The United Nations quotes human trafficking as the hidden figure of crime, with estimates showing that only 0.04% of survivors of human trafficking cases are identified. Our guest for today, Eliza Bleu, is one such survivor who miraculously survived a tragic case of human trafficking right here in the US. As a 17-year-old minor, Eliza moved to LA with big dreams of becoming a star. Forty-eight hours later, the man who promised her heaven on earth sold her to another man for a mere $500. Today Eliza is an advocate combating human, sex, and child trafficking, an industry worth $150 billion. In this episode, Eliza and I discuss facts and figures around human trafficking, detecting child sexual abuse material online, and the Stockholm syndrome in human trafficking.
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0 (0s): I was mad to this morning because no, a publication had covered the second Survivor minor Survivor that step forward to, to Sue Twitter. So I was a daily collard and Today did the daily caller did, or the daily wire. I want to say it was daily caller. It was let me check. Well, because I was on there, took US every journalist, trust me, these journalists know they know what it is with me almost beast. I was on them on a weekend. I started on a Friday and just would not let them let up with them. They were like, Oh, this girl's annoying, but I'm an advocate. I'm an activist. You know what I mean? I'm crazy. So just, so this is the advocate me is a very strong, like I'm like, but the Survivor me is sometimes still a weak just sometimes, you know, I think you're right. 0 (52s): It was the daily wire. Yeah. I wasn't giving them a choice. I was like, you're writing about this today. I would ask you to do, you know, crazy that like, that's how you get it done. 1 (1m 5s): Hello, everybody, your listening to Chatting with Candice, I'm your host, Candice, for back before we get started on this week's episode, if you want to support the podcast, you can go to Chatting with Candice staff com and click that little link that says, buy me coffee or the patron. A couple of the things help me on a ton. Another simple way to support the podcast is simply by leaving a five star review and to comment sharing with a friend, all of those things help with the algorithm. So I really appreciate it this week. I want to give a shout out to Patrion users, X, the river and Jap group. Thank you so much for being patron members. It really means a lot to me, all very exciting stuff. 1 (1m 49s): And the last shout out that we are going to do is going to be tomorrow and F thank you for buying me a cup of coffee. You rock. I really appreciate it. I'm so this week's episode is going to be a little bit heavier. It's something that I really care about. So we are having a Eliza Bleu on the podcast. Eliza Bleu is a human trafficking survivor, and she is also now an advocate. She does a lot of work, I guess, trying to bring awareness, help survivors and stop these atrocities from happening. So it's a serious conversation. We definitely have a little bit of fun, but it's a heavier topic. 1 (2m 31s): So I just wanted to give you that little precursor before we dive in. I really appreciate it. And I do want to plug my friend's nonprofit. So if you do this pulls at your heart strings, or it's something that, you know, you feel a connection and you want to kind of help. You can go to justice, ventures.org, and in the donate button box, you can type in an ORC and that's for operation rescue children, all of the proceeds go to helping children, that victims of trafficking, where you can go to child rescue coalition as well. But that's one of my favorite nonprofits. So let's dive into this conversation. I really appreciate you taking the time to listen about something that's really important. 1 (3m 12s): So let's get to it. I'm 2 (3m 14s): Really glad that we got connected on Twitter. It was really funny because I think for some reason, our worlds don't don't tend to meet, you know what I mean? Like you were like, Oh, I'm in the DMS. You'd be like, I'm not a <inaudible>. And I'm like, well, if you weren't fine, like I'm not opposed to talking to people that are right. But for some reason I have another girlfriend that's pretty vocal about being an advocate for specifically people that were trafficked for sex work. Yeah. And specifically minor's, and everyone's like, Oh, you can't post that. And she's like, why not? It's something that I care about. And I'm just trying to spread awareness to it. And for some reason, if you're in like my line of work or any other, you know, I guess like, I hate the word sex work for porn, but that it is what it is, I guess. 2 (4m 2s): So, as I say, willing adult entertainers, right. I, I, I think that there is a difference, but I'm not judging. I think of any, you know, adult can do what they want as long as you're not hurting anyone, but that whole display Mer, but I just, don't why we also can, you know, bring awareness too. I think it's a very important subject. Yeah. And I was really excited when I found out that you are actually a Survivor because I have had a couple people on that were that do a lot of work in that field. So I had a Carly, you start Yoast on who's the CEO of child rescue coalition, and they do amazing work. And then I had Keith Wagner on it and he's also the founder of operation rescue children. So he works a lot with underground railroad and preparing like law enforcement to handle these kinds of situations. 2 (4m 48s): And if people, but I haven't been able to talk to someone like you, who is actually experienced it. And I feel like that's such a missing piece when it comes to this conversation is that there's actually humans behind those that are being affected. Right. And it's not, it's not political and it's not a myth. And unfortunately, I think with 2020, it was kind of a paradox because I've never seen it highlighted so much. Right. We were talking about specifically a lot with a sex trafficking and, and child trafficking. But then also on the flip side, we were hearing that it's a myth. And then, so here's someone living, breathing who is, unfortunately it had to go through this hell. 2 (5m 29s): So thank you so much for giving me your time. 0 (5m 31s): Well, thank you for having me. There's already a lot to unpack there. And so I definitely make a difference. Like I definitely try to differentiate between willing adult entertainers. So that would be anybody that's doing willing adult pornography, or, you know, Kim, Kim, I don't want to say cam girl and cause guys can do it too. Right? So camming, you know, being, you know, an exotic dancer, something of that nature, you know, fetishes, that's a, and then there is a willing adults sex work right now. So that would be where you are actually having sex or doing something sexual in person. And then there's survival sex, survival sex is where you're doing, you know, you're having sex for a food clothes, medicine shelter, and then there's human trafficking. 0 (6m 20s): So I always like to differentiate because there is a huge difference. And one thing that's been a little bit unique about my specific message is that I'm not a anti willing adult pornography and I'm actually not even willing adult sex work to me when you start lumping in all of that stuff in muddies, the water is a lot, right? So I keep it solely to, because I firmly believe that folks can do that willingly and enjoy their job. And I don't necessarily think that someone has to come from a household or abuse or trauma and be a Survivor like me to do that type of work. So that's been a little bit unique. I've had a lot of pushback from all sides. 0 (6m 60s): I could care less. This is just how I see things as far as being a say, Oh, in our rescue, Oh you are, we, I did a cool event with them in early December. In, in Atlanta, Georgia, we did the longest Tesla car parade, the longest electric car parade for a Guinness book of world records. And we raised $10,000 for them. And I was so excited that in the middle of a pandemic, we still figured out a way to raise money for those kids. So there is a really cool organization, but yet being a Survivor, its kind of, you know, I don't know it is. It's weird because I didn't realize until I started talking about things on Twitter, how much people wanted to know a Survivor, get to talk to a survivor. 0 (7m 51s): I didn't realize that there was a gap. There, there are a lot of public Survivor leaders and, and I didn't realize that folks wanting to know more like they wanted to hear from a survivor. So I was like, okay. So then I started kind of talking about it a lot where we ran into difficulty in 2020 was that folks were not sticking to the facts. Right? They were, and they were also hyper-focused on a, the elites or things that we can't change and I'm really going down rabbit holes. So I was really trying very hard to navigate that conversation and just stick to the facts. Do we have enough facts out there? 0 (8m 33s): The human trafficking hotline has been collecting statistics and data for over 10 years. So we don't need to go down the rabbit hole or do you know what I mean? I need to be embellish, no extra sauce. We don't need any extra sauce on it. Right? Like it's bad enough on its own. I think that the Epstein situation really woke a lot of people up. I'm grateful to those survivors. I consider some of them very close, personal friends and colleagues, but we can't stop the conversation there. You know what I mean? We can't stop the conversation there. One area I have had a little bit of pushback is a, you know, willing adult entertainers really sometimes. 0 (9m 13s): Okay. I've had a lot of love from some willing adult entertainers, right? A lot of love. Like I've had a lot of a willing adult entertainers speak out and say, we don't want this child sexual abuse material. We don't want this human trafficking in our, like in our industry. We don't want it affiliate it with our brand. I feel like what it does when we talk about willing adult entertainment is what it does. Is it muddies the water for a willing adult entertainers as well. You don't want to be a S I mean we don't entertain. You're going to want that are affiliated with their brand. 2 (9m 46s): Do you think that that's intentional when people do that or do you think it's ignorance? 0 (9m 52s): Well, I try not to speak for other people. I think it's a double-edged sword. I think that folks are difficult. Have a difficult time processing nuance. They have a difficult time understanding of the crime. They try to lump everything all in together. It's not that simple. It's just not human trafficking exists where pornography is illegal child, sexual abuse, material exists. We're willing adult pornography. This is illegal. So in human trafficking does as well. In fact, I would go a step further and say that in areas where pornography is illegal, a human trafficking is worse in North Korea. 2 (10m 36s): Oh. So I'm not familiar with a ton of the statistics. I was trying to refresh my mind because I had a Carly on when I first started the podcast. So it's, it's been a while, but for the listeners that maybe haven't listened to that episode, the last that I heard was a rough estimate between like 40 and 60 million people are currently being trafficked or are their slaves, right? Like you're, you're you have no freedoms. You're controlled by someone at the top, whether you use for labor or sex. Like those are the two main ones. I was really fascinated when I was looking at what were the website? Was it the hotline statistics? They were saying that the number one industry was actually like massage parlors. 2 (11m 16s): And I had no idea because that's so in your face it's so above ground, 0 (11m 22s): It depends. So, okay. First these statistics are really freaking hard to get. I mean, you either have to have a bus, right. Either have to have a bus or survivors have to step forward. So right there, you're already at a disadvantage. I think that what I've seen globally is that labor trafficking has more victims. Statistically then sex trafficking, sex trafficking gets more like more, I don't know, more buzz around it because it's more of, it seems more agregious you know, or it is. I mean, it's a F it is. 0 (12m 4s): I mean, especially when you're dealing with children, but, but I, you know, must have some massage parlors, have human trafficking, some nail shops have human trafficking. Some of our food, you know, is picked by labor trafficking victims. My phone was probably made by a victim of human trafficking. So it's, it's a lot of places we're not necessarily looking for it, if that makes sense. 2 (12m 29s): Yeah. I think when people say those numbers, it's so alarming that you think that there are inflated or you think that the, one of the more frustrating things that I saw on Twitter when everything was starting to get highlighted was everyone was associating this with Q Anon. And I was like, it's not the same, like one is a very real and one again, is this embellished version that just wanted to get attention. I don't really try to go into that hole to much, but for some reason they got linked up and then it became a political issue. And it's like, well, its not that bad. Or these numbers are inflated or people like you don't exist. 2 (13m 10s): Or Jeff, you know, the Jeffrey and Jeffrey Epstein thing. Well, you know, under the radar for so long and people were trying to come out earlier and they're like, there's no way he's so elite. He is a high profile figure. Umm, but it is what's happening right in front of you. So I guess you do. Can we get into your story a little bit or, or not? I'm not familiar with 0 (13m 30s): Oh yeah for sure. And just to just sorry, just to backtrack a little bit, you know, I, I was really focused on speaking out against to Anon. I just didn't find it very helpful. I found myself on the receiving end of some of their attacks because I wasn't willing to toe the line. There are horrible people on all sides and to anyone, you know, it didn't need to be political. It doesn't need to be about that. You know, I try to reach out to the politicians on both sides. I try to reach out to journalists on all sides. You know, it's like such a problem. We don't need to put the extra stuff on it. You know, just how you were saying. But I, you know, I did an interview with NBC about it. 0 (14m 11s): I was really very vocal because I wasn't understanding why the conversation was shifting from something that we have tangible evidence on to something that, I mean, in my mind, I feel like the Q a non thing was maybe some type of weird PSYOP or stuff like that was just some weird stuff. And that was something in the Survivor space. We never saw company, you know what I mean? We just never saw that one coming that he 2 (14m 36s): Realized the conversation a lot too. 0 (14m 38s): David, I had this conversation wasn't helpful. Do I think that some soaps that believes in QA would have been helpful? Yes. They're few and far between that's that was my experience and I would love to stand corrected. So my story, 3 (14m 54s): I would love to see the uncorrected, but I'm so, you know, but on the flip side though, 0 (14m 60s): And you know, even though I was on the receiving end of a tax, even though I thought that they weren't hopeful, even though I felt like they muddied the water, I still a fight for their freedom to say it. I wish, you know, I wasn't very comfortable when they were removed from, you know, standard social media platforms in my mind that forces them more underground, radicalizing them. This is a problem we have, you know, is when we remove these folks that are maybe already a little desperate on the edge, they feel unheard. A really, it gives them an opportunity to be further radicalized. You know, we see the same things with like terrorists, a possible terrorists, you know, white supremacy, things like that. 0 (15m 45s): I just don't like it to see, to see it get pushed, you know, then they're in their own bubble where they're only talking to people like them and it's just for further radicalization. So that's one thing I get scared of. So my story, 3 (16m 1s): My story, I'm going to get you banned off YouTube. <inaudible> horrible words. Like I've had some pretty outrageous people will be good. I watched some of your podcasts over the weekend. Yeah. 0 (16m 17s): I have some great guests. I love that. Actually. I love just really good topics. It was, it was really fun just to hear the different, just different topics. And it was good. I was really excited about it. So my story, I was, I was homeschooled. So I was homeschooled and I was groomed age 15. I went to a concert, the vans warped tour in Chicago and I had a driver's permit. So I like, I went, you know, I had a driver's permit thought I was cool. Went to the vans, warped tour and met a photographer there. And the photographer spent a fi a two years grooming me. 0 (16m 59s): I don't know where five came from. 15 was probably in my head, but yeah, two years grooming me. I actually went to Los Angeles to do a photo shoot with a photographer. And so everything sort of seemed pretty legit. I moved to Los Angeles before I turned 18. And it just barely because I graduated early because that was home-schooled. And with a few days of being there, you know, I was promised the world, you know, as promised that I was going to be a star and, and my naivete a really, really didn't work in my favor in this case. And I was a sex traffic right away. 0 (17m 39s): I was, you know, they said, started with a couple of beers, went to drugs. I was trying to fit in and be cool. I wanted to impress everybody, show everybody, you know, that I was cool. I could fit in. And, and once I was on the drugs, then I was sold. 2 (17m 58s): Whoa. Okay. So the concept of selling a Human to me, like I can't even begin to break that down. Yeah. And I'm sure, probably a lot of listeners can't either. It just seems like it only exists in movies. So how do you sell a person like in Europe when you were talking about your story, like, how were you sold? How does that transaction happen? 0 (18m 23s): Well, I wasn't necessarily consulted, but you know, I try to tell folks, and this was one thing I definitely have a difficult time. Once I became an advocate, just sort of unpacking a lot of why it happens. You know, in that time I was not seen as a human being. I was solely scene as an object. It would be the equivalent. If I said to you, Hey girl, do you want to buy this microphone? You know, it was so like a, like a product. So, you know, I try not to, you know, these are folks that don't see humans as humans. They see them as, you know, along the lines of, you know, illegal drugs, illegal guns, illegal oil is seen the same way. 0 (19m 11s): It's solely just, you know, for that. I, you know, and as far as abusers go, you know, I definitely look at them as folks that are not dealing within the same framework of every reality that we are, you know, so, and it's not like this is anything new, you know, unfortunately slavery forced labor, you know, nonconsensual sex. These are things we've dealt with for a very long time. And same with child marriage, you know, a child marriage isn't illegal everywhere. So I'm really grateful that I got out. 0 (19m 52s): It is okay. 2 (19m 52s): How does that happen? How did, how are you able to get out? Because it seems at least, you know, in the movies that you see or, you know, the stereotype As version of all of these is that they hook the, the girls or the men are on drugs. So that you're kind of in this helpless state. And then you're also, so you're not able to get out. 0 (20m 14s): Yeah. And so I always let folks know that when a victim becomes a liability, they're disposable as well. I overdosed on drugs. I was really difficult to do with my difficulty kit. Definitely kept me alive. A lot of it was always a little punk rock. That was always a little punk rock. And I was really difficult to deal with, but I did overdose on drugs. Then I was left for dead. I'm grateful that I was left for dead because I wouldn't have survived. I went to Cedar Sinai and back home detox. And didn't really talk about what happened. Unfortunately, that was the first time, the second time, once that initial trauma was there and this isn't rare. 0 (20m 59s): So like, to anybody that's listening, this isn't rare. You know, I sort of liken it to returning to a domestic violence situation. You know, we have, you know, some of us have had, these friends were like, why do they keep going back? Why did they keep going back? It's very similar. I'm in this way. I actually willingly returned later on in life to that lifestyle. I had a different a trafficker this time and I just feel like that initial, you know, I didn't feel like I was worth anything more than that lifestyle. Does that make sense? 2 (21m 37s): Oh, it does. Yeah. I 0 (21m 39s): Just didn't think I had much else to offer. I didn't know. I didn't, I mean, brutal honesty is just going to sound wild, but I didn't even feel smart or worthy of really speaking in public or out loud until well into 2020. 2 (21m 56s): Wow. So when you returned to it, you essentially, you ended up becoming like a prostitute with like a pimp in that kind of situation or was it like the same people that had initially traffic to you? 0 (22m 10s): The people, it was years later, you know, I had gotten, I had decided that I wanted to, well, first I wanted to be a cocktail server. First. I wanted to be a cocktail server at a gentleman's club. I have been working, you know, VIP hosts and stuff like that. And, and so I had like, after my first experience, like I went on to live a kind of a decent life. Like I had a domestic violence situation and, you know, in, in a relationship, but you know, other than that, I have had a pretty decent life, but that initial trauma was a lot. It's like, I never really dealt with it. I never really did the work, you know, or really even was really even willing to address that, that even happen. 0 (22m 53s): You know what I mean? I also, I like to remember remind people too, that like now we have words to put to it. Like the year that I was trafficked as a teenager, I was right around the time we had our first law's in the United States about human trafficking. All we weren't really talking about it. You know what I mean? Like it wasn't like now we talk about it, like right before we weren't really talking about it. So I went to go and be a cocktail Survivor at a gentleman's club. They said, well, I'll let you be a Survivor here, but first you have to audition a dance. I did, it was great. It was great money. That's where I can differentiate between willing adults entertainer. 0 (23m 34s): At that time, I consider myself a willing adult entertainer. You know, it wasn't being trafficked. Unfortunately, I had a financial skills because I was new to that lifestyle. Didn't know that the money would ebb and flow. I thought it would always be like that. Well, my lifestyle had a leveled up to that, you know, so I needed more and an order and you know, somebody catches you right when you are vulnerable and they sell you the dream. And then I felt right back into it. Again, I fell right back into it again. And my second abuser was violent. That was a difference. My second, a beat, I guess they were probably both. 0 (24m 17s): I think before I was a little bit more docile when I was a teenager, they didn't have to do too much to keep me at Bay. The second one was a little bit more violent 2 (24m 28s): And your handler, he was a trafficker trafficker. So, so I think that's an important thing to touch on is his definitions. And a lot of people, if you don't come from any experience, whether it's from like the adult entertainment space or sex work, or, you know, Trafficking, if you're not involved in those, all of these things kind of can seem like they can intertwine or maybe like the definition can move from one to another. So what would you say is like the difference between like a handler or a trafficker? Are they the same thing or it's just like a different word or, and I guess what's the difference between trapped being trafficked as an adult versus I guess someone who just wants to be in sex work. 0 (25m 19s): Yeah. So first let's start with children under no circumstances, can children consent to selling sex? So under all circumstances, if a child has sold sex, a they are under the United States law as a human trafficking victim. So a child can not consent to selling sex, right? A child can not have a child sexual abuse material or child pornography, a child sexual exploitation material under no circumstances, is this good or legal? So that's the first and foremost, right? And then anyone over the age of 18? Well, it depends, you know, there's w there's willing adult entertainment, which is legal in the United States. 0 (26m 5s): Anything that involves force fraud or coercion would be considered human trafficking, revenge porn would fall in there as well. So if someone records you without your consent, without your knowledge and posts, it distributes it whatsoever. That would be considered human 2 (26m 25s): Trafficking 0 (26m 27s): As far as a handler goes. I don't really know. I don't want to, I don't know the answer to that question cause I'm not necessarily in that world. So I don't want to say something long. You, I guess it, I, when you, when you said that I'm thinking like, okay, if somebody, as a manager at a strip club, would I, 2 (26m 52s): I guess it can be used both ways. So it'd probably is important to differentiate, 0 (26m 56s): You know, like if someone is a manager, like if someone is a willing adult entertainer and they have an entertainment manager, I don't consider that, you know, cause it is legal to have an, an entertainment manager or, you know, PR you know what I mean? Is that right? 2 (27m 13s): Okay. I see what you're saying. 0 (27m 16s): So that's kind of the, you know, I think that if a force fraud or coercion is involved, you know, that's where, that's where it becomes a problem. You know, what that look like for me was like, you have to do this, you have a quota you're not allowed to do, you know? And I also, wasn't in control of who I saw when, you know, what any, any aspect of the situation and none of the money was mine, but my basic needs were met as an adult. Yeah. Do you find, 2 (27m 50s): And do you find that there's like a lack of empathy or sympathy when it comes to adults are serving trafficked? Because I kind of see that where it's like, Oh, well, she's old enough to figure it out. And I don't think people can understand or maybe necessarily appreciate the complexities of these situations. And it's not, it's not that easy. It's not that simple. And the majority of people that are in that, our victims of Trafficking are over 18 or 18 or over, I think it's like, I want to say an estimated out of that to see a million it's like 20 ish million that are under age. But again, I have it, like, I'm not super up to date on the statistics. 2 (28m 32s): And I don't think that they've honestly been really updated since a COVID either. 0 (28m 36s): Yeah. We're still kind of waiting to see. I mean, I've seen the early, the early ramifications of the, of the lockdowns and everything. We were really horrible on human trafficking, still kind of waiting to see the full picture. But do I think that, you know, I find that the part that's most difficult for folks to really understand is the coercive Human Trafficking, you know, the force, you know, when people say sex slave that force a human trafficking is easy for people to understand or maybe have sympathy for the coercive aspect is really difficult for folks to wrap their head around like those trauma bonds. 0 (29m 25s): Like, I mean, I was in love with my abuser, so that's an, I still have difficulty wanting to press charges. And this is something that a lot of people don't talk about because they're so hyper on the force that they wouldn't understand that like the whole time I pretty much, you know, could have walked to the police department. You know what I mean? Like that part's really difficult for folks to understand. That's what I feel like letting people know it's, you know, it is similar to domestic violence in that way where you can just be, it's like you keep going back, even though it might not be healthy or even, you know, sometimes maybe too, a different addiction. 0 (30m 12s): So that folks have, it's like, it's not right. You know, something in your gut, it's not right. But you just keep going back, even though there's a high potential that you could be harmed. 2 (30m 23s): So where does that relationship develop that aspect of it? Like, how do you start to feel like you love for your, for this predator, right? Like it's, that's, I think that is really hard for people that haven't experienced it to wrap your head around it. But when you do compare it to, to, to domestic violence, I want to say on average, it takes a, the victim nine times to actually leave to not return. 0 (30m 51s): We have a lot of times, a lot of times to try to leave. You know, it took me so many times. I quit saying I'm done forever. I had to say, I just say, I'm done today. Cause I don't want to look stupid and go back and see, you know, w you know, these abusers are master manipulators. They understand what your vulnerabilities are and they know how to play on you. It's almost like folks, folks do understand a little bit like Stockholm syndrome, right? It is that, I mean, I was basically brainwash and there are also really skilled at This. 0 (31m 33s): You know, I always say, you know, if these abusers put their, their intelligence and their ability to get things done towards something good are powerful. You know, you could get a lot done in this world, but they don't. They want to do it a different way. And that's, it definitely had me in its grip. And, you know, I, I mean, I actually, I, I actually feel like it might still a little bit, just because I was challenged a couple of months ago to, to take some steps that would get some justice for myself. 0 (32m 13s): And I turned it down so 2 (32m 16s): Well, when that happens, what's going on in your head? Like, what is that inner dialogue? 0 (32m 21s): Well, generally, so the, the advocate me is like super strong. I'm like a beast. You know what I mean? So like, my life now, a very strong beast, beast mode, Savage, like no old barn I mad to this morning because no, a publication had covered the second Survivor minor Survivor that step forward to, to PSU Twitter. So I was daily collard and Today did the daily caller did, or the daily wire. 2 (32m 54s): I want to say to the daily caller, it was, let me check 0 (32m 58s): Because I was on there, took us every journalist, trust me, these journalists know they know what it is with me, almost beast. I was on them on a weekend. I started on Friday and just would not let them let up with them. They're like, Oh, this girl's annoying, but I'm an advocate. I am an activist. You know what I mean? I'm crazy. So just so that the advocate me is a very strong, like, I'm like, but the Survivor me is sometime still a week, but sometimes, you know, 2 (33m 30s): I think you're right. It was the daily wire. 0 (33m 33s): I wasn't giving them a choice. I was like, you're writing about this Today. Like, if you don't have to say, you know, crazy, and like, that's what you get it done, what'd you, you know, I think to myself, if that was my child, I would, once we wanted to be talking about this. 2 (33m 49s): Oh my God. Oh yeah. I mean, I don't have to have people that got me super involved with like my research whole was becoming a mom and just realizing how real this is. I think we focused too much on it being an international problem and that it's not, but the statistics show where the highest consumer of child, child pornography you got. And I want to say, I wish I had these numbers at the top of my head. You guys can always go to a child rescue college. And they have a lot of statistics there, but most, most victims know their abuser to do. It's not like this horror film where you just kind of get picked up by a stranger, obviously that does happen. But most of the time this person works their way into your circle and gains your trust, gains your affection. 2 (34m 35s): And then like you're saying, sometimes it can be so manipulative that you end up creating this bond with a person, which is even scarier, because you were saying, you know what I mean? Like you're saying right now that there was a chance for you to have done something that would have given you that sense of justice and you're still struggling with it, which is heartbreaking. 0 (34m 56s): Well, there's also other things too, like, do I really want to go through that? And there's also a fear there that will, I think that they would kill me. I don't hesitate to think that I I'm very vocal about that every day. I, I firmly believe that in my life is in danger because I'm a public Survivor leader, the things I speak out against. And I know that my former abusers would tell me just for fun. Like if I did, if I did anything and there's other steps too, that wouldn't be worse than them killing me. If you'd get what I'm saying, 2 (35m 28s): There is not, there is. So to me, it's like, we'll just lock these guys up. Like it seems so it seems so simple. I have no, it's not, I'm not, not that ignorant, but I guess where did the complications come in to trapping these guys? Like I, if you watch or go to like a lot of those non-profits they do, they are in the private sector are probably doing just as much, if not more work than the government sector, when it comes to locking these guys up, is there are just too much like bureaucratical red tape or why is it not so easy when you have all of these women coming forward saying, this is what happened. He's right there, go get them 0 (36m 9s): And you'd have to prove it, you know? So that would have to make it through a court of law due process. And it's so backed up, you know, I have done sexual assault kits, never heard anything back, you know, without that concrete evidence, it will be hard to prove in a court of law. 2 (36m 36s): It seems like a sting operation would be the, the easiest, fastest, most tangible way to gain the evidence. 0 (36m 45s): So I'm weird about stings. You know, I'm definitely for stings that a trap abusers of miners, the problem with stinks that we deal with Inn. When we start dealing with adults is that, you know, willing adults, sex workers, and victims of human trafficking get arrested as well. And it's kind of like that. Does that make sense? This is like, I mean, it's so horrible, you know, there's something else I want folks to know too, and this is something I can not get out there. You are. You just have an act of, yes. I want to look at myself. 0 (37m 26s): I hate was going to happen, but, but you know, one of the most things like disturbing things, this is just seared in my brain and I cannot get rid of it is the fact that Gabriel dance from the New York times was told in his investigative journalism about this issue that the FBI and the LAPD cannot focus on anything other than anything to anyone younger than a toddler, because the child sexual abuse material is so much, there's so much that can't even focus on anyone. 0 (38m 8s): That's not a toddler or younger. Like, so when it comes to adults, like it's kind of like the lowest on the pecking order. You know, we need to definitely focus on the child, sexual abuse, a child Trafficking, labor, and sex. You know, these are definitely the most egregious. I'm not saying that adults don't matter. We do, but dang, if we can't, I'm in it, this is a whole next generation that we're, this is just lives are being ruined. 2 (38m 44s): The, and there's that ripple effect too. Right? So is it hurt people, hurt people and were, I don't think that there are enough resources, like you said, to even catch everybody and save everybody, let alone heal everybody. So I think that's a really cool thing that I'm seeing a lot of the nonprofits do in the private sector is they're allocating a certain amount of their budget for therapy after that. So my friend with operation rescue children, the first thing they do when they scoop up these, these kids is they put them in a facility with professionals to make sure that they're, they can start healing their mind from this trauma. 2 (39m 25s): And then with, with child rescue coalition, she has, is really a bear's and blankets program that she is doing so immediately that we are giving them something for comfort, because they recognize the ripple effects of, of the site, the mental abuse aspect of this. And it's obviously not to take away from the physical, but that's what lasts potentially the rest of your life. And that's wildly expensive, but I think we definitely need to be focusing on it more. And I think it was last year that even the, like the Trump administration was giving more money for that, to make sure that there were a psychologist at these facilities when they're taking on these, these victims. 2 (40m 8s): So I'm glad that we're starting to focus more on The, on that part of the healing process of it is you're right. 0 (40m 14s): It is better at it. And you know, that's like, I, like I was saying, remember how I was saying, like, we just kind of are getting that. We're just now kind of getting good. Add the aftercare, The after aftercare and more programs, more funding, more knowledge about the crime. More, more knowledge about what works and serving survivors after they've had an opportunity to be free meeting survivors where they're at, you know, that was one area. I think that the movement was really struggling when its kind of like people get out and then it's like, okay, we're going to force you to, to here all the way we think you should heal. Now we're really just trying to meet survivors where they're at and just give them a trauma informed Survivor led experience. 0 (41m 3s): And that means that they choose their own level of healing and what that looks like for them. That's what's worked well for me. The fourth thing, like the kind of like, this is how you're going to heal did not work well for me. So for some survivors, that's great. They like that like a more structured vibe on, for me. It wasn't so much like that. So, so it's, it's a, it is pretty cool to see some big changes being made. I think that awareness for the issue has definitely, and I think that, that, so I think the way we are headed in the right direction with that, I think that as far as what we're going to see globally, as far as folks, folks falling into this lifestyle is going to increase so much. 0 (41m 51s): This is not going away. You know, for anyone out there with kids, please talk to your kids, please educate your kids on what can happen. As far as being groomed online by a predator or a, you know, being sold a dream by somebody pretending to be somebody else. You know, you don't, you don't want your children have to go to those aftercare programs. Trust me, trust me. I mean here, I'm about to turn, Hey wait, I saw you posting your birthday's next month. Yeah, one day May 29th and the 21st. Okay. Is there a Gemini? You have a Taurus Gemini costs, but more and more Gemini. 2 (42m 28s): Yeah. I can see that. Oh, I was going to ask for a sign earlier in the podcast. I was like my elicits in a roll our eyes. If I ask her 3 (42m 36s): Well, 2 (42m 36s): That mystical Bleu, I love it. You can't get enough Is good for this kind of thing. Right. I think it's a really good for anyone that becomes a public figure or in entertainment. I think that helps. So when it comes to with like your, your healing journey, what's helped you a lot. Cause I think that's really important to touch on. 0 (43m 3s): Yeah. So I was really struggling when I was struggling for a while. Like I was just not doing well suicidal just actions and things that were really just not attracting good. A lifestyle choice is not attracting good folks in my life that really, you know, my family was really consistent, really cared about me. They still do, but I was just not attracting people that have my best interest in heart. And I was really struggling with that. I was struggling with thoughts of suicide, suicidal ideation, anything you could possibly think of. And what changed for me was I stumbled across Dr. 0 (43m 48s): Jordan Peterson. Some people like to roll their eyes, but this is just my story. 2 (43m 53s): I love that, man. I found a way 0 (43m 57s): By happenstance. I was looking for something else and just sort of stumbled across one of his interviews and really connected. And that experience shifted all of my focus. A big healing thing for me has been podcasts when I'm triggered for a lack of better terms when I'm in a dark place. If my mind is in, you know, if I'm hyper-focused on something that couldn't be that isn't helpful. And I found the podcast space, but it was really Dr. Jordan Peterson that really sort of made that. So in that, and just to listen to him, learning about history, you know, just starting to acquire some self worth doing esteemable acts and, and, but really podcasts it's been podcasts. 2 (44m 50s): That's wonderful. Yeah. I think there's got to be like a, a huge, a huge like healing mechanism when you start to feel like a connection, even if it's just through listening to someone or reading their book. Cause I would imagine that's very lonely and very isolating because you know, it's hard unless you find those networks to find anyone that's, maybe you had those experiences and then like you said, you can very easily given to this place of unworthiness and this is all that I deserved. So that healing process is probably takes a really long time. So those are really attainable things, you know that it's. Yeah. 0 (45m 28s): And I, I went to a Survivor safe house. I did go to a safe house the second time. So like when I left the second time is a little bit more dramatic, even more dramatic than the first time. But I did go to Survivor safe house that was good. Some seeds were planted there. It wasn't the right fit for me. I was a little wild at the time, but, but, but the seeds were planted. The seeds of hope are planted also when, before the lockdown I've also been a part of a serf Survivor support group, all adults, you know, after aftercare really awesome survivors, a part of that group, I'm where we can just be transparent, share a meal together and talk about what's going on. 0 (46m 9s): So there's, there's a lot of different things to it. It wasn't just, you know, Jordan Peterson, you know, I believe in God. Mmm. So that helps me out a lot, you know? 2 (46m 21s): Yeah. I think spirituality is huge or religion is huge. And I, for some reason they're both like dirty words right now. Like it's not cool to say that those are important parts of your life, but I think almost everyone and I don't know, I think almost everyone, especially in our darkest moments, I think we know that there is something else there. We want that connection. And we know that it's powerful. I don't know. Maybe that's just me being again, leaning into the mysticism and the Wu, but I think most of us feel that and I think it can be so powerful in these moments. Yeah. I'm, I mean, I'm glad to see you have such a big platform and that you, I was looking at it, looking you up on YouTube and you've been talking to some really awesome people. 2 (47m 5s): So when it comes for you, what's your mission with this and what is your mission as, as an advocate? 0 (47m 13s): Well, I stepped forward and started tweeting about human trafficking in, on April 2nd, 2020. It will. I mean, that's when I really stepped forward to be a public Survivor, a leader. So I've, it's just happened just a year. And then I started doing my first podcast and a September 28. I was tweeting about human trafficking before April. But as I stepped forward as a public site, where with my name, my picture, everything there, so that, Hey, I'm a Survivor. That was really the real one. Umm, and then I started doing podcasts in September and then I really kick the podcast in a high gear about five months ago, the podcast have been great. 0 (47m 55s): So that's been awesome. My goal is to serve as many survivors as possible at whatever I can do. My goal is to keep my message pure and to not sell it. I did some of my, my tweeting style and my podcast style is not for sale I'm this is not, I don't do it as a representative of any organization. This is just me out here, you know? And that's been really helpful because I haven't had to toe the line or say anything or fit inside a box or fit a political agenda or what the hell, you know, whatever Alice, you know, I can say whatever I think. 0 (48m 35s): So I'm really excited to grow. I get to sit down with Bridget fair to say this week. I love her. I know it's not public yet, but since this is a lie, I can say I'm a very excited, you know, I've been really blessed. You know, I'm just, I had the opportunity and I saw, I have some really big podcast interviews coming up and that is something I never saw just like never saw coming. You know, like I said, I never thought I had anything. Anybody who wanted to here, you know, you have to remember like, I mean my former abuser who is like, you're stupid, you aren't shit. You're, you're only worth your looks. 0 (49m 16s): You know, you, you have nothing. Anybody wants, you know, so this is part of a being in an abusive relationship. This was a grounded to my head. So it just means so much to me that different people are open and willing to hear it moving forward. I just want to keep, keep that momentum going and just reach as many survivors as possible. Believe it or not. Every time I do a big podcast Survivor step forward, reach out for healing. And the last time when I stepped forward, the last day, last time really stepped forward. I saw a Survivor on YouTube. That was the first time I ever even heard of human trafficking. What human trafficking was. I did not know up until I saw this Survivor on YouTube, what human trafficking was or that I even identified that way. 0 (50m 1s): She put words to my experience. I didn't even know. So if it wasn't for her being on YouTube, being so accessible, being available, I wouldn't have stepped forward. Now I have served survivors in six countries, hundreds and hundreds of hundreds of survivors over the last handful of years, I've served because I was an advocate before I was a public. So it's just being the most amazing experience. I just want to keep the momentum going, but the pier that's gonna be the hard part. 2 (50m 31s): That's the confusing thing. So I heard that you, at some point were censored on Twitter, which time I don't understand how this is a controversial topic. I feel like this is so dehumanizing. This is such an evil industry. That's worth billions of dollars. I think can't, we all say that this is all an atrocity and we should do everything we can to save these people and to stop these predators. I don't understand where the, where the opposing view is. So why would you, why would you get banned? Well, the time I was 0 (51m 10s): Suspended specifically, I had tweeted out an article, a news article about a law. It was a, a a as a news article from Memphis. I was actually trying to give a Survivor, a shout out. I thought that the Survivor was working on the bill. She actually isn't working on that bill. So joke was triple on me that day. That was a broad scale band on the word Memphis. And because of that, the article had come from Memphis. So I hadn't broke in terms of service. I've never violated terms of service. I'm really careful about that. But other than that, my Twitter account is throttled. 0 (51m 55s): It is shadow ban. We have evidence of this. We have proof of this. It happened around the time when I really started speaking out why I think that I'm sensored and sort of on the naughty list, so to speak. And it's because there's a lot of money and a lot of very powerful people don't want to see this message get out, but it doesn't dishearten. It doesn't make me dishearten. It makes me push harder, you know? And it's horrible because it's almost like I wanted to warn you before we sat down for the conversation. Like, cause you'll probably get some pushback for talking to me. 2 (52m 36s): That's shocking to me, it's shocking to a point 0 (52m 40s): As an industry that does not the porn industry does not, I'm not talking willing adult entertainers. I think generally speaking, when I talked to a million adult entertainers, they're like, yeah, we don't want this affiliated with our brand. 2 (52m 52s): Yeah, it's disgusting. But when people 0 (52m 54s): Don't sit to listen to the message, sit to even like, listen to what I'm saying. They just think I'm like anti porn or like anti willing adult sex work. This is not what this is. And, and, and I feel that if my message threatens you, it says more about what you're doing than what I'm doing. I'm talking about human rights violations. I'm talking about child sexual abuse. I'm talking about child sexual abuse and that you're all talking about nonconsensual sex. You know, so, and God forbid, if any of the willing adult entertainers are ever in a situation where they are being, you know, if one of their videos or something is up, you know, up and it's nonconsensual, I will certainly fight for them too. I worked with folks that are also willing adult entertainers simultaneously because a lot of survivors choose to do, you know, a lot of survivors have only fans, a lot of survivors, you know, and they still deserved, you know, to be served and to be provided aftercare. 0 (53m 50s): Folks do not want to see this message get out because they make money off this child, sexual abuse material. They make money off the nonconsensual videos and they make money off the human trafficking. 2 (54m 1s): So for me, when I see the technology that we have, especially in the, in the private sector, because I feel like that's where, you know, people really thrive and innovation happens a lot faster. They use fingerprinting to, to get a lot of these materials because especially when it comes to a child abuse content, it's, it's circulated heavily. I want to say they've identified over like 75 million unique IP addresses. And like the most viewed piece of illegal content was like 2 million views, like passed around, you know, through telegram and WhatsApp and all of these encrypted platforms. 2 (54m 42s): They're still able to find them there, obviously it's proprietary technology and they don't really explain a lot that, you know, that way that they can still have the advantage over these people. So I certainly don't know how it works, but I do know that it's traceable, especially when it's on a non-encrypted platform like Twitter, like Facebook and Anne's like porn hub, obviously porn hub cleaned up a ton of their videos this year. I believe like the beginning of this year. But it was something like over a hundred. Hi, shouldn't say number because I don't have it. Exactly. It was a lot, it was a lot of content that Facebook willingly and turned over. They said, Hey, we found this forum so that they can find the origins of it. 2 (55m 26s): So we have the technology to do it. So I don't know. 0 (55m 29s): There's a little bit back that way, by the way, you were like doing great. Like, yeah, I want you to come work with me and grow. You're like really, really knowledgeable. You might be the most knowledgeable podcast, or I've talked to you about this issue and I've talked to some awesome people. Like, I mean, I've talked to a doctor twice now. He's like, I feel like I blew his mind, but so let's back up a little bit. So are you talking about Microsoft photo DNA because PornHub claims that they were using Microsoft or the DNA Twitter are using Microsoft sort of DNA, Facebook uses of Microsoft Reddit, all of these platforms who is in Microsoft for a DNA plus other technology that they also have that's unique to them. Right? So facial, one of the more popular ones. Yeah. So yeah. So Microsoft would have been an fortunately, well, it was made in 2009 and unfortunately I can only detect images that have already gone through and not so much on video. 0 (56m 19s): So that's a separate a technology. And I actually spoke to the creator, Microsoft photo DNA, and hopefully there'll be something new coming soon. So that's something I'm really looking forward to. But once end-to-end encryption comes down, it will be virtually impossible to detect the child sexual abuse material. The fact that technology doesn't exist to track and remove this child, sexual abuse material at scale is really is terrifying. You know, the thing, my, my issue was this with like a PornHub with you, I actually think that Facebook does the best and they reported nine and 5% of 65 million images for the national center for missing and exploited children this year through Facebook platforms like messenger, Instagram and Facebook. 0 (57m 11s): So it sounds horrible that they reported 95% of 65 million, but actually they're doing the best, right? Because they caught it. They caught and attending. It's not there. They're catching, they're catching it for the most part. The problem is they're moving to an end in it and encryption. So this is going to be really difficult, but, and I'm not, I'm, it's, it's hard to, because there's like a part of me as a human, as an adult. That's like, yeah, I like the privacy. You know what I mean? Yeah. I don't want big tech and my business. Right. But for child sexual abuse material, this is specifically going to be a really big problem. You know, that the difficulty was like a porn hub or Twitter is when they are knowingly profiting off the child, sexual abuse material after the victim survivors or other folks reach out and say, Hey, this is C Sam. 0 (57m 58s): This is child sexual abuse material. This is a child porn. Please remove it. You know, in the case of John DOE for instance, and now it's John <inaudible> John DOE two that are suing Twitter. There were 13 years old in a video to male survivors, 13 years old in the video, John, no one had reached out to Twitter multiple times. It took the department of Homeland security. Twitter had his identification. This video was watched over a 160,000 times, 2000 retweets on Twitter. Like they were knowingly profiting off the child, sexual abuse material. They wrote John DOE one back and said, we are not going to remove it does not violate our terms as a service. That's one of the department of Homeland security had to step. 0 (58m 39s): It is like, and did they take it down after, after? I mean, this is yes. At first they said, no, both young men just turned 18, just turning team. So they were 13 in the video, they just turned 18. Twitter would not take this down. So my thing is like, if you're notified that these are children in this video with government ID is showing that they're, you know, miners, why are we not taking this down? Why are these platforms consistently profiting off of this material? Human trafficking is going to be a little bit harder to prove, you know, put the child sexual abuse, materials, cut and dry, not even a question, you know, same thing with nonconsensual videos as well. 2 (59m 24s): You know? So when it came, when that, when that first John DOE wrote in, it was a human that had responded, like, was it an auto-response? Did he ever actually get in touch with a real person that worked at Twitter? I don't know. Yeah. That's the hard part too is. 0 (59m 42s): I mean, I've seen the transcripts like back and forth, like the written, but I doubt it was a hit. 2 (59m 46s): When you think that those terms would be flagged though. Right? And then like, let's, let's move this. Like someone was saying that this is either like rape content, nonconsensual content, underage content. You think that those terms would be flagged in the support system to actually go to a real human desk is it's a massive deal. And I think even if we got taken down, you know, people screen recorded, they saved it. It's there forever. And now this person has their face all over the internet. And you know, you can't ever separate yourself from that. It's like, you're constantly living in that moment. You nailed it. 2 (1h 0m 27s): You nailed it. So, well, you can't even put a price on that. Like they're suing, but what is this poor child? Well, so I mean, Twitter, I try to have the case dismissed. Oh man. And, but the thing, what, what was their argument citing? Section two 30 of protection that they're not responsible for the content on there. Yeah. Hm. But they sure they sure were very effective at removing content that they didn't want on their platform last year. You nailed it. Okay. 0 (1h 1m 4s): We live in a logical person. Here's this stuff that we're in a logical person, here's this stuff you like, okay. What's the problem. Like, it's almost like every podcast on. And I was like, okay, but what is the problem? What's the problem. I like that. Now people get why I'm so wild about it all day. I'm like, yeah, what is the problem? And I have met with Twitter corporate. Well, there's another nuance too. So Jack Dorsey and I were friendly. So I'd requested meetings and stuff in M. So this isn't anything that I haven't said to them either they have no, they are profiting off of child sexual abuse, material, porn hub, profited off a child, sexual abuse material. 0 (1h 1m 45s): Look, I'm not blaming them for the, you know, 2 (1h 1m 48s): Right. I'm not even calling them pedophiles, predators, traffickers. Okay. 0 (1h 1m 54s): The problem is once they are notified, then they are knowingly profiting on it. 2 (1h 1m 60s): That's a problem. Yeah. I entirely agree. And I'm like, actually it's a very unpopular opinion in my industry, but I'm very pro a paywall. Like I don't believe that explicit sexual content should be I'm just for free anywhere. I think that there needs to be some kind of step to a verify that everyone's consenting, but everyone's of age and that the consumer is also of age. So obviously you're going to hope that if they have a credit card that they are 18, obviously that's always the case, but it does obviously protect some people from stumbling upon content that they are not necessarily mature enough to, to, to consume. 0 (1h 2m 39s): Okay. Why, why is it an unpopular opinion? 2 (1h 2m 43s): Because would they use the slippery slope argument that if we get rid of being able to show our sexuality or sex on Twitter, that we're just going to get banned as an entire industry, that they're going to be on every single porn star, every single sex worker that they are going to make porn illegal, all of these things. And I don't know that those things are necessarily related. I'm like, for example, Utah, who is trying to pass a bill right now that would put a filter on any electrical device that's sold within the state. And then you can turn it off, but it's just its to protect kids from going on to web sites that they shouldn't be on. And every one in the industry lost their mind. 2 (1h 3m 25s): They're like, this is unconstitutional. This is on American yada yada. And everyone's like, Utah's trying to ban porn. And it was like, did you read the article? Because that's not the In, at all, is it comes with a filter. So if you give it to your child, do you know that there are safer on the internet from places that they shouldn't be? And if you are an adult and you want to consume that content, we just turn the filter off. I've actually thinking of like, why is that a bad idea? And they are automatically like, we are not, we're not seeing it as human and we're being invalidated and our industry is under attack again. And I don't necessarily see that connection. I think a good, I think it's wonderful that PornHub now only has verified content. 2 (1h 4m 8s): I think it was kind of bullshit when in the beginning they were like, we have Human people that are verifying every single video. And I was like, Hmm, let's back that up really quick because I spent thousands of dollars a month taking my content that I own off of your platform. And it wasn't verified. I never sent you in my IDs for that scene or my consent forms for that. You know what I mean? Like you don't know anything. You can just be in a bin, whatever video, no one's reviewing it. So I think that was a necessary step. And unfortunately that's one to site out of hundreds. No one else is following that. 0 (1h 4m 42s): I mean personally, and I've never really said this in any interview, but I feel like it's applicable here. If I was a willing adult entertainer, I would be really pushing and pretty upset with PornHub. And some of these other folks that are not navigating this child sexual abuse material and the human trafficking stuff, nonconsensual videos at scale, because what it does is for willing adult entertainers, hold on, we're about to have a visitor. Maybe we'll see what it does is it puts folks that are doing it willingly. 0 (1h 5m 21s): And this is their chosen profession at risk. You know, if pornhub's pulled down in an instant that could protect that could potentially, you know, folks that do that, that do that work willingly for a living and I could put them, I am so sorry. You could put them, you know, in a danger for losing income, you know, and that's scary. There are a lot of mothers there's fathers out there that are willing adult entertainers. You know, I am shocked sometimes that the, a willing adult entertainers don't take a bigger stand, a stick into my lip, gloss, you go and take a bigger stand, but that's, that's not a really my primary focus. 0 (1h 6m 5s): But for me, I would say like, dang, because what, what it does is it gives an industry that is already legitimized a bad rap. It gives us folks that are, anti-porn more of a reason to want to speak out. I don't, I just don't, I'm not with the anti-porn argument. Cause it's just the genie's already out of the bottle to me, it's like, it's just, it's like splitting hairs. I, I'm not really that I'm not worried about willing adult entertainment. I'm just not, you know, that's like the least of my concerns. Like, can we just get rid of the child porn? Like, that's my concern also. 0 (1h 6m 50s): I feel moving ahead, you know, we'll be dealing with things more along the lines of like CGI deep, fake, you know, that's where I'm seeing things headed anyway, that sort of like virtual reality experience with adult entertainers. You know, I'm not that pressed, I'm not crest, but I think it will be awesome if folks from that are, you know, sex workers that do it willingly and are willing adult entertainers. If they did speak out and say, yeah, we don't want this in our, like, what is this doing in our, in our space? I don't know. 0 (1h 7m 30s): I, I would be mad at PornHub if I was an adult entertainer, but I'm not. So it's not my battle. 2 (1h 7m 38s): Yeah. Unfortunately it's kind of the same company is everyone else, like all the other mainstream. So people that don't have alternatives for a shooting, they can't really say anything. Otherwise they're completely out of a job. And again, I don't know why you just wouldn't. That was also one of the things that didn't make sense to me. So you had Facebook that turned in millions of videos saying this is here and it's is obviously a hidden, a little bit better because that platform doesn't have just nudity every everywhere. Right. It's a lot harder to find. And I believe that the messages are like somewhat encrypted sometimes. Like 0 (1h 8m 16s): You have different ones because they all have multiple platforms. So that's across. So when you see that Facebook number, that's across all Facebook, but on the platforms. So Instagram as well and that's on everything. 2 (1h 8m 28s): Okay. But the point, I guess, where I'm going is it's a lot harder for them to find that there, I think the verses on PornHub where like nudity is accepted. So like you should be filtering and like seeing those things. So, or I'm sorry, again, allergy medicine network. You think it's harder for you to find it on PornHub because there's so much nudity. So to say, I want to say they, it was like a handful of cases and they're like, this is all we found in 2019. And I'm like, there's no way that's it. Corn has got to be more. Yeah. 0 (1h 9m 2s): Did you ever have to have reported zero on child sexual abuse material to the Canadian authorities or to the national center for missing and exploited children for over 10 years they reported zero, which is a zero. They reported zero that I could stand corrected. 'cause I saw a w <inaudible>, which is a can of Canada's version of uhm, which is Canada's version of a, what we call that 60 minutes. They had a slightly different, but it was like a very small numbers. I have to go back and check because they might have some updated information. Some, you know, but as far as I knew, when the national center for missing and exploited children, numbers came out for 2020, they had only reported after and they were closed. 0 (1h 9m 49s): They claimed under oath so that they were using, you know, Microsoft sort of DNA and other proprietary tools after the Nicholas Kristoff, New York times, the children, a porn hub opinion piece came out that was after that, they started reporting. So the number that they did report, which I think was 13,222, which would be across all of a mind game platforms. So all platforms that might be owned including PornHub, a 13,222 reports. Now there's another nuance there as well. That the number of reports doesn't necessarily equal. Number of images of videos. Each report can contain any number of images and videos in it. 0 (1h 10m 31s): So you could see 13,000, 320 to each report kind of contained 5,000 images or a 5,000 videos. So we don't know, and that's information, that's not publicly available. The national center for missing and exploited children keeps that close to the chest of how many exactly came from what platform. So you can do it that way you will. 2 (1h 10m 53s): So when it comes to moving forward and solving this problem, and obviously we have an obsession with, of privacy, right? Yeah. We all have a telegram or WhatsApp or signal like these are important for people, but at the same time, it's like a whole at what costs. So it's, it seems really difficult to have of these freedoms and then also be able to solve this problem. And then also when it comes to government regulations, like how much do you want the government to also have control over a private company in what they can and can't do with their business? So, I mean, again, I'm kind of anti YouTube say I don't love free explicit content out there, but I also don't want someone telling you that you can't do it. 2 (1h 11m 37s): And like we mentioned earlier, there was still numbers on Facebook's companies and Instagram. Like it just, if you could snap your fingers and get rid of the tube sites and there is still going to be 100% a problem. So how do we, I don't know, like where do we, where do we begin when it comes to solving this issue? 0 (1h 11m 55s): Well, first talk to your kids, educate your kids, educate the youth and let them know, you know, as far as sending sexually explicit material, having good relationships with children, having them have safe people around them. So God forbid, if they're ever in this situation, they have someone to talk to 'em that's number one. Number two is a really aggressive, updated artificial intelligence that can sweep that could sweep these platforms and remove it at scale. And then the next would be, you know, for these, these platforms and the different sites, whatever, to have a process, easy reporting process, to report child sexual abuse, material, nonconsensual, and material. 0 (1h 12m 40s): And I've seen some folks say, you know, a 24 hour line that survivors can call and say, Hey, this is, you know, this is up. Can you please have it removed? I think it would be really intelligent for these platforms to be very aggressive about this. It will only benefit them in the long run because they're going to get sued a lot. Now it's done, you know, pornhub's being sued multiple class action lawsuits, multiple class action lawsuits with children, international class action lawsuits. And they're going to keep coming. This is just the beginning of PornHub, a porn hub getting sued. They are gonna keep calming same with Twitter. 0 (1h 13m 21s): Facebook's also, so, you know, Facebook's also being sold a suit by three minor survivors of sex trafficking. That case it is a little different, a little bit more of those cases or a little bit more different and a little bit more nuanced. But now that survivors are starting to get hip to the fact that they can Sue. If these platforms are not aggressive, they're gonna lose their shirt. 2 (1h 13m 46s): So when that one video that you were saying got shared, viewed over a a hundred thousand times and show you how many times is it shared? 0 (1h 13m 54s): And it was viewed over a 160,000 times from the first day. And it was shared over 2000 times. 2 (1h 13m 59s): So all of the people that I'm engaged with that content, like that's a felony as well. So are those a user's being tracked and turned in or a week? Are they just focusing on, on the platform with Twitter or to discuss that right now? So you can't okay. But legally though, right? It is to engage with the content or to come across the content and not report that. I do believe its a felony, which is why they tell you to be careful when Yeah, please. If you don't report it, 0 (1h 14m 30s): You say that they can screenshot it and I'm like, Oh, that's the worst thing don't ever screenshot the material. Just report, report to in the national center for missing exploited children report to the platform that you see it on and please report it to the FBI as well. I don't screenshot anything. Yeah. There's some things that I can't discuss with a John DOE case. Okay. 2 (1h 14m 54s): Okay. So, okay. So are you allowed to say if you're a like involved with like their defense team or with like maybe as an advisor? Is that also, 0 (1h 15m 4s): Well, I publicly advocated for John to one and now I'm publicly advocating for Jondou too. 2 (1h 15m 9s): Okay. Yeah. I think that's great. Yeah. 0 (1h 15m 11s): His mother and I have testified a in front of members of Congress together as well. I was trafficked on Twitter, so there's still a crossover there. 2 (1h 15m 20s): Okay. So that's why you are so involved with US. Okay. 0 (1h 15m 22s): Would be involved in it. Even if I wasn't trafficked on Twitter. John does case, you know, a lot of cases have broken my heart over the year. There isn't one Survivor, you know, but John Doe's case specifically really impacted me in a way that I just, it just, for some reason John <inaudible> case and now John DOE and I'm so grateful he's stepped forward, but really, really impacted me. There was just something there. I think it was the fact that Twitter wrote back and said that they wouldn't remove the content after review. I think that was really what I was like. 0 (1h 16m 4s): Okay. Okay. Game on. Let's do it. So that's why I have been extra aggressive about John DOE. And I also, I don't think that it's a secret, I I'm the one that got the whistleblower. There was a whistleblower as well. I'm the one that, that connected the whistleblower to the, the legal team. Okay. 2 (1h 16m 25s): Oh man, this is giving me goosebumps because I just can't help. But think as a parent, all of the time now in these situations. So that's like the role that I, I kind of a few everything. And if I only had my child come to me and he's like, there's this video online that has all of these views and the platform won't take it down. I'm like, what do you mean? Maybe you just have to start having that person tweet that they want Donald Trump to it and then they'll take their account down. You know what I mean? It's like the things that we choose to focus on, I think are absurd when there's actual like atrocities that are happening. Okay. 0 (1h 16m 57s): This is a real human rights violation for real. 2 (1h 17m 0s): This is so with that, with that protection that these platforms have, because right now they have the protections of a utility, but obviously they're not acting like a utility. It's similar to I'm if you have for horizon, right. And for Amazon is not responsible for the phone calls that are being made or the texts that are being made. So you get a lot of tax breaks from that, a lot of legal protections for that. But then at the same time, they are acting like just a regular private company because they are censoring things that they, that these deem worthy as oppose. So if they were to lose that, that right then I guess, do they, would you see an uptick in censorship as well? 0 (1h 17m 42s): So This, so in 2018, a foster Acessa was signed into effect and foster assessed covers This, like, you know, John DOE and other cases like it, if they are knowingly. So this there's already the amendment info and to section two 30, why they tried to claim section two 30 protection, given the fact that foster such as they were just trying to they're trying, it is just the horrible look. It's like cut the young man's to check and fix your platform. But instead they want to fight it, which I think is disgusting, but whatever, they could do, whatever they want, it's their platform. But there are, there's already the amendment in section two 30 in this particular case, as far as section two 30 goes, I'm not a big, I'm not really a big advocate for somebody that speaks out. 0 (1h 18m 32s): I don't have a problem with two 30. I mean, I don't think that they should be liable if you say something mean to me like, Oh, Eliza, you're fat and ugly. And you're, haven't seen your Barbara in a month. You, you know, like if you say that, like, I mean, I don't think that they should be liable for that. You know what to say? And like, I mean, so there is like line's, and especially in this climate, in, in, in, in this culture, I don't think, you know, the other thing too is I think people think that I want to like get Twitter canceled or have Twitter come down. I just want them to do the right thing and stop profiting off of human rights violations. I love Twitter. I be bummed if they are, if they went down to Today, you know, I want them to do the right thing. 0 (1h 19m 13s): I want them to be the first platform to really change, you know, a porn hub. That's a little bit of a different scenario. It's almost like, I feel like Twitter still has a chance. I felt like they still have a freaking chance and I've seen them do a lot of bogus things. They've done a lot of, both those things to me, that's okay, I'm not going to hold it against them, but we needed to do the right thing at least by the kids. You know what I mean? 2 (1h 19m 39s): So do you think until like the AI catches up to being able to find this content, do you think that getting rid of explicit content is an easier path for them to go? So then it's just none of it's available or do you think that there is still going to be a way for people to be posting? Those kinds of, 0 (1h 19m 56s): There is a question nobody's ever asked me. That question, getting rid of the willing adult content would be the fastest, fastest, and easiest way to remove all child sexual abuse, material and human trafficking from Twitter, or, you know, PornHub. But like you said, before, it won't solve the problem. It will be putting a bandaid on it. My solutions to this problem that I push for constantly have a more human centered focus. I just want everybody to be safe. I don't want the willing adult entertainers to not be able to feed their family or God forbid, one thing I've talked about a lot is that if we pull down these big sites, like we saw with Backpage with a back page, went down, which was a successful, like I was trafficked on Backpage. 0 (1h 20m 46s): You know what I mean? I know there was a pre folks that are made a living off a back page, call, whatever I was Trafficking on Backpage. That's my experience. You know, we did see a spike in online human trafficking, things like that. We have to be very conscientious when we just pulled down everything all at once. What we don't want to do is increase human trafficking and exploitation. So if you're a main primary source of income is coming from these, like let's say like you're using Twitter as your main source to hustle, right? If your hustle is taken down instantly, that leaves you at a higher risk to being trafficked. 0 (1h 21m 26s): That's what we don't want. We want these platforms to do the right thing without destroying more lives. So the best thing to do is start with removing the human rights violations first. Then we can talk about the other stuff, but my goal will be to not have to remove the two willing adult entertainers stuff too. 2 (1h 21m 44s): Yeah. That's obviously best case scenario 0 (1h 21m 46s): In the best case. That's I hope they do that. 2 (1h 21m 50s): Yeah. What's interesting to me, because there are some organizations that are very anti-porn and various dissect Berk, and they tie it to these humanitarian issues. And I think that they are vastly different things. And if you kind of compare it to what's happening with like the drug Wars right now, or what's been happening with a drug war roars, it's almost like when you make a thing ELEAGUE and this obviously that doesn't apply to children because that's always a legal, that's never, okay. Obviously the kids can't consent, but I'm just talking about adults. When you make things illegal is you tend to make those things a lot more violent and a lot more underground. I was listening to Johann, Johann Hari, and he has the book lost connections. 2 (1h 22m 34s): And he focuses a lot on drugs, addiction and depression. And he was explaining, he is making the comparison to alcohol and he's like, well, you don't see a violent gangsters like smear Knauf and bud light going at each other because they're competitors. You used to see that with Al Capone when it was illegal. And that's why you see all of this happening with, with the cartel is because it's illegal. If something happens, they can't call the police in school, maybe at Mexico, but you can call the police and say, Hey, I need help because so-and-so just like broke into my shop. So you start creating the thing that you are trying to avoid. And I CA I can't help, but relate that to sex work. 2 (1h 23m 14s): It's by making it illegal for consenting adults to kind of do what they want behind closed doors, you arm kind of giving the power to these traffickers because there's no other, there, obviously there are some people that are doing it above ground a little bit, but you are making it harder, I think. And then you're 0 (1h 23m 34s): So I don't. Yeah, I don't, unfortunately, you know, I, I, it's not that I don't care. It's just, I like to just stick to, you know, child sexual abuse or human trafficking or human rights violations, you know, if willing adults, sex workers, I want to advocate for, you know, whatever they want to advocate for. That's fine to me. It's not really, I get what you're saying. I would prefer we've we focused on the human rights violations first. That's that's how I feel. I get what you're saying. I mean, listen, prohibitions never worked. Just so you were saying it's, it's always in a priest. It, the war on drugs was a complete failure. 0 (1h 24m 16s): I think what we found is that meeting people where they're at and I'm also to, I'm very, like, I'm very like a, you know, libertarian, very Michael malice, you know, I'm not to pass libertarian. I don't like to say a libertarian, you know, a I'm a very like Michael malice thinking as far as political stuff goes like that, but we always draw the line of human rights violations. Right. And that, I feel like everybody can agree on like, even, you know, anybody, everybody. And the thing about the drug trade is, you know, Oh, we lost it. We lost the war on drugs. We had to start doing things a little differently and started doing harm reduction. 0 (1h 24m 56s): And that is kind of what we do sometimes when we, when we talked to Survivor. So like in my particular case, harm reduction worked really well in getting me out once and for all against via 2 (1h 25m 10s): Harm reduction. So harm 0 (1h 25m 11s): Reduction. When you talk about, ah, you know, drug folks that are struggling with addiction, you start off in its sort of dunno, I guess it's a little different, but it's like, you know, you start off with like, okay, do you have a clean, clean, you know, needles to use with, or do you have somewhere cleaning to do this? You know, are you, you know, do you lower the risk of, of something deadly to happen? 'cause if the person is dead, there's no chance and coming back, right. So you just lower the risk of dying. So when we talk about harm reduction with human trafficking, if you go back or do you have a safety plan to leave to someone else know where you are? 0 (1h 25m 56s): You know, it just, all we go through, we basically play the movie forward and just make sure it says less as possible until that's Survivor. Is it a space where them 2 (1h 26m 8s): Ready to choose to leave once a week? Yeah, I guess that's kind of the connection I was trying to make it like, like we, like we said earlier, it's the problem with sting operations is that you are arresting the girl, which doesn't make sense to me at all. Especially if she's a victim and especially if she's in a dangerous situation. So now you're punishing her for being a victim. And that doesn't mean that. 0 (1h 26m 32s): And we also have to think of what that does to someone's life, to once that's on your record. Like, so then when you come out and you're like, okay, I don't want to do this lifestyle anymore. Or this isn't the lifestyle for me anymore. Then you have that charge on your record. Like, so then you go into Walmart or subway or, you know, somewhere to get a job or to drive a bus or whatever you decide you want to do. Right. You have that charge on your record. So then survivors get into a spot where they're like, even if they want to get out there, there's things holding them back. And it's just creates a really horrible pattern. 0 (1h 27m 12s): Yeah. I'm not big on stinks unless it's minors endless. It's a case where you're tapping people that are trying to purchase minors, then I'm like, please get those creeps off the street. 2 (1h 27m 24s): Yeah. It seems like the most proactive thing that I guess the average person can do to is just, like you said, preparing your kids, talking to your kids. And I think a lot of people are uncomfortable because they don't know what to say, or maybe they don't have the resources or they just maybe live in a place where they think that this is never going to happen to someone that they know. But I think the best thing you can do is prevention always regard when it comes to keeping yourself safe in your family's safe. M do you have like any favorite resources that you guide people to for, for prevention? 0 (1h 27m 57s): It depends on the age. It definitely depends on the age. There's, I've seen some, so for really young kids, there are some cartoons available that talk about, you know, different, dangerous there's, there's different books. You can purchase a lot of the organizations that are like more national organizations have tools that you can walk through with your kids. You know, I'm kind of thinking about doing some stuff that's aimed for a little bit, because a lot of the podcasts that I do are aimed at adults. I think it'd be really cool to like have podcasts that are aimed a little bit more at a younger, for a younger demographic with it really go through and explain things. But there are tools and resources out there. 0 (1h 28m 38s): It just depends on the age, as far as I'm concerned, if it's the youth, if the youth that you are talking to is over the age of 10, they're going to see in here at all. Anyway, a lot of these youth, especially the preteens and teenagers know what a blow job is. They know is that, you know what I mean? You're not, you're not, you're not coming up with anything. They haven't heard. I was a father reached out to me the other day and said that he had watched one of my podcasts with his teenage daughter, because unfortunately both of his teenage daughters were being groomed, preteen and teen one specifically. And he watched one of my podcasts with, I was doing, it was a comedian, Kristy, Mar I should say is just an entertainer. 0 (1h 29m 23s): And she is really edgy. I was like, Oh my gosh, you watch it with your teenager. You know? But you know, she started crying. She, she was transparent about what was going on after that, she related to it. So I was like, okay, maybe there's something in there. So I'm kinda thinking about maybe making something for, for a younger folks that were a little bit, I don't know, more edgier, but trust me, these, these kids, they already know what's going on top of your freaking kids', you know, the, the, our United States governments that has the Bleu campaign, the, the Bleu campaign has some material for, for parents to, okay. 2 (1h 30m 1s): Yeah. I'm not familiar with that one. 0 (1h 30m 3s): It's not my favorite because I kind of think it's a little corny. I think that's part of, I don't know, as I'm kind of getting into my own, like footing a little bit, I'm just trying to, like, I feel like a lot of the educational tools are kind of corny. Like it's like if I was a teenager, would I pay, like, I would really think that was lame, you know? 2 (1h 30m 25s): Yeah. I guess it's probably trying to find a line between like educating them realistically and not scaring the shit out of them so that they can't function. I think that's also probably a little bit confusing to navigate. My dad was a cop, so I like probably like three years old. I was having these congresses 0 (1h 30m 46s): In the lecture slides. 2 (1h 30m 48s): Yeah. And he's like, just so you know, the world is not Disneyland. And these are the things to look out for some 0 (1h 30m 56s): Sometimes when I'm talking to kids, I say like, you know, I'll talk to them and I'll be like, you know, in case any of your friends, you know, a taste of your friends say anything like this. So you kind of turn them into a helper, you know, to let your friends know that this is happening and they could come to talk to me. It's not, it's not necessarily scaring them, but it's also opening the conversation, showing that you are cool. And that that door is open in case it's sort of a bittersweet in a way. It's like, OK, the world's trash, the trash is a lot of predators out there, but if somebody's trash comes in, your comes in you're world, you can talk to me about it. 2 (1h 31m 39s): Yeah. So with your podcast, you were mentioning earlier that you were having survivors on, which I think is amazing. I think that there's something you can take away from, from your experience that a statistic isn't, isn't going to provide the same kind of effect or, or someone who is advocating without experiencing it. Like you can see like this living, breathing person. And I don't know. I think it just hits a little bit different. You also said that you we're going to have some of the trap, like a key, was it accused traffickers or like confirmed traffickers convicted. Convicted. Yeah. 0 (1h 32m 13s): So the deal, so yeah, so M my podcast, which is, this is why I got a spin off this guy. I have been when you start this gum, but if I have nothing to split it into a hundred percent, I don't want a break the flow, but I'm like, okay, hold on. I got, so, so the idea from a podcast, listen to how crazy this is, you know, I have started. So when I first started doing interviews until very recently, I was just streaming on my phone. Like I would do all my, in my interviews, on my phone or at the office. And because I didn't have a computer, I didn't have internet. 0 (1h 32m 56s): I had no equipment, I have nothing. And finally, some folks decided to do a fundraiser because advocates don't make a lot of money, making sure we don't make anything, but some of my friends did a fundraiser and got me, the equipment is who actually have a streaming right now. And this, a computer that they fundraise for me, I was like, so touch is still like, kind of brings, it makes me emotional a little bit, but because I said I wanted to do a podcast. So the idea for the podcast is interview survivors of, you know, human trafficking and sexual assault, hopefully some survivors of domestic violence as well. 0 (1h 33m 37s): And, and then convicted convicted abusers as well, pimps, pedophiles, and traffickers. 2 (1h 33m 44s): So what's the angle M on the ladder. So are you just maybe trying to get like an inside scoop as to how they think and operate in order to maybe like, help bring awareness to that for like law enforcement and these private sectors, I guess, because most people are like, let's not talk to those people at all. Right, 0 (1h 34m 2s): Right. Right. Well, our floor, there's a lot. There's a lot to unpack there. Right? So most people are so there's a lot there. So first the first sort of idea for it was that there is, there are survivors that are abusers as well, or abusers that are survivors as well. I served my first Survivor. That was a convicted abuser. And he was 13 years old in a lockdown facility for sexual offenders. He is also a survivor of human trafficking. And come from this school of thought that the two things can be true at once. 0 (1h 34m 46s): And that even though he's a convicted abuser, he still deserved healing an aftercare as a survivor as well. I tend to be a little bit more compassionate towards a abusers and people hate that. It's, it's, it's a desk I'm desperately trying to understand why these crimes happen in the first place. Unless you go to the source, we won't fully understand. Only in an abuser can fully understand the thought process, what their life was like leading up to the crime and what tools they use to groom and manipulate victims. 0 (1h 35m 30s): They will, I feel, and I could be wrong, but I feel that they will be the best at explaining it when we can start to unpack those nuances. And we can hopefully prevent it from happening in the first place. My first interview is scheduled to be with Theresa J home. She is a public Survivor of Jeffrey Epstein and Maxwell as well. Right. 2 (1h 35m 53s): Oh, wow. Yeah. That's going to be a powerful episode. 0 (1h 35m 56s): Yeah. I'm a, well, I'm already nervous because, well, number one, I never thought I'd be like interviewing people shot at me like what it is, but, but I did an interview with her and Dr. Judy the other day, and I was not, I did not handle it well because she and I are very close friends, so I did not handle it. Well, I was crying while she was talking. So my hope is that I can do her story a justice. And I'm really interested in talking to her about the grooming process. She was groomed by multiple women. 0 (1h 36m 37s): I really want to unpack in depth what that process was like, not focus on the abuse specifically. 2 (1h 36m 45s): I think that's important too, because especially, I think if it's coming from a woman, it might be harder to pick up on those, those red flags, because I think we tend to let our guard down. Yeah. You're like, well, she's not going to overpower me. And she's she gets it right. Like she's probably had similar experiences. So she is on my team. So I think that sometimes, maybe women can be the worst ones because you don't have that biological guard go up like, Ooh, got it. Someone who's bigger, stronger, more powerful than me. Maybe I should be on my toes a little bit more. I know for me, that's definitely definitely the case, but I love that. You're saying that you do have compassion for these people. I think that's such a powerful part for people to try to come to grips with when it comes to healing. 2 (1h 37m 31s): We're all people, no matter the most evil thing we've done, I think everyone is a person that has the story. And I think in an unfortunate reality is a lot of people that are like predators or doing these things have also been victims as well. So as if we could stop that cycle from happening, like that's when you have a real change and you're not going to get to a real change by just hate, like blindly hating anybody, no matter what the atrocity is, you have to be able to see them as human to solve the problem. So I think that's huge on your part, especially because of the path that you've been on. So I hope that you give yourself a lot of credit because that is, that is really massive as a whole, like people can spend their whole life trying to even get to that and a little cold point, let alone actually encompassing it and living it. 2 (1h 38m 25s): And you are starting a fricking podcast and talking to these peoples, these people. So I really, really hope that, you know, you give yourself some love that that's huge. 0 (1h 38m 33s): Thanks. I mean, you know, I, I look at it as like, I'm willing to see my own faults. Like I'm not perfect either. I mean, by no means, have I created a human rights fi you know, it flipped in a human rights violation on a child, but I'm by no means perfect. So yeah, it was really the child that had me sort of see that dual world, that those things are possible. And, Oh, so in my own, and I don't push other survivors to feel this way, either like survivors, any survivors out there that are listening, this is your journey. Do you don't fall on my, you know, this isn't, I'm not, I'm unique in this way. 0 (1h 39m 17s): Like if sort of survivors hate these people, I get it, trust me, but I am more interested in getting to the root of the problem that I am having my own ceilings about whatever people are doing or whatever, you know, I just, I really like looking at my own negative spots as well. Like I'm pretty capable of doing some horrible things. You know what I mean? Like, let's keep it all the way real. I think we live in a world, you know, with this cancel culture and everything where everybody's willing to point the finger, but unwilling to point the finger back at themselves. So I'm like willing to say, you know, I have some real trash qualities. I've had points in my life where I've done really horrible things. 0 (1h 39m 58s): And there, by the grace of God, go, I could be locked up. And then I have gone to jail, not for that, but, you know, I mean, I have gone to jail a couple of times. And so it's just a dish to a different grace and compassion. I mean, brutal honesty. If I could, I would interview my own abusers, but because they're not convicted, I, I will won't do that. I wish I could be interesting 2 (1h 40m 27s): Then the justice circles around man. So can you give our listeners some ways that they can support your, your projects? Follow you, stay up to date with all of this very important work that you're doing and just support you in any way. 0 (1h 40m 47s): Yeah. My Twitter is at Eliza Bleu at <inaudible> and then my community would, you should think about checking out locals. Locals is the freaking most amazing thing ever. It's a content creator platform that is free speech, censorship free. They don't sell your data and folks can donate it to you there its kind of like a Facebook and patriarch sort of mixed Bridget fantasies on there. And like a mouse is on there. Dave Rubin's on it. Like everybody's on there now. D Dr. Drew like everybody's on their, I can't even name everybody that's on there, but, but I'm on a Eliza, E L I Z a.locals.com. So it's a Eliza dot locals.com. 0 (1h 41m 28s): You can donate to me there. That's awesome. I always let folks know if this is a movement that you want to get involved in. Please think about a donating your time, talent or treasure locally to a Survivor safe house. It's close by you. If you have a skill that I know and everyone listening has a special skill set that was unique to them when they were born. If you have a special skill set, please consider donating your time, talent or treasure to the Survivor space. We need to call up your local safe house. There's a directory on the human trafficking hotline website that will tell you where the closest safe houses ask. You know, Hey, what do you need? You know, if, if you cut hair or find out if any survivors are getting ready to do interviews, you know, if you have a podcast, think about covering this. 3 (1h 42m 12s): There are times of year 0 (1h 42m 13s): Always to get involved, tons of ways beyond just donating, you know, ask if they need some are closed. If they need back to school stuff for any kids, you know, there's, there's tons of ways to get involved and then always go to the human trafficking hotline websites for the most accurate up-to-date information. They also confront conspiracy theories or miss miss 'em on their website as well. So if you're ever a question of something, whether or not there's legitimacy to it, the human trafficking hotline covers that as well. 3 (1h 42m 45s): And I will, I'll keep an eye out for your podcasts hopefully early, hopefully in June. Very good stuff. Yeah. Your birthday. Yeah. Yeah. Well happy early birthday birthday to you. 0 (1h 42m 58s): I really, really appreciate you having me on because it, it always means so much to me when anybody that's in the industry is willing to have these conversations. It's like that to me has been one of the most moving things out of everything is of course, seriously. So, and I say, I see you out here, shine and girl, I was loving your podcast this weekend. I look forward to and hopefully, hopefully as well. 3 (1h 43m 26s): And you have you interviewed, God said that once the same God says, okay, this is the man that I love. That guy is funny. And then I know we've got to go, but yeah, 0 (1h 43m 40s): This is funny. So what I was getting ready to do, doctor do the first time I Dr. Drew who had just had on God's side, I think our time was like right before me. And then right before him, I think was McKayla Peterson, Dr. Jordan, Peterson's daughter, all of these geniuses, all of these doctors, everything. I was like, I was so intimidated. I call my best friend. I was like, dude, I'm like, after God saw that, like he's a genius, like people. So I was like trying to look at all of my facts. Yeah. He can be intimidating, but I think it's important. 0 (1h 44m 22s): It's important to find your own self worth, right? Like you're here for a reason. You have a platform for a reason. I mean, you're on the friggin, Dr. Drew's show for a reason. Yeah. So definitely don't take away too much credit from you. You dream very important, powerful stuff. And I know you have to be changing lives. So you have to, somehow maybe we start doing like a gratitude journal or maybe some positive to me I'm just like, Holy Toledo. Like, you know, you know what I mean? It's just like, you know, I totally do, but I, yeah, I see you are doing good stuff. Thanks for that. I appreciate it. And I'm grateful and thank you for having me on of course. And I would love to have you back to you once you get that podcast rolling. All right, good. 0 (1h 45m 3s): I'm here for it. I'll talk to you later. 2 (1h 45m 6s): Awesome. That's it for this week's episode. If you enjoyed the podcast, please rate and review and don't forget to hit that subscribe button. You can also share this podcast with a friend. It helps my podcast grow and I really appreciate it and hope to see you next week.