Buck Angel is such a wonderful person. We only met in passing while I was still in the industry, and I was so excited when he said he would be on the podcast. Buck is an icon in the trans community. He is a voice of reason in what seems to be the age of nonsense. One of the things I respect the most about Buck is how he uses his platform to speak out against all the harmful disinformation around gender, and transitioning. Learn more about Buck https://buckangel.com/ (all socials are there as well).
Support the show (http://patreon.com/candicehorbacz)
0 (4s): Hello, everybody. You're listening to Chatting with Candice. I'm your host Candice Horbacz. Before we get started on this week's episode, if you want to support the podcast, you can go to Chatting with candice.com. There you'll find a link to my Patrion account or a link that says, buy me coffee. Both helped me to continue podcasting. Eventually get guests in an increase, the quality of the production this week. I'm really excited to have Buck Angel during the podcast. Buck is an icon in the transgender community. If you want to learn more about Buck and follow him on all of his social media is you can go to Buck angel.com. I always get really excited. And when we have guests on that, aren't afraid to speak the truth. 0 (44s): I hate to say your truth or my truth. I just like to say the truth. So I love that Buck is staying strong and standing up against the mob. And if more of us did this, we could create some real change. So I hope you enjoy the episode. It's a little bit controversial, but the whole point of it is to bring us all together with that said, enjoy the episode and give me five stars. If you like it, starting off by just saying thank you for joining the podcast. I think it's very important to me to elevate voices that are trying to be censored. I hate censorship and that's all I see on all sides of the aisle. 0 (1m 26s): And what I find interesting about your situation as you were in this marginalized group, right? Like this group that has been given like a lot of shit, and then your own tribe is like turning against you. And I was like, what is happening? And I see my face, like, all right, this isn't how it's supposed to be. So when I was scrolling through your Twitter and I saw you just not backing down to the mob coming at you, I was like, I love that. Like, I just like, we were kindled spirits cause I'm the same way. And I think there's a lot of importance behind people having that bravery. So first off, like thank you for doing what you do. I think it's super important, I guess. Do you want to kind of explain like how you started to become like the bad guy, if you will, in your own for like, how does that happen? 0 (2m 11s): Cause I can kinda relate. So we were both in like, we come from the porn industry. Right. And I feel like I don't necessarily identify with a lot of the people in said group, because I do have some more, I guess you can say conservative ideas, right. At least compared to the narrative now. So everyone's like, she's a terrible person and how dare she, blah, blah, blah. So I don't go along with the narrative. So I'm cast aside. So how did that happen for you? Well, I mean, kind of actually is similar to what you said. We were kind of kindred spirits on that level. We get it. And I mean, I love people like you too, because the situation is, people are scared to speak their voice. And even before the cancel culture and all the mob stuff happening. And before that, I always, people just not necessarily have, I don't want to say the balls, but you know the chutzpah. 0 (2m 56s): Yeah. To just stand by what they believe. I don't know how I got this way. Only thing I can think of for myself is my sex change, which I had a sex change 25 years ago and I call it a sex change and that rubs my whole community wrong. But I'm really on some level how to consider myself a sex change because I wanted to live as a man. I never wanted to live as a woman. I don't want to live with a trans person. So from the get-go of my transition, 25 plus years ago, I already had the LGBT community because I was one of the first to do it. And so the lesbians were very mad at me gay women's that was my group of people in. So I I've been literally 1 (3m 33s): Nipping at my ankles. 0 (3m 34s): And then I got into porn and then that just totally freaked the whole world. 1 (3m 39s): Yeah. Like how controversial can I get, just keep going. Like I came out as the man 0 (3m 44s): With that. Is this like on some? Oh 1 (3m 46s): No. You can say whatever you want. Yeah. I can't. Cause 0 (3m 49s): I had the man with a vagina for a mainstream 1 (3m 52s): On a regular rig. No, no, no. 0 (3m 54s): The policy. So yeah, I came out as a man with a pussy in that world out there. But today people, I mean, outside of my community, I can say I have more people who respect me like yourself are not necessarily in my community who would respect. I get so much more love and respect and things from outside of my community, which boggles my mind. Well, I honestly think so for me it's because the reason I, I found you and your platform and I respect your voice is you're not departing from Reason. Right. Like I'm all for inclusion and treating everyone kindly. Right. But we have to have these common grounds that we agree on. 0 (4m 35s): Right. So like biology is it exists. Right? So just because it has maybe been used in the past for not so great things, even against women, right? Like we used to say, women have differences in the brain, so now we're not equal and we're stupid and we should stay at home. So there were like these little hiccups that have happened in science. Now we have to just to say, it's all science doesn't exist because it was misused once. So rather than learning from our mistakes, we just say like, no, it's not real. And I don't think that's the way to go about it to the point where, I mean, I've mentioned this a couple of times. I just had doctor Debra so on and she is incredible. 1 (5m 11s): Oh my God, I love her so much. I love her. She's okay. 0 (5m 14s): This was like such a powerful Forrest of a woman. But I was explaining to her like the schools we were looking at for our son, they don't teach biology anymore. And I'm in the South. Is your son, how old is your son? 10 months. We we're thinking about putting them in like an early program. Excellent. But it it's gotten so political politicized, even down South. I'm like, I'm not putting him in until he is like five now. So he's going to stay at home and we're going to try and like, you know, mold this person to be able to critically think with all of these ideas being thrown at him. But how do you take biology out of school? Right. So it's like, we 1 (5m 48s): Are not gonna have doctors anymore. And like this isn't 0 (5m 50s): Helping. So back to the point, the reason why, the way that you get people together is through communication. And not just saying like, you are a big, that science isn't real. And it was like, well, we can't even talk because if we can't agree on basic fundamentals, where do we go from there? That's right. So I saw like you commenting on that Tampax commercial. So what's, what's your take on that situation? 1 (6m 15s): Oh gosh. I mean my, I think man, you could talk for 10 hours. It's so many different levels of things, but I have to tell you that the crux and the core of my activism, which I don't even consider myself an activist any more because the activist has turned into something that's a dirty word is a dirty word and it's gross. And it's not really what activism is supposed to be about. That said my concerns and what I see as a person who lived as a woman for half of my life and a half of my life as a Butch woman, which is a whole other level. And I fought for women's rights forever. And it was as becoming a man, I have continued to fight for women's rights because on some level I'm a Trojan horse, right. I'll never lose what I have and I don't want to, I want to sort of have that experience of femaleness and my maleness. 1 (7m 0s): And so I really think it makes me a better male on some level. So I fight for women's rights. It doesn't mean I'm anti-trans and I'm a trans person. What it means is that I see overriding voices of women, just so that a marginalized group of people can slide their way anyway. And literally our race on a whole group of people who are real and biologically real. And I'm a biological woman. I will never get away from that. And that's, those are the things that sort of get people upset in my community because I'm, I'm, I'm focused. I'm I used to be a woman. I had a man now I'm a man and it's really basic. I don't want people out there to get lost within the last and understanding what it means to be a transsexual person and what it means to suffer from gender dysphoria and what it means to wanna kill yourself. 1 (7m 47s): I wanted to kill myself. I wanted to alcohol drugs. I'm so unbelievable. Can't believe I lift and I'm here. It will make me cry when I talk about it, because this is why I'm so passionate about what I speak about because it's saved my life and it's not playing with clothes and it's not changing my hair color and its not. And all of that is fine. The kids can do all of that, but do not encroach upon a space that literally saved my life. And when you start to talk about biology as some kind of social construct and that you are hurting me because I can not just go to the doctor and say, Hey, I'm a dude, man check. I don't have testicles and I don't have a penis. I have to literally go to a gynecologist, look at me. 1 (8m 28s): So when you start to say like, you know, men, men are, this or women are this and you start to confuse what biology is. You're hurting us medically in the trans world. So I, you know, it's just a, I hate to say it's a fight, but it has turned into some form of fighting when we need to learn to coexist with each other because that we will never have as transgender people to take over that space. Cause we just won't happen. We don't need to do what we need to do as coexist with you as men and women. Right. And I kind of see 0 (8m 56s): That argument hurting the trans community as well. Because if you say that biology's not real than what's the point of transitioning like that doesn't 1 (9m 6s): Well, he was headed. So, so it's, it's actually, that's what I'm saying when the outside world and this nonsense is happening in this trans community, by you people out there that are starting to see this and that is detrimental to the future of transsexual, transgender people, people will start thinking more wing nuts. They already do think that generally trying to save and like we're not wing nuts for it to God. And we're literally actually cool, 0 (9m 31s): Right? Like it's like this loud voice, like this loud crowd doesn't necessarily represent every individual. And I think when you speak for an entire, whether it's a race or gender, gender identity, like you get into a lot of murky water there, right? Like people, I don't like being identified as just a porn star. Right? Like I'm so much more than that. So if you listen to like those loud voices like that doesn't necessarily represent me. 1 (9m 56s): Right. And that's why you stand out in the porn world. Because again, we have the porn world, right. And I stand out in the porn world too, because we created our space there and we did not succumb again to this idea of what a porn star he is or what you need. And you can't be a smart woman. If you're a porn star, you must be stupid because it's the only thing that you can do. Right, right. Blah, blah, perpetuating that you literally blew out the boxes that have won a bet, check this out. And that's why people respect you because you actually respect your line of work. People think when we are sex workers, we don't respect our work. 0 (10m 25s): Of course that's when we do it. Oh yeah. But then he just to get, I feel it, you just see the, you see both sides of, for some reason, it's always like the radical side. That's the loudest. And I've heard you on another podcast. And they were mentioning the importance of like the silent majority. And I get it like a lot of people aren't controversial and they don't want to speak up to a certain things. But I think like at some point you have to, right when it started have to pay for like the safety of everyone else, honestly, like you said, it saved your life. So I don't know, like, do you talk a lot about like your experience transitioning? Cause you've said like you were the first, you were in a bit of a Guinea pig, right? So there, there was a lot of medical dangers that no one kind of knew when it came to transitioning like you had issues with, was it your cervix or 1 (11m 12s): Yeah. So, so what happened was like, again, twenty-five years ago, nobody is doing it here in LA. And I was the first for my doctorate and removed my breasts and the first floor, the doctor to give me the hormones and everything was pretty much an experiment. My hormone doctor said, dude, you're our Guinea pig. I don't know anything. I don't know what I'm doing or are you willing to do this? Would be those. He said those words to me. So I don't want the community to look like on this guy who I don't, I've never asked for that from this community. All I've ever asked for is respect from where I come from as an elder in the community. And if you look at any other community or group of people, they respect their elders, respect all of my elders. I would never be where I am today. Even in my pornography business, I respect that elders who can be it for me, created a pass in order for me to be able to do this that said this newer generation of people don't even understand where I came from or the future of where we are today. 1 (12m 2s): That how do we even get here? That is very dangerous behavior. They are literally pushing, trying, trying to push my Voice out of it. Because on saying the wrong thing. Now I'm saying the thing that doesn't connect to what they are saying trans is. And so when I transitioned, there was no safety net. There was nothing, there was no internet. I couldn't even go and Google a sex change or what am I going to look like? Imagine honestly, people need to understand. I literally went into it blindfolded. I had know. And I had a mantra that I always said, I will just kill myself. I will just kill myself. If this doesn't work out. What that meant for me is if I started looking all weird and I would just literally off myself. 1 (12m 45s): So I came from a space of suicide that was in the back of my head. Always I'll take myself out always. And so that's why I fight because I fought to get to this. Basically what you see here is all made. I go to the gym, I work out, I create a space for myself and that this new idea of passing is also not cool with people. They don't like it in the trans community. They don't like, if you look male or female, what's passing. So passing is when you pass as a biological person. Right? So now I don't know, no longer look like a woman. I pass like a man. I go, that was the whole point of my sex. One of my sex change. And like, if you ask me my pronouns, I'm going to get so mad at you because the whole reason I transited. 1 (13m 28s): And so I don't have to tell you my and my pronouns. 0 (13m 32s): Oh my God. I was that's on my list of things. So I wanted to get your opinion on. So even in the salad, so this is like, it is completely spread. Like it's, it's everywhere, right? That's right. I am all about respecting other people. So if you want me to call you whatever, I'm going to do that because I'm not going to purposely hurt your feelings. Right? Like it doesn't matter anything else. So that's, that's my main goal. But the idea of forest sweets really doesn't sit well with me. And the idea of people that are very, obviously one gender and other, having to announce a pronoun. So a lot of the universities here, when you first like day one of the school, you would sit up and you say, hi, my name's Candice and my pronouns are she and her. And I'm like, do you know 1 (14m 12s): What I mean? So 0 (14m 14s): I understand it for people that might be ambiguous, right? Like sure. But what's that percent. And almost it's a mockery of sorts, right? When you have people that are so obvious that half to like stand up and announce, it takes away from the other people that may be due, need that conversation to be had. So what's your opinion on pronouns. 1 (14m 33s): I totally agree with you. And here's the deal? What, what, why? I don't think its okay to do that is because people like you are now not in my community about your now being forced to use some kind of language that has nothing to do with your life or anything and that's not okay. So it's not necessarily for me, just a pronoun. It's way we, as a community have gone at it and said, you have to do this. And then they attach what you're transphobic or your a turf or you're all of these things. And it's actually a very manipulative, I don't know who's running this community anymore, but whoever it is, there are very manipulative and there are some power in money behind it. There is no doubt in my mind, there is power money, their surgery's happening. 1 (15m 13s): There is all of these things happening that really point in my mind to money. And I'm like, why, why are we forcing people to take our language back in a day? You know? And they LGBTQ me and he said, well, Hey queen girl, trannie whatever, you know, dike, you know, we have as a whole, you whore. And like, you can't even do that anymore. Yet. You got to tell somebody how to say your pronoun. So you see this total fascist sort of a way of like now this was the only way you can speak. And so that's why I push against it because I live in a country where I'm allowed to think and feel and speak with even as a transsexual. And so if we start to, to sort of like, like bow down to this idea that if you don't do it, you're transphobic, then we're actually in a very bad space. 1 (15m 54s): So we're not going to, none of us are going to move forward. I'm you're going to hate me because I'm forcing you to speak the way I want you to speak. And so I'll be honest with you. I do think this is not going to last for a long time. I think people are fed up with it and people are starting to push back and they see me, like you saying the things I'm saying, and that's why they attacked me as a community, scared of me because I'm exposing the hypocrisy in that community. 0 (16m 18s): Right. And it kind of shows what their intentions are. Right. Because you very much bring people together. Right. That's all I see is like you're, you're bringing this marginalized group into the rest of like society who people were, may be scared of. Right. And they're like, this is the thing I don't really know what to do with, I don't know, pronouns. I don't know, by all that, like whatever, they was scared to have the conversation and you're like, no, it's fine. We can hash this out if we disagree. That is cool. But let's have a civil conversation about it. And they're like, Oh, know what? That makes too much sense. So why are we going after someone who's who is making a bridge? What would you say the end goal is for these activists? Because to me, I think it's, it looks a little bit ominous to me. 0 (16m 59s): Like it doesn't look like they have the best intent 1 (17m 2s): And I'm a, you know, not, they do not. And I'm going to tell you as somebody in this community, they do not. And how I know this, Oh, I could just give you many examples from my own self. And just recently they took me out of a conference that I was supposed to speak at, that I spoke at two years ago and I speak at many conferences because I'm one of the guy who literally almost died from atrophy in my cervix. Right. So I had gotten atrophy, which is cause of long-term use of testosterone when I was the first recorded taste in the history of so many transitioning and the history of the whole world. All I got attribute almost a year. 0 (17m 36s): Okay. And how important is that right? For a homeowner? Yeah. 1 (17m 40s): This is more than important and will actually save lives because I almost died. The doctor said, dude, if you didn't get in to this hospital, five more minutes, you're a septic. You wanted to die. And so I all workshop, I use my whole self, that YouTube video gets so many hits. It's used in medical settings. It is really a part of my passion is healthcare for us who don't have penises and vaginas and we have to deal with it as men. And it's not an easy space to be in, but I talk about it and I would push through it because I don't want these kids to die over something stupid like atrophy yet there I am getting asked to speak at a conference. Everything is cool. I didn't have money. So I'm like, cool, no worries. I'll donate my time. Blah, blah, blah. Next thing. And I was somebody that I went and said, made a complaint that they didn't like my Twitter, but they didn't like my Twitter and I'm problematic. 1 (18m 27s): And immediately I got a letter from the organization that so we don't particularly want to have you here anymore. And we are seeing things on Twitter and we consider you to be problematic. I like that. You don't hold the same value is when you go. Yeah. But you're in the same conference I spoke at two years ago with a packed house, bigger of tenants than you've ever had and gave so many of my products away for you. And I don't want to sound like this guy who was bitter about it. I'm not what I am is very concerned. And the future of this community, when you start taking voices out that don't supposedly align to what you and how am I not aligning as a transgender health conference. Right. So that's, that's what I see. 1 (19m 8s): And that is scary. And that's why I'm outing them. And that's why I'm talking about it. And that's why I'm like, I haven't said that organization yet. So I'm just trying to feel out, well, it looks shitty if I expose the organization or will it look important that I exposed on that? 0 (19m 21s): I think it's important. I think I've always said the best Catley you just, the union need to be able to have a debate. Right? So as soon as you start censoring people, it almost gives the person that was censored more credibility because you're like, well, if it wasn't true or if there wasn't some truth there, if they weren't scared of something, they wouldn't have gone through the effort to, to send to her, that person. So I'm a little, I always say I'm a little bit of a disagreeable, especially for someone who is like a female. Like we were just, we tend to be more agreeable. I always try to see, I guess like the point of view of other women, especially, or just people who are maybe more agreeable or like more opposed to a contract, like controversy or a confrontation. 0 (20m 3s): So like what's the worst thing that can happen from Stan. Like that's what I always say. Like, what's the worst thing, like when you get canceled from a conference, like, but what was going to happen if you didn't get canceled? I don't understand like someone was going to leave a bad review on Yelp. I don't like what? 1 (20m 16s): Oh no. What are we scared of? It has nothing to do with that. And how I know that is look at me and you are doing well. I know we are literally on zoom. Do you think conferences or in person now that are not, there are literally online. So nobody would ever even have to actually see me unless they actually went into the room. This is how they're going to get nailed. Even more kind of could understand if I was physically showing up and you know, some non-binary people just hate me beyond belief because they make shit up that I hate non binary people. I don't hate anything, but I actually don't anybody. I dislike some people, but I do not hate is not my space. So that being said, I'm not even there in person. I'm a literally in a space that you would have, have to make an effort to get into. 1 (20m 58s): And now you've taken my voice out of a conference that is so detrimental to the future and a health. Nobody does the same workshop that I do because nobody has the materials that I do. And it's like, I'm only there to teach about whatever my personal opinions are on Twitter should have nothing to do with me going into, into a space that I have always been in. Right. So, and it's non-binary they said non binary people have a problem with me. Well, I don't speak to a non binary. Right. So why are non binary people telling me I can't come to a conference that I've already spoken at? That's the scary part of my friend. So do you see, 0 (21m 33s): So the people that were really excited to hear you speak, or are they speaking out and they're like, Oh, are they getting loud? As well 1 (21m 40s): As well? Yes. People are scared. They don't want to do it. What are they scared? They don't want to get behind me, which is also a thing. There's many people out there that send me so many. I can show you so many Dan's that you Buck, or I can't come out because I'll lose my job, which has real. We know that all of my space and this, and I'll lose my space on that, but please keep doing it is why I keep doing it. Because you didn't say that to me. Deborah, Dr. Deborah says to me, Abigail says to me, tons of trans men said it to me, who won't come out because they don't want to get backlash from the community. But I have a lot of people behind me who say, please continue to do, because like I said, what's the work like you said, actually, what's the worst thing that can happen. 1 (22m 21s): I say to myself, well, is that what you're never going to cancel me? It's not possible. You could only get canceled. If you let people cancel, you cannot do that. And so that being said, that's what keeps me going is that I know some kids out there feel so much, like they wanna say what they need to say and they see me and on some levels, eventually they're going to break through and go and walk and do it soaking on it. 0 (22m 42s): Yeah. Leading by example, I think that's really important. I got the same with any in time I post anything controversial or that doesn't go against, or that goes against like the main narrative, like, Oh my gosh, someone is doing it. I can't do it. I'll lose a job. So I get for those people, I guess that have like a typical nine to five. But it's crazy because I've seen you get called transphobic and I'm like, bro, 1 (23m 3s): Well, where we have departed reality, like where are we where, Oh my God, I don't know. But you know, I laugh because it's the only thing I can do because it's so insane. Like it is actually not a lot. Nothing logical is happening in this transgender community is the minute they made an, an umbrella term, which is what they did. So it encompasses thousands of different genders. That was the first mistake. And I said it many years ago, I go, you guys are going to make a big mistake to know everyone's trans and now no one can, you know, everyone's trans you don't need to even transition. You don't even need gender dysphoria. You don't even need to do this. 1 (23m 43s): You're just trans. I'm like, okay, this is totally, it's like saying you have cancer when you don't have cancer, just to get some kind of like, 0 (23m 50s): But you do though, right? You get a lot of attention and you almost, you get put on this pedestal because we are over correcting from a time where there was a real life, like real violence and bigotry towards that community. So everything is always an overcorrection instead of just finding like a happy medium. So for me, one of the really big things that I've been trying to get loud about and getting experts on is the rapid onset gender dysphoria that you're seeing in, in girls. 1 (24m 19s): Oh, it's so sad. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I'm glad to see she is on Amazon. Oh my God. I got so wrapped up. I got ripped a new as well for this one, but you don't think, I didn't know that already. I'm going to say until to all you people out there, tough, tough, tough titties because you know what? I will speak out. I will continue to speak out for the children or the children. I don't care about you. People out there who just are, are old enough to make logical choices. They're our children now involved in those who are being told things and parents who are being told things that are not true. And as a transsexual man who literally got my life safe and I, I am. 1 (25m 4s): So I'm going to say I'm a bad ass, whether you believe it or not. It's because I love my life. And I did it in a way that I never looked back. We are giving kids hormone is that eight, seven, the hormone blockers would know research. Are you kidding? And you don't think a book like this was ever going to get written. Of course it was Abigail just saw before anybody else saw. And so shame on my community for just being like, okay, let's just use all these kids as experiments. Cause that's basically what we're doing. And then it really did. We know what's going to happen. And these kids are gonna turn 15, 16, 17, and they are gonna go, wait a minute. I'm not a dude. I'm a chick. And like, my parents made this choice without my consent and the doctors in it and you watch lawsuit's are gonna come in and out. 1 (25m 45s): It's a, it's a mess. 0 (25m 47s): He really is. And to me, the really sad part was so the doctor's are playing a really evil hand in this because they say, Oh, do you want a dead son or a happy daughter or vice versa? And like, how, how is that an argument? First of all, because the reason the data on that is still out, right. We don't really know. We just, that's a very bold statement to say. And then the parents going to get very emotional and they're like, okay, well of course, and I'm going to go with these like irreversible hormone treatments and even worse, like, you know, Portland, Oregon, I think you can get a double mastectomy at 12 1 (26m 22s): When we started on Portland or is it right? But it's like, how are you? 0 (26m 29s): I get a tattoo at that age because you can't be trusted to put ink on your body. How are you going out? And then what's it called? I always mess up the term basically. It's the idea that roughly 80% of kids pre-puberty end up just being gay. Right. So that's exactly 1 (26m 44s): Right. That's exactly right. So if anything, 0 (26m 46s): Right, it's just, we are going backwards and we're, we're being homophobic again. We can't have a gay son or a lesbian daughter and it's like, no, if you're a tomboy, then you must be trans because you are outside of this very narrow definition of what it is to be a girl. So it's just really sad to me in one of the schools we were looking at, they had what they called a Tran, a trans girl in the class. And I was talking to 1 (27m 14s): Wait a minute back up for a woman at how old is your child? 10 months. So it was in his school 0 (27m 20s): In his class, but it was in kindergarten. So like Candice and I had a Tranpa. Yeah. So I think it's like five is when you start kindergarten. So, and they were, cause I was asking them all of these questions because I'm not just going to stick my kid in a school with, I don't know what the principles are behind it. So I'm asking all of their opinions on all of these like social topics. So they had like this a very big, like coming out party for her and I get it right. Like I, it goes back to over-correcting I get it. But if you look at the data, the chances are that that's actually going to just be a gay boy. Right. And that's wonderful. That's great. And if they end up to be trans post puberty, that's wonderful. 0 (28m 1s): That's great. But if you look at the data and saying 80%, there are huge social ramifications for even socially changing your gender at that age. Because as human beings, we don't like to, to say we were wrong and backpedal. So it's like, well, I made this huge change and I can't go back. Right? Like it's going to be too embarrassing. I don't want to admit my faults, whatever. Or my parents told me this and the doctors told me this, so I must be this. So you're going to see a lot of, of children that post puberty are like, well, who am I now? I actually have gender dysphoria because now I'm in the wrong body and it's too late to go back. And my parents did anything. That's your reversible? Where do you see the logic for these activists? 0 (28m 41s): Because it's children, right? Like it's kids. We should all agree to protect kids. 1 (28m 47s): We are not, we are not playing with blood. If you're a 20, do what you needed to do with it. I'm going to tell you right now, cutting your boobs off without having a lot of therapy or doing that, you'd probably make, and it was a mistake, but that's just my opinion. You're 20. You can do whatever you need to do. And a five and six, are we insane? And I'm a transsexual. Let's not forget that. And I'm telling you, are we insane? If it is not okay? Yeah. I don't care about social transition, social transition. As the way I did it, I have to dress like a guy who had to walk the world as a dude, before I can get any surgeries ne of the things. And that wasn't, it was an actual structure we had back in the day. I had to take a note from my therapist to my hormone doctor. 1 (29m 27s): It was a little, it was like a, a, a, you know what I mean, a step in a step in a step, in a step in making sure that I, along the way that I was always prepared for the future of being man. And I've never looked back, it's never even been a thought process for me today. We're like, Oh, you have a little inkling of wearing a boys' clothes. You must be. Tranpa like, it's so insane. And you have to tell you that I traveled the world. Talk to you about my life story. Its sort of like a real business is a public speaker. And I've talk about my whole transition. And one of the things I've talk about is really being a tomboy at that age. And you know, people just, you know, saying, Oh, you know, she'll grow out of it. And I would say, no, I actually grew into it. But I started to think, you know, I kind of stopped using that in my story because I think people are picking up on it in a wrong way now because I see that. 1 (30m 11s): Yeah I do. Because now I start seeing this idea that once a child is masculine, which I was a very masculine child, that they must be trans. And so I feel like I should stop maybe talking about that in a way I'm talking about it and more in a sense that I felt this way of people would kill about it. Nobody pushed me, nobody. In fact, they tried to take me out of it. Right? So in a sense today, what would it be doing is the opposite of what they did with me. There are pushing these kids. And what you said earlier, parents are hearing doctors say shit like if you're not as good as a kid is going to kill themselves, those doctors need to be a reprimand and lose their license. What they're doing is a lie. 1 (30m 50s): It's a, it's cheating. It's stealing their children from that. It really is. And then, 0 (30m 55s): Well I guess back to education because that's where it first starts trickling in for the whole new generation. So when you have these parties that celebrate a child, I guess switching genders, right? You're introducing this very complicated subject to, to five-year-olds right. Five-year-olds so you now have a child that was, I'm going to say neuro-typical is that a good, a good way to describe it? Yeah. That is now. Well maybe I should question these other things because I didn't know that these were options, right? So it's not something that just comes like you're born that way. Right? 1 (31m 33s): So you're born this way. Like you're a born gay, you're literally born gay. It's an actual thing. I don't care what anybody says. It's in your body. 0 (31m 40s): Plenty of like FM MRI's that, that show that the evidence for that that's right. So now you're confusing. These kids that don't have critical thinking, their frontal lobe is not there. And then they also see this other kid getting attention and love. Right? There has been some studies to suggest when it comes to bullying that trans kids do get favored from the authoritative figures, right. That people are really they're to protect the trans kids, which is wonderful. But they ignore maybe the gay kids because now like that's fine. You're no longer oppressed or marginalized, so they don't need any help. So you see this group of kids that are getting glorified for something and you want love, you want attention. And we all lean into that. So then you might start creating a problem where there isn't one. And that's where you see the rapid onset that's happening in the UK with these girls. 1 (32m 23s): That's right. Yeah, no, I'm totally on board with you. And is why that book has, is freaking the trans community out. They are freaked out by that book. As you see, like Abigail, some, somebody that took a, a go fund. Me and I got a huge Hi I live in Los Angeles and they had a huge billboard up on HUD in a high gloss area. And I go for the book that was so people are freaking out, freaking out, but I'm thinking, why are you free? What, here's what I wanted to know. I'm not freaking out. I'm a transsexual person. So like people weren't even transgender or are freaking out, Oh, wait a minute here. This book I am telling you is to read it. It doesn't mean that is actually the way to go. 1 (33m 7s): But it's a book about a person who thinks and is research on showing you the statistics. You can take it or leave it, my friends, but it is a book that is necessary in order for all the information to be out there. 0 (33m 18s): Yeah. And for everyone, that's just listening. We're talking about irreversible damage by Abigail Shrier. The other important part to drive home as well is you need to have both sides that are having their voices heard because there are, there can be consequences, right? Like if we're not doing all of the steps to make sure that this decision is truly what you want, right. Especially when we're talking about kids. Yes. Right. We have to talk about this is permanent. And some people regret it and they, you know, there is a D transitioning. I don't know how well that works out for people. I know you're for, depending on how, the extent of it, your fertility could be shot. I know that for some people, the ability to orgasm, it could be shot. Right. So you're telling me, you want a kid to never be able to experience like being intimate with their partner when they're grown. 0 (34m 5s): Like that's for sure. 1 (34m 5s): And even thinking of that, there are not any, you know, thee, Oh God, there are so many layers to this, my friends. And it was actually shocking that, you know, I have an eight year old son. And so it's not that I don't have kids in my life. I'm around kids all the time. And I mean, when we have our outdoor COVID play Barneys and I love kids. I love, I think of my kids in the trans community as kids, you know what I mean? Like I'm just really versed on helping the future become a, a, a balanced, not just trans kids, but kids, you know what I mean? And so I really see them as the future, but we're, we're hurting the children. We are not helping the children. We will have a massive amount of number one, the transitioners and which is happening on a fast rate. 1 (34m 46s): And if the trans community literally trying to shove that under the rug, because it is really showing that, wait a minute, maybe we aren't doing the right thing. And they don't. And so that's why I'm speaking out against the community leaders, because they're not being responsible when they try to hide books like this. And when they try to hide things that are not, that are factual, like biology and all this stuff that says to me, you don't have an agenda. That doesn't mean that you want to help people like me. That means you actually have an idea of what it means. And I don't know, it's freaking me out too, is it that they want to have a whole mass of trans people so that it can become powerful. Okay. 0 (35m 21s): Some of us would, it seems like for someone that's as they'll call me assess or whatever, 1 (35m 27s): I hate that word. But as 0 (35m 29s): A biological woman, like, that's kind of what I see. So when we have all of this information and this massive amount of people that are D transitioning, because they were told at such an early age, like this is what you are or whatever the reason is, how do we protect those people that are going through gender dysphoria? When our professionals aren't even allowed to question anywhere, because it's illegal in what 20 States 1 (35m 57s): It's called self ID. It was like, I'm going to self ID. I have cancer, right? Like, I mean, I'm not laughing at cancer is messed up. Right? That being said, it's that it's that illogical that you we'll let an eight year old kid say I'm trans and the parents can not ever say anything about it ever. Like what, Oh, come on. The whole reason. I'm a parent. If anyone ever did that with me, with my child would just tell you to go ahead and try it. If my kids said to me, they were transiting or Hey dad, you know what? I'm feeling more like a woman, a girl, whatever. We don't want to be this of course go right ahead to wear a dress. I don't care what you do about it, but you're not going on hormones. And you're not doing, you can even change your name. I don't care do all of that because kids do that. 1 (36m 40s): I did it. And lots of kids when I was growing up, did it, they're always going back and forth with boy and girl names and bla bla bla. All of that is a natural number. One thing is that health of this child in the future health of this child. But when you start putting in something called Lupron or a hormone blocker with no understanding of what are you doing, and I can't even believe parents do it. So I don't know a lot about that 0 (37m 3s): Hormone side of it. So I had really bad endometriosis. How old was I? I think I was 19. I mean, I like, I would look pregnant. I would get so much swelling. I would miss work because of the pain. So I actually got on Lupron for about a year. And I, I mean, it's like, this is a big old shot put in your ass. And it was like, wreck me for the rest of the day. I had so much shit happened to me because of that medication. There was a class action lawsuits in all of this stuff. So we are giving that to kids. I had no idea. 1 (37m 34s): We are giving that to a kid. Shit. That is what it is. And they use it for cancer too. I think about it. And they use it for young kids who do have sorta like some puberty the situation, because that happens, of course that's natural, our bodies aren't all right. But that said, yeah, they are literally pumping stuff. And it's a little girls and like saying, well, it's going to save their lives. How many hours? Right. Show me where their statistics at. This is actually going to say, go ahead and start to listen to the transition or is it well, and you should get one on your show because I'm telling you that it's profound, profound. I cry every time I listened to them, I cry and cry and I'm going to cry now because it saved my life. 1 (38m 18s): And so when I see a youngster of 20 years old, cut their breasts off and hysterectomy and turn around and say, this did not work for me. How do you think that makes me, makes me feel horrified for that person? Because it shouldn't be that way they should of got therapy. They should have really thought about they should of had much more structure around it. It saddens me as you see so deeply, because that should not be that this child now it has to live with a body that is literally mutilated and they will have to live with that for the rest of their lives. Why are we as a trans community, not compassionate and empathetic towards that. 0 (38m 55s): Right. We should feel for that person. And we should understand that it's a very real consequence. Yes. And it doesn't take, I think a lot of it's fear-based right? Like they're fearful that it's going to take away, like their standing in society and that they're going to go backwards a a a hundred years. And I just don't see that happening. I think everything that we are moving, we were moving forward in such a healthy way, but it's the whole idea of power versus force. So if you, if you start pushing this way, it's gonna just be the natural reaction to push back that way. Even if like, you don't want to, even if you're not a combative person. So I think it's so important, because again, you have these people that are like, well, what do I do now? And if we take away the steps of therapy, what's left, there's nothing. 0 (39m 38s): There's no, like, there is no safety net, if you will. Right. So we were like, okay, well let's do some therapy and talk it out this way. And then lets check in with this doctor and like these checks and balances. And then if you were to its not to say like you can't transition. If you are an adult, that's your right. And you can do what you want. But I think that you do need to be questioned. It's not, I don't think it's bigger than to say that you should be questioned. It's a very big deal. I mean, we still have, we still have marriage counselors in the South for a lot of people. Right? You have to go through counseling before you can get married because that's such a big transition. That's a social transition. We're talking about a physical one that the science isn't there yet, but we can just snap our fingers and say, nevermind, let's go back. 0 (40m 19s): Right. So I guess when it comes to legislation, like how do people start turning, reversing this? Cause right now, again, 20 States, you can't even question as a child. If they go in and you're just like, okay, here you go. 1 (40m 31s): You got to be reversed. I think so sure of it because people are starting to see how irresponsible it is about us. It's irresponsible. Now here's the deal. I'm not saying that some kids shouldn't have that situation. If it's available to them. When we have more understanding of long term and if therapy is involved in the transition and if parents are given all kinds of information, why you should do it and why you shouldn't do it as a parent, if you only gave me, you should do as our child is going to kill themselves out of leave that office and so fucking fast. And I would report you just so you know, because you're not giving me why, why will my kid kill themselves of show me the statistics on that? 1 (41m 16s): They are not showing you that they are just guilt tripping these because I do. I think it's the sort of, for lack of a better expression of brownie points that they get. These everyone is latching on to trans stuff. Doctors are now trans doctors. Really? I have a question. How did you become a trans to adopt or did he go to trans school? Did you learn about medicine? There is no trans medicine. So how are you a trans doctor? You, you understand what I'm saying? Oh, well how are you a trans surgeon. And how are you giving a, a cross hormones when you weren't even taught how to give cross hormone? So I have I'm questioning the medical world. And then that's why also all of a sudden, I don't get asked to speak at the medical conference and I'm there I go to all the doctors, that question, all of them that are they, there are, they go running. 1 (41m 57s): When they see me that's because you actually have really the sound points. Right? And you, you lived in, 0 (42m 5s): So you're like, no, like this is real. We can't just do this and expect like the body not to react in, in such a way that it's like, this was all so new. Oh my goodness. 1 (42m 15s): Well, I mean, God, why are we even having this conversation? Why would a book, irreversible damage have to be written? It had to be written. That's the scary part. It's not the book, but what's inside the book. It's the book itself that says a lot to me. And then also Deborah's book, right? The end of this book had to be written as well. That's that says to me, that's how scary it is when we start to have to write books. And you know, there are like burned the books. I'm thinking, I know a burn J K Rowling book. Like you, people are out of your mind, you are actually out of your minds because that's not how we're going to get people to like us and move forward. Now everybody hates us because we like JK Rowling. 1 (42m 55s): He was a trans woman when she is not. 0 (42m 57s): So she's definitely not. No, I saw it was ridiculous. I saw them going after her. And I was like, what are you doing that? Like, she would just, no, she's not, she's not those things. And I'm glad she kind of said something because like, as a biological woman, like I see this MySpace disappearing, right. It's like, okay, I see it being taken away by these trans activists. I see it taken away by what you would. I'm going to say allies, which I think is another gross word because it was just like, okay, cool. Like I get it. Like you're a virtue signaling. Awesome. That's where we're at in this conversation. 1 (43m 31s): It's the worst. It's the absolute worst? What was I going to say? Well, well, what are we, are we talking about JK? That's a very, 0 (43m 40s): The thing, because, so there was another article. I just saw it and were, they took them word mother away. And to me that is such a sacred word to me. I just had a baby. We had a very traumatic birth. Like I said, he's wonderful now. Like he was super healthy, but that word to me is such a powerful word. And it doesn't take away like from gay couples or trans it's like that word means to still exist. Right? I'm not gonna let that go. So it was a, it was called the birthing parent is now what they called 1 (44m 9s): Is that you just to deal with language, what they can say, whatever they want, call a birthing, call it a marriage, call it. I don't care. But don't you dare tell 99% of the world, which is biological. I'm not, I don't want to be called a mom. I wanted to be called a dad. Okay. So that's my prerogative to be. I live as a man. I do not live as a non binary trans or any. I'm a man who is a dad who was a father who was a male. You're a woman who was a mother who gave birth to an actual baby. If you're a trans man and giving birth, you can call yourself whatever you want, but don't you dare force anybody else. This birding a birthing person, what are they calling periods? 1 (44m 52s): People who get men straight or something, but it's a pile offensive. Is that, how is that sense? Is that it's wrong? And they have no logic around that though. They try to be locked. Cause I'm like really wanting to tell me why you want to do that. Because what you're doing is you're saying inclusive, inclusive, what? It would include woman. We would include the word woman. You're now literally taking out there saying no, because now we're making it inclusive language. I go by inclusive language includes the other people. So what about the lady who doesn't want to be called the birthing person? What is he wants to be called mother? So you're telling her that she can't be called you see, but they don't have an argument with me. They just shut me down and call me Transworld. 1 (45m 33s): And then turf, because you can't fight back friend. Cause I'm fighting back. There is no way they're going to take that off the table. It ain't going to happen. 0 (45m 39s): Use of language is honestly it's, it's brilliant on their end, right? Because you don't want to argue against these things. And once you overcomplicate something, then you're like, well you automatically give the other person credit instead of yourself. So you're like, well, I'm just not smart enough. So that's a whole idea of postmodernism, right? It's like, it's like, how confusing can we be? And I'm just a scholar and this is Mo again, the, my truth argument. There's just truth. So there is no Lake that's out of subjective. So if we over-complicate this and people will just back off. So you get this small, right? Like that's, that's the whole point. So it's like, if we say, well, what is a woman? And they keep diluting that down. 0 (46m 21s): And I just don't understand. Cause I'm, I've never been oppressed or marginalized. So I shouldn't speak up because it's not my stage. I think everyone's a lot, in an opinion, everyone is allowed to stage. I hate when people are saying men can't be in this conversation, biological people can't be in this conversation. That's how we start into like very scary situations. That's how it was Germany happened, right? That it was like, it was slowly taking away the voice of this, this group. And it doesn't matter. They don't deserve it. And this is why and you keep justifying it. And then we end up in, I don't know, 200 years in the past. 1 (46m 54s): So exactly what's about to happen. So, you know, trans rights are now happening and all this language mumbo-jumbo is happening, but it's going to get torn down. It's so fast. And we're going to, our trans rights are going to be pulled back five a hundred years because we are not coexisting. I said every day, you better. Learn trans women. This whole rhetoric of trans women are women and trans men and men. No, one's arguing that I'm not a man. What I'm arguing with you is I am not a man. I am a trans man. A big difference. Stopped trying to say, I am not biological. Biology is in a spectrum. Things aren't socially. But that being said, we can't, we have to co-exist with you. 1 (47m 35s): And that's right there for me. The biggest problem is we keep trying to overrun and tell everybody else how to think, how to be out of it. And that we are more important than you. And that's why I got into the Rawlings debate. Cause I said, wait a minute, here she is an actual woman, a powerful woman who see something using her platform in order to speak out against her own self and feeling threatened. Why are you as a trans woman allowed to feel threatened and Matt, but a woman is not allowed. And as a trans woman should know if you really feel and want to be a woman, right? We should understand what she's saying. And that's where I'm a little bit confused about trans women. 1 (48m 15s): Not understanding why women are saying, wait a minute, here, we can't take you. Can't just be a woman. You don't have the same experiences. 0 (48m 22s): So for me again, I don't know how much of it is just because of, you know, your Twitter feeds curated based off of what you engage with on all of that good stuff. But I see a lot more arguments being made to protect trans women than like trans men. So certain like laws that are getting past our, in our, in our argument for the protection of trans women. If we talk about the prison thing that just got passed in California, right? And I never thought of it like that until I was reading your Twitter. And I was like, Holy shit, this makes so much sense, but why is no one saying it? So the whole thing for the listeners is that you get to go to the car. And I think this is happening already in Canada, right? So you get to go to the jail with the SEC's that you identify with or the gender that you identify with. 0 (49m 8s): So if you are a biological man, and this actually happened, you go in for violent crimes like rape. You are now in a jail full of women, but we're not thinking about the trans men that were biological women being sent into a very violent situation, surrounded by old biological men where they're going to be very easily out straight. Like there's the strength difference is huge, right? Just, 1 (49m 34s): Well, God, I had the thought of that. It was terrifying. It should be terrifying. Okay. So why are we not protecting trans men right on my friend? Thank you so much because the leaders of this community are a trans women. There are many billionaires who have a lot of money and I can name bunch of them right now, but I'm not going to be. There was a lot of elders older. They are not an elder in a sense of transition time. A lot of them just transitioned in the last five years, very, very rich men who changed to women and live that way and have a lot of money on are funneling that money through there. So that said these laws and things get passed because guess what? In America, things are easily bought. Lobbyists exist, money talks. And so don't fit. 1 (50m 15s): Cause I'm like, I'm in my mind, I'm like, wait a minute. I'm fighting for trans rights for 25 plus years. And things are barely moved. And all of a sudden these trends, powerful women got involved in the thing and things started moving fast. So I see money attached. I see an agenda and I see trans women out of a more powerful voice because they were socialized as men. This is a really what people need to understand. Trans women are so different than trans men because I was socialized as a woman. So what was I taught to do for me? Not necessarily be so aggressive on moving forward. Things tied to reteach myself that I can say, this is how men act. Right? So that said women aren't in part to be aggressive when we are taught to be aggressive as a woman, you're a bitch or a right. 1 (50m 58s): Or you're just like that kind of lady. So I think trans women have a different understanding of socialization. And so they come into it with a much more of a good thing 0 (51m 8s): Aggressions there. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. I see that. 1 (51m 11s): Do you have to dig on trans women out of nobody takes that as that is just what I see as a trans man and why trans women tend to have a much more powerful voice within the community. And also the hate I get is from these certain types of trans women, those are the ones who are constantly calling me. 0 (51m 29s): So, and then what do they say when you have that argument? Because, so just to put it into perspective, like the average, when we were talking about biology here, so I know it, it does change after, I think it's like 15 years, whatever you start to see changes. But for the average couch, potato biological man, his grip strength is stronger than a lot of Olympic athletes, biological women. That's just biology, right? So you stick someone who is a biological woman into a jail with biological men. What do you think is going to happen? 1 (52m 6s): Right? This man ain't going to jail. So we didn't know. And it's scary. We will, I will be put into gen. Okay. So now I don't even sure if I'll be putting the general population, that is where you get raped and nailed. And are you kidding me? I would be so destroyed. I remember I have a vagina. I don't have a penis, so yeah. 0 (52m 27s): Yeah. You wouldn't last a day. So, so when you bring up this argument to these activists, what D what do they say? Coz that's a very real threat for trans men. They don't have an argument. They just say it does matter. 1 (52m 39s): So in your answer, they don't answer me or are they say turf? They have no. And that's why I know they don't care about trans men. And they only care about the rights of non-binary, which are a lot of men becoming non binary now. So the non binary has actually the voice of the non binary has taken over the trans community on some level. And so people like me are sort of like this old idea of being trans, which there's a million of people like me, but how we transitioned to become men and women. And we go back in the world. And so I can name five, a hundred people I know are like me, who literally lived in the world and have regular jobs that you would never know. And that's the whole reason why we transitioned. I just happened to be con you know, in the business. And then it becoming an activist and be out there. 1 (53m 19s): But most of us just want to be left alone. We just want to have to be men and women. And so this new majority Voice is nothing about what you see here, sitting in front of you in about what the whole purpose of transitioning is about. Its become a hot head weaponized space for some reason that I'm not sure. I can't tell you, but it's scary me. I don't want my community used like this as a weapon. And it's being used as a weapon, which is just disgusting and gross, and many people who are going to die and lose out from this situation in such a horrible way. They're not helping us. There are hurting. Yeah. 0 (53m 54s): I don't really see where you go from here. Especially when it's getting like filtrated into the schools is such an early age. Like it's you almost need like a counter activist group that brings resources to these schools. And he was saying like, this is going to do more harm than good. And if you have a child that is experiencing gender dysphoria, these are healthy ways to handle it until puberty. And you can still support the child, love the child to treat a child with respect, but ultimately have their best interest at heart, which is not to give a kid everything they say they want. Right? Like the thing is that, 1 (54m 26s): Well, if I gave my kid everything they want, like, are you that kid out of the work? For sure. I'm not kidding. I'm like, no, dude, you want that game? You better get on and pick up the dog shit and go walk. I'm not kidding you totally hilarious. But that being said, I'm telling you, I already said it already. And the again, I'm trans, I don't want that being taught to him. He doesn't need to know that. Also. He doesn't know that I'm a traveler. He doesn't know about me. He doesn't know what I was just dead. Like that's it. He doesn't need to know any of that stuff at all. It will confuse him. He won't understand. We need to understand biology and then move forward. And then if those things start coming out excellent. For sure. You got to give these kids on actual logical base. When you start teaching them back. There was 57,000 genders out there to my child that I will rip him out of that school right now. 1 (55m 13s): But I think I'm playing, but I don't understand. There are some strengths in academia two, and now the academic part is also a really scary what's happening on colleges and universities. And as a queer theory and all of this nonsense and like, you know, everything is a spectrum and everything is socially constructed, so dangerous. Okay. 0 (55m 30s): It really is. And they get to you because they get you by your heartstrings. So when I first started going to college, I took one of those women, gender studies classes, and you know, day one, they're playing these videos and documentaries and I'm crying. And I'm like, the world is such a terrible place. I need to help these people. And they know what they're doing. It's all intentional, right? Like they met, first of all, you know, most biologic women are going to be more eager to take that class and biological manager is, and we're more emotional and nurturing. So we are going to try to like wrong all of these rights. And then when you're feeling something so intensely, it's easy to ignore data that's right. 0 (56m 10s): So you lead with your emotions. So again like your, and your frontal lobe is still not there. That's not even done until twenty-five. So it's still like a little bit of this download stage in your human experience. And again, this is calculated. There is an end point that they are trying to get. And I don't think it's a very good, I think we need to try to raise our kids to be critical thinkers, because if people have you by the emotions, then there are under 1 (56m 34s): Control for good that's right. That's right. A a hundred percent. Then what happened to critical thinking that they act is of critical thinking is like some crazy thought thing that we shouldn't be teaching people if my kid better critical things, because that's how he's going to get to be a badass kid in a bad-ass person. And so now we're just taking all of this and I swear we're making robots. That's what I see. We're literally making these children robots and the children that attack me mostly non-binary kids. And mostly this idea that I'm this bad person, because I'm saying biology exists. And I'm saying things that aren't actually, what is actually real factual things. And then there are being told the opposite. So that's what I see. 1 (57m 14s): And when I see a younger generation on talking about these tic cop kids in 16 to 20, they're a really dangerous because they have, they have there literally have nothing stopping them. They think they can just go, they have no filter, no block, nothing. They're just like, fuck. And I'm just like, who does? That is a lot of anger or a lot. And I was like, well, I was 16. I acted like that in my ass. What a black cat. Yeah. That's, you know, there are not that kids should be hit, but that being said, discipline, there was consequences. Discipline. I learned discipline as a child. If you knock that coffee cup over, you better go pick it up. You don't just leave it there. And kids are knocking coffee cups on everything and just leaving it there for everybody else to pick up. And this is what we're teaching a very vulnerable kids at 16 are vulnerable. 1 (57m 57s): You remember when he was 16? I remember at 16 was probably the worst time work. And so here's a terrible for everyone rans horrible. And so that's why I think trans has just this illusion that they think they can have and be part of what you said earlier on in the podcast. I just feel like more, wanted a more accepted as a, as a part of this new group of people. 0 (58m 20s): Yeah. I think it's the same with the whole non-binary movement because that's also gone up massively. I want to say, like you said, it's like 1% of people that kind of fall under like that LGBT umbrella. But when you look at the data, especially with gen Z, it's almost all of them know someone who's non-binary or that I'm gonna say identifies as trans 'cause. To me, what I'm saying is not real. So the, see more of that than they see, you know, a gay man or a gay woman, right? So the data is just not adding up and then you see this huge spike in non-binary. So some of the data suggesting that we used to have different outlets for these kids to kind of express themselves and experiment with certain things and then those aren't there anymore. 0 (59m 3s): So now the in thing is to be non-binary and that's great. Like find yourself, we have talk about the anger there. And we have to talk about the forced speech there because w what is it? Can it, I think it's Canada, there are making their national Anthem, all gender inclusive. So anything that is like gender specific is taken out. When a 1 (59m 22s): Guy, like, if, if it's a sheet, they are going to change it to they, something like that would make a lot of sense. Like really come on. People that, you know, that's disrespectful to actual biological people. It isn't male. Female is inclusive. I don't understand why people are acting as is not inclusive. I don't care if you're a non binary, you're still male or female on some spectrum. Within there. You are male and female, male, female is inclusive, language. It, there is so insane that they need to add they, which will just mess up the whole thing. And then, and then now we're going to tear everything apart. And then in five years, we're going to have to paste it all back together again, because somebody is going to finally go, Oh my God, what did we do? Exactly. 1 (1h 0m 2s): And I always say like, 0 (1h 0m 3s): We're very like emotionally reactive to anything, especially in a negative way. That means that there's something inside that you haven't like dealt with. And like, if you call me a whore, I'm not going to be triggered. I'm going to go on about my day. And I'm gonna forget that that even happened because I'm okay with who I am in decisions that I've made. So if you, I don't know, like, I just don't understand the whole for speech. I don't understand the forest theology almost. Cause now it's like a new religion, right? So if 2 (1h 0m 31s): It is, and if it's, you don't bend 0 (1h 0m 32s): The knee, if you don't accept this, like this new Bible, then you're the enemy. And I'm going to come at you with all of this anger and pent-up energy. So what, I just don't know how we fix that. 1 (1h 0m 43s): Well, listen to me, my friend is going to fix itself. So Mark, my words, everything I've said throughout this whole and sanity in the last five years has happened. One of the things, sadly, sadly, that has happened is D transitioners. So I called it years ago. I said, you watch and see people who are not a, now there are just rolling out like candy. I swear. It's just like that. So that being said, it's going to backfire. I what's happening is the nonbinary people who are taking over the trans community pretty much. Non-binary now there's not so many people like me left. We're all kind of hiding over here. So what's going to happen. Is there are going to implode. 'cause what they're doing is not logical. 1 (1h 1m 23s): People are going to get fed up or there are pushing too hard. That's not how you make change. That is not how you make change. I've been making change for 30 years. You did not make you actually co-exist you extend your hand. You educate, you, let people have their weird freak out on you, 2 (1h 1m 36s): And then you're coming forward again. And then it's fine. 1 (1h 1m 40s): Scared of it anymore. The world likes them out with a pussy when they use that word. 2 (1h 1m 45s): Yeah. They're like, Oh, that's so cool. Oh my gosh. That's amazing. 0 (1h 1m 49s): Yeah. So you're like, you're a wonderful example. I mean, I hope, I hope people start seeing the changes that you have made and continue to make. And then you can see that you can make change and, you know, create a bridge with life love and positivity and not with fear. Okay. 1 (1h 2m 5s): That's right. Beautiful friend. And that's why me and you would talk. And that's why re when people are like, you reach out, you've reached out to me, which says a lot. So I appreciate that. You hear my voice when you see my voice, when you see the importance of my voice, because that's how we build bridges. We don't have to be best friends. We just have to respect each other's choice of life. And that's all I ever asked from anybody. You don't have to like me. You don't even have to agree with my choice of life, but all you need to do is say, Hey, that makes Buck happy right on and move forward. And that's what most of the people in the world deal with me. And they're all viable. 0 (1h 2m 39s): Yeah. So the one last thing I wanted to touch on. So I see a lot of biological women. And again, I think a lot of it has to do with like going to university that are the self identifying allies and they're being really loud and aggressive to other people on social. And there again, there are standing up for a group that they're not even a part of. 1 (1h 2m 60s): Yeah. So what is 0 (1h 3m 2s): That about? How 1 (1h 3m 5s): I guess embarrassing is that well, here's what I think because they are doing it. Not because I don't, but I don't believe that all of them have it in their heart. I believe they're doing it. Because again, it's the thing to do just like BLM. Right? If you don't Support and I, and I'm not saying anything bad about black lives. I think it is. I think that a concept of it as a very important, brilliant linguist move. Thank you. That's exactly right. My friend is on marketing. I'm a marketer. I didn't apply. That's how I built my self. I'm a marketing degree. So that said, it's all about marketing that everything, even in the trans community, in all of that, it's all about how you place words, how you get people to think about all of that. So that being said, just if you're in, if you're not putting a hashtag BLM on everything that you do, it doesn't mean you're racist and it doesn't mean you don't belong to the thing. 1 (1h 3m 49s): I think to many white people are speaking for black people. That's what I think. And I was just moving to the back of my white ass is over here. So I'm in full Support of, of creating an unraced world are 110% for sure. My white ass needs to be here while you are, as a black person can actually speak for your own. And that's what I don't understand about these new allies, ally ship, and telling me to shut up literally an actual non trans person who was an ally telling me that I'm a turf and shut up is so insane. It's like me as a white guy telling a black person, 0 (1h 4m 19s): Well, that's happening though, too, right? With the Antifa. And I was like telling these conservative black people to be quiet. And you're like, Whoa, again, it's the departure from reality. That's right. Oh my goodness. 1 (1h 4m 32s): Thanks. They are doing everyone thinks they're doing God's work. And everyone thinks they're like doing this amazing shit. When everyone needs to sit down, sit down, introspect in yourself. What is it that you want to create in the world? Not what you think you need to do in order to be a part of this bigger. No people need to come back to themselves will not, will be coming to sort of a monolithic kind of thing in the trans community. We're all the same. We're all thinking like, no, we're not, not never going to be a part of that in any of the communities. I have a long to me that I belong to a lot of communities. So we needed to be able to start to come back to themselves. And what is it that you want to project into the world? What is it that you want to create? 1 (1h 5m 12s): Well, not, not, I want to belong to this organization because it's, you know, it's the thing I need to do without people 0 (1h 5m 19s): That too, right. Is everyone is like, so scared of being called anything. That's like phobic or IST or whatever. And I can tell the listeners I've been called prolly all of them. I got called trans. I got called transphobic two days ago. And it was like, well, you're going to be really surprised at my guest in Arizona campaigns. 1 (1h 5m 35s): I love you. And I love you. Totally use me. And I was like, really? Buck my, 0 (1h 5m 39s): Oh, I was like, okay, if I was, I wouldn't be having a conversation and I'm not, I'm fully supportive of everyone doing what they want. Right. Like, I believe it's just that we provide the evidence, provide one single iota. 1 (1h 5m 53s): So here's what I'm going to tell you a friend. That's why you got to take transphobia off the table now because they call me transphobic. Right? So that it immediately tell you right there. But it's not, it's not a word that doesn't mean anything anymore. When you start to eat your own, when you start to come into your own community and starts to force language like Nazi, it's so Nazi, fascist and gross, it's like, Oh, you're not good enough. Or the Nazi party, we're going to put you over here. You know what I mean? Like it's so insane. And so to tell somebody like you, that you are trans phobic, what is that do literally puts you up. And he goes, okay, fine. I'll just be a Transworld. See you later. And you going to help you, right? So you reached out to me what you already get a million years ago. And you said, you know, let's do this. And that means to me that you care, you see the voices in our community that literally are above the rhetoric. 1 (1h 6m 39s): That's all the rhetoric right out of your transphobia. You're a terrible trying to make all that shit. And then you see people like myself, go wait a minute here. 0 (1h 6m 47s): Well, there is another way to approach everything it's 1 (1h 6m 50s): Discussing. They called you transphobic. 0 (1h 6m 53s): Oh, I know I'm in. Honestly, if I wasn't like who I was like, that could have really affected me in a negative way. Right? Like, wow. I don't know. No one wants to be a bigot. No one wants it's a lifeline or a life support. Right. These things exist. No, one's denying that they exist. But I truly believe we are in a very like inclusive world. I think we're in a very different space than we were 50 years ago. Even 20 years ago. 1 (1h 7m 17s): Yes. And the 10, even in times when I first came out, I started to experiment with my sexuality. And so I really got attracted to men, which I had never been attracted to men before. So I was like, okay, this is so weird. I literally became like homophobic to myself as I was like, I can not be gay. And I was like, he was a gay woman. I'm like, I'm not going to be a gay man. So I just remember it was so difficult because I was trying to put myself into these spaces and they did not want me at all. They are so mean and horrible, but I just kept coming back very gently coming back and never pushing myself. Always just being here I am until today. Now I'm just like, I'm in the gay man world. And people are so cold, man. 1 (1h 7m 58s): It's never an issue. So that's what I say for trans women. I think they are pushing too hard on women. And they are not saying, wait a minute, how do we come into this space? Because I have tons of trans women, friends who literally look like you, you are gorgeous, beautiful, amazing women who pass. And that this was the argument of people are having, is like, they just don't want some dude saying I'm a woman coming into a space and looking like me. I understand that. We should all understand that. It doesn't mean that you're trans phobic. It means that your people go by vision. You know, I don't get mis-gendered because I look like a dude. And so you're going to get mis-gendered if you say you're a man, but you'll look like a lady or your a man and you look like, you know, it's just the reality of the thing. 1 (1h 8m 39s): And I don't know why people are getting so mad about that. It's an actual thing that people need to be visually seeing things with that, 0 (1h 8m 46s): The pollution, it just has to happen and it's not, and it's not again, a place of hatred, right? Like you can be like, Oh, well actually, no, this is, you know, how I identify. And then most people, and everyone's going to argue, but I truly believe most people would be like, Oh, I'm so sorry. What would you know? And then they'll correct. Most people are not going to just pick a fight and be mean to a complete stranger. And I mean, again, I live in the South and it's not going to be like that here. Even people who are very 1 (1h 9m 12s): Louisiana for 10 years for it for four years, Louisiana is believe me, it was chilled there, nobody cared. And when I was just like, yeah, I do. And that's why I have a beer. It's awesome there. So we know all those misconceptions again, right? The misconception or on the South is a misconception that all of you are a lot like this, a misconception that trans people are all like that. I mean, we have the misconception that that's why I'm always back to individuality. The trans community is not individual anymore. It's like become this one entity. And it's like, no, we're different. We are literally individuals first that build a community and the people are missing that step of individuality. 0 (1h 9m 47s): So if you had one message for like the SJWs of the world, what would it be? 1 (1h 9m 56s): I know what I would say. Okay. One message to them would be this, listen, have conversation, have dialogue. We might not at all agree on it, but let's move forward and create the spaces. We need to create it in a world without a tacky age on their conversation. 0 (1h 10m 18s): That's beautiful. And they just attack us because 1 (1h 10m 21s): Fear and all kinds of things, but no one has conversations. So we have conversation and we can figure out how to get out of this. 0 (1h 10m 26s): So it's how you solve everything and truly believe it. Excellent. Well, thank you so much for joining the podcast. Can you tell the listeners where they can learn more about you follow you, support you? Okay. Sure. 1 (1h 10m 38s): Thanks so much. My friend. So Twitter, if you want to really get into it, which is Buck, Angel, Instagram is more of my like heartfelt stories and like my crazy stoner time I do on there. And that's Buck Angel and then I have official Buck Angel on Facebook, but I don't use Facebook that much because I kind of find that to be a huge shit show Buck angel.com and also anyone out there who has any questions reach out to me, I'm super accessible and I really love to talk to people and educate people. 0 (1h 11m 3s): Awesome. Well, thanks again. We have to do this again. I would love that. 1 (1h 11m 7s): Yeah. And then my friend. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Cindy. You love that's it for week's episode. 0 (1h 11m 14s): I hope you enjoyed it. If you have the time, please rate and review and you can always hit subscribe to stay up to date with our latest episodes. I hope to have you back 2 (1h 11m 24s): <inaudible>.