Keisha Grey is a highly acclaimed former adult star with more than 1.5 million fans on Instagram. Her meteoric rise to become one of the most sought-after actresses in the industry was not without a few hiccups, though. First, Keisha battled addiction, and her fall from grace led to a short stint at Dunkin Donuts. Nonetheless, her determination to kick out the habit and subsequent journey to sobriety is a story of perseverance, gratitude, and love. Interestingly, Keisha is our most requested guest, and she talks about her exit from mainstream shooting, finding love, and why porn is an art.
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0 (0s): Okay. Even with Twitter. Cause like there is some, I see some stuff on there and I'm like, I can't believe that this is a loud and again, like, I'm all about like, if you want to post is your page, do what you want with it. A certain stuff like that. Shouldn't be available for everyone to just scroll past. Like, do you see like really intense, like gay beings job for a pro prolapse prolapsing health for a pea to your colon, babe. Call the doctor. Are you okay? Jeez. Yeah, that was gross. Yeah. Are you okay? Is there are a little girl like 18? I'm not laughing. It's just like sad. 0 (42s): It makes me really sad again, 21 and up like this little girl have braces and like, I don't think that kind of porn either, but that's when you start getting into, well, now all porn's illegal, but I would never shoot that kind of stuff because it's, 1 (1m 2s): You know, who's watching it and I just don't agree with that. Hello everybody. And thank you for tuning into Chatting with Candice. I'm your host Candace. We're back before we get started on this week's episode, if you want to Support podcast, you can go to Chatting with Candice dot com. From there, you can click that link that says, buy me coffee, or you can sign up for our patriotic account, which has a really spicy bonus episode coming to you this month with a professional dominatrix. If you want to catch that, the only place to catch it is on my patriotic house. 1 (1m 42s): So again, that's Chatting with Candice dot and this week I would like to give a special shout out to Darren. Darren, thank you so much for buying me five cups of coffee. That was very, very generous of you. And I'd would also like to give a shout out to Sean. Thank you, Sean knows on my patriotic out and we really appreciate you subscribing. It really means the world to me, I'm to support this new project of mine. So last bit of a housekeeping before we jump into the good staff and we are sponsored by a Mariah. So a Mara has a really high quality CVD. They use a heat kno earn technology to, to keep the integrity of the flower, which was really, really cool. 1 (2m 24s): And I actually wanted to show you what it kind of looks like. So we get these little packs you should pick which kind of stuff, but like, and then when you open it, I really struggled with this last time I have to be smarter than the box. Is that where are you? Start on a budget is a beautiful packaging, but they are premeasured a little rules of CBD flower that you just stick into the cartridge. And then you get to a little, a little profile here so we can see the chemical makeup of the PD, the tasting notes, which was really neat. It's kind of like if you we're going to a wine tasting. So if you go to a marae.com and that's O M a U R a a and use code Candice, you can get 15% off. 1 (3m 10s): So go check that out. 0 (3m 12s): So without further ado, this is my most 1 (3m 15s): Requested guest. As of late, please help me welcome Keisha Grey. So 0 (3m 22s): You were the most requested guest, which is so awesome and so crazy because we haven't seen each other. 2 (3m 29s): Yeah. And so long. So it's been like four years, five years. 0 (3m 33s): Four or five? Yeah. Yeah. And you were one of 2 (3m 35s): The last people I worked with. Really cool. I feel, I feel very privileged. Okay. 0 (3m 42s): Me too. Cause you, you don't do mainstream anymore at all. 2 (3m 46s): No, no. Yeah. So what have you been up to just shooting a lot of content from my only fans I've been playing my music a lot. I play the cello in the bass guitar and I dunno, kind of just live in life, doing my thing. Just working really hard though. I'm getting my content out, you know, is it hard transitioning to being like a self producer, not having someone tell you exactly when to shoot what to shoot and went to release. It is so, so hard for me because I'm the type of person that like, I will get distracted so easily. So if you're not, Hey, cut are like, Hey, let's go. 2 (4m 27s): If you're not doing that, I am way far away. So it's like really hard for me to just, but once I'm like very interested in what I'm shooting and like very involved, then it's really simple. Yeah. For me to, I have to have like a really rigid schedule, laid out to make sure I'm getting everything completed when its supposed to. And then I tend to let her know, 0 (4m 50s): Pile up, get riddled with anxiety. And then 2 (4m 52s): I have to like over, over work essentially force that's the worst feeling. And then you're like, you have a lot of stress. 0 (5m 1s): I think. So going way, 2 (5m 3s): Way back to when you first got into the industry, I feel like we were both on what was that? It was like reality Kings or bang bros. And we were saying at the same hotel 0 (5m 14s): Fall and we were waiting on that a lot every time. I think of you. I think of that moment. 2 (5m 21s): Yes. Because like I was so nervous, so naive, like brand new and I was just like, Oh my God, that girl is so pretty. I didn't even think I was just like, maybe 0 (5m 32s): Because we didn't talk. We just sat across from each other on a sofa on our phones. And then we realized when the same band, but what's happened in the King. That's too funny. Was that, what are your first scenes that day or the first scene nappy. 2 (5m 48s): It was like the first month of one of the shooting. So we can tell from the hair. 0 (5m 52s): Okay. You can always tell from, from how you're put together and the beginning and you hope that This photos don't resurface, we were talking about that currently. 2 (6m 0s): Exactly. How do we let 0 (6m 2s): Someone put makeup on us like that or that one? 2 (6m 5s): I know it's like, Oh, so am I look back? And I'm like, dude, I looked so young and you made me look like I'm 40. What does that? But I don't know 0 (6m 16s): Is kind of a blessing now though. So people think that you just don't age and it's like, I just figured out how to take care of my skin and put on less makeup. 2 (6m 24s): That's a really good way to look at it. Right. Yeah. 0 (6m 28s): Hmm. Yeah. That first set or that first exchange with you is like, Oh, she's so quiet. She seems really nice. And I remember because it was like a week that we were both there. Right. And we would just like bang out scenes. The thing that I, so I'm like super shy if I don't know anyone. And that's probably why I didn't really talk to you that whole week that we we're like the same dressing rooms and we shot together. So I always like kind of pay attention and just ease, drop a little bit and just like, see how people interact. And I remember someone was like trying to get you to wear something stupid, like more stupid than usual. And it was just wasn't flattering for you. And you kind of like told them no, like you're just like, I'm not wearing that. 0 (7m 11s): Something like that. You were a, you know, like the three are the three mirrors that you'd stand on it, that you were up there. And I remember you, like just saying like, I'm not doing that or I want to do where something else. And I was like, I, you don't see that very often. And the makeup artist was like, she won't last long with that attitude. And I was just like, okay, we'll see. And cause that's very much my personality and I don't know if you've heard it, but like I have the reputation of being like a really difficult to work with in a diva. Not very like you also and like to other people that have like told me that or like admitted that you've heard it. And everyone's like, I don't know. You're talking about was like, I know that this was a rumor and it's because you say no to certain things. 0 (7m 51s): So I like really respected that. 2 (7m 53s): It's really like, it's really gross to me to see women. Like we're in this industry, we are doing a vulnerable thing. You know what I mean? We already very vulnerable. You're going to tell me that I'm going to have to look like This know. And then, because I don't want to do that. And I don't want to look that way. I don't feel comfortable wearing that. Girls are like, Oh, it's not that that I'm better. I'm going to talk shit. It's like, come on. You know, it's so gross to me. Like I got your back, you know, it's so 0 (8m 30s): Yeah. And it's out there forever to write. So it's, it's kind of important. You want to feel good about it. The body of work that you leave behind, especially when you decide to leave mainstream. 2 (8m 39s): I didn't even think of that at the time. I had no idea of anything at the time. Like all of what I'm thinking right now is from the years of doing this. So it's like, I probably didn't want to wear it because it was just ugly or something. I don't know. Now it's like, people want you to do a certain act and it's like, if you don't take three and you know, 0 (9m 5s): Then you're a diva, then you're not a serious performer. Okay. You're clearly in the wrong line of work because you have limits or you're remaining true to yourself. That was the thing. So for me, I always kind of did what I call pretty porn. Like I never did anything to an extreme. Yeah. It was just, that's just how I like to engage in sexuality in my real life. I never wanted to do anything that I wasn't actually interested in because I've seen that effect on other girls and I'm sure you have as well. So that was like very, that was a very important principle when I was shooting. And then you would have these other girls that, you know, do not like a lot of the stuff they're doing. There's a, I'm sorry, like you can have your Kings. 0 (9m 46s): I don't judge that at all. Like whatever you're actually into, but certain things are border lining on like being unsafe, but they're doing it just for like that title of the most extreme. And then they look down on people that are doing that. And I just think that sets a bad precedent for new girls coming in. 2 (10m 3s): It does it it's bad for the new girls. Cause they feel like they're going to have to do all of that. It's straight up circus acts like it's and then the consumers are obviously wanting more and more and more and think that people actually like most people actually do this in their bedrooms. Like they actually take porn as an educational thing is so weird to me. But I mean, I'm I've, I did porn, so it's different. 0 (10m 36s): I like that. So when it comes to, I guess, kids and younger people watching porn, do you think that part of that is a paywall problem? Or do you think part of it is like parents not talking about sex that the proper time with their kids, so then their left to figure it out on their own? Or is it a combination of things? 2 (10m 56s): I would probably say probably lack of talking. Cause my parents didn't tell me anything about sex. I found out in third grade from some guy and then boy, not a guy. And then I don't know. I started like looking into like books, not porn, but like educational stuff. And then I found something on my brother's computer when I was like 14 and I was like, Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. So that's how I discovered it. But I feel like if you talk to your kids and like let them know and be like, Hey, you know, hitting people in porn is actually not cool. It's not okay. And it's not a thing, you know what I mean? 2 (11m 37s): Parents need to like educate them on the actual biological part of it and then talk to them on like, I dunno people how weird they can be. And also like, I don't know, just do you know what I mean? 0 (11m 52s): Right. Like everyone can have kink, but you have to make sure that it's consensual and like this isn't a typical sex. Like I think we with film, cause obviously it's entertainment, you have to do something. That's like a little bit of that shock value. And like if people were to record me with my husband, be very poor and be like, no one has sex like that. Everyone has sex like that. Right. It just doesn't sell. So you have to kind of explain to them, this is a bumped up for entertainment. And I think a lot of people just don't want to even mention porn to their, you know, their high school kids or whatever, you know, to just pretend it doesn't exist. And unfortunately with so much stuff being free, you kind of have to because it's just a readily available. 2 (12m 36s): Yeah. That, I mean, it never used to get to me, but like these days when I'm making my own content tube sites and like the thought of having my own kids and like, like just tube sites and the stuff on like, Oh, I just can't I don't sorry. No, you're fine. It's just like, go ahead. Sorry. 0 (12m 58s): So I was gonna say I'm really like selective as to who I, I have on, especially when it comes to industry people in for a while. I didn't have anybody on, because I, I didn't want to be put in a box of like a porn podcast because it was not what it is. I want to have people on that have interesting stories. And when I do have porn girls on our porch and guys on, I want to show like the depth of their humanity, right? Like a lot of times we get judged so critically for this decision that we've made and you don't know that person or their backstory. Yes. There are plenty of dumb bimbos in the industry, right. That exists. But there's also some really intelligent people, some really cool creative people. And they're not, I don't th I think it's reckless to kind of throw us off in the same bucket and it's not fair. 0 (13m 43s): So I want to have people on that I respect. And then I think are like doing some good shit, right? Like doing something more than just trying to make money. So when I said like, you're my most requested person, I was actually really excited because you use your platforms for things other than just, Hey, check out my website or Hey, follow my only fans, whatever. And is, you know, just turn and burn customers. You're like, these are important topics I want to talk about. And what really caught my eye is you were doing a lot of advocacy for child trafficking. And at the same time I had the CEO of the child rescue coalition came on and then one of our really good friends, I know it was really cool. And it was really a donate so much money to them. 0 (14m 24s): They're an amazing organization. And yeah, it's one of the first episodes they did. And then one of our really good friends runs operation rescue children. So he works with underground railroad and Tony Robbins and that, and he basically trains these really bad-ass men and women to go save these kids. And he's done the missions and yeah, it's really, really important work. So at the same time that I was doing a lot of stuff with them and to not having these conversations in donating whatever you are doing this. So I was like, that's so cool to see someone giving back in the ways that you can, you don't see that often because a lot of people don't want to be controversial, which to me is crazy because what's controversial about saving children, but we talked earlier and you were saying, you're you lose followers over it. 0 (15m 10s): And if you compare our followers to other people who don't really get personal, there's a really big difference. So yeah, I guess what got you into that specifically and what was it a conscious decision to start advocating for it? Or you just feel like you had to, 2 (15m 28s): Okay. Okay. So I read this article, I read this article about this little girl and she looked normal. Obviously she just looked like a little girl and she was getting passed from one guy to a different one. And it was like an uncle to a dad and it was trafficking. And that broke my heart because like it's happening right in front of you. And just the statistics of it just drove me crazy. So I'm like, I ha you know, I have to like tell people, people around you are involved. 2 (16m 9s): Do you know what I mean? It's like, I don't know. That's a, that's what I wanted to get out. 0 (16m 14s): It was just really tugged at your heart strings. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I got into a lot of research holes during 2020 because they just spent a lot of attention on trafficking in general, during the campaigning I'm in the statistics are really scary and the content out there is really scary. So I think it's awesome that you're doing your part to 2 (16m 35s): Try to help think really 0 (16m 37s): Noble cause. Thanks. And then you're also very open about like your sobriety and then your issues in the while, I guess you were shooting right during the, I guess the, the down parts. Do you want to kind of get into that a little bit? Okay. I actually never knew that you struggled with any of that. The only time I had heard we were getting ready for AVN and I think another performer, it was, I'm not going to give her credit, but there was another performer that was kind of washed up and she just started coming at you. And she said, go take some more pills or something. Yeah. And I was like, Oh, I didn't even know that you were struggling. And then how shitty of this person to say that 2 (17m 20s): I was four months out of my first treatment center when she said that to me. Oh, wow. And I had relapsed. So I was just like, Oh, cool. Thank you. I will. But I did it, but it's just like nasty. I don't know. Yeah. So 0 (17m 37s): Was that an issue before you got in to shooting or was it, yeah. 2 (17m 42s): Yeah. So my dad has the addict gene and I have two brothers and a sister. I'm the only one who got it. So it started when I was 14 and I drank my first shot of vodka and I liked it and I kept drinking and it made me feel really good. 'cause, I'd always felt like super different from everyone. Like I can't relate to you, you know what I mean? And it made me feel good. Like, Hey, look at me to talk to me, you know? And then it just kept progressing to the point. I, I was 15 on the floor of my school bathroom because of Xanax. 2 (18m 24s): Wow. It turned into that and then it would stop, you know, it would be just sporadic, stuff like that. And I would drink like a normal high school kid and then it got super dark, like 2012. I started using a lot and prescription pills were my thing and I would use alcohol to accentuate. That's not the right word, the feeling of it. So it got it just like I was numbing something obviously sad. And when it's also, when I think about me as a little girl and I wish I could go back and be like, Hey, you know? 2 (19m 8s): And so when I think about that, I think about like how vulnerable I was. And like, that's also a thing for the children thing. Like I keep rambling in a different topics, but yeah, the, the whole thing of like being like having trauma as a child usually is a cause for addiction. I didn't have any trauma. I don't think, I think I was just weird, but yeah, alcohol made me feel normal and then it filled a hole. Once I started porn, my relationship ended obviously, and I felt very alone. 2 (19m 55s): So yeah. Obviously drinking anything that I could get my hands on at that point, but yeah. Okay. 0 (20m 3s): Yeah. I think it's, it's really cool that you've been really transparent with it because I think it does help other people relate and they can feel like they are not alone. And I think a lot of people also avoid it because no one ever wants to put on a bad name. Right. Like they're like, this is a perfect industry. Everyone's happy and everyone's treated well. And I always say, if we were more honest about the shit, as well as everything, that's great and empowering and all of the positive sides of it, then I think the rest of society would look at us with a lot more respect, but they just know that there is more than what a lot of people are saying. So I think it's cool that you you've shared your experience with, you know, your ups in your life. 2 (20m 44s): Okay. You also, so when you were 0 (20m 49s): Shooting mainstream, you did have a long-term relationship. What was that like? 2 (20m 57s): It's so weird. It's so weird because I'm out here having sex with all these dudes. Right. But to me it doesn't mean anything, you know, but I think that he thinks it means something when he was having sex with all these girls. Okay. So it was very hard for me. I got over it kind of like, I was just like, Oh, he's going to work. But there was one girl I'm not jealous because jealous means that I want something. You have I'm territorial. And this one girl I was jealous of. So I was like, okay, no, no. And I freaked out. So I don't recommend it like dating another performer. 0 (21m 42s): We got to be. So for me, I always lived on the East coast and then I would go out and I would stay for like two to three sometimes for weeks at a time shoe. And then I would come home for a long period of time and like detox and then go back. And I feel like if you don't get that break, you can so easily just get sucked in to this false reality. That's the industry, right? Like when you say the industry, it's not just shooting. It's like who you're friends are, who you're relationships are with where you are going out, where are you eating? It's all like for Instagram essentially. And you think that all of this is real. And then when shit hits the fan, if something serious happens, like maybe you're having strep like struggles with addiction, or maybe like a family member dies, whatever it is, all these people are just scatter. 0 (22m 27s): And no one is actually there right now. And you're like, what have I been investing my time, energy and, you know, love and care. 2 (22m 35s): That happened to me. Like that happened to me. My ex broke up with me over FaceTime, in an elevator with full of people. No way. Yeah. Yeah. So M that I was already like in a super, super depressed on the verge of using again, I stopped because I wanted to stay in that relationship. I started again, cause it ended so right when that ended, I O deed and I flat-lined in LA and I had nobody, my mom had to come out. Wow. So it gets heavy. 2 (23m 15s): And like, these people are like, we're not my friends. Like, yeah. We looked great together shooting, but like, nah, my real friends are like out there. You know what I mean? 0 (23m 28s): That's a really intense, so who felt like who found you? 2 (23m 32s): Okay. Cause that's Abella Abella danger. I found me. Wow. It was actually, I don't know if you want me to go into it because it's actually like a verbal with a huge thing. I took a Xanax laced with fentanyl. Oh wow. I'm so freaking lucky. I'm like blessed. Like something seriously wants me here. Cause I have, flat-lined like three times. Wow. You guys got goosebumps. I know. I'm like, that's why I'm like, so I don't know. 0 (24m 4s): So when that happened, did you have any crazy, like after death or a near death experiences? 2 (24m 13s): Yeah, for a little while after that, it took me a long time to get clean after that. And before I got clean, I was like dancing with the idea of death, you know, I was like, Oh, I was peaceful. I didn't feel anything. When I lined, I hate, I hate that because like, I am so blessed and I love my life today. But like back then it was just so dark, you know? Yeah. I forgot what I was talking about. I was wondering. 0 (24m 48s): Okay. Have you had, like if you had seen the light that people talk about, no. You just, there's no light. 2 (24m 57s): Okay. What I read is that when body dies, the soul takes a while to come out. That's why I might have not seen the light or whatever. And the soul is like dancing around with you until they decided to do their own thing. That's what, like, I was taught as a kid. Okay. But I think that's why, like I saw a dark, everyone's like, Oh no, you see a light that I'm like, Oh really? But there was nothing. Oh, that's a bummer. But it's hopeful because what I just said, like, you can't be peaceful. Go to it. 2 (25m 37s): Yeah. It might be something different, like another life, you know? Yeah. 0 (25m 41s): Wow. That is, that's really fricking scary. And your poor mom. 2 (25m 46s): Yeah. I, yeah. And my mom had already gone through that. The main reason I started using again in 2012 is because my dad tried to kill himself and he, and that now gives me a lot of like stuff. Like when I'm, when I'm feeling down and I'm like, cause I have, I struggle with depression and all that good stuff. And sometimes the thoughts pass by and I'm just like, what? Like you would, you would even have that thought cross your mind when he did that to you. And like, you want to do that to your family. 2 (26m 27s): So like I have such a, I have such an appreciation for life now. Like I felt how low it can be, you know, but I felt how freaking high it can be. And I'd rather have that than no human experience at all. You know? 0 (26m 47s): So the process of you getting clean, what helped you the most? 2 (26m 59s): Probably like the, the look on my dad's face. I went back home for Christmas in 2017 and he opened the door and he, he didn't recognize me. Oh my God. Cause I was like 90 pounds and bad, which was really bad. So like every time I thought of that, I was just like, I want to, like, I want to be healthy. I want, I want to be proud of myself. And I want my family to be proud of me too. So I want to fucking do this. So I got clean, but I relapsed, you know, it happens, but I didn't like the relapse. 2 (27m 39s): Cause I had that head full of like, Oh, you're clean, you have a better things to do all this. I have that full head of that. And I just ruined it by getting, you know, messed up. So, 0 (27m 51s): And when that happens, is it, is that like something triggers that or is it just like a self control thing in that moment? I'm sure I'm like over simplifying it. 2 (28m 2s): It is so hard to explain like the thought that crosses your mind before you relapsed. It is so hard to explain. It's like, it's like literally talking to you, it's like, you are about to do it. And he'll be like, nah, no, should I do it? Yeah, I should do it. And you do it. It's like you, you have that one voice of no, but then at the rest of her powers, you know, it's like really bad, but it feels not good. 0 (28m 32s): Yeah. It's tough. So there's this like doctor consciousness, expert guy that he has this thing called Biocybernaut and I'm obsessed with it. I should say it absolutely changed my life. And I think every single human needs to go, at least once in their life. It's very, he's going to get mad at me for saying this it's very expensive for the average person, but I've heard of, I mean, I've gone twice. My husband's gone twice. The second time we went separate. So the lady that was in his training was beyond poor, like five or six people lived with her and like a Shaq and in Hawaii and her, the only reason she could afford it was that her mother had just died and the money got split between her and her siblings and whatever she got from that will she spent on the training. 0 (29m 25s): So there's absolutely no excuse financially from anyone that you can scrape up the money over time. So again, I think everyone should do it. So essentially what it is, it's brainwave training and they teach you how to consciously alter your brainwaves. It's the thing in the world and it's super scifi, but it's a real life. And it has real-world applic like applications uses and it gets rid of anxiety, depression, drug abuse, like whatever you're going through it we'll find it. And whatever you go for, you're in unpack so much of your life. I didn't even know this was something I had to work on and I'm so glad I'm here. So what he explains is when you kind of have those, that voice, it's ha it's having to identify what's you like the real you and what's your ego and the ego is not you. 0 (30m 16s): Right? It's every human has one and you have one until you die. And it's a matter of being able to distinguish the difference because sometimes the ego tries to take the wheel and say, no, this is you making these decisions. So he draws a picture and he's like, imagine you're watching a screen and everything is a beautiful HD, 4k, whatever your ego's over here on the corner with the projection bootleg version. And he's putting it over your image and he's trying to confuse you to see that reality. And then that's not your actual reality. So you have to ask yourself if it's basically coming from a place of love and light. So if it's anything that is, I guess like mean-spirited or if you've are feeling like forgetful tired, he is going to, I can't believe, I don't remember the five hindrances. 0 (31m 5s): Forgetfulness is one of them. So for example, in this being tired, I want to find it and I'll put that perfect in the intro and I'll text it to you, but it's like a really easy way to identify what's you and what's not you in those moments, but hook it up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you have some free time and you want to watch some like crazy promo videos, definitely check out. Yeah. It's neat stuff. That sounds awesome. Yeah. I, I have never had any addiction issues, but I've definitely had like rage issues and those are very unhealthy to have. And it, I truly think it's why I got sick. So I have graves' disease, which is an autoimmune disorder. 0 (31m 46s): So it's a hyperactive thyroid. And then your body's essentially attacking your thyroid all the time. A PCO S which is another autoimmune issue. And then they have endometriosis. I like a triple whammy going on. And when I got really, really sick with the graves, it was probably at my angriest. And the kicker is, is that Grey was actually makes you angry. They haven't been called graves' rage. There's a name for it. So if you wouldn't like look up these blogs and I did so much research in the beginning. So I was just trying to figure out what was happening to my body. And my mind, especially women have like tried to run over their husbands and like beyond violent acts. And the husband's like, this is very out of character for her. 0 (32m 28s): She would never do this. And all of a sudden she turned into this maniac and it was because they were experienced grave graves' rage. So on top of my regular anger issues, I had that to bump it up a notch. So my husband kind of tricked me into going to the training. He was like, if we go, you are just, it's going to improve your income, which, you know, that's how they market it for some of the corporate people. And it'll boost your IQ by 12 points and your EEQ by 15 points, all of these real world things. So I was like, yeah, I'm going to crush it with work that make all the money. And then we show up and it's a lot of forgiveness work because that's, what is what increases alpha is the act of forgiving, like truly forgiving, like no longer having that visceral reaction, like your chest, getting tight, your stomach dropping. 0 (33m 14s): When you think of someone that's done something shitty to you, hot and be like, I'm not forgiving that person that you don't understand that they did to me is like, you're going to be forgiven by the end, the week. And every day I would wake up and I'm not going back. And Eric's like, you're going pack. I'm like, I'm fucking not going back. This is, this is all a scam because you just don't want you to see your ego, trying to prevent you from having like this really important breakthrough. But yeah, it was the most important thing I decided to actually complete. 2 (33m 47s): Okay. That sounds like really, 0 (33m 50s): Really helpful. I know for life, for everybody. And then everyone, like I have people that are going through some stuff and I suggest it and it's not okay. 2 (33m 60s): Okay. And I get it because it's not easy. Yeah. I mean, I would do it. I've already done so much work on myself like the past, how long it's been like three years that I've tried to like remain clean. That's great. That's been super like, like I have never felt so sad before sometimes, but I've never felt so hopeful and excited and grateful and like, it's just so good at it. 0 (34m 32s): Okay. Do you, do you like a gratitude list 2 (34m 36s): Every morning? I write 10 things every single morning. Yeah. And then I also do the same thing if I'm ever like, feeling bad about myself or whatever, where I write as if I'm already where I want to be, you know, the person I want to be where I want to be. I write as if I'm already there. It helps me a lot. 0 (34m 56s): Okay. So another cool trick. I just learned this when I was doing my second training. If you journal in the third person, it's actually a supposed to help with manifestation. Huh? So if you were like, Keisha just fell ass backwards into a million dollars, whatever it is. So if you start writing in that way, it's supposed to help you manifest and then for manifesting that from you. Well, yeah. Put it all out there for you. So we were talking earlier about stalkers. I know. And I bring this up because I think it's really important for people to understand what you go through. 0 (35m 40s): As I people blame it because we did porn, but I've talked to mainstream people that also have the, the same issues. Right? If you look up Kylie Jenner, she's had stalkers and Miley Cyrus, they've all had stalkers. So it's, once you become a public public figure. And I don't think that they realize like how far it can go. I've had full-blown manifestos shipped to my house. I still have them in case anything crazy happens. Do you think I'm a huge believer in free speech? I think that that needs to be as open as possible because once you start kind of tapering in his, all of a sudden, like you're super censored, but do you think that sort of thing needs to be regulated or do you see any solutions? 0 (36m 26s): So when some of the cyber stalking cyber-stalking or doxing all of these things that happen daily for some people. Okay. 2 (36m 33s): So for me, I know that when I see this dude that stalking me, make another account and I see a, Hey, I'm coming to Tampa. I almost fall into the ground. You know, I feel like porn stars need just as much protection as normal stars. It's really, they don't see how bad it can get. Like I've had a friend who a guy went into her apartment, you know what I mean? It can get to that point. And it's like, authorities don't really care. You know, they don't, I mean, some probably do, but they don't really take it seriously. And some are like, Oh, well too bad. She shouldn't have done porn, but it's like, it's not that it's not, the reason is so bad too. 2 (37m 18s): It's like, 0 (37m 20s): It's really difficult because, so I've actually, I had a dad cop and cobs in my family and friends. So I was like, try to text some of them to see what they would suggest over the holidays. I had somebody that was calling me nonstop and send an officer to do a wellness check on me. So they went to an old address because they thought that the one that they found online was accurate and it wasn't. So the cops found my new address came here and it was Christmas evening. And he's like, I just, I had to do a wellness check so-and-so called. And it was like, can you not let him know that you found me or where you found me? 0 (38m 3s): Because I don't know this person. And the officer was super kind. And he was like, I understand you I'll make sure that I keep all of this private, but there's not really a lot that we can do. Just make sure you're keeping track of the phone calls and the texts. And I think that there should be some kind of way that if you can provide proof on social media, that they should be able to find the IP address and just block the person from using the service. 2 (38m 26s): Yeah. I think it's just really difficult. Cause like they will delete the account like immediately so that they can't be tracked. It's like, 0 (38m 38s): There's gotta be a record of it though. You would imagine. 2 (38m 40s): I mean, I try, like I try to take screenshots, but they delete it so fast they'll it's so like gets to me man. And like, I know like probably Angelina Jolie and like all these other people are like, okay, whatever. But like, I don't know, for me, I'm not used to this shit. So it's like extremely terrible. 0 (38m 59s): Well, they have like paid security as well. I'm sure 2 (39m 2s): That's true. That's true. Very different. 0 (39m 4s): So that helps you sleep at night. 2 (39m 8s): Not me. You got to get you a really big dog. Yeah, I know. But I have a drone that's like Drogo. Yeah. 0 (39m 13s): We can go one LinkedIn. Yeah. So cute. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. They're knuckleheads, but they have serious barks. So that makes me feel really lazy. I used to, I used to travel with Drago all the time when I was doing my LA trips. Cause it made me feel better when I was staying at Airbnbs because I would stay downtown that spring and stuff that I didn't no, I was like, this is cute. There's restaurants everywhere. It's a great price. It's a great price for reason. And I didn't piece that together until I was already down there. So I was like, I'm bringing the two 2 (39m 46s): Next time. Yeah. Dang. It's scary down there. Where did you live when you were shooting? I lived in North Hollywood. Oh you did? But I spent a lot of time in Hollywood with Carly M we were pretty much, we were always together, but like North Hollywood was my spot. 0 (40m 6s): Did it help having a buddy? I've never really got to do that. I was trying to like a friend. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 2 (40m 13s): But I mean, you don't, I don't know, like from that experience, I don't know who to trust. You know what I mean? Like having a buddy is cool and all, but things can happen and like, you know, it just can turn really bad, not with Carly, but I'm talking about with other people, other people, but yeah, Carly helped a lot, so much. I would be depressed, but I will be depressed with her. So it was really cool. And then I brought my cat to LA. So she helped. 0 (40m 55s): Do you think? So I never really paid attention to it on a deeper level, but you know how they have all the competitions all the time and they kind of pit the girls against one another. 2 (41m 5s): So when I was at first, the tweets that are like 0 (41m 8s): The verb, those things, but also the companies when I was shooting with, well first even DP challenge, right. That alone was getting girls 2 (41m 16s): Against each other for this super amazing 0 (41m 18s): Contract. And then after that, when you win, I had, they made me start a Twitter fight with PETA on, or it's a safe to it. Right. Peter Petta PETA, PETA. Yeah. And she had her contract with browsers and they were getting us to do Twitter fight. And then I was like, just being funny. And then she got serious that I got serious. And I was like, why are you doing this? And then I'd before I knew it, I was starting a fight with someone I didn't even know. Yeah. This is insane. And it becomes a really competitive, so I feel like that's the big reason why there's not a lot, a lot of successful relationships in the industry. 2 (41m 55s): It is all a competition. Like, I mean, I could get really into that by like girls being competitive because of like where we come from as human beings, you know, fighting for it. But I don't know. I think that I have better friends outside the industry, even though they can't relate to some of the things that I go through. I don't want them to, you know, like I don't, I don't know it's different. 0 (42m 25s): I think that's one of the great things about only fans and not getting so popular is that it's showing that they're like, resources are abundant. We don't have to compete. Everyone can crush it. And you actually benefit when you work together and collaborate. So, and I think it also shows you your worth, like more than when you are shooting mainstream, at least for me, I would get called like, you're like, what was the, what was the word I was going to use basically like that I was very egotistical because of my rates. And then I must of had like a self inflated value of myself. And it wasn't that much considering how much they splice it up. 0 (43m 6s): And that one thing that you shoot and you get that one day's pay is turned into 22 plus things and sold over and over and over again. I was like, I feel like this is, I'm still not getting paid enough, but this is just what I think you can pay me. And so when you start doing stuff like only fans or Snapchat or your own pay site or whatever it is, you're like, Holy cow, this is what I'm worth. Yeah. 2 (43m 31s): Actually I was just going to say something, Oh, I don't like mainstream actually anymore because they put my real name on a box cover. 0 (43m 42s): No way. How did that happen? 2 (43m 47s): Either people really hate me because I have burnt a lot of bridges or there's some really incompetent people that need to be fired immediately. Can you tell me 0 (43m 59s): The company or know it was, 2 (44m 3s): I think it was, I don't know, but it got onto adult DVD empire, so 0 (44m 8s): Okay. And then by then, it's too late to even do anything about, so Holy cow, I don't even know how they get the names of some people. Like when my name got released, it was like, who in high school is out there doxing me because you didn't like me. Cause that's what it had to have been. There was no one else that would have been like, Oh, I know Her. I didn't know anyone in the industry, but it got out. And I remember we went at first, got out mortified and is like, I'm going to get murdered in my bed. And now I've kind of owned it. Cause obviously I do the podcast in my real name. But the moment it happens when it's not under your control, it's really scary. 2 (44m 46s): My thing is when they get super invasive and try and contact your family <inaudible> that is like that. I will get very serious if anyone comes towards my family, but I was gonna say, 0 (45m 7s): What was I going to say? I do that all the time. Golden. I like gold. Like your eyes and your hair and your skin livings. Yeah. My eyes change the color. What's really funny. So they say, when you reach certain levels of consciousness of your eyes can change. So true story. I used to have almost like black eyes. They were very dark, dark, dark Brown up until the point that I was 19 or maybe 20. And then I had decided to leave a long-term relationship that wasn't that great for me. And I started to try to find the more authentic version of myself and I kid you not, my eyes went from that dark, dark, dark Brown color to Hazel, like overnight. 0 (45m 52s): And I was like, what happened to my eyes? So I was Googling everything. So I want to make sure that nothing weird was happening. And then my mom came to visit and she's like, why are you wearing contacts? No, these are my eyes. And my sister's like, those are the contacts. I'm like, these are my eyes. So even my family members were like, what happened to your eyes? And I'm convinced it was because I had made a really good decision with my life. That's probably true. Cause you know how angry people get like black eyes probably is true. There was just a lot of anger in a young Candice, but now they change anywhere from like gold to dark Brown, to green. Same. And it's funny because Eric is like, when they get really dark Brown and you're mad and I just let you do your thing. 0 (46m 36s): And then green usually means that I'm like feisty or I want to have sex. And then gold is a really good place. 2 (46m 43s): Yeah. I, when I'm in the sun, my eyes look really golden and my best friend said that it looks like melted honey. 0 (46m 54s): Oh, that sounds beautiful. Is we were talking about honey earlier. Yeah. I still think you need to make that honey video. Yeah. I think you need to do it. Cause you're a goal. It would match you. Perfect. I know I was supposed to do it was somebody and then they decided to not fill me anymore. Mr Carl's Jr. But he would have been, sorry. I forgot. Yeah, that would have been so dope. I, that definitely think you should do it though. I think when you incorporate food and a hot girl, it's just really erotic for some reason, 2 (47m 26s): Honey and cherries. <inaudible> 0 (47m 30s): I feel bad for whoever is cleaning it up, but it'll be so worth it for me. Just power wash it. It's fine. It's all for the art. Yeah. 2 (47m 37s): Yup. It's all for the arts. Oh, in the name of art. So 0 (47m 40s): Do you think porn is art or 2 (47m 43s): Can it be art? It can be art. Just like anything like this can be art. Like if you take a really cool lit photo of it or it can be garbage. So you can like make some really shit product or are you getting like do something so beautifully where you get like every shot that you thought in your head? Like perfectly. I don't know. I feel like when it comes out, how I envisioned it, that's art for me to do you know what I mean? But it can also like some is just like terrible. Like the Philly films is shit. You know what I mean? Yeah. I've never shot with them. That's shit porn, you know, it's not, I feel like its more art, it's more artistic when you have better actresses, actors, guidance, lots of the budget and like prompts, location, makeup, wardrobe, all of that. 2 (48m 43s): It's a lot. I feel so bad for like us 0 (48m 48s): The youngest. Yeah. The one that, that picture is going around today, those girls, those girls, I feel better of those girls to, they have no idea 2 (48m 56s): What was coming. No idea. 0 (48m 58s): So did you have an agent when you first got in? 2 (49m 0s): Ooh, let me tell you, okay. Give me the date. So there is someone who approached me on Facebook when I was living in Tampa and they hit me up about doing porn. And I had already like when I was, when I was younger, I used to watch what's it called girls next door that Playboy a show and I want it to do Playboy. So that was my goal. Like as a kid growing up, which is really weird. And when I, when I got the chance to, I took it like right away and it was, I was so naive, dude. 2 (49m 40s): It was through this guy named Franco who was actually in prison. Oh my gosh. So this is a guy named Franco. He actually took me Carmen, Kelly and Tay and a few other, the areola Murray. We all started with him and he was taking all of our money and he was also trying to set us up as escorts. 0 (50m 5s): How, without your knowledge, because that it's obviously, you're not the girls 2 (50m 10s): Being naive. He thinks that I'm going to have to say yes, I'm just going to say yes. So I show up it's what's his name? Some guy named, I don't know. And he's expecting me to have sex with him. Like he's an owner of the company and I'm just like, Oh, are you kidding me? Cause no by I was like 19, I don't know. I'm not trying to you. And he was excited. And then yeah, I don't know. It was just so I started with them and they stole all of our money and basically all of that money went into making restaurants in Tampa and nightclubs. 2 (50m 50s): So anyway, I started with them and then I went to a Motley models and that was a better experience. And they actually saved my life to be honest because when I was going through all of that stuff at the end of 2017, they said, you need to go get help because we are not booking you anymore. Wow. So if they wouldn't have done that, like, I don't know 0 (51m 13s): Good for them for actually paying attention because that's rare. 2 (51m 16s): They cared about me. Like there's people who like, obviously don't care about their yeah. Sorry. And then there's people who like find something in you and really care. You know, 0 (51m 27s): They see the person instead of just the paycheck. Yeah. Do you think there should be a 21 and up rule? 2 (51m 34s): I do too. I really do. I had no clue dude. How, like, I don't understand how they, let me just not qualified. I don't know. But it was something that I wanted to do. I want it to like do all this sexual stuff but safe. You know? That's why I wanted to do a porn, I think. Yeah. 21. Yeah. It's ridiculous. Especially these 1918 year, 18 year old girls coming in doing like all these circus acts and it's like, dude, you're going to be so fucked up when you're older. So messed up because a look at me like I'm already kind of, I'm just kidding. 2 (52m 18s): I think you're doing good. I'm just kidding. 0 (52m 20s): But no, I think it's hard because how do you have the, industry's not going to make that regulation on its own. And then once you get the government involved, then it can get really dicey as well, because then they can just shut it down entirely. So you CA you just need someone who doesn't hate sex work and just wants the wellbeing for these young people. I mean, you can't drink until you're 21, but we don't trust you with the beer, but we're going to trust you to make this a little life altering decision. You can't undo it. It doesn't matter if you do one video for this basement company, someones going to find out it is going to ruin your job as a teacher or a paramedic, whatever you decide to do after there's not a proper exit either. 0 (53m 6s): So you have to hope that that decision pans out, which it doesn't for most people, I think they see people like you and I, or also, or whoever. And you are like the top 50 girls, right in the world-wide in the industry that is not normal. The rest of the girls are getting paid a few hundred bucks here and there they're in and out in a year. And then what 2 (53m 29s): Do you after? What do you do? I know 0 (53m 32s): It was really heartbreaking and no one's there to guide you or no one tells you to save money for taxes. So a lot of girls don't do that. Okay. 2 (53m 41s): I was still paying taxes. No years of drug use will do. 0 (53m 47s): Yeah. Not recommended. No. Yeah. But again, when you get it in so young, you've maybe never had a real job before or a gig job where you are responsible for those things. So you think I made this today and you really didn't do it. And then especially after agency fees and all that. So you would hope that agencies were being more, I guess, wholistic in that approach that they would provide these things and say, Hey, you don't have health insurance, so help, let me help you get it. Like these kinds of they get paid enough, right? Yeah. Is there a double dipping they're getting paid from the agent or from the production companies and from the talent, which I also don't think is fair, but I don't think you can do that on main street. 2 (54m 28s): I feel so bad. Like, I don't mean to be mean, but that's the kind of shit that's not art, you know? Cause they feel like, I don't know if it just doesn't look like wanted, I feel like it's just, I don't know. The girls look scared to me sometimes. Like in the, you know, those weird companies, the lower companies, and it was like, dude, why would you go through that? Those girl is terrified, but it's not your not, 0 (54m 58s): Not rewarded for speaking out. Usually like, I, my entire career, everyone's like, can you shut up? And I'm like, no, like, absolutely not. If they are doing this to someone, not on my level and that's not an inflated, that's just a fact, right? Like well-known person with a platform then what are they doing to a, nobody with no platform. You can only imagine. So I'm going to say things and I don't need this money so bad that I'm going to not honor. Like my, my truth or whatever is important. And it's served me well. Yeah. I don't have a million followers on Twitter, but I love the ones that I have because they're not really. 2 (55m 37s): And they are very, yeah. They Support like what you Support, you know? That's why I love my followers because, and they have my back. Whenever people want to attack me, I said something about Michael Jackson being a pedophile. Don't ever say that on Twitter daily, literally every creep comes out of the woodworks. He like, just talk, just bashing my character. I'm like, I'm sorry that I said, Michael Jackson might have been a pedophile. It's like, all right, whatever. I lost, like I think 3000 followers. Oh wow. That's a tough one. Yeah. 0 (56m 17s): I'm trying to think of my most controversial tweet during an election year. I got a little wild, 2 (56m 25s): Like I think we all did. Yeah. 0 (56m 26s): Yeah. So I I'm sure it was some Donald Trump tweet. And I think I lost probably a thousand people and I was like, Oh my God, I was talking to one of my friends. Do you know? The Zubie is he's this British rapper with he's fricking awesome. I definitely recommend you follow him on Twitter. So he currently holds the world record for women's deadlifting because he self identified as a woman or the day of the competition. Didn't train for, it shows up crushes. Every woman there wins the title and then goes, actually I'm a dude again. And he did it to prove a point because we're getting so crazy with self-identifying. So women's sports are pretty much gone. 0 (57m 8s): So he did it to prove there was a difference. There is an absolute difference between a biological man and a biological woman. And watch me not train and crush all of these professionals. So he's still holding it, holding it down. And I think it's fantastic because you can argue it is. Yeah. He literally proved everyone wrong or everyone that's advocating for that. So yeah, I was talking with him and he's like, you only lost a thousand followers. He's like, I've lost. And thing. He was saying like something like 10,000 or 20,000. Yeah. 2 (57m 38s): The way if you're losing that many, you already have like, who cares? 0 (57m 42s): It was like he said to her, he was like, Oh, we only have 300,000. 2 (57m 46s): It's not the point that I'm so 0 (57m 48s): Upset, but he was like, get over it. But at the end of the day, I think it's important to, if you feel compelled to say something, to say it and to use your platform, how you see fit, I wish more people were using it for more than just pictures and gifts and all of that because you actually can make a difference who have no idea what kind of difference you can make in someone's life. 2 (58m 7s): It's true. And I also want to tell you this one thing that I think is really cool from like sharing my experience. I'm a performer, a performer messaged me because it got around that I do Zan or did Xanax, lots of Xanax. And so someone hit me up and they were like, Hey, I'm really scared. I'm withdrawing from Xanax. And I'm like, you need to go to detox as soon as possible because benzo and alcohol withdrawal will give you a seizure. Oh. And I've experienced that firsthand. So the next day I'm like, Hey, are you okay? She she's like, I had a seizure, but my dad and a nurse were right there and I'm getting help. 2 (58m 50s): And now they're almost six months clean. I think. So like just one little thing I feel like can make a difference. And like, that's one more clean person. That's one more person, like consciously making a difference in the world. You know what I mean? If you got one person clean, you have a clean head. So yeah. And it probably gives you 0 (59m 10s): More power and empowerment to continue to be sober because we were like, when I'm in this good space, I can actually have a really positive impact. So many people. Yeah. Okay. So do you, have you noticed a difference since you've been able to start self producing and get out of LA and kind of get away from the craziness? Yeah. 2 (59m 34s): Okay. So for one, my skin is better 0 (59m 37s): The first and foremost thing. 2 (59m 40s): Okay. So I'm happier. First of all, getting out of LA there's to much, you get caught up in that. The thing that, Oh, you have to, okay. So I'm happier, healthier with my family and I'm about to start school. I'm playing so much music. Like I'm doing all of these things because I'm able to have this time for myself because I'm making my own shit and I don't have to deal with like the drama of people. I can just do my own thing. I make my way more money for my content. Like those other companies, like, I'm sorry, but that those are done. 2 (1h 0m 24s): Like those are done after only fans, you'll see a couple of girls shooting for them, but they are pretty, I pretty much things that they are going to be done eventually. 0 (1h 0m 33s): Yeah. So do you see bigger stars, like vet vets, people that came from our era shooting again? Or do you see, what would the point be? Cause I do see a couple and they're pretty big names and I'm like, why are you doing, have you not heard about only fair? 2 (1h 0m 50s): I don't know. I kind of focus on my own shit. You know? Like you 0 (1h 0m 54s): That's recommended. It's a lot happier there. 2 (1h 0m 57s): I think, I think a lot of girls do it just to stay relevant. And I did that. I shot with Carly Grey, like last year to stay relevant. M not to stay relevant, but to give my fans they've been like begging me. Yeah. But that was like one of those for a company shoe. It was for browsers. Oh, okay. Well think, I don't know reality. 0 (1h 1m 23s): So when you did that, did you try to renegotiate your price to something that you felt was more respectable now considering or ended at work? Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. 2 (1h 1m 32s): Yeah. If anyone has a problem with the price, then don't book, you know, someone else will, I'm not going to lower myself to fit into your little price. Yeah, yeah, no. 0 (1h 1m 46s): Did you ever have anyone bullying you about your price? Like agents? I guess you sounded like you had to play Glazer. Oh really? Yeah. He was like, yeah, 2 (1h 1m 54s): The micros are, would not pay anybody's real rate. 0 (1h 1m 58s): Oh, wow. So I didn't know that I have not met him. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. It's a really interesting thing, but okay. 2 (1h 2m 6s): So he can probably say some shit on me about how, like, I didn't show up to set sober, but it's like, okay. But why would I show up to set sober, like my full self when you're paying me $900? Well, I think that's important 0 (1h 2m 20s): To is when you start devaluing someone, it's really a hard to separate that from this is work and this is my actual value is a human being because it's such an intimate work and you have someone saying you're not worth that. So that does have an effect 2 (1h 2m 38s): On you. It does. It does the fact 0 (1h 2m 40s): That it does. And then you also have these extreme acts that are now kind of being normal expected, right. It's expected to do X, Y, and Z. And then if you are maybe a girl that's not getting as many scenes as you would like, maybe you're, you know, number 100 on porn hub or whatever. So you're getting booked twice a month, three times a month. So you have to keep knocking your price down and keep doing more and more extreme things in there. And they're wondering why there's this poor girl? I won't say her name, but she had, she started to get pretty popular. She was the very traditional, big boobs, small ways to blonde hair like that quintessential porn star. And she started showing up on set, not okay. 0 (1h 3m 23s): Like either drunk or an IME. I have never seen it. So this is a list allegedly, but there are some validity behind. It is not a lot, but just not okay. And people would start making fun of her and her. She was like, that's, that's a symptom. That's not, to me. That's not the, the cause. Right? So where's this getting routed from him. We should feel bad for her. I want to help her not snicker behind her back. That's a serious problem. And it makes sense. It makes sense that you would break someone down if you were, you it's like the perfect recipe, right. For self destructive behavior. And it's almost like certain people are just so eager to watch you fall because then that's more room for them to shoot. 0 (1h 4m 5s): And it's so twisted because there's an abundance of resources. It's a multi-billion dollar industry and we can all do great. So yeah. I don't know. I get a little bit, it's going to sound judgmental and maybe it is, but I do get heated when I see girls doing certain sex acts, because I think that that has a negative ripple effect on everyone else. And again, I'm not going to ever tell you what to do with your body. That's your decision. But I do think that you have to make a conscious decision when you are doing those things. And I don't think 2 (1h 4m 36s): That's happening. Yeah. There, there was. I don't know if you saw on Twitter, like a couple months ago, there was this photo that got retweeted of this girl with a black eye on her ribs that did not see us and her butt. And she was like, Ooh, daddy did me. Right. And I'm just like, Oh my freaking gosh, like, do you, she had like 10,000 followers. You don't see, like there are these girls and guys seeing that. They think that that's what women want. Like, no, I'm sorry. And it was Bruno <inaudible> have you heard of him? Yeah. He's in Miami and he, I think he's blacklisted from like a lot of companies, but he's been known to like beat the shit out of girls on 0 (1h 5m 18s): A regular set. Like not for kink. 2 (1h 5m 21s): Yeah. Just regularly. Like that's his thing. If you look him up, he'll be like, probably with his hand over a beer is not even getting published. There are a nasty sites. Oh, they're a really nasty sites out there. Yeah. 0 (1h 5m 36s): So again, there, there is the line there to write when it comes to cinch, censorship and private companies can do what they want, but then also certain things 2 (1h 5m 46s): Are just wrong. 0 (1h 5m 47s): You just can fundamentally feel. I don't, I I'm all about being able to explore and BDSM and I respect that when it's done properly. But I do think there's a line. So when you do get into permanent marks and when you do get into broken bones and when you get into black eyes, I don't think that's healthy. I think that that's some trauma that's not visited on the person that may be asking for if they are. And definitely the person that's willing to do that to somebody. 2 (1h 6m 20s): Yeah, it's gross. Right. I got attacked for saying that she shouldn't be posting, that people came at me like you're a kink shaming, E and I'm like, listen, honey, that is not kink. That is glorified abuse. Yes. There is a difference. There's a difference. There was like, you want to call the, okay. There's probably like a kid. Who's not supposed to be watching porn, watching that thinking, Oh yeah, I'm going to like, I'm going to do that to my girl. You know, it's 0 (1h 6m 53s): I heard that the younger generation, it's a very normal to us to get hit and choked and all of that. Now during regular sex, because of how much porn they are watching, I don't know how true that is, but I've heard it out and about. And it's scary because you have to realistically understand kids are having sex normally around what? 16, 17 years old. That is so young. I mean, now that I'm in my thirties, I'm like, that's so young. Yeah. You don't have no idea what you're doing. And if my, if I have, if I ever had a daughter and I found out she got punched in the face during sex, Oh Lord. Help that she just got hot. And at the same time out of the Lord help that child. So I think it's really important. Again, I think there needs to be paywall paywalls in all the content. 0 (1h 7m 35s): I'm really hate free explicit material because kids just to have access to it, not just the truth of the matter. So make a credit card, you know, necessary to see the staff. Yeah. But again, I think certain content shouldn't be allowed. And I know that at and T the anti a libertarian that I claim to be, but I think certain things it's, it's a violence. And I don't think that it's any different just because you're saying someone consents consent. 2 (1h 8m 2s): We also don't agree. Like, I'm sorry, but I have like, PTSD from people are getting punched in the face. Like that to me is like, I don't know. That's almost like seeing your mom hit you or your dad hit your mom. You know, it's like a kid watching that. It was like, Oh, that's cool. I saw my mom and dad hit, you know, like if they're in an abusive place already, can you imagine, like what kind of a little monster is being created by consuming that shit? Yeah. They do need, I don't even know what they would do though. You know, to like, with the whole paywall in everything they couldn't, it's like impossible 0 (1h 8m 41s): To make everyone have a paywall. I don't think so. I think it'd be super simple. And I think a lot of people would have been really excited to do it because then you could tax it or whatever, but we regulate things all the time and we regulate alcohol. We regulate weed now. And yeah, we do. It's harder when you have servers that are over in Russia, there was always going to be a way. But when you have these really prominent companies that are in Canada or, or the us that think you make them do it, even with Twitter. Cause like there is some, I see some stuff on there and I'm like, I can't believe that this is a loud. And again, like, I'm all about like, if you want to post it's your page, do what you want with it. But certain stuff like that, shouldn't be available for anyone to just scroll past. 0 (1h 9m 25s): Like, do you see like really intense, like gay beings? Oh, stuff or prolapsing 2 (1h 9m 33s): Prolapsing, but that's not health our IP to your colon, babe. 0 (1h 9m 39s): Okay. Doctor, are you okay? 2 (1h 9m 41s): It is. It's like, yeah, that was gross. Yeah. Are you okay? Is there a little, girl's like 18. I'm not laughing. It's just like sad. 0 (1h 9m 50s): It makes me really sad again, 21 and up. Gosh. 2 (1h 9m 55s): Okay. Like this little girl have braces and like, Oh, okay. 0 (1h 9m 60s): I don't think that kind of porn either, but that's when you start getting into, well, now all porn's illegal, but I would never shoot that kind of stuff because it's, you know, who's watching it. And I just don't agree with that. There's not like a, seen a healthy person and wanting to pretend that someone's underage, that person has some kind of work that they need to really be doing. So what's really interesting with that Biocybernaut thing. This guy is just has, he has so many stories that I love his stories he was explaining, because I do think if you, if you get into porn, especially, and you don't really sit with the decision as to why you're doing these things and the repercussions, and constantly checking in with yourself to make sure that you're healthy. 0 (1h 10m 52s): I think it can have a long-lasting effect on your, on like your psyche and your relationships. And I didn't really realize that I, I definitely had to deal with some intimacy issues after shooting for so long. And then with my husband and have been with him the whole time I was shooting, but I would just became so detached. And I started to prefer that detachment, which isn't good either. So that was one of the things I worked on and we were talking about sex and he was explaining what, I don't know how it came up. I think I was saying how I prefer a rougher sex. Like, it's really hard for me to get into it if it's not in my, husband's not that way. Like, he's a very much, like, I don't want to hurt ever hurt you. 0 (1h 11m 34s): Like he is just a gentle giant. So, and it would cause fights. And he's like, this, this isn't normal to want these, these things. And I was like, yes, it is. It's totally normal. Like I, you know, I do it on set and I see it. And I grew up with a lot of abuse as well. So I think that also played a huge role on to it. So Dr. Hart was saying he had, he had a, really someone that was really in to the S and M stuff. I think he was a sub and he liked to feel pain. Like he, he couldn't get off in this. He felt pain. So he had the whips and the chains and the spikes and all of the toys. You could imagine by the end of the training, the seven days he threw all of his stuff away, all his toys away. 0 (1h 12m 19s): And he walked away from S and M and he, he realized that for his story, like his, his need for that pain was because of some emotional baggage that he hadn't really unpacked or forgiven. And once he had gone through all of that forgiveness work, he just threw his toys away. He is like, I don't need to feel pain in order to connect with someone. And I was like, that's so beautiful. 2 (1h 12m 44s): It's not like that. I'm a crier. Like you wouldn't think I come off. Like I'm hard or something, but 0 (1h 12m 50s): Especially with the tattoos, you're like, no girl, that's a tough chick 2 (1h 12m 54s): Crying. If something beautiful happens. Like if something really sad happens, I'll cry. If something really beautiful happens, I will cry. If I'm mad, I won't cry. 0 (1h 13m 5s): I cry a lot when I'm mad, really? I don't know why I get so angry. I just tears while up. And I'm like, okay, now they think I'm a baby, but I'm just so mad. 2 (1h 13m 14s): Okay. That is 0 (1h 13m 17s): So funny. Yeah. I can't help myself. 2 (1h 13m 20s): I know. I get, yeah. I feel you. So 0 (1h 13m 27s): If you don't want to answer is we can always cut it. Are you, when you found your boyfriend now, was it hard because you're famous and you're a famous porn star because there's that narrative you'll never find love. Right? Everyone tells you that you're not worthy. You'll never find love. You don't want to die alone. 2 (1h 13m 47s): Like they want you anyway. He already knew who I was and we were in this a not really allowed to say we are in this group. Okay. But I met him there and he had like five years clean at the time. And he was like really hot, you know, like junky chic, call it. And, but he shared, and he was like, so soft-spoken, and I'm gonna cry because I love him so much, but he's taught me like, so freaking much about myself and other people and stuff, but it wasn't hard at all. 2 (1h 14m 33s): Cause he he's, I guess he's just so like awakened was enlightened. I don't know a weekend either one, but he, his mind is so open and he's so patient in it. He's literally like the best person. I'm very lucky and fuck you for every one of the stuff that I couldn't find love. 0 (1h 14m 57s): Yeah. Okay. I hate that. That's the narrative. Once you go in, and then I think that also leads to a lot of bad decisions because you're like, well, I'm going to die a little with my cat anyways. So I might as well go get paid. Well, I'm lonely and it's just not true. I know so many people that are married in so many people in a positive, healthy relationships with families and you, you can have whatever you want you to just have to know that you're worth, you're worth of that thing. So I think it comes from feeling like you're not worthy of love. And then of course you're not going to find anybody or at least anybody good. 2 (1h 15m 29s): Yeah. Yep. You're going to end up with some one who treats you, how you think you should. 0 (1h 15m 34s): It should be treated. Exactly. Yeah. So when you decided to stop shooting, was it because you were in a bad space? Yeah. 2 (1h 15m 44s): Yeah. I was. I mean, like I said, my husband, my husband, my agent, my agent, he already said he was not going to be booking me anymore. So it just forced it. But I was getting booked because I was self book. But at that point it was okay. It was after IO deed for the third time. And I was just like, all right, I need to go home. And it's Christmas anyway. So I went home and it wasn't an active thought to stop shooting. It just happened. 2 (1h 16m 25s): And then I just stayed out until, do you want to hear something funny? Yeah. I worked at Dunkin Donuts. I saw you tweeting that and everyone was like 0 (1h 16m 35s): Losing their mind. So what was that like? Holy cow. 2 (1h 16m 41s): All right. So first of all, I cried on my first day of work. I lost everything. Okay. So when I went to treatment, when I came here December, 2017, I lost my apartment because I was evicted. So everything in my apartment went up for auction. I lost everything. I lost my dog. Oh no, I still have my cat, but what else did I lose? Oh yeah. My dignity. Just kidding. Yeah. So I forgot what I was talking about. Dunkin Donuts. Oh yeah. Dunkin. So I had already lost all that shit and I'm like, all right. I was living in a halfway house because I really wanted to be clean. 2 (1h 17m 21s): I got kicked out of three halfway houses because of the girls were jealous of me. They knew who you were. Yeah. And their boyfriends were like into me and I'm like, I'm sorry. I don't know why I deserve a right to recovery. Just like you do. So it's like, I don't know. The last house I ended up at the girls were coolest shit, but I had to get a job and I had a warrant out for my arrest. So I couldn't get a job. I had a lot of is the warrant for, for weed. 0 (1h 17m 50s): Oh, for weed. Yeah. Which is now legal. Everywhere. Yes. 2 (1h 17m 54s): Okay. So I had to get a job. Finally. I got the warrant taken care of. I was proactive. I called myself a lawyer and did that took care of all of that shit. And it was so annoying, difficult, but after that I could legally work. And so no one would hire me. So I got a job at Dunkin Donuts. Cause my there's sponsors in AA and my sponsor told me you need to get a job and humble yourself. And I worked at Dunkin Donuts for almost a year to do. 0 (1h 18m 26s): Did you put in what you put on your resume? Did you 3 (1h 18m 31s): Self-employed Kelvin. Okay. 2 (1h 18m 33s): But then I got another job as a sales agent, like shortly after. Cause I got fired from Dunkin because I was mean to the customers because I'm like, excuse me, just because I'm giving you a service does not mean you can treat me like shit. Sorry, but no. So I would speak my mind and my, the manager was my best friend, so I would get away with it. But yeah, I got fired from my mouth and for This, my second job is to, I got fired from my mouth as well. It's just something with my mouth, I guess. What 0 (1h 19m 8s): Did you learn about yourself from working at Dunkin Donuts? Because I think we tend to self identify with these external things. Like I'm this job or I'm this amount of followers or I'm this money in the bank account. These things that don't matter. So when those things are stripped and you're wearing that uniform, 2 (1h 19m 30s): I felt, I was like, I'm fucking doing it. I was like, I'm not a little bitch. I'm not still doing drugs. I'm doing everything that I need to do to stay clean right now. Fuck this job. But I'm fucking doing it. That's I? 0 (1h 19m 46s): Okay. I think that's great. Did you leave and were you like a different person for it or did you just learn more about yourself? 2 (1h 19m 56s): Well, I learned, I mean, I've never, even as a kid, my parents never were like, they were always like, don't worry about money. No one, no one from like money does not matter. It does not make the person. You can be rich and you can be an asshole and you can be poor in the best person in the world. So I was never like identifying people by how much they made. But at Dunkin, it, it like so stupid. It like humbled me so fucking much. Like I had to clean shit out in the bathroom, like me, I had to clean shit. 2 (1h 20m 38s): And so I was just like, okay so I can lose everything. And then what am I? So I had to like figure out who I was and do I like that. You know, it taught me a lot, honestly. Yeah. That tickled my vagina. 0 (1h 20m 56s): Did you ever have the issue? So I find the fact that we live in two names, so interesting. We spend so much time in this alter ego. Did that affect you? How did that effect you a lot? Like did Keisha stay around longer than she should have in certain situations? 2 (1h 21m 14s): Yes. Yes. Keisha stayed along, stay in for a long time. And I don't know, Kelsey, Kelsey is like the girl I just said, my name is okay. Kelsea is the girl that like grew up, you know, loving art in all this stuff. And like, I look back at myself and I'm like, damn Kelsey, you are the shit girl. So like that, I tried to go off of that. And I'm sorry, I keep forgetting what I'm talking about, 0 (1h 21m 45s): Talking about when you spend too much time and you're all sharing you go. Yeah. 2 (1h 21m 49s): Kelsey is like sweet and stuff. And then Keisha is, is like sassy little shit who like isn't, I mean, I'm a slut in general, but you know, I was just feel like they're two different people and people like to think that they know Kelsey. That's so funny to me because they literally, I give them what I want you to know. But it's hard sometimes because I will be like, Oh, I'm Keisha Grey. But then I'm like, wait, she shut the F like instantly, I'll be like, so w so what does that make you like, are you, what are you doing? 2 (1h 22m 32s): But yeah. I don't know. 0 (1h 22m 35s): Yeah. That would happen a lot with me too. And you don't realize something so stupid is having a stage name does affect you on a personality level. I would, if I spent too much time in LA, I would come home and Eric would be like, can you tell Eva to go back to LA? This isn't going to work with me. And he would just call me out on my shit. And that was like, I didn't even know I was behaving in a different way, but it, the industry and just LA in general kind of make you act differently. You have to put up a shell or a porcupine to fit in and pretend to be something. Because if you're not something, then you're nothing. 2 (1h 23m 15s): That's how I would protect myself though. Like myself, you know, not Keisha, I would protect myself by putting on this character, which is also cool to have that, but it's also weird to have like two different names, you know, but I'm also a Gemini and I'm also bipolar. 0 (1h 23m 36s): So this is winter. Birthday is May 29th. Cool. I'm June. Okay. Six, nine. Yeah. Cool. So you have the double whammy though, with, with the switch. Yup. And that's intense, you know, and then you're also in a situation where there's two of you, because I always say there's things Eva does on the screen that I'm not doing in my real life. And yeah. You just have to make sure that you don't spend too much time in the one that doesn't really exist. 2 (1h 24m 6s): Yeah. It's very important to ground yourself. I wish I had, like what I have now when I was shooting constantly, I probably would have been like, I don't know, but I'm really happy that like all these experiences good and bad. Like, I don't know. I don't know what I'm talking about again. 0 (1h 24m 31s): So after, once you found your sobriety and you started shooting for yourself and getting reconnected with your family, do you have like a meditation practice or do you have grounding exercises? Yeah. 2 (1h 24m 45s): Okay. So I have terrible anxiety, as you can probably tell I'm like fidgeting and like, but what I try to do when I'm having like a panic attack or something, I will look at things in the room and, and be like, Oh, that book is red, that's blue. It takes your it's silly, but it takes your mind away. And it helps a lot. And then grounding for depression, the gratitude lists that helps writing down what you want to be, who you want, like what you want to beat, the person that you want to be like we were talking about. 2 (1h 25m 25s): And also depression comes from dwelling on the past. So it's really good to like, what do you want? Go ahead. And, you know, think about that. It's really freaking hard, but that's what I try to do. 0 (1h 25m 40s): Yeah. I can't wait for you to tell me what you think about that book. I suggested earlier because he gets, he gets really deep into depression. And then I think it's really interesting that he tied in the addiction issue with everything is, it just seems like, of course this makes sense. And then the new, new version also includes the pandemic and how that social isolation is affecting so many people. Yeah. I think it's like right up your alley. So I'm so curious. I'm excited. I hope you love it. I hope so too. Yeah. So where do you see yourself? And like the next five years, are you going to be self producing? I know you mentioned you're going back to school and we already said, no, one's going back to mainstream. 0 (1h 26m 25s): So what are your, 2 (1h 26m 26s): The goals? So I want to be a vet tech, so I'm going to be going to school for that. I already volunteer like out a couple places, but I want to like put more into that cause like, I don't know. I feel really good when I'm helping people. I feel like useful. I probably, I want to write a book or something. I don't know. And I'm probably still self producing. Definitely. Probably getting more into it, like have a giant studio and like people working with me and stuff like that, hopefully. 0 (1h 27m 8s): Okay. Yeah. We'll see. It'll be so fun. Yeah. When I started doing that for my website, when I got out of mainstream and it feels really powerful, it does. It's you're like, Ooh, I'm the director today. And I get to call all of the shots and it's my creative vision. And I own all of this is just a very cool it's. Yeah. It's just a very powerful place. And it's the script kind of flips because you don't necessarily always feel powerful as a performer. So yeah. I'm really excited to see where everything goes. I honestly think it's going to be self producing until V VR and AR are the primary use of porn. 0 (1h 27m 48s): But until then, I think it's all going to be these little studios that these girls make. And I think that's awesome. Yeah. I'm 2 (1h 27m 54s): Glad. It's, I'm glad that this was happening 0 (1h 27m 58s): And it all happens for a reason. 2 (1h 27m 59s): Girls find out that they really like doing it. You know, they really like self producing and they can be so creative and like let there, you know, it's a lot better. Yeah. 0 (1h 28m 8s): I've seen some really impressive sets from some girls, like really in PR they pulled out all of the stops, got super creative with wardrobe and location and you know, no one in mainstream, we do that because it would cost too much. We'd be like, how much do you need to profit? 'cause she spent probably, I don't know, like seven grand on a set. And she is still turning a profit. And that's one person without paid traffic. Yeah. I feel like they're just really going to have to try to figure out what they're doing next. Cause it's going to be a while. I think until people are using VR, because everything's so heavy and big and it's also a really awkward, like, you're going to be like, sit there with this. 2 (1h 28m 48s): <inaudible> no idea. Are you locked the door? That's two for me. Yeah. With like, imagine like a small one because it's in future and it's just this guy like, yeah. So funny. I'm gonna find my boyfriend doing that. He'll have no clue. Yeah. I'll start looking in and he'll be like, Whoa, this is must be the upgraded version. I didn't know this was a feature. Well, this has been super awesome. I really appreciate you coming all the way in North Carolina for this. 2 (1h 29m 27s): Do you want to tell the listeners how they can support you, where they can follow you in anything that you might be working on? So my website is a little quiche.org. My Twitter and Instagram are a little quiche and my only fans is only fans.com/ Keisha Grey. I wasn't talking into this. Oh, you're fine. Okay. Yeah. Well, thank you again. And I can't wait to see you again in the future on the podcast.