This weeks episode I was lucky enough to have Matt Thomas join me. Matt is the founder of the nonprofit Brawl for a Cause, World Champion Chess Boxer, and recently cast on the hit show Love is Blind on Netflix.
Matt and I discuss how to over come obstacles, how one exactly stumbles on chess boxing, and his path to finding love.
Is there a mindset that fighters have that help them over come hurdles, why is it so hard to be vulnerable in relationships, how does freedom relate to love, and what he's up to now.
Follow him on his socials Instagram @MovingwithMatt @Brawlforacause
Support the show (http://patreon.com/candicehorbacz)
0 (0s): <inaudible> 1 (4s): Hello everybody. You're listening to Chatting with Candice. I'm your host Candice Horbacz. Before we start this weeks episode, if you wanna support the podcast, you can go to Chatting with candice.com and sign up for our Patrion account. You get early access to episodes, bonus content live AMHS and your support really helps us to continue podcasting. This week's guest is Matt Thomas. He is the world champion at Chess boxing, founder, and director of Brawl for a Cause founder of fight and flow, and more recently known for being on the cast of Love is Blind. I'm so excited that he left to join us. And I hope you really enjoy the conversation For everybody listening. 1 (51s): Do you wanna introduce yourself? And you've had like a very busy couple of years, 2 (58s): A little over a place, I guess, but yeah, sure. My name is Matt Thomas on 30 years old, I'm the founder of a nonprofit called Brawl for a Cause and I'm developing a fitness concept called fight in flow. I'm involved with a sport called Chess boxing. It's a combination of the board game Chess with the combat sport boxing. So I really like things that combine to antithetical or opposite things like Chess and boxing fight in flow is a combination between martial arts and yoga. Brawl for a Cause is combining philanthropy with fitness or fighting. So I really like this, this idea of bringing two opposites, like a yin and yang and wearing them, bring them together. 2 (1m 43s): So yeah, there's this was the first four were actually speaking on side a text. So we really appreciate you having me on and I'm glad brand and put us together and I'm looking forward to this. 1 (1m 55s): He was telling me about you. I was like, that just sounds like such an interesting person. He was like explaining Chess boxing, which I had no idea even existed. He was still like me to watch some videos of that. Cause that's just like wild to me and then your nonprofit and then how you're trying to like create a new workout, which is like really fascinating. And then you were on Oprah, a reality TV show, and then he was explaining like, kind of like we touched on like your spiritual beliefs, new sounded like such a like unique individuals. I was like, yeah, I would love to like, get to know this person. I guess we can start with like, Chess boxing. How did you get into Chess boxing? How did you even discover? That was a thing. 2 (2m 36s): Yeah, so it, it found me. I got really, really lucky. So I wanted to university of Georgia and that's where I started boxing. My mom never let me do any kind of competitive martial arts growing up. So when I got to Georgia, I started taking boxing lessons. I started competing for the UGA club boxing team, and then I started competing the amateur circuit. So my very amateur fight, I dislocated my shoulder and the first round continued the fight. I ended up winning and after I put my shoulder back in the shoulder injury required a really intense surgery. Then put me off for about six months. So in those six months I was sitting in bed, I was getting chubby watching YouTube and I grew up playing Chess competitively. 2 (3m 24s): And so I have returned to Chess periodically through my life, especially when I'm downtime, because I really love the game. So recovering from surgery, it was one of those times where I was playing. A lot of Chess watching a lot of YouTube and no joke. You know, the like sidebar on YouTube, where it serves your videos next up, it was a chest boxing video. So the YouTube algorithm, if it works really well, cause it knew me super well. And I didn't even have to click on the video. It auto played. So I watched that it was like this camp This has to be a spoof, like as it has to be a joke, someone is actually combining Chess with boxing. 2 (4m 7s): Like those were my two favorite things. I feel like I was born for the sport. So I went down that rabbit hole. I watched every video online. I started reading articles about it. I tracked down the founder of the sport. He created the sport in 2003, a Dutchman who have actually passed two months ago, EFA. And I reach out to him while it was recovering from surgery. And I was like, Hey, listen, man. Like, I love what you created. I'd love to get involved. And he was like, great. Like we've never had an American compete before. Let's get you signed up. Let's get you in over to Europe and Ann. And I was like, Hey, listen, you know, I'm at least six months from being able to hit a heavy bag. 2 (4m 47s): I'll probably a year out or more from being able to get in fight shape again. He said just reach back out when, when, when your back in shape. So yeah, so that, that's how I found the sport. And then they just kind of ran away with me. I can't seem to get away from it. Not that I want to, but it's a weird little World we're it attracts a lot of interesting people. 1 (5m 10s): He was going to ask the Lord, what do you like, what do you think the differences are between like the athlete's that just normal box versus the ones that are combining it with Chess coz there has to be a difference, right? 2 (5m 21s): Yeah. So I spent a lot of time around boxers. Like I'm I'm in boxing. Gym is a lot fighters have, have a mentality that is really attractive to me because they, that they encounter pain and adversity on a regular basis. Right. And painted adversity is inevitable in life, but a lot of people try to stay away from pain adversity. It's a bad thing. All the best things have happened in my life that have come right after because of some sort of pain or adversity that I navigate it. And sometimes that's a hard lesson learned and sometimes it's like my best trial, you know? So it's, I think in general fighters have the kind of mentality and spirit that, that sees adversity has opportunity and struggle as a potential for strength. 2 (6m 11s): And so I really liked that about, you know, fighters in general. And then I think the added wrinkle with Chess boxers is Chess is a game that requires you to, to visualize a lot. You're you're looking moves ahead to decide what the best option to take it. So you have, what's called candidate moves, generally we'll have between two and five candidate moves of all moves that could do something. And you're trying to decide what something is the best for whatever your, your game plan is. So it introduces a level of strategy. And thinking ahead that maybe some fighters don't have, so, you know, fighting in general is a very short term focused kind of career, right? 2 (6m 52s): And you kinda got to get in and out. You don't have much time to fight, but most fighters are retire early, mid thirties is that you're you're you're in and out. Chess boxing is something that you can do for a much longer time. Boxing is, is, is so much less of a component. You have more Chess rounds in boxing. There's a lot more rest in between rounds. So I think the strategic thinking ahead component is something that is unique to Chess boxing and, and something that I like more, cause I, I can't be a professional fighter, especially at this stage. And I, I wouldn't necessarily want that life for me, future family or that kind of thing. So I'm, I'm glad I've found this as, as a fun hobby in it and to help build in, in the West and in the United States. 1 (7m 37s): So do you think that that's kind of like an innate personality trait and like people that gravitate towards boxing, the whole concept of like leaning into discomfort to like have the opportunity for growth or do you think that is something learned or do you think it's both? 2 (7m 53s): It's a good question. I think, I think it's probably a combination of both. I think some people have it and understand it from an early age. I think early adversity is a good indicator of, of future success. I think one component is, is people who have early adversity temps that tend to gravitate towards things that use adversity as opportunity in struggle with strength. I also think, you know, my nonprofit, basically it takes people that I have no business being in a ring and puts them in a ring against each other to raise money for charity. 1 (8m 26s): How do you train like that? I think is so crazy. I was watching some of the videos I could find online and the whole concept of like being a civilian and then tossed into a ring to fight somebody that is terrifying to me. Like I'm very, like, I guess like risk averse when it comes to like getting physically hurt. Like just not something I'm interested in. So how do you take someone? That's like, let's say an accountant and like, get him ready to like, do like this really physically task for charity. Okay. 2 (8m 58s): So yeah, I'll, I'll focus first on the last part that you said physically challenging and is definitely that you're like there's no shape, like fight shape, right. To fight another human being. There's nothing that will instill discipline in you like that. Like if you have trouble giving up cheese dip or beer or whatever, but like have a date where you're going to fight another human being and it's going to be easy to give that stuff up. Cause you're always going to have in your head. Like that person is not even Jesus. If that person is waking up at six thing in the road, work in running the stadiums, doing the, the, you know, three mile run, whatever the physical component is interesting. 2 (9m 38s): What, what my favorite part of the whole Brawl for a Cause journey is is that the mental component, because really what, what we're doing. And we don't say this explicitly, like I, you know, out loud, but what we're doing is we're training people, how to set a goal, how to work towards it, even when it's hard and how to take that model and apply it to other goals after Brawl for a Cause. Cause if he can do this, you can apply the same thing. You know, there's definitely things harder than Brawl for a Cause, but we do the same thing for any goal. You plug and play the goal and the same type of, of buildup, overcoming adversity, overcoming trials, building up momentum and confidence, all of that can be applied to other goals in life. 2 (10m 21s): So the mindset training is, is what I think is the most beneficial part of all of it, you know? Yeah. You'll get it in great shape. Yeah. You'll look great in front of your friends and family and people that support your Cause and the community Cause win or lose. You're a fricken a hero when you do everything. People know that they know that your not a fighter, not trying to be a fighter for yourself in harm's way to do this for the very first time, just to raise funds and awareness for something you believe. So, you know, like the window matter, what you're against someone else who's just as scared and has no idea what they're doing either to walk away with all these lessons, learned all his funds and awareness raise for this change that you want to see in the world and this community of people that have all gone through a shared experience. 2 (11m 3s): We're now, you know, you're coming to Brawl veteran events and a, and getting a workout in, or we're trying to a new restaurant in town and you've all gone through the same thing, even if you've never met before you have some common ground. So it is a good way to make friends join a community. 1 (11m 19s): Do you see like an overarching theme in people that you're like training for their fight, like common hurdles that you have to help them get over? Like everyone has like these top, like these three things that are kind of holding them back or psyching them out or is it kind of all over the place? 2 (11m 36s): You're a great question to ask her. 1 (11m 38s): Thank you. I'm so new to this. I get a little bit nervous. I'm like, I don't have a crutch and like I try to just wing it. So thank you. 2 (11m 45s): He was having a conversation. Yeah. What to do it. So have you heard of Joseph Campbell or the hero's journey? Okay. So Joseph Campbell wrote this book on Hiro with a thousand faces. And this thing is like turning in my Bible. And here are the thousand faces took heroes from all different cultures, all different time periods and put them all right up next to each other. So you're studying Hercules or the same time you're studying George Washington. And the same time you're studying all these different people from all these different mythologies and fairytales and whatever. So when he broke down his basic steps through a hero's journey that every single chiro navigates. 2 (12m 27s): So there's always a death and rebirth. When you become a hero, there's, there's the death of this old version of you and this rebirth of this, you know, striving hero, that's embarking on this journey. There's a departure from the comfort zone or from home. So you have to leave some sort of like where you grew up or it take like Simba and the lion King, for example, like when we fall, the dyes, he has to leave pride rock is now scarves on his back. Try to make sure that the air doesn't come. So he has to go out into the wilderness, to the jungle. And then that's really when that the journey begins. You have, you have training that starts and training. Usually it's introduced by mentors. Some of those mentors were to Moana in Goomba to show them how to eat bugs and navigate the jungle, you know, and star Wars. 2 (13m 13s): It was Yoda teaching Luke, how to levitate things and use the force. And for us, we, we assign a Brawl mentor. So that is already gone through our program already had their moment in the arena and fought to help new brawlers through the experience from experience. And then I think this is the part that you're asking about that the next step, when training begins trials begin. So a trial is not your final face, the dragon kind of a moment. The ultimate, it's a whole bunch of little subsets of what you will eventually face. And you'll get a face. I'm a little bite sized chunks and build up this momentum to overcome this, this big scary thing in the future. I'll share three things that every single brawler has to overcome won. 2 (13m 56s): They have to get punched in the face. One of the first things that we do is we're like, Hey, this is gonna happen on a lot over the next three months. First sparring day, let's go, you're getting in there with me. I know 3 (14m 8s): How to pull upon them. I'm going to knock you out, but you're going on 2 (14m 10s): To feel what a jab or the nose feels like. My get a bloody nose part of this it, and the sooner that you normalize it, the less it affects you to go in debt over the fact that you don't want to get punched. There is no way around him, no matter how good I'm a boxer you are, but I'm going to leave that up. Pumped Floyd Mayweather, a dub punched it. It happens number to your raising funds and awareness for something you believe in. And you've got to change your mindset from begging for money to giving people an opportunity for generosity. Everyone has to pick up the phone and call 10 people, tell him what they're doing and say, I care about the so much. I'm going to get punched in the face for it. 2 (14m 51s): And here's an opportunity to be more generous, to give and support me, not just in this journey, but support this change. I don't wanna see in the world. That's a scary thing to do that. I would rather get punched in the face a a hundred times that call 10 people or on the opposite. Total opposite. Yeah. So everyone is a little different. Everyone navigates these a little differently. Okay. Third one is for two months, you go through this journey as one cohesive unit, no one knows who's fighting someone else and that's important to, we need to see how people would match up to make the best possible possible match-ups to make sure they're a fair, safe and entertaining. 30 days out, you find out who you're actually facing. 2 (15m 34s): One that has that, that ambiguous. I am fighting someone in three months, goes from kind of an undefined cloud to like an actual person in the don't really know how to interact with them. It could be a little bit awkward. Hey, we're fighting in three month in a month. But for the last 60 days, we've been friends in training together. Like how does that change? Navigating uncomfortable situations and having uncomfortable conversations. And I, there's a quote. I love success can be measured in a number of uncomfortable conversations. You're willing to have like putting the people that are mashed up together together, right off the bat, you to cocreate promo content, where they get together, they train together. 2 (16m 16s): They talk about how they match up. They're posting on the same time on social media, forcing them to be a team all the way through the process. Really, really beneficial on the people that are our most successful. And Brawl for a Cause of the people that lean all the way into that. Even though it's weird or awkward or scary, they take it on. 1 (16m 33s): Yeah. I think that would be the weirdest part too. I was like trying to put myself in that situation and I was like, Oh, but then if you know the person, then you feel even worse if you hit them. And then it's like a, you don't wanna give it your all necessarily Cause you're like, Oh, what if they like take it personal? So I think there has to be like an aspect of, I guess, like being able to put yourself in and out of that situation, like understanding that it's not personal. And is it for like a good, Cause just, it's really badass. 2 (16m 58s): Thanks. Yep. And you hit the nail on the head. It's retraining your brain. It's reframing a situation where you wouldn't normally feel a certain way, but you can choose to see it a more positive way, a more productive way. I think that's a really good life lesson, but to take away, 1 (17m 13s): How do you think that your interest in like fighting and boxing kind of led you onto like your spiritual path? Cause I finally a lot of fighters and boxers, like they're either very like religious or a very spiritual, they have like a different kind of perspective than I guess like a non fighter. Like I find like a lot of them kind of let me, let me lean into like Buddhism or like that meditation is like a religion obviously, but it, it is a spiritual practice and a sense. So do you think that those things like couple, or did you find that like independently of fighting? Yeah. So 2 (17m 50s): I'll give like a SparkNote history of, of like spiritual or religious background and then talk about kind of what made me believe what I believe now. So born Catholic baptized Catholic mom is Irish. Catholic has eight siblings like that are all the way in on the note, birth control kind of thing. After my parents separated, my mom took us out of the Catholic church cause they were making her like pay to, for me to be legitimate or having a moment or all this, all this red tape stuff that she was just not about. I ended up growing up, Protestant, went to Methodist church my whole life. 2 (18m 30s): And I started having doubts when I was in high school and in college of like, Hey, all this stuff that they're saying and preaching, like there are good morals here. All these things have, have like good content, but I don't believe this. Like, like literally, like I don't believe that women were made from a rib of a man. I don't believe that the whole world flooded in that everyone was repopulated from a dude and his family on the boat with to have every animal. But, but I believe in the metaphorical significance of, Hey, that the world can we come to corrupt and needed to be wiped out, kinda like what's happening now is this can, this could be seen as a, is a flood type of, of experience. 2 (19m 17s): So I started seeing the Bible and organized religion less literally and more figurative with, and that opened my mind to be able to see anything is spiritual. So it didn't have to be this Holy book straight from the hand of God, whoever got his or her or whatever, either a Messiah or, or Saint that was able to talk to God and bring the words to the people. But I sorted to see everything is an expression of God. So in any kind of creative work in these, these fairytales that the works have Joseph Campbell with the, the Euro with a thousand faces, all of those things had the same types of perishables in the same types of wisdom. 2 (19m 57s): And it became more of a, a temperature check or a, a way to figure out what was right for, for me of, of, yeah, this, this moral, you know, I, I've learned this lesson the hard way to the same way that this character in the story did. And so I knew that there was truth in that. So that's, that's something that I should add to my moral compass as opposed to other things where it's like, no, I haven't experienced that. I haven't seen that. I can let that go. So I, if you asked me in college, I wouldn't consider myself an atheist in terms of like believing that there was a God that religions preach about, but I would've, I would've considered myself very spiritual because I was, I opened my mind to look at everything through a lens like, Hey, is this a good way to live life or a bad way to live life based off of the action and reaction. 2 (20m 44s): And in college is when I was introduced to Eastern religions. I had a near death experience my junior year and had an interaction with something, something that I didn't understand, some people could call it divine or God, some people could call it just a traumatic brain injury. And so, you know, seeing things and talking to people or whatever. But after that, that's when I started like digging deeper into not just what Western religion says, but what people from other parts of the world or people from other time periods set. And when I came across that wisdom and Buddhism, it really resonated because that same kind of looking at life through the lens of action and reaction is essentially karma karma. 2 (21m 24s): Does it mean that there's good Carmen, back on it? It just means that there's a reaction for every action. There's a balance. There is something that rounds it out. So karma kind of brought me into this Buddhist journey and I ended up living in Thailand for a few months. I spent time in India and Bali. I did a silent meditation retreat at a monastery in Chinatown, Thailand. Ah, that was completely eye opening. And it forced me to dig really deep into my own traumas and past relationship baggage and, and at least acknowledged a lot of what I had to work on when I was so focused on what's wrong with a World and other people, it, it turned it into a word and like, Oh look, my only job has to work on myself in this life. 2 (22m 9s): Like if I can take care of myself and fill up my cup, I can overflow on other people. I give me an example for others. I can more to give and support and lead. And so that really shifted my perspective. Just spending time, not talking to anyone except for myself in my head and just observing what kind of thoughts and feelings and patterns arise. So once that happened, that I was like, okay, this journey through the self to the self approach of Taoism and Buddhism is, is for me, you know, I don't think you can go wrong with religion in general. I don't think there are any bad religions. I think there are bad people in religion that kind of give them a, a certain group or sect a bad rap. 2 (22m 54s): Like I don't think all Catholics are bad because some Catholic priests do terrible things, the children, but I don't think all captains were good just because they're Catholic either. So like it's, you know, there's, there's good and bad people in every, every group like that. So its just what resonates with you and that, that kind of approach resonates with me. And it sounds like it's similar for you or you, what was your background? 1 (23m 18s): So I was raised Catholic as well. Well it kind of confusing. So on my dad's side is Japanese. So my grandma's like Buddhist and very spiritual and not Western at all. And then my mom's side, the family, it was raised Catholic. So we were baptized the whole night and like that never really like felt right to me. I was always the kid that was kind of getting tossed in the hall Cause I was asking like too many questions. So I was like, well this isn't, this does just doesn't make sense from a young age. And a lot of it does that make sense? Cause they want you to take it so literal or at least the people that were teaching me dead. So I just always like really had like this admiration for my grandmother and like I just kind of gravitated towards like the way that she practiced. 1 (24m 1s): And then I feel like it kind of went away for me. Like I think with a lot of like teenagers and kids, like you want to fit in and be cool. And like at least where I grew up in like upstate New York, it's definitely not cool to be like spiritual or talk about like, if you believe in karma or reincarnation or anything like that. So then I went through maybe like what you would call like an atheist phase as well where I was like, Oh, like, you know, nothing matters. We're just here. Like there's no meaning I was fine with that for a while. And then it was like a weird series of events. So we went to this thing called Biocybernaut and I like talk about it to death. Cause it was such a life changing weak for me. 1 (24m 44s): So it's essentially alpha brainwave training. So like how to get into flow, be a peak performer. I was pitched this life from a very practical sense. Like your business will benefit. Like you'll just be a better leader. All of these like, you know, very worldly benefits. Like nothing. We, we, we were mystical Biocybernaut okay. I it's like, honestly I tell everybody I meet. I actually got a girlfriend to go there. I'm and she did a week in VI at the Vancouver office, the same thing for her. She had like this insane experience. But everyone like that leaves a is going to take something different away from it and depends on who your, your teacher is for that week. 1 (25m 27s): So to give you like a quick summary of what it looks like, it's an undetermined amount of hours. So you go in and you'd check in on your phone. So you don't know how long you're going to be there for the day. They give you a quick overview overview, some like a quick little tasks to do like mental training. Then they stick you in this room that gets blackout dark. You're connected to a bunch of electrodes and it converts through the wall and gives you feedback auditorily. So like you can hear what parts of your brain are firing. So you, the whole time you're trying to like meditate to get it like a certain brainwave reaction and your in this box for like hours, you can't see anything, no ones there it's freezing. 1 (26m 9s): It's just you and your brainwaves. So its kind of similar. Are you weighing down? You're seated. Yep. Yep. You're seated. You can't be like dozing off. Cause like you can tell when you start dozing off, like it's like a mindful meditation practice for that meditation or the only folks on your breath are there. Like that was a crazy thing. I have, I had a really bad meditation practice going in and it has a lot of experience. They kind of just throw you in on day one and they're like just create alpha waves and you're like, well what do you mean? Like I don't even know what an alpha wave is. Like, do I hear something like, they just kind of want to see where you naturally go for like the first session. So we had two different chunks each day, like time blocks. 1 (26m 51s): So the first time block, it was just like your on your own, no guidance whatsoever. Just try to figure it out. And surprisingly you'd kind of do, which is really weird. So by the end of day one, they kind of explain a way that's like easier to get there, which is through forgiveness work. So for some reason when you practice the true act of forgiving to a cellular level you're brain just to kind of goes into this alpha state. So they want you to kind of feel what that feels like. And then you can kind of get there when you need to, like, if you have like a task that you want to like iron out or if you wanna try to get into flow of your, an athlete, just to recognize that feeling just so you can have like a sense of the feedback. 1 (27m 33s): So spending a week doing forgiveness work, like you've learned so much about yourself. It's kind of like when you were talking about looking inward versus outward. And I think like that's something that everybody can like learn from is, you know, it's the whole like internal, our internal locus of control versus like external. So like for example, I was got in a fight with my mom the other day and it could have easily been like, Oh, well she said this and that's why I reacted. And it's like, no, like I was bottling things up and I wasn't processing these things and a healthy way. So then I exploded. Right? So it's just like a very different way to experience the world. 1 (28m 16s): And I think if you focus in word that you just learned so much about who you are and then you really can't be mad at anyone else. So after a week of doing all of this, I kind of like rediscover who I am and I just feel lighter and happier and healthier. And I've forgiven all of these people in my life that was like holding on to like this really like negative way. And our instructor was actually like the founder of dark dr. Hart. And he's like very into like the whole mystical stuff. So he started introducing these concepts to me and I just like, I just dove in off the deep end. I was like, this is like the path that I'm supposed to be on. I'm supposed to be like crafting myself spiritually and like learning more about that and like leading like a, just a happier, lighter life and not looking externally. 1 (29m 5s): I was like, I was just walking through life. Like it's their fault. It's my mom's fault. It's my dad's fault. And you know, these people on social media, they're the reason I'm so angry. Like whatever it is and just kind of like left to a completely different person. So then we got home, we have a ShawMan now we do like, he comes to the house at least once a month. Like we're just like completely into it. But it was like, my husband got me to go to the whole retreat. Cause he was like, Oh, you'll make more money. Like he knew he was gonna get a little bit wuh and like mystical. And there was going to be like a lot like meditation. I have no clue, but it's the best thing I've ever done. Like hands down. 2 (29m 44s): That sounds amazing. So how long ago was this? Three years now. OK. And in those three years, can you, can we track things that you were doing before that you no longer do or track things that you weren't doing before that you now do? 1 (29m 59s): So I feel like it's anything else it's like a constant like learning and like reevaluating Cause anything else? Like you'll do great soon as you leave for maybe like the first two months, like your on this Hi and then I think its so easy to slip into old patterns, whether its like the way that you think or how you act or like maybe your social circle. But for me, like I would start noticing those slips and then I would like have to like quickly correct course and go back to where I wanted to be. So I think it's like constantly just trying to like stay within like the buoys, if you will. I mean, just like the other day when I said I got in a fight with my mom, it was like, not the way I wanted to react. I was like, Oh, like, this is not how I want my future self to show up. 1 (30m 38s): Right. Like I try to like, look at things like that way. Like how do you, how is your future self? How do they react to things? Who are there friends? What do they do? What do they think? All of that. So I was like very disappointed in myself, but I mean, those are going to happen cause we're humans and we make mistakes. So it was just being able to like recognize like those downward slips and then like re navigate back to where you want to be. 2 (30m 59s): Hmm. Yeah. Monkey mind scurries off those focal points. That's really cool. I love the follow up with you on that. That, is it something that they have multiple locations? Is it only okay. 1 (31m 17s): They have one in Vancouver, one in Sedona and then one in Germany. I did the one in Sedona. It was just like one of those things that was just like faded. Like we paid to do the D like the daily doubles for a week and we just like picked a random instructor. And then the guy dr. Hart, like he founded it it's his baby just happened to be there and he's like wildly expensive. If you book with him just happened to be there. And we just like got him at like this huge deal. And I was like, Oh my gosh. I just feel like I wouldn't have had like, such like an immense reaction to the whole experience. If it wasn't with him, just he's hit like such a unique and like intense person. 1 (31m 57s): And he was like, perfect for me. Like he's like the person I needed to kind of be my mentor. So it was any one else. I don't know how significant it would of been for me, but it was if it was just perfect. I couldn't recommend it enough. I totally was. Okay. 2 (32m 15s): That sounds like a monastery with data, you know, I don't think monks are running around. No, just to plug into your brain. I was like the same type of work. It's just, there is nothing 1 (32m 24s): Totally. And on average, the people that do the weekly doubles by the end of it, they have the same like control over their brainwaves and can reach like certain levels of alpha as a monk. That's been practicing for 20 years after one week doubles. Wow. It's wild. Yeah. Yeah. If that's like your jam, it's definitely something to check out for sure. 2 (32m 48s): Alright. Yeah. I'll, I'll definitely dive into that is something that I think you did this with your husband at the time. 1 (32m 55s): Yeah. You will either leave more in love than you thought was possible or you're going to leave divorced. Okay. 2 (33m 5s): Doing an acid trip with your significant other too. 1 (33m 11s): Definitely. You're like both like understand each other on like a totally different level. And you're like, you're either like, okay, like we were meant to be, or like, okay, this isn't going to last much longer. So let's just call it for what it is. 2 (33m 22s): Right. Okay. I'd love to explore. I have a girlfriend of, for months we met at the beginning, a quarantine remotely and after 10 days decided to move into a w with each other. So she flew from San Francisco to live with me in Atlanta. How did you guys, so you brought up that reality TV show it's called Love is Blind and she watched Love is Blind and I'm the first face that pops up and talks to you. And then I kind of disappeared from the show. So the premise of the show is can people fall in love without ever seeing each other? So you're interacting for a while. 2 (34m 3s): And the point of this show is to propose, cite on scene. So we get down on a ne on the other side, have a wall and say, will you spend the rest of your life with me? And I didn't do that. So I wasn't a big part of the show, but I was part of the early stages. And she, and I knew each other knew of each other in college. So she, from eight years ago, she's a space pump up and be like, I think I recognize that guy and find some out on social media and we go back and forth briefly on like text or whatever, but it almost immediately go into phone calls. And for 10 days we had no visual phone calls. 2 (34m 43s): We kinda did our own little Love is Blind experiment. 10 days only talking, we started talking like seven, eight, nine hours a day, like in one continuous conversation, she is on the West coast. I was basically staying up all night. She was staying up late. And we just felt like that maybe, maybe a similar feeling and what you felt when you were working with dr. Hart. I was just like, this was meant to be, there was some kind of serendipity I can't explain here. You know, I'm going to sound crazy if I try. So I'm just gonna to trust it and go with it. And no, the first time I saw her in person was when I picked her up the airport so that they, that she was moving on. 2 (35m 24s): And so we've been together coming up on for months now and she just got rid of her lease in San Francisco, put it, all of her stuff in a storage unit. And I picked her up in the airport last night. So we're, we're officially cohabitating now. But when you're talking about all this with bio cyber, not a is something that I'd love to try out with her. Yeah. We have a meditation practice every morning while coffee brews, we sit together and that's been such a powerful experience for, for us in a way to defuse fights where in the middle of, or a way to, they come closer together, there's something about working on our selves together. 2 (36m 7s): That is such a rewarding and important practice. And a, and this sounds like more of the same, just like a really intense, amplified, extreme version of it. 1 (36m 17s): Yeah, totally. I think that is something like more couples could use. It's it's weird. Cause like communicating is so difficult. For some reason it doesn't come natural to, I think a lot of couples, like they might be scared of being vulnerable or scared of hurting someone else's feelings or like repercussions of something that they might say. So there's like not like a true open line of communication. And I think if you have two people that have like this like growth mindset and they have like the same foundation of like beliefs, then I think the new you're almost like guaranteed to have like a happy, healthy relationship, but it's like too often, people don't want to expose themselves in that way. Like some people I can probably name half of my friends, I'd be like, Oh, I'd be way to like embarrassed to meditate with my partner, husband, whatever, to me, like, that's crazy as should be like the person you should be able to do anything in front of and not feel shame or embarrassment. 1 (37m 8s): I have always been just like an open book when it comes to relationships. Like how do you get to the point where like, Hey, like let's meditate while coffee brews. 2 (37m 17s): So I've definitely not always like, I don't think, I don't know if anyone comes out of the womb like that. If someone has, I'd love to talk to you, that would be an interesting person. But now, now it takes wraps like anything else it's training, you know, it's time input and reps. There's no way around it. If you want to get better at something, there is no substitute. There are new Ford guts. You have put time in, even what you brought up. This is not attendant as a call out by any means, but what you brought up like, Hey, for two months after a bio cyber CyberKnife, I was like, spot on. Like I was, I was in it. And like, you can have a really intense experience that I have this the same alpha level has a monk while you're there in person. 2 (38m 1s): But in order to retain that and make it a part of who you are, you need to weave it into your everyday life. You are always going to have access to the sensory deprivation, cyber mode, you know, facility. Right. You got to build that in your, your yourself. Otherwise it's just gonna eventually go up. So yeah, I think, I mean back to your question, I think know, and that was taken at a time and repetition and taking these little leaps of faith of like, this person might think I'm super weird, but like, Hey, have you tried? Breathwork do you want hyperventilate with each other, whatever. And in general, like I think this is one of the secrets of life that people don't really talk about much, but if your, the first person to be vulnerable and be open and the kind of making a fool of yourself, it's such a gift to everyone else because you open up the space and the permission for them to be like, Oh, I can act a fool too. 2 (38m 60s): I can be open about my childhood trauma to where I can talk about my past relationships and having sex with other people and whatever to. So if you, if you just kind of like own, it was like, Hey, this is who I, and I'm like, I'm going to anyone just like everyone else. I make mistakes and hear some of my mistakes. It's it kind of like gives this safety and space in and permission to do the same. 1 (39m 27s): No, I totally agree. So I was reading some of your blogs about while you were filming and you had like a couple of lines that I thought were like really interesting. Well, first like your rules, I think it was really cool that you went in with like rules that you wanted to try to maintain. Even though I think you said you broke all three, right? Which we were like the no alcohol. Don't talk about your dates with other people. I know group thinking, which I thought was really cool because I think you see a lot of that right now, or at least it's amplified just because our thoughts are now visual because of like Twitter and Instagram. So like we're, we get to see what everyone's thinking or at least like a percentage of the population. So for me, like how do you, I guess, why did you make the rules and then how do you avoid like a group thinking? 2 (40m 14s): Hm. Okay. So one, thanks for reading my blog. We were one of like, maybe for people and you're in my mom. So the alcohol thing was just like mitigate risk, right? Like I know myself on alcohol. I looked at fun around my friends drinking. Like, do I want potentially millions of what turned into tens or hundreds of millions of people watching Netflix with me being an idiot. I was like, no, my decision making is going to suffer. That's the point of alcohol is to lose your inhibitions sometimes. And the patients are a good thing, especially when you're representing yourself, your family, you're a company and everything else, right. 2 (40m 57s): In a big way. So I didn't break that rule. There are a few shots where I am holding a beer and we cheers and we drink that was facilitated by producers, but they had an unlimited amount of alcohol on set. Like if something got down to a fourth of whiskey left, there was another one right behind that. Like, like people we're, I think drunk or the whole time men, I was there for some people. So like really why I stuck to that? I will say, and this is a personal preference. Everyone's different. But if you're trying to do self work and if you're trying to build a relationship with someone else, I think either limiting or eliminating substances from that experience is a really good foundation to build. 2 (41m 41s): And it started to introduce them when you become more comfortable and confident with each other. And I think relationships with yourself kind of worked the same way as relationships with someone else. So like if you're trying to do self work, personal development work and substances are currently a part of that, just experiment with trying a week. It, it might be hard or the beginning, but like try eliminating that and see what kind of progress you make. Even if it is a little bit more painful there, you can always reintroduced that kind of stuff back in later. Okay. Let's smoke together to see what happens, but there's already a foundation to fall back on there. So that's the substance thing. The second rule was, don't talk about my dates. Like I knew I was that walking into a, a, a, an inherently dramatic situation and there is going to be a lot of drama instigated outside of my control. 2 (42m 25s): So what I could control was what I said. So what I decided to talk about was okay, myself, my nonprofit Chess boxing. I didn't stir up any drama because I knew that we were all competing over the same group of a, of a woman. So I just didn't want to pour any fuel on that fire. And I ended up on the show falling for the same woman that another guy did. And so we in a love triangle, he and I actually ended up teaming up. So I inherently had the, to talk about that with him. And I still kept away from doing it with, with everyone else. So the last one, and I think this one's especially important now, and I don't just mean now like cocaine dude and, and, and protests, all that kind of stuff. 2 (43m 13s): But now it just in an era of social media, what it was so easy to be influenced and consume content that could be great or could be detrimental. It's really important to you to invest in your own moral compass and, and get to know yourself. Cause w without, without that kind of directional awareness and knowing who you are, you're going to go from shepherd a shepherd, you know, you're gonna, you're kinda going to be a sheep. That's, that's just kind of led through life, maybe buy the same shepherd or a whole life, or maybe from, from different ones. Cause he aren't really gonna know like, Hey, I'm an, I'm a sheep, but I can, you know, I could evolve. 2 (43m 57s): I could, I'm going to be more than This. So I think, I think investing in the bio cyber, not kind of thing, or going and spending some time at a monastery or going in and just getting a freaking a therapist, like, you know, writing the check, showing up, owning it and starting to do that, work on stuff that you don't even know that you've bottled up. You don't even know where the blockages are, but I think that's the first step to leaving group and behind Cause once he know who you are, you know, what fits with and no, it doesn't, and you might still be group thinking, but it'll be with, with a group that's much in line with who you are and who you want to be. It's going to be easier to recognize, Hey, these, these thought patterns, these people, these, this group doesn't resonate with my best self and who I'm striving to be. 1 (44m 45s): Right. It's like more of a conscious decision. 2 (44m 48s): Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You can be a little bit more in control of what you consume and how you add. So yeah, I, I, I, I spent those five days on the five silent day's in the monastery about a week they're in total, right before I walked on a set for love is blind. So it was night and day. Like I literally had 72 hours between when I flew back from Thailand. So when I walked on set up a Pinewood, 1 (45m 18s): Probably it was probably amplified to then write like a lot of people's behaviors. Cause you're, you're going from like this very like Zen introspective, a scenario to everyone is like me, me, me, and alcohol. 2 (45m 32s): That was crazy. Like the justice one position could not of been more in depth. And I feel so lucky like that wasn't really the plan. It just kinda happened that way. But I, I never had a better sense of who I was, what my trauma was, how to open up the people Cause I just opened up to myself like, is it prime me and all the right ways. And that was able to share that with other people who were like falling apart. And I was like sober pretty well rested, you know, like could, could share like, Hey, make me think about it this way. Or you don't have to beat yourself up too much. Like the nice to yourself, like a little, little things turned me into a kind of a, a helpful force on, on calf. 2 (46m 17s): I prefer to do that. Then hurtful 1 (46m 21s): My favorite. I think my favorite thing that you wrote about in your blog was the Apple crisp situation. I was like if more people had this perspective with how much healthier, what relationships B. So I guess, do you want to like catch people up like really quick on what that would, that the Apple crisp situation, 2 (46m 40s): You know, it's not This slump the similar from the fight you have with your mom. Yeah. So I guess the basic thing that was at play with the Apple Kris was making something about me that didn't need to be about mint. Right? And instead of seeing something as, as what it was, which was a really positive, generous act, I thought as an a, as a personal attack. So the context was the first day that we could send gifts back and forth across the facility to the people that we were dating. Danielle, the person that both Rory and I fell for sent two gifts. One was a private gift just between me and her in, in, in our little dating pond. 2 (47m 23s): She sent me a yoga mat and let a yoga flow. I'm a certified yoga instructor. We connected on the yoga cause she is too. It was like an awesome gift. When I came back from that date, there was an Apple Chris sitting on the kitchen counter and it was for roaring and worry is that he has a dietary restrictions. He wasn't able to eat a lot of the food that we ate. And so Danielle B in the sweetheart, or that she is cooked on a vegan Apple criss for worry that, but he could eat and it would be tasty in good and all that kind of stuff. And I immediately saw that as a threat. I was like, that gift means that she has feelings for someone else. And I got possessive and jealous and competitive and all those things. 2 (48m 5s): And it took basically sitting like I'm going to be meditation. And like seeing that situation for war angle's to realize like, Oh, I'm, I'm being a self centered a*****e here. So this was an act of generosity because we were in a candy, she has feelings for him too. They might be romantic. Like they are for me, they might be friendly in which day she can still, you know, she can cook either of those people in Apple, Chris, and it has nothing to do with me. So earlier a producer's that try to get us into an interview about the Apple crisp. And I basically just kinda of like shut it down. I was like, I'm not hungry right now. I just had an avocado that I made something. 2 (48m 47s): And then after I'd sat, I was like, okay, I'm read it. And we sat down through the interview and went up and I grab the Apple crisp one to four it's I'm put it in between us. And I explained that that same kind of thought process. I was like, listen, man, like, we both fell for our incredible girl. I can't blame you. You can't blame me. And she is ultimately going to make the decision that's best for her. So let's not try to compete with each other. Like whoever wins actually gets Danielle, like Danielle is a person. Like it's not something to be one. And you know, it's someone a, so let's just be on team Danielle. We were each other's best friends on the show prior to finding out about Danielle. And that could have changed that, but it didn't, we just decided like, okay, we're going to show as much of ourselves with Danielle as possible. 2 (49m 31s): So she can make as informed of a decision as possible. And then we'll support that decision. And we'll still be friends with each other. There's other fish in the sea. I don't want to be in love or, or with someone that doesn't want to love, love, or be with me. So let her make the decision and move forward. And that, that diffused a lot of a potential drama that could have arrived from that situation. And is probably why Danielle Rorion I was featured on the show 1 (49m 60s): To be friendly. 2 (50m 1s): Yeah. Yeah. I think that the word, the world may not be as entertaining if, if people act in that way, but I think people would be happier and more hold it. If people were able to see situations that way 1 (50m 16s): To why you were saying like that in that, like, once you took that time to sit that you were like free from jealousy and attachment, and I love that you specified attachment. Cause for me, I find that a lot of people, when it comes to like romantic relationships, they have like this possessiveness over the person, like that's my person. I own that person. And that's why a lot of people are in monogamous relationships or a lot of people have jealousy issues, whatever it is. Like I know girls that aren't even allowed to go out without their significant, significant other, like can't even go out for like a girl's night, whatever, because the jealousy is so intense. 1 (50m 56s): So I guess, and I get asked this a lot from a lot of my male viewers is like, how would you start to tackle like jealousy and attachment? Like for someone that like recognizes that it's like an unhealthy habit that they're in, like, how do you deal with like that visceral reaction? And then try to like eventually work it out. 2 (51m 17s): I'm going to through those. I bet any, any guys watching this, if you don't think you're going through this, you just aren't in a situation where you care enough about someone or, or it hasn't bubbled up for you yet, but we all have it. It's normal is something that talk about like, is it usually stems from some sort of insecurity, inadequacy or abandonment from our past not being good enough, right? If your partner is looking at someone else or wants to be with someone else is taken as a personal attack, I'm not good enough. I can't satisfy in that way. You're looking elsewhere when really it could have nothing to do with you right now. 2 (51m 59s): It could be an addition instead of, because of a deficit, I'm trying to fill that whole. So I think my answer to this now that I'm qualified to necessarily give advice on this. I'm definitely still navigating this, but I'm in the first exclusive committed relationship. Now that I've been an in five years. So I'm definitely still navigating this. But I think, I think the answer is the same and probably will be the same for any kind of personal development questions. Like This the store with yourself. I have abandonment issues from a kid. My parents separated when I was nine months old. My dad took himself out a situation and similarly had a mother path past relationships, all feel like someone was leaving me. 2 (52m 46s): And that's how I perceive that. So, you know, digging into, at least knowing why you're having these feelings will really help you like wrap your head around them and not be like, you know, this is all my fault. You know, this, this, this exists for, for a reason, like its it's for you to do, to overcome and go through, not ignore and, and project on to others because really that, that suffering that's inside. You was coming out on others. Your, your partner probably wants to go out and have a fun girl's night with her friends and you're keeping her from doing that. Cause he aren't digging into your s**t like, Oh, open up that, that feeling of that, that bag and then shuffle around on there and see it, see what comes out Cause cause otherwise you're, you're going to be limiting, not just your partner, but yourself, you know, he might push someone away, but otherwise would be a great partner for ya. 2 (53m 37s): So I don't think anything would be more important than, than doing the self work. It's not, it's not her problem wanting to go out and have fun with her friends or, or, or even the talk to other guys. It's your problem on it. 1 (53m 53s): Yup. Yeah. That's just, that's a really good advice. 2 (53m 58s): Yeah. What's your experience with that? That World, I'm sure you have a lot more reps. 1 (54m 2s): Yeah, we should definitely have a lot of reps a lot. So it's really weird because I used to be the most jealous person on the face of the planet. Like the Mo like just wildly unhealthy level on that level of jealousy. And I think a lot of that had to do with insecurity. A lot of it had to do with the modeling that I kind of saw growing up, like just my examples. And I just thought that was normal. So I had, I have similar like abandonment issues. So there was, you know, a fear of loss. And I think I placed like so much of my self worth in how my partner like saw me. So if there was no partner, then there was no worth kind of things. 1 (54m 46s): So it was just like this whole, like a perfect storm of work that I had to like kind of confront and like programming that I had to undo. Cause it's like, okay, well this isn't actually what I think. Or like these, aren't the principles that I want to, I want to live by, right? Like I'm not happy. Like I would be like neurotic about going through phones or where is this person? And then eventually you have a person that might not be cheating that starts cheating. Right. Cause it's like, well, if you're gonna suffer the consequences and they might as well do it for do what they want. And then I finally met someone that kind of like challenged me on these things and a goal you're acting like irrational, like this isn't healthy. I love you, but you're pushing me away. 1 (55m 29s): And then I was kind of like forced to kind of confront like my own like shortcomings, like bad behaviors. And it took a while and then it took me getting into the adult industry and then like having that conversation with him, like, okay, well what does this mean for us? What does this mean for like a relationship? Because so many people define a relationship by being monogamous. So if you're not monogamous, then you are not in relationship or you're not serious or you're not committed. And then I think what we found along the way as like that doesn't necessarily have to be true. Like you can be in a committed relationship and then B in something that's not monogamous, it could be Polly, you can be open, you can be swingers, whatever it is. 1 (56m 9s): I think commitment looks differently to everybody. And I think it's important to, to just kind of like outline what our, like the parameters of this relationship. Like, what do I expect of you? What do you expect of me? And we can come to an agreement that works for both of us and then hopefully just respect each other's boundaries. And I think the problem is a lot of people have like this cookie cutter idea of what those boundaries should be. And rather than saying, well, actually I don't care about this or this doesn't really bother me. Or I look at Love in this other way. So like making it more personal and like having those talks with your partner again, cause like, I mean, I know women that men can't go to a Hooters, right? 1 (56m 53s): Like I personally find that absurd, but like the concept of even looking at the opposite sex is like a, is a no, no. So for my, my definition of love is, is freedom. Like at like unconditional love is freedom. So I think it's every day making that decision to be committed to that person, to love that person, to take care of them. You know what I mean? Like in, for the long haul. So I think that the way that we have our relationship, which is it's open, it's not like, you know, either of us are out every night with somebody else. Like we both hadn't been with anyone else in like years just cause it just hasn't happened. Cause it's not like a forced thing, but I feel like there's a lot more security that comes from the way that we look at it because it's like, if someone does have a physical relationship outside of like the two of us, it's not a deal breaker, it's not all of a sudden we're getting divorced. 1 (57m 49s): And then all of a sudden our child has to be in two homes. Right? Like it's, it's, Love beyond that. It's Love beyond the jealousy it's Love and beyond like myself. Right. I dunno. It just, it's so hard to like, just to put into a sentence, but I just find, I find a lot more security when there's freedom. Ironically, 2 (58m 8s): I think he did a great job that that should be a cliff, like start an end. I think people need to hear that is not going to, it's not going to fit for everyone. Not everybody associates Love with freedom, but a lot of conversations with my girlfriend, our around freedom guy over the last five years, I went to what I wanted to connect with, who I wanted, what I wanted. It, it, it was, it was a very free life. And so part of what I'm reconciling right now is, is how do I marry that freedom to commitment and in what, what are those commitments that I'm comfortable with and what are the ones that, that don't fit me? And so a lot of our conversations kind of surround that and I love the way you put, you know, Love beyond jealousy and attachment for the, for the sake of something that's bigger than yourself. 2 (58m 58s): Like, Hey, just because one of us get swept up in the moment or, or feel something for someone else, it doesn't mean that our, a kid asked to live in two homes. It's a really good dose of perspective of like what really matters here. And so, you know, it sounds like having the freedom liberates you from having to exercise it, whereas having a bit confinement, make you want to rebel against that confinement and do it. If that, is that a fair assessment? Is that over simplifying? 1 (59m 25s): No, not at all. And I feel like, cause it was in the beginning, it was so funny Cause my husband was, is this a trick, like, am I going to get in trouble? Like, does she really mean it? So he would be too nervous to even like consider acting on like our arrangement of like, you know, if you do want to, you know, go out and do your thing, like, that's fine. I was traveling a lot for work at the time. Like when I say a lot, like, I mean 25 to 27 days a month. So it was kind of like a, just like, I want you to like still enjoy your life and have fun. And he was like, there's no way she actually means this. Like, she's going to go crazy. Like it, this is a trick, whatever. And then once he got over the initial fear, I feel like it was almost like he played around with it. 1 (1h 0m 8s): But just like knowing it was, there was enough, like it lost all of its I guess appeal because it no longer was like a taboo thing. So I mean, no one would believe it, but like, it's been like probably less than a handful of occasions and this has been over, I don't know, seven years, so. Wow. Yeah. I know. So I think when you say, when you say open people automatically assume that we're both just being like totally promiscuous and it's, you know, this free for all. And there is no way that there's actually like this love and commitment. It's just saying like, I understand you are human. You understand that I'm human. If we truly want to like, mean what we say, when we say like, till death do us part, we have to understand like, we are both going to f**k up several times. 1 (1h 0m 53s): Like probably like an increment amount of times throughout this marriage. Right. And it's not necessarily always going to be infidelity. It's going to be an, a whole mess of ways, especially when you're raising a child. So we look at the whole open concept, like across the board, right? It's like, you're allowed to be human. You're allowed to make mistakes and guess what? Like, I'm still going to be here and we're going to work on this together. So if you sleep with somebody else, like I'm not going anywhere. If it becomes a problem, we can talk about it. We can fix it and we can create new boundaries. If you mess up in some way as like the IC you're parenting, right. Again, like I'm still going to be here and we can navigate that and like kind of problem solve together. 1 (1h 1m 33s): So I think we just kind of take that lens and apply it throughout the entire marriage, like as our philosophy or how we want to be as a couple on how we want to be as parents. And it's like understanding that there are flaws and there are going to be mistakes. And we have to try to avoid that knee jerk reaction of like, you did something wrong to me. So now I have to leave. Right. Cause it, again, it goes back to like saying Mimi me and having like this egocentric way of looking at relationships, instead of saying like, okay, like we're, we're one, right? Like we are one, like this is a family unit. So like you have to kinda take the ego outside of it. And when you remove the ego, like you kind of find jealousy, not really appearing as much. 1 (1h 2m 14s): It just naturally happens. 2 (1h 2m 16s): What a beautiful way to look at a relationship and look life it's really inspiring. I hope more people pure that, adopt that and apply it. I also think it can be applied beyond a marriage. Totally. But we're, we're all one. We all, we all make mistakes. Something that can do to someone else I'm actually doing it myself. Yeah. It was a really, really difficult thing to do. But going in with the permission to fail is liberating and it, and it leads to much better results have to fear and stress and anxiety of, I f**k up. I lose everything, 1 (1h 2m 50s): Right? Like one mistake could cost me my family. Like how awful is that a way to live? I was living in fear 2 (1h 3m 1s): And, and the other important thing is just because you can, it doesn't mean he will. A lot of people take that as like, Oh, like I get a, get out of jail free card or I, I get a whole pass, like time to go tramping around or whatever. And 1 (1h 3m 18s): No, 2 (1h 3m 20s): I think that, I think people tend to take, some people tend to take the worst version of what it could mean, which is, Oh, I'm going to open a relationship. Which means I'm just resigning to being cheated on for the rest of my life. No, it was pump the breaks there. It doesn't have to mean that if we do mess up it's okay. 1 (1h 3m 42s): Exactly. Exactly. It's the more freedom you have, just the more solid of a commitment there is a more like secure that relationship is because again, like you both have made it clear. We're both allowed to fail. Right. 2 (1h 3m 59s): Is it important message. Thank you for sharing that. 1 (1h 4m 1s): Hey, of course. So I am here. So I always like to end with asking if you believe in fate or destiny. 2 (1h 4m 10s): Yeah. So 1 (1h 4m 14s): Casual closer, 2 (1h 4m 16s): Have you read the Alchemist? 1 (1h 4m 19s): No. 2 (1h 4m 21s): Oh, Candice write it down. Paulo Coelho. You'll knock it out into three days. It's a children's book, but its, it is the most important book I've ever read it. And I reread it every year. It's about a shepherd boy named Santiago has a recurring dream that leads him to sell a sheep and go out and pursuit of what the author calls a personal legend, but what really means fate or destiny. So all of us have a voice inside our head. All of us talked to ourselves, all of us have this inner dialogue. And if you pay attention to that inner dialogue, you start to recognize some patterns. 2 (1h 5m 3s): And at least one of those patterns that you'll recognize is some sort of calling. It's a call to action. If you aren't already on purpose on path, then there are, there is something conspiring to help you get onto that purpose. And that path is the premise of the book. So I adopt that and live that and feel that <inaudible> and breathe that every day. It's it, it's something where once I was exposed to that idea, similar to other things we've talked about in this conversation, it, it was impossible to unknown that, right? Like once I heard it and it was real, then I couldn't, I couldn't ignore it. I couldn't get away from it. It was something that I knew it was true. 2 (1h 5m 45s): And, and once, once that belief kind of set in once that seed was planted, I couldn't stop it from growing. So things like Brawl for a Cause things like Chess boxing things like now fighting flow, like what I'm building now, all of those things are so fully me, but I couldn't possibly create those things for myself. They weren't things that like, you know, I didn't go out doing a Google search for combining Chess with boxing, right? It, it, it manifested in my life because I, I figured out who I am. I listen to that voice and I started asserting myself as that person. 2 (1h 6m 28s): And the World kind of conspires around that kind of assertion in, in my experience. And I think a lot of people who get into that alchemists kind of thought process or our belief system experienced the same type of, of life and, and purpose that, that there is something to all of this, even though we don't understand it, acknowledging that it's there is important and that the, whatever the state is, has some sort of rules of engagement. Karma is one of them. You know, every, every belief system has an element of karma, even science. You know, you look at Christianity during the others as you'd have them do on to you, you'll get the East and, and literal karma, yin and yang action and reaction. 2 (1h 7m 12s): And it, and you look at Newton's third law, a reaction, I was an equal and opposite reaction is the same. It's saying the same thing. So once you adopt that belief system and be like, OK, there is something to all of this, then destiny and fate is a very, a natural next step to that. If there is something to all of this, then there is something to all this, you know, whatever my, my life is is, is to tell a story or to learn a lesson or to fall in love or whatever you decide to assign meaning to your life. And I think there's a degree of uncovering and self work that comes before that. But I think it's an accountability. 2 (1h 7m 54s): If you decide, Hey, I want my life to have meaning and purpose, then your, your, your destiny follows. Okay. 1 (1h 7m 60s): That's beautiful. You put that perfectly. Yeah, no, I kind of figured that was you were going to go that direction. Just like someone who like makes the decisions that you do. And like you explaining, like you're, Chess boxing and you know, meeting this girl in quarantine, you guys already living together. It just seems like you kind of recognize like these almost like little notifications. You're like, okay, I'm going to do that. I'm going to take that. That's the right way to go. 2 (1h 8m 25s): Oh, is that that's a good way to put it. Yeah. If you don't look at your phone, you won't see any notifications coming up. You know, I, I'm not, I'm not advising to look at your phone more, imagine your soul as the screen, have a phone, like be open to receiving those notifications and then deciding what to do with some of them are for you. So as a mom and it's, and it's your, I think that's where free will comes in. If you're going to have cycles of temptation and trials, that, that are up to you to overcome and pursuit of your personal legend of your destiny. Okay. 1 (1h 9m 2s): Right. Like almost like a test, like, okay, you say you want this one thing, so I'm going to present you. The thing that you said that you want, and I'm going to present you this other thing and which one are you going to take? You know what I mean? 2 (1h 9m 14s): He is going to look super tasty. Yeah. And it's gonna, it's probably gonna recycle something from your past where you made that decision in the bath and you went into it and there's a pleasure associated, but there's ultimately pain. Cause it led you away from your, your destiny. And you're going to see those things. Life is kind of like a video game. You're going to see those things level after level, after level, they're going to keep coming into your life, keep testing yet to keep. And you're going to have to overcome those trials again. And again, like anything else, time and repetitions, you're going to get better and better and better at taking those things on, navigating them positively and staying on a path. And as the same, if you sit for meditation, your mind keeps wandering. 2 (1h 9m 57s): You're going to get better at staying focused. We're removing layers and drilling down past the ego to your core and in life. It's no different, okay. 1 (1h 10m 8s): Well, this was incredible, especially cause it was the first time we actually have like spoken anything other than text. Thank you so much for joining me. Okay. 2 (1h 10m 17s): Hundred percent. Yeah. I want to be friends. 1 (1h 10m 20s): Yeah, me too. Yeah. As soon as like we're allowed to like travel and like actually interact, I would, Oh, I wanted to ask too. How did you meet Brandon? 2 (1h 10m 28s): So Brandon and I are both part of the same community I've been in it for four years now is he just joined a month or two ago is called lifestyle engineers. It's a, it's a group of digital nomads and entrepreneurs in that design their lifestyle the way they want to live life and, and share experience and, and systems. So I'm kind of a black sheep in the community because most of the people in, in the community are a very data driven, have a lot more analytical backgrounds where they're tracking every little thing that they do and are able to share like data regressions of their morning routine over the course of 18 months or whatever. 2 (1h 11m 10s): I live my life almost completely intuitively I'll do the same kind of AB testing, but I won't do it with data. I'll do it with, with the emotions and feelings. So anyway, Brandon recently applied and got admitted. And one of the other, one of the founders of the group that a, like a warm introduction between the two of us Cause, he's working on building a new company that has a very similar mission to Brawl for cost. So it was like, Hey, just talk. And we hop on a few phone calls kind of when Brad was in a pretty serious transition and it was, and it's a relationship and in business, I'm in it. They were both transitions that I had some experience with. And so I gave him some unsolicited advice and it was like, Hey, I wanna come down and visit. 2 (1h 11m 54s): Yes. So the last weekend, yeah. Last weekend he drove down to Atlanta and spent the weekend with me. We got to know each other better and are collaborating on something professionally and are definitely, you know, personal friends moving forward. So it was a great little group of people. We have people living in five continents. There is only like 26 or 27 of us, but you know, any, anywhere you go abroad, there is either someone to like, stay with us or someone that's been there that can give you a recommendations or so on to come meet you. They're. So like one of the people, our own hotels in Romania and England. And so I have stayed with him a couple of times and stay I don't to India with a few of them and all that kind of stuff. 2 (1h 12m 37s): So anyway, cool, cool group people. And there's nothing more important than life then relationships. Like if you're, if you're sharing resources for a relationships in a positive way, you're doing it right. And if you're, if you're doing the trade off where you're hurting relationships, by trying to gather resources, challenge that, that there's nothing more important than love and spending your life with other people. 1 (1h 12m 59s): It's beautiful. And I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. Yeah. It was M it was great meeting you. I will definitely stay in touch. Hopefully when this is all over, we can actually meet in person. Yeah, for sure. You're a about Brandon, right? 2 (1h 13m 13s): Cool. Yeah, no, I'll be up in your neck of the woods. Did you ever come to LA? 1 (1h 13m 17s): We'll do we'll have a good day. Thanks. Candice was wonderful on that's it for this weeks episode. I hope you enjoyed it. If you have the time please rate and review and you can always hit subscribe to stay up to date with our latest episodes. I hope to have you back 0 (1h 13m 35s): <inaudible>.