going to tell their friends, they're going to tell their parents, no one's going to respect you anymore. You're gonna lose your friendships. Your parents will hate you. Like all of this stuff. So if you feel already that your parents have like a lot of judgment towards this stuff, when you have a psycho that's doing this, like they're more likely to believe it versus if you are an open, safe place for them to come to, they're gonna be like, Hey, this is, this happened and I wish I didn't do it. Like help. And unfortunately a lot of these kids don't have that, so they end up taking their life because it gets so overwhelming, it's terrible, it's truly evil and terrible, but it speaks to just how much shame is just like infested in us still and how dangerous that can be. 0 (7m 21s): And I think that's why I love your content so much because you're just throwing that away like there, that doesn't belong here and there are so many different flavors and you're supposed to experience pleasure and none of this is bad, right? Like this isn't bad, sexuality is inherently human. So I love your content and it's like bubbly and it's also very educational. 1 (7m 41s): Thank you so much. I try to approach it in an edutainment way where, you know, I always think about whether or not it's going to be either educational, informative, help reduce shame, help normalize a certain topic, or it's humorous, but also like help people like desensitize like certain topics. So I'm always thinking about what the intentions are, even the ones that sounds crude or like very out there and it doesn't seem like I'm sharing any quote unquote like research findings or anything like that. I still have an intention behind it. 1 (8m 21s): It's intentionally put out there to help buffer or to help people become more comfortable with sexuality at their own level. But if I'm so out there, I think it helps them feel like, oh, I guess what I'm doing is totally normal if this lady is out here yelling, you know, cock balls and all the things, right? So I try my best to, to always use humor because I think that helps, helps people lower down their, their shield and they have, so everybody has a certain amount of shield when it comes to talking about sex. 1 (9m 2s): And so I just feel blessed that I get to do this for a living. Really, 0 (9m 7s): You, you were, you were built for it, for sure. You are, you are living your path. Do you find where, first of all, this is a question I've asked in the past and I feel like you are definitely someone that can shed some light on this. Why is it that we feel it's like mutually exclusive to be an attractive woman or a woman that behaves a certain way or dresses a certain way and then like they automatically must not be intelligent. Like we're like, if they do any of these things, especially like heaven forbid she likes sex, she must be stupid, right? Mm. It's like the whole dumb whore thing. Yeah. And it's like an immediate way to kind of cut you off at the knees and dismiss you. But I'm like, well where is this evidence? Like where did this originally stem from? 0 (9m 47s): Because why automatically if someone is like bubbly or quote promiscuous or what, we automatically say that they have low iq. 1 (9m 56s): Yes, yes. And I, I love this question and how you are presenting it is already nuanced. So the answer is nuanced but also really simple. As scholars that study sexuality, we have a term for this particular scenario and we call it the Madonna Horror Complex. And the Madonna Horror Complex explains what you just said is, you know, if you are someone who is sexually confident, enjoy sex, talks about sex, wear revealing clothing, then you must not be this, you know, pure, innocent, in interesting, intelligent person. 1 (10m 36s): If you are someone who is pure, intelligent and and a wifey material, then you will one, cover yourself to not talk about sex so loudly or proudly. And then three, you probably don't like sex that much because you're so innocent and you're, you are gatekeeper to sexuality. So with the Madonna horror complex, it comes from just historically long, long, long time ago, right? Because back in the days there are women that are like noble women and noble women always cover themselves. And noble women are, you know, seen as more intelligent than women that work in like the whore house and show themselves and are sexual and are lustful. 1 (11m 22s): So noble women are the people that learn how to play the piano and read. They learn how to read. A lot of peasant women did not read, right? So noble women were intelligent, were wifey, were people that are seen as not a part of like this sexual lustful group of women. And then the other side is of course, like peasant women that, I mean, historically speaking, men would go, you know, to different places and trigger warning, you know, there's, there's a lot of rape happened a lot in history, right? Like in, in every kind of war that happens, there's people raiding villages and towns and you know, people raping like peasant women. 1 (12m 6s): So these women are seen as more just like a thing, right? And then also there's women that are in whorehouses that are, like I said, wearing revealing clothes are lutful, are tempting, they're temptress. So even though we are in 2024, you know, hundreds of years of conditioning and how things have been is still very much instilled in a lot of people. However, I do see such a bright future for sex positivity. And I might be a little bit delusional because I live in Los Angeles and I work in Los Angeles and I work in London, big cities. 1 (12m 47s): But I'm seeing it there and I, I wanna ask you if you are seeing it too in North Carolina, because I am seeing people who speak up about sexuality, I am seeing women who are proud and unapologetic about their sexuality and their needs and their desires and what they wanna explore. So I find it very hopeful that in the next 10, 20 years it's going to become more and more and more accepted that women are sexual being. 0 (13m 18s): Yeah, I would say in North Carolina my experience is there's a lot of openness when it comes to what a woman decides she wants to do, right? So not so much judgment like there used to be, like if you had, you know, someone that was in sex work or an OnlyFans, a lot of people are pretty like, they're okay with it, very neutral. What I do see, and I don't, I wonder how true this is, like where where you work and where you live is that there's still a lot of lack of communication or even education on how to open that door of communication when it comes to sexuality within partnership. So these people could have children, they could be married for a decade and the conversations around sex are still really clunky, if at all. 0 (14m 7s): And even if they are having it, it's at a higher level where they're kind of separated from it. Like, what do you think about this? What do you think about that? But in the moment it's impossible. They're like, well how do you say what you want while you're in the middle of it and why is it so awkward? So I think that there's still a lot of struggle in that department. 1 (14m 24s): Mm. And I think you are really on point there because even in, yes, like even in big cities, I am seeing that as well. And as for my private practice, like in within my clients, I see that as well, people reaching out for help, navigating conversations about sex. And typically these are people who have been together for a long time, at least over five years, and they're not sure 'cause they have never had a, a talk about sex before and sexual expectations and frequencies and ideals and what they wanna explore and or sexual fantasies. When people say like, oh my God, I just love this person so much. We talk about everything. I always ask, have you ever talked about sexual fantasies? 1 (15m 6s): Have you ever asked them like, what are some of their sexual fantasies? Or if they ever ask you that and do you feel comfortable sharing your true fantasies? Some that are even taboo, some that are even probably unacceptable in real life. Like, are you able to say some of these things because that's, that's true acceptance right there, right? Like when someone says they know someone really well is like, do you know this part of them? Because usually sexuality is shadowed, it's in like our shadow self and, and we don't really have a lot of opportunity to let it like shine bright and let it even like lead the life that you live. For me, that that only changed five years ago, right? 1 (15m 50s): Like before that I had so much sexual sexual shame, even though I've been an educator over 13 years, you know, back in the days I was teaching sexual confidence, sexual satisfaction did not feel it. But then at some point in my career I really kind of broke down and I felt almost like ashamed of myself that I only talk the talk and I don't walk the walk. And it, it is something that is to me unacceptable because every single day that I went to school and teach this topic and try to help people in, in therapy or coaching, it just affirms to me that like I am lying to people because I don't live the life and I just teach in theory. 1 (16m 35s): So I made a huge change five years ago in my life to let actually my sexuality and my passion and my desires like lead my life. And to be honest with you, it has turned out iconically, it has turned out amazingly. And I, I have, you know, so much thankfulness for my partner who really allows me to like be who I am and is not ashamed of me, is very proud of me and, you know, proud of my work and, and all the things I talk about online or on TV or in the media. 1 (17m 15s): So I'm, I'm lucky. 0 (17m 18s): So with that big change, I think that's a huge question for a lot of women is this place of stuckness or if you find yourself in this kind, this Madonna horror conundrum, right? Like a lot of that happens whether you've been with a partner for a very long time. Motherhood is also a really big transformation where either you stop seeing yourself as a sexual being or your partner stopped seeing you as a sexual being. And then how do you reignite or regenerate that sensuality and that sexuality? Because I feel like it's, when I look at sex, I look at it like an ember and it's something that has to be constantly given oxygen. And even if it's a dull glow, it's something to work with and you can build. 0 (18m 0s): But if you let that get snuffed out starting it, it's almost like trying to start a fire with wet wood. It's feels like it's impossible. So I think for me, when I try to centralize my like day-to-day life and romanticize my life, I've, it sounds so silly, but one of the things I did is I bought a whole bunch of ceramic coffee mugs and I bought gold utensils and I did like these little things that just made me excited to participate in my day-to-day routine. So for me that was like one actionable step. But what, what did you do to get from that place where you felt like you weren't really living the lessons that you were teaching your, your students 1 (18m 40s): Also love that metaphor. I might have to use that. I'll speak to you it for sure. I'll 0 (18m 45s): Take it. Yeah, 1 (18m 47s): I, I'll definitely cite you when I use it. But I really love that metaphor because it is true, it's always within us. Like sexuality is such a huge part of who we are and whether or not you look at it from the western perspective, which is, you know, the studying of anatomy and reproductive system and sexual our sexuality as a human or looking at it from the western philosophy of like the chakras, like one of the chakras being the literally the sexuality chakras and the pubic area and the fact that also, you know, it takes two people having sex to create life. 1 (19m 32s): And of course nowadays we have IVF and all that, but it's still like you still need two parts. Like you need that part and you need the other part in order to create life. Like it, it is so important and it is always within us, even people who are asexual, right? Like it's still within us. So for me, there are three major practices that I have done and I'm still doing and is something that I teach my students and my clients when it comes to reigniting or maintaining our sexuality and sensuality. So the three things are split into the mind, the work of the mind, the work of the body, and the work of communication. 1 (20m 15s): So the work of the mind, I do that through sexual meditation. Have you ever heard of that before? 0 (20m 22s): I've, I've done like sex magic stuff, but I don't know, is this, is this different? Tell me what a sexual meditation this 1 (20m 28s): Is. I do like sex magic stuff. Magic with a K, right? Yeah, 0 (20m 32s): Yeah, 1 (20m 33s): I like that too. I manifest a lot when I orgasm, but you 0 (20m 38s): Might never waste an orgasm. 1 (20m 40s): Never, never. You know, if next time you want a promotion at work, when you come just like think about a promotion, it, it will happen. It it did for me. So same, yeah, I was like okay, I wanna, I wanna spread sex positivity in a TV show and I had orgasms and did that and boom, like here I am, second season of esco dating. So anyways, so the first work of the mind is through sexual meditation. And sexual meditation is similar to a regular meditation practice, but it focuses on either sexual thoughts, sexual feelings in the body or sensations in the body. And you can do this quietly by thinking of the last time that you had a really great sex or a really great masturbation session or thinking about a hypothetical scenario. 1 (21m 30s): It's fun. Like think, think about your maybe a celebrity crush and what it would be like for them to breathe down your neck, touch your nipples, play with your pubic area. Like what would it be like? So imagining that while meditating and doing deep breath work can really like help with the mind and help keeping sexuality within your mind. A lot of people don't think about sex. So the very first step is actually just to think about it in order to turn yourself on. If you are someone that like guided meditation, I have completely free guided sexual meditation on YouTube. I have a five minute one, a 10 minute one, one that you do solo and one that you do with your partner as a couple. 1 (22m 12s): So all of these practices, like the guided meditations, it's, it's focusing on either like sexual positive sexual affirmations or it's focusing on sensation. So helping you do body scan but like a sex version. Mm. So there's all of those things that can help you reignite the sexuality within yourself. So that's the work of the mind. Next is the work of the body. I'm a big fan of somatic practices because my whole life I have been studying sexuality and relationships and, and anatomy like from a very western scientific perspective. 1 (22m 54s): But five years ago when I embarked on my sexual empowerment journey, I actually had to dive myself into the eastern philosophies and all the things that have existed for literally thousands of years is just not as, I guess accepted in the, you know, scientific world of the west. But somatic therapy is body movement, therapy and sex, sexuality and sex is very much moving your body, right? Like when you have sex or when you masturbate is moving your body and moving energy in your body. So in terms of the work of the body, try searching for like somatic sex therapy videos and there will be kind of movements that you can follow sometimes, a lot of times it's like moving your pelvic area, massaging that area, but a lot of it is moving the pelvic area and moving your hips and maybe like touching your breasts or for men also there's also like touching your genital and behind your ear and your neck. 1 (24m 5s): There's a lot of movement practices that allow you to feel your body and that is a huge part of sexuality is feeling good about your body. 0 (24m 19s): Oh yeah. Especially for women. Yeah. 'cause there, there the idea with one of the, I guess what would you call it, theories around female sexuality, it's that the level of pleasure that they're going to be able to receive is how desirable they feel they are. Yes. Right? So we want to know and feel like we are desired and men love to to do that. So it's like if, if I don't feel sexy, if I wouldn't have sex with me, then it's going to create like a really big block in that relationship. And I'm curious with the somatic thing, what popped into my mind, especially with like all of like those undulations and circles that they tend to have you do, they say that women tend to store a lot of their trauma in their hips. 0 (25m 0s): And I wonder if that is why for a lot of women pleasure is so hard to achieve in bed is because like you have the stuck energy there. So maybe just even practicing more fluidity in that area to try to do some kind of loosening up or release that, that might make pleasure more accessible. 1 (25m 18s): 100%. Yeah. Yeah, 100%. If you study more into like the Eastern philosophy and, and energy and reiki, a lot of women have stuck energy in their hips and their throat because a lot of times they don't speak up and they withhold and they try to dim, dim their own lights or they try to people please without speaking up. There's a lot of negative energy stuck in the throat, which is related to my third aspect of evolving your sexuality is the work of communication. It is definitely a great place to start with like internally your, your mental space and your sexuality. 1 (26m 5s): So start with meditation, then go into body movement and then go into communication because you do need like that intensity and willingness to communicate from like already feeling good about yourself. It's really hard to engage in sexual communication when you don't have the confidence or the self-esteem to do it. So it's really good to work on yourself and work internally then the communication part becomes a little bit easier. Now what is the work of communication? I think the easiest things to start with is actually positive self-talk. 1 (26m 48s): And as you know, and I think a lot of people listening will know because this is kind of like a personal development podcast. So I think people have heard that our literally our brain is a super computer and when we talk negatively to ourselves, we create these neuropathways that are negative and we're, we're reinforcing negativity in our lives. That's why it's so important to almost never speak negatively about yourself. I would say don't ever speak negatively about yourself and it's okay if you accidentally have, you know, a freudian slip, right? But just know, be aware and then correct yourself. Like, you know what, no it's not that. 1 (27m 29s): It's this, you can always correct yourself. It's always a journey. I do that sometimes too. Sometimes I go, you know, like I just, I didn't do it that I didn't, I didn't do that task that well. Like I wish I did better. And then I just go like, you know what, no I did my best and it would turn out fine. So it's important to engage in positive self-talk when it comes to your sexuality. You just mentioned that a lot of people don't even find themselves desirable and that is extremely true when asked a lot of women will not rate their desirability higher than five out of 10. 0 (28m 7s): Oh yeah, 1 (28m 7s): That's low. Right? And people sometimes joke things like they'll say things like, well you know, on my normal days in my yoga pants and my glasses, maybe I feel like a three. But if I get ready and I wear a certain dress and I put my makeup on and I have my face on, then I'll feel like an eight. But it's like your babe, you and your yoga pants, glasses, hair up, whatever it is, you should still be an eight. You know, the external part has nothing to do with how you feel, whether or not you are desirable, how you feel, whether or not you're desirable should stay there. Right. 1 (28m 47s): The external factor of like physical attractiveness based on like beauty standards, that's a whole different conversation. But this is how you feel about yourself. And so, and a 0 (28m 58s): Lot of that too is, oh sorry, go ahead. 1 (28m 59s): Yeah. And so I would say everyone should be rating themselves eight and above. 0 (29m 5s): Yeah. And I think that intention is so huge. So it's like are you rushing through getting ready and are you leaving the house in a stressed place and where your nervous system isn't regulated? So of course you're not gonna feel like an eight, you're gonna feel like a three. So it has nothing to do with how you look. It, it truly is just getting yourself like intentionally locked in before you leave the house. And it's so funny because I think a lot of times it's like one of these things Bill Ma calls them zombie lies. And a zombie lies is when you say something that might have been true, but it's kind of no longer true or it's dying. So there's this conversation or this this zombie lie that porn has created unrealistic beauty standards for women. 0 (29m 46s): That is so not true. It just, so like I find it to be, you see every kind of body there and everything is sexy and everything is interesting. You're curious. And I just hopped off the phone with this company and they make dolls like they make, you know, adult dolls, robot 1 (30m 6s): And sex robot. 0 (30m 7s): Yes. Yeah. And if you go through their menu, they have like 2000 different dolls that they have. Wow. And and all of them sell and there is every kind of body. And I was showing my husband because I'm like, this is so interesting to me because we have this idea that they all have to be blonde with big boobs and very petite, not a, a single dimple anywhere shaven. And that's not the case. Like the first time I ever saw pubic hair was actually in a piece of adult content. And I was like, oh wait, that's okay. Right? Like that's, 1 (30m 41s): I saw pubic hair too. 0 (30m 42s): Yeah. And so it's, to me it's shattering all of those things. But I mean there were dolls that had like, clearly they would've had been a mom bod, right? Like where like the belly was loose and the hips were a little bit bigger and softer and they ha like again everything and all of these dolls sell. And to me what I think is so beautiful about that, it's like if you can get to a space where you get out of your own head, you can realize that like even though you've gained weight or even though you had a baby or even though you don't look like that girl on the magazine, like you are desirable to your, you should be to yourself and you are to someone else. Like I promise, like go scroll some of these sites or some of these shops and you'll see that men find a whole array of things attractive. 0 (31m 28s): And I think some, it's usually the women that are harder on the women. It's like usually the women that are like, oh she's fat, she's gained weight. Yeah. She's let herself go look at her wrinkles. It's very rarely men in my experience. 1 (31m 40s): Yeah. It's a lot of women. And we see that in like celebrities, like tabloids, right? Like whenever there's a post like that on Instagram, there's always a lot of women like, whoa, she gained a ton of weight or like, wow she got fat. Or like, maybe you should stop eating or something like that. It is, it's so mean. And it really has no place in the world to be that mean. Like everyone is struggling with something and sometimes it's, sometimes it's body image, sometimes it's weight, sometimes it's health. Some people have a lot of hair loss and they're very insecure about their hair. There's just so many things that we're struggling with. And the best thing to go about life for me, and I'm sure for you too, 'cause I can tell that you're a very positive person, is try to only speak positively. 1 (32m 28s): And if there is any kind of criticism, like notice yourself saying it and be like, okay, like I'm gonna stop. 0 (32m 35s): Yeah. And anytime I get into a place like that, it's definitely a me thing. You know? It's never about anyone. It's me too else. And then I recognize this is not my 1 (32m 42s): Own insecurity. 0 (32m 43s): Like you, that's gross. I don't wanna do that. You know what I mean? Yeah. Then reset in some way and you just like shock the system. One thing I wanted to ask, 'cause I, it's more of like a click clippable moment. I had a podcast the other day and I was so riled up, we were talking about foreplay and this guy was like, I hate it, it's too long. Basically just get to the like just do the thing. And he's like, women need so much more time than you, like you are, you're being so selfish. And he was so enraged and like flustered that he has to do something to help start this. 0 (33m 22s): And I'm like, and if we're being honest, four place starts before the bedroom. Yeah. So if you are even just annoyed with that, whatever, however long it's taking you to get her where she needs to be. Like, you should want to do that. So how much time does the typical woman need to be properly aroused before penetration? 1 (33m 42s): At least 15 minutes. And that's, that's like concentrated foreplay. That's not like, you know, coming over and slap her butt while she like does dishes like, you know, that's cute but doesn't count. Like this is where you start kind of kissing and merging and touching and grabbing and you know, brushing the hair and all the, all the good things, all the sensations. Like at least 15 minutes. And some people think that's extremely long. I talk to someone who measures their sex sexual encounter based on number of songs and they were like, that's five songs. 1 (34m 23s): I usually do a for play for one song. And then I go, baby, can I put it in? I'm like, mm mm No. Like there will be times where some people enjoy quickies. Like I enjoy a quickie sometimes if I go on, like one thing that turns me on a lot is being in nature. 'cause I think it is something about like being outside and it's taboo and also like nature is just, it feels like so primitive. I want like a hidden quickie somewhere. And, and that's fine. Like we're not gonna be, you know, kissing and, you know, massaging in the middle of the forest for 15 minutes and is my, you know, like, is my vagina wet yet? 1 (35m 5s): Like, not necessarily because I'm not there yet physically, however mentally I wanna do it because I'm horny. And there there is a concept called arousal non concordance. And where sometimes you are mentally horny but you're physically not wet yet. And the same with men. Sometimes you're mentally horny but you're not hard yet. Or vice versa. Like you are physically hard but like mentally, ugh, I'm not there. Like I'm too tired. Or you're physically wet, but you're also not mentally there not ready. You don't feel, you feel like there is a boundary, there is a barrier. Like you don't wanna do it. So it, it's complex but at the end of the day, concentrated for a play should be at least 15 minutes. 1 (35m 48s): And that can be everything from kissing, massaging, licking, even oral, I count oral as sex. But a lot of people count oral as foreplay and that's fine. But all in all women's female bodies cannot get wet without foreplay. And so yeah, it's, it's extremely important not just about getting wet and physically being ready and engorged, but also mentally I think with sign with adequate and amount of foreplay, women feel more affect, feel more affectionate, feel more love. 1 (36m 29s): Mm. So when you skip the foreplay and you're just like, oh can I put it in? You are missing a huge part of affectionate communication and expressing love. 'cause that's how a lot of women feel the love. So yeah. Never skip foreplay. 0 (36m 48s): No, never skip it. With the non concordance, there was this study where they were tracking arousal rate with men and women and they were comparing the two and then they were showing different images and I think it ranged from like solo guy, guy, girl, girl, girl guy. And even Bonobos. Copulating. And then what, are you familiar with this study? Yeah, yeah. So like with the women, they had a lot more detectable arousal according to the study. And then I learned about non concordance and the way that I learned about it, the way what I learned was that a woman getting wet, it's not necessarily arousal, it's, it can be non concordant. 0 (37m 33s): So it's just the recogni recognition of is this sex, is this not sex, is this sex related, is this not sex related? So do you think, 'cause what the summary of the original research was, was that women tend to be a little bit more fluid. Like they're open to more sexual possibilities, which I've found true in my experience. But then I've heard other people kind of counter this research and say it didn't, it didn't accurately depict arousal. All it's saying is sex or not sex. What's, what is your opinion on that research? 1 (38m 4s): My opinion is I think that women are more fluid me too than men. And this is by just the number of, for example, like the number of bisexual women out there and women who are gender fluid and versus men versus bisexual men and men who are heteroflexible. There's a lot more women that are he heteroflexible than men. When I go to, you know, play parties or sex positive communities, I see a lot, lot more women that are flexible, that are heteroflexible than men when it comes to arousal and whether or not that study is accurately depicting it, I think that the, the more fruitful conversation is what types of behaviors, what types of things need to happen outside of sexuality for people to foster more arousal and desire in their life. 1 (39m 5s): Right? Like I love how scientists love to like get the, to the very, you know, the numbers like the, the the effect size of a study and the, you know, but to me, like when you really start talking to people and experiencing people in real life, you realize like, wow most of people's issues is outside and they cannot, they cannot not bring it to the bedroom. Like if, if a wife like that I talk to that I help is annoyed with the husband outside of sexuality, like she cannot have sex with him. You know, if she's annoyed that he doesn't help her carry groceries or if she's annoyed that he missed another deadline to pay bills or whatever, she cannot feel horny. 1 (39m 51s): There will, there will be no arousal whether or not it's physical arousal, mental arousal, whatever it is, there won't be arousal. So it's really a much more holistic conversation rather than like when people ask like how do we have a better sex life? It's like you need a better life in general. 0 (40m 9s): Yeah, 1 (40m 11s): True. You need a better romantic life in general. And a lot of people don't have great romantic life after five years of marriage or being together. 0 (40m 21s): Is that usually when you see it start to dip? 1 (40m 23s): Yeah. 0 (40m 24s): So with that, so how, well I guess I'll lead with this is an evolutionary biology thing, which I have a love hate relationship with because sometimes I'm like, this is so fascinating but my hate part comes in with, well now you know that but you have this big beautiful frontal lobe and you can make different decisions. Exactly. And that's the part no one wants to talk about. Shoot, I just lost where I was going. What was the evolutionary right before that? What was the thing that queued that teed that up for 1 (40m 53s): Arousal? Like oh life outside of sexuality. Shoot. Like you won't get arousal if life outside of sexuality. 0 (41m 2s): Oh my gosh. Oh I was gonna be so good. Maybe it'll come back to me. Okay. Oh it was an evolutionary thing. 1 (41m 9s): Mm, 0 (41m 11s): I don't know. I hope it comes back. Yeah, 1 (41m 13s): I hope it sounds back too because I, I love debating anything with evolutionary theory. I think it's fascinating. It does explain a lot of behaviors but also not in a lot of things because if you take into account like sociocultural and socio psychological movements, there are a lot of changes. Like we don't live the same as people live, you know, 5,000 years ago. So it's not always gonna be the true 0 (41m 39s): Priority. Oh I think it was, it was safety, right? So if traditionally or if you like hunter-gatherers were, the man's job was to provide a certain amount and also protection women also provided, which no one talks about 'cause we were gathering and that's a lot of calories too. But I think if you have a man who isn't showing up for you in that way, like he's not helping you with the bills or he's not helping you with the groceries or he doesn't make you feel seen or safe, that safety thing is so fundamental to women's sexuality if it's not there, it is a no fly zone to the point where they did this study and they tried to use it as an example as to why women don't like sex. 0 (42m 22s): And we certainly don't like casual sex is they went on a campus and they asked all of these young ladies, would you have sex with this random guy that's a 10? And almost all of them said no. So like, see women don't like casual sex. They're like well there's an error in this study. So they redid the study and they picked a guy that they found attractive that they knew and trusted and then immediately flipped on its head. And almost all of the women said yes. So yes they do like casual sex, but it's on the condition that it is safe. And if that safety element's not there, you're just not open for shop. So that safety looks different and modernity than it did back in the caveman era. 0 (43m 2s): So you have to ask yourself if she's really cold and distant, like how can I make her feel more seen and safe and watch her warm up? 1 (43m 11s): 100% every action is a reaction. So if she's cold and distant, there's probably something that you are doing that is also, you know, sparking that or maybe there's something within the relationship that she doesn't feel safe enough to talk about. So I think ultimately, especially what you're saying in terms of safety, I find it really interesting that people use that about casual sex because sometimes you people feel even more safe with their casual sex partners than some people who have been married in an abusive relationship for 20 years. Like time doesn't always mean something. 1 (43m 52s): Like time is just a factor. And yes, you know at least half of it is true. Like at least half of it. Like yes you do know each other better after being together five, 10 years. But at the same time it doesn't mean that the quality of the relationship and quality of sex and quality of safety is better just because you've been together for so long. Some people rate their safety so low after being together for 10 years. Why? Because you don't have the kind of communication and trust in the relationship. And yeah, when people are like, I know better. Like especially in the comments like the trolls when I'm like, oh what do you know? Like you know, you're so young, what do you know? Like I've been been with my wife for 30 years. 1 (44m 33s): I'm like, yeah is she orgasming or not? Because probably not 0 (44m 37s): Because that can be, you've been faked really well. 1 (44m 39s): Yeah, exactly. Just because you've been together like with someone for 30 years means nothing to me. 0 (44m 45s): Oh I think the other thing too, this is an evolutionary biology thing as well. They say that the reason the tipping point is tr five years typically is normally that would produce a child and if you don't have a child within that timeframe, then you automatically start to get this averse response to your partner. 'cause you're like, you would have assumed that they were sick or there was something wrong with them or they were infertile and then that would be a really big problem back in the day. So that if you don't have kids by five years in that that relationship is probably probably going to end. 1 (45m 20s): It is a very interesting theory, but at the same time I think, you know, modern life is so different. Like number one, there are people that choose not to have children and that's their prerogative. Number two, there are people who literally consider their pets as their real children as like comparable. And you can tell me how you feel about that. But as comparable to, I hate, 0 (45m 43s): Hate those 1 (45m 44s): People for fur babies, like the fur people also not, you can 0 (45m 49s): Love it to death. And I love that. I love animals. I usually more than people, but it is a different thing. It is a very different, and I would even use the word sacred thing, it's just very different. Didn't 1 (46m 0s): Like, there was like a famous designer that died and left everything to his cat. Do you remember? I think its versa. Was it Versace? I don't know. There was a, a famous, 0 (46m 11s): I think you're right. It was, I think it was, it was versa. Versa. Like Dolce or something. 1 (46m 15s): Yeah. That died and left everything to his cat. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I do. I do think though that safety means a lot because before being married to my, my current husband in my twenties, I was married before and to me that was totally, you know, a trial marriage because you know, I got into it really fast due to the fact that I was dating based on you know, checking the box like based on paper. Like you know, is he, is he kind? Yes. Is he, you know, does he have a great job? Yes. Is he tall? Yes. Is he handsome? 1 (46m 54s): Yes. Like we didn't have sexual chemistry but it was fine because I didn't care about it back then. I just cared about all the other things on paper. But at the same time, you know, because he has all those things but sexually I didn't feel safe to like be show myself to like basically show my quote unquote whole self. Like I have my whole self in bed, right? Like I am one of those, what is it called? I saw a T-shirt thing the other day. Oh lady in the street hand tie in the sheets And like I do want, I do have a wild side and get wild, but he wasn't someone like that. 1 (47m 35s): And so I never felt comfortable being like a hoe in bed with him and, and maybe, you know, that was my fault for not communicating and back then I didn't have the capacity to be the person that I am today. But yeah, it wasn't, we never, I mean we never really had amazing connecting sex due to the fact that I didn't feel safe that way because safe doesn't always mean like physically safe. 'cause I was physically safe, right? Like this is a very kind, gentle person. But at the same time I didn't feel like emotionally safe to show my true self in bed. But now with my husband, like, because we talk about sex all the time and we talk about really deep, really dark like sexual fantasies. 1 (48m 22s): So I feel accepted in every way and therefore in bed like I just do whatever. And sometimes we do like embarrassing things in bed too. Like you know, sometimes whenever I que I still laugh so much, oh my god, where did the air come from? And it always sounds like fart. And I'm like, I swear I did not fart. Although if I fart it shouldn't be a problem. But with him it just feels so safe. 0 (48m 49s): Yeah, that makes it a lot more enjoyable. How would you introduce, how would you introduce something that you wanted to do with a partner? So let's say like you haven't been the most open and there's something you've always wanted to explore, experiment with and you have no idea how to broach the subject. What is the first step for that conversation? Starting? 1 (49m 11s): Hmm. Sending a source. So like for example, if you're listening to this podcast or my podcast or whatever or an article, read an article on like Cosmo women's health, find something and then send it over to them and go like what do you think about this? Help them understand what it is first before you ask them if they wanna do it or if, or before you tell them that you wanna do it. So equip them with knowledge first because people get very apprehensive and anxious when they don't have the information. So first send the information, then ask how do they feel about it? And then if they're like, well it's interesting, then you can have room to communicate. 1 (49m 54s): Like I find it really hot and I was wondering if you may wanna try it with me next week or something like that. But I think the very first thing is send over a source and ask them what they think. Another thing is there's no shame in the coaching and therapy game. If you've been together a long, long time and you have a hidden king or fetish that you never told your spouse, like perhaps that conversation is too hard to do on your own. Maybe it's something that would be helpful to have a coach or a sex therapist help navigate the conversation. Because there are people who have a secret like hidden fetish for the longest time and they feel too ashamed to come out now. 1 (50m 39s): And so that's where like all these sex therapists out there can help you navigate the conversation. I actually was talking to this couple and you know at first they came in asked like, oh they have had a sexless marriage for like three years, like haven't had sex for three years. I couldn't even imagine. But that's not the longest that I've heard but haven't had sex for three years. And so like they wanna solve the sexless sexless marriage issue. I'm like, okay, well first let's do an assessment. They did an assessment the next day he booked an individual session, he showed up, he goes, I know what's wrong with our, with our sex life. And I go, oh okay. 1 (51m 20s): I haven't, you know, calculated the assessment yet, but you tell me. He's like, I have a fetish and I've been doing this like secretly on my own. I'm like, and what is that? And he's like cross-dressing. And you know, he talked to me about his experiences cross-dressing and actually like when he goes outta town for businesses, he will like cross dress or he will talk to an OnlyFans creator about his cross-dressing and show her when he cross dresses and she'll like give him compliments. So he's been doing this like secretly on his own for a long time to get sexual gratification. 1 (52m 4s): And so she is wondering why they are in sexless marriage. She also think it's partially her fault too because she says no a lot to initiations. So it's a very complex situation but at the same time I just wanted to give an example of like sometimes your king or fetish that you've had hidden or in secret for so long. Like that could be hard to talk about without a professional third party to like navigate it. 0 (52m 30s): Oh, that's interesting. So would you say that a fetish or a kink can be a problem if it's needed for pleasure or arousal? Like if you can't attain it without that thing 1 (52m 42s): It would you say that's healthy and for what kind of partner you have? 0 (52m 45s): Well, even individually. So like if pleasure is only available under a certain perfection, 1 (52m 53s): Narrow definition. Personally I don't think so as long as you find a way to enjoy pleasure by yourself, is it gonna be very challenging for you to be happy and in a satisfying relationship? Yes, it will 0 (53m 13s): Be. Is there a way 1 (53m 14s): Challenging? 0 (53m 15s): So is there a way, let's say someone, let's say someone like needs feet, we'll use feet as an example. Yeah. Like they need some kind of foot play. I 1 (53m 25s): Gave it someone at had a foot finish. 0 (53m 27s): Yeah. It's really common. Yeah. But let's say that they want more availability, not necessarily that they're trying to extinguish a behavior or an interest, but they just want pleasure to be more available. They wanna be able to access it without needing something else. So kind of internally cultivating it. Do you have, have you ever worked with someone like that or like, do you have steps to be able to broaden someone's horizon if they're like, this is the only thing I can find arousal, but I would like to have more options? 1 (53m 55s): Yeah, you know, it's so interesting because the last person that I worked with that had a foot fetish that was like, I just wanna enjoy even, you know, having sex with my girlfriend without like having to like use her feet to make me come. Like how do I do that? And I honestly, I honestly think it's through exposure therapy, it's through just doing it with other things and consistently getting physical pleasure from it to rewire your brain to be like, okay, I like this too. Not to say you'll not like feet 'cause you will always like feet because you have foot a foot fetish. But at the same time, I think by exposing yourself to these other types of pleasure and consistently coming from it, because when you orgasm a lot of things happen in your brain. 1 (54m 38s): Like a lot of parts are flashing right. And a lot of memories are being taken. So for me it's, it's going to be effective if you consistently expose yourself to other types of pleasure and even remembering it, like writing down in your journal or diary of how great it felt like last night to, for example, like had anal sex with your girlfriend. Right. 0 (55m 4s): Well I'm glad you did that. So I did this little poll on Instagram before we hopped on and I wanted to see if anyone had any questions. And the biggest most talked about thing was anal. Everyone is like, how do I ask for it? How do I prepare for it? Basically all like, so because I think right now most of the content is porn and that doesn't show you everything that happens before the scene, which is so necessary if you're gonna film it. And then I know you with working with a bunch of people, they've probably shared different protocols or how they've talked to a partner. So my question is, why are so many people obsessed with it? 0 (55m 46s): Because I'm like, it is a lot of work, like men, like especially like men, they don't, unless they're gay, that would be a caveat. But like straight men don't know how much work goes into be getting ready. It's like, why doesn't she wanna do it? I'm like, it's a lot, it's like two days worth of stuff. So I would love your ex like your experience or counseling or you know, how, how do men get it? Why do first why do they want it? But also how do we, how do we set them up for success? 1 (56m 15s): Well, the reason why men want anal sex so much is one, it's taboo. So it makes them feel like naughty and doing something wrong. Two, it's accessible because if you only have one partner and you're not in open or poly situation, like you can have a different type of sex with the same person, right? So it's accessible for people that are in a monogamous relationship. And then three, because a lot of men in this generation, like millennials, gen Zs did grow up like watching porn and a lot of porn is anal sex porn. And seeing pleasure and, and being exposed to, to those like pleasurable visuals, I think is just one of their like bucket lists that they wanna do. 1 (57m 2s): It's like, oh, I just wanna, I just wanna try it. I just wanna do it. I have talked to so many young guys that have done it and was like, oh, I don't have a desire to do it again. It's just like something that they wanna do it at least once and some people do really like it and want it again and wanna try to have their female partner get into it and really enjoy it. But I think here's a disclaimer, it's hard to get ready for and it's also hard to derive pleasure from it as a female. Hmm. So it's going to something that I think a lot of women is, are hesitant with trying or having it consistently. 1 (57m 45s): It's like a, it's like a special like gift. It's like a Valentine's Day gift or Christmas, maybe Thanksgiving, but, but it is hard to, like you said, it takes so much to get ready for and it's also really sore for us afterwards. Right? Like, can it be pleasurable? Yes, it can be. But is it pleasurable all the time? No, it's not. So that's something that I, I hope men can understand is that perhaps she's saying no, not because she doesn't wanna try it with you and not because something's wrong with you, but because it just takes so much work and it doesn't have a lot of ROI, 0 (58m 26s): It 1 (58m 26s): Doesn't, it doesn't have a lot of ROI versus like, you know, clitoral play or like vaginal penetration. Like it has so much more ROI than anal. 0 (58m 36s): Yeah. Have you any of your clients given you a really good protocol for prep? 1 (58m 41s): Yeah, you know, I actually learned about like prepping for anal sex from a gay man. Like he, 0 (58m 47s): I'm sure they're probably much more 1 (58m 48s): Pros. They are pros. Like they just know so much more, much more. And I learned about anal stretching and anal massage from them. 'cause I first, at first when I was younger, in my twenties when I wanted to try, I just like thought I just have to wash it really good and like maybe douche, right? I didn't think about massaging or stretching. But now my, I would say my go-to protocol for anal is number one, you have to be so relaxed. So usually if I know we're planning to do it and which which is usually like on a trip I take a bath to like relax my whole body. I take a hot bath, relax my whole body, relax my lower body and my genital area and my pelvic area. 1 (59m 30s): Then I make sure if, if I didn't like eat significantly amount of food that day I feel like I'm good. Sometimes I'll do, sometimes I don't, I just wash really well like around the hole and I put a finger up a little bit to like, you know, squid it around like this. And then the part that I added more recently that I really like is stretching and massaging with coconut oil because heat from fingers, like you can massage yourself or have your partner massage your butt hole. They, they really like that is warm up coconut oil in your fingers and use the thumbs to massage around the hole and that will like help it relax as well. 1 (1h 0m 14s): So yeah, that's kind of like the way it goes. But ultimately when I'm more horny I'm more likely to do anal sex. Therefore you cannot skip for a play and you cannot skip clitoral stimulation. Yes. 0 (1h 0m 28s): Yeah. So much to that. I think for me, if I'm going, 'cause there have been times where I've found it extremely enjoyable and I actually wanted to do it, but there has got to be stimulation on the cl, otherwise it doesn't, it, it's almost like a distraction. It like ties the whole thing together in a good way. Yeah. And if not then it's like I'm too aware of everything else that is not enjoyable. So with that being said, with like toys, do toys like overstimulate or desensitize you or make you dependent on them? 1 (1h 1m 3s): Nope. No. No. And that is the caveat is that you use it in moderation. Okay. So you can you get pleural injury? Yes you can because just like other parts of the body try pinching your arm multiple times you will get bruised, right? So yes, if you use like the extreme function of your, my bribe braider and you use it multiple times a day every single day, like you can get clitoral injury. However, the good news is the clitoris, just like the vagina bounce bounces back really quickly. 1 (1h 1m 43s): So if you know, you do get clitoral injury from going too extreme with masturbation, you can always give it a rest and allow your body to heal and recover and you should be fine. It should not kill nerve endings. Like some people say, and I have talked to many gynecologists about this because I really wanna confirmation from a gyno perspective and like, no, you don't kill your nerve endings, but yes you can get clitoral injury at the same time it bounces back. 0 (1h 2m 15s): Interesting. Yeah, because I've, I've noticed certain toys, if they're too strong, it definitely, it makes achieving an orgasm very difficult if I'm not using something and then if you're using something a lot softer it's, it doesn't seem to have the same effect. So I didn't even think of that being, I guess getting injured as an option. I didn't know that it was like a thing. 1 (1h 2m 36s): Right? Because it's like, oh of course you can 'cause it's skin. Of course 0 (1h 2m 40s): You can. It's skin. Yeah. Yeah. But like you, I don't know, for some reason I thought that was an exception. But no, that makes a lot more sense because you do, some people get a little bit more Eastern with the philosophy and they talk about vibrations and they say that the vibration of a toy is unnatural and it's like kind of goes against the vibration of the human body. And then, then that can create a weird schism almost between you and a partner or you and yourself and then you become dependent on this like unnatural thing. But that's a little bit more woo. And it 1 (1h 3m 13s): Is. And also also like watching TV is unnatural. 0 (1h 3m 17s): True. Yeah. 1 (1h 3m 18s): So, you know, a lot of our, a lot of our skincare routine is unnatural. So there's a lot of unnatural things that can be good and accessible for your life and that's fine to use. And I think if you wanna go to the extreme where you live off grid and you, you know, go grow your own food and you don't wanna use sex toys, like that's completely fine and it is your prerogative, but at the same time just know like it's not going to cause big problems in your life. There are much bigger issues otherwise, if that becomes a problem. 0 (1h 3m 54s): Yeah, I agree. And I think it's, I find it to be a huge relief as that as having that option. It takes the pressure off of you, it takes the pressure off of your partner. 'cause sometimes it's hard to stay present in that moment, which is so necessary to achieve a climax. So it's like, okay, well I have this kind of cheat code or this little boost that will get me where I wanna be if you're, you know, orgasm centered or like that's the, the goal of the, the session. And 1 (1h 4m 20s): It's amazing. Like it's always, it always feels so good. Yeah. So why not tweet 0 (1h 4m 25s): Yourself. Yeah. Just have it. Yeah. It's not a com. Yeah. Not a competition. Before we sign off, do you wanna just plug, give your plugs and I'll link everything below for you? 1 (1h 4m 33s): Sure. Yeah. If you wanna find me, my website is love bytes.co. That's L-U-V-B-I-T-E s.co. My Instagram and TikTok are also love bytes.co. 0 (1h 4m 44s): Awesome. Thank you so much. And then I'll send this to your team and then circle back to do round two. 1 (1h 4m 49s): Yes. I'm really excited to round two and also excited to share clips whenever it comes out. Beautiful. 0 (1h 4m 54s): Thank you so much. It was nice meeting you. 1 (1h 4m 55s): Yeah, stay connected. Bye. 0 (1h 4m 57s): Yes, absolutely. Bye. And that's it for this week's episode of Chatting with Candace. Please leave that five star review before you close out the app and make sure that you hit like and subscribe. I'll see you next time. Bye everybody.