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May 10, 2022

#63 Robbie Bent - Breath Work, Overcoming Addiction, and Psychedelics

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Robbie Bent is the CEO and co-founder of Othership, a physical space, platform, mobile app and community. Othership combines transformational breath work and physical spaces built around sauna and ice bath classes to improve individual and collective well being.

Links and Resources:

Othership Breathing App

Othership Website

Othership YouTube Channel

Robbie Bent’s Twitter

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0 (0s): The ice bath actually increases dopamine in the brain two and a half times, same release as cocaine. And so that was my drug of choice. And so it's very much like something that you can replace. That's giving you stimulation, making you feel alive, but it was healthy. 2 (17s): Hey, everybody, you are tuning into Chatting with Candice. I'm your host, Candice Horbacz. Before we jump into the rest of the episode, make sure that you hit that little like and subscribe button so that I can ping you in your ear with a new update when we post it. And without further ado, please help me welcome Robbie Bent. Well, good morning, Robbie. Thank you so much for joining the podcast this morning. 0 (40s): Absolutely. Thank you for thanks for having me. 2 (42s): So when I first wanted it to do like a topic on Breath Work, I think I was with a lot of other people where they were like, I've been breathing for 30 years. Why do I need to take a course or download an app or have listened to someone, talk about breathing. And, and just the other day, my toddler was on the couch and he just had like his shorts on. He didn't have a shirt on, he was breathing and I was watching his stomach move up and down. I looked over at my husband. I was like, what's he doing with his stomach? And he's like, Candice, he's breathing properly. He hasn't, that's what it's supposed to look like. I was like, oh, nevermind. We just forgot how to breathe. Do you find that to be the case with a lot of new people that are coming into your studio? 0 (1m 26s): Yeah. I mean, I think 90% of people have improper and irregular breathing habits and it's just due to changes in society. So one that's super common is changes in diet from our ancestry and so many like fast food they're acid producing foods. And so they actually changed the way we breathe. We ended up over-breathing to correct our body's pH balance. And so all that means is, you know, where we're supposed to be breathing naturally through our nose and belly. As you mentioned, we start breathing through our upper chest. Same thing happens and through our mouth and the same thing happens when we look at our phone. And so, you know, a hundred years ago, average day you're outside, you're bored, you're relaxed. 0 (2m 6s): You're in, what's called the parasympathetic rest and digest system. Now average days, boom, I'm up phone, social media discourse, slack notifications. What are my kids up to? And so it's just continued states of stress, which also triggers your body to breathe in properly through your chest. And that's why it's so unclear. It's like, well, why are they breathing through their belly? And it's because through stress and changes in diet, most people have improper breathing pattern. So, 2 (2m 34s): Oh my, I didn't know diet was part of it. I knew stress absolutely was. And you know, obviously these constant hits of, of cortisol are getting with all these pings and dings and notifications. But yeah, I had no idea that it was, you could balance your pH without that actually makes a lot of sense. 0 (2m 49s): Yeah. And so, so that's w one, right? It's just, people come in and are like, wow, I didn't even know my, my breathing patterns are off. And so there's this really interesting test you can do. It's the called the bolt score. And so it's your body oxygen level. Like it's one thing to breathe in. You're getting oxygen into your lungs. It's a whole other thing is are you absorbing that oxygen in your brain, your cells, your organs or tissues where you need it to function. As you can do this test in the morning, you breathe in, breathe out, hold on empty. And you wait until your diaphragm contracts. So it's not a contest of how long can you do it. It's just when does your diaphragm contract? And if it's under 20 seconds, which it will be for almost everyone, it's a really good sign that breath work and breathing practices can improve your body's oxygen levels. 0 (3m 35s): Now, why is that important? It's important because this determines like fatigue, quality of sleep, focus, willpower, all these things. If your brain isn't absorbing enough, oxygen is going to have a huge impact on your life. So a lot of times you think all I'm anxious, I'm a stressed person and it can literally just be your breathing habits. So we really like to start off with that and say like, Hey, if people understand the why, you know, then they're much more likely to make a change. And so for most people, it's like, yeah, exactly. As you said, I've been breathing for 30 years. What difference does it make? So that's kind of a test we'll give and explain like, Hey, you know, if you're not sleeping well, you're feeling anxious. You're feeling stressed. 0 (4m 15s): It can totally be a result of breathing. Then the other thing we get them to realize is you can actively change your nervous system state and under 10 minutes. So you can either push. Yeah. Right. So most people don't know that. And that's a big difference for meditation in that way. So a lot of people have come and said, well, what's the difference of meditation? I've tried calm. I've tried Headspace. I can't make it a habit. It's really so hard. You know, I sit down and just thinking nothing happened. My mind is wild. I got, people's like, oh, I've tried it four times. I've tried it five times. It just doesn't work for me. And we've seen a lot of those people use breathing techniques. And under 10 minutes it's like exercise, right? You create a physiological state change. 0 (4m 57s): So you can either push the gas pedal that gets morning. I had my morning coffee. I did a five minute Breath Work now. And so I'm turning on the fight or flight. I'm increasing focus, clarity, like ramping up and telling my mind, Hey, be aware. And so this is the same thing that naturally happens. You know, when you're nervous or fearful, it's a boom hypervigilant state on the opposite. After we finished the podcast or, you know, later tonight when I've been working all day, I want to spend time with my wife, she's pregnant, you know? And so I really want to like be there with the feeling of the baby and like being emotional and that when I'm in fight or flight, that's not accessible. And so I need to move into the other side of my nervous system rest and digest. 0 (5m 40s): And so that part of the nervous system is like, you know, when you're eating food, you're having sex. You're gazing. You're laughing with friends. Like, you know, that feeling of, wow, I'm in nature. I'm around people. I'm happy. I feel joy. And so you can get access to that nerve part of the nervous system through long, slow, deep breath, deep into the lungs, slow exhales breath, retentions. You may have heard of Navy seals say like box breathing for focus or 4, 7, 8 breathing for sleep. So really the first things we're thinking is like, you are likely breathing wrong. You can improve all functions in life. The same way, you know, you do with diet or sleep or exercise, right. Breath is like the fourth pillar of health. 0 (6m 21s): And then under 10 minutes, you can also control your nervous system state. And people hear that. And they're like, whoa, that's fucking amazing. And they try it. They feel it in one session. So we've just seen it as such a nice intro and to kind of like things that were unaccessible for many people, 2 (6m 38s): No 10 minutes sounds amazing for most people, because I think the thing that's intimidating when you're making any kind of habit changes the initial commitment. And you're like, well, I don't have the time. It's a narrative that we all tell ourselves. Or most of us tell ourselves, but 10 minutes, it's like, you can take 10 minutes to make a sandwich or to make a coffee. And if you know that you can take 10 minutes to have an actual state change, like how powerful is that? And I think that's what I think interest started getting me into this deep dive into Breath Work was, was the effect that it can have on state change. And like the psychedelic effects that a lot of people talk about and you're like, well, how can you have a psychedelic effect from breathing? 2 (7m 18s): I have not yet been able to achieve it, but I went to this like retreat was a week long retreat in Aspen in the mountains. And it was gorgeous. It was this giant group of people and they were doing holotropic breathing. And it's what you would see, I guess. Cause I was like the only one that maybe it's like, didn't get where I needed to be. Or maybe I shouldn't say needed to be, but I didn't get where everyone else was. And I saw, you know, like the Tiffany, like the lobster hands happening and people were crying. People were shouting and people were like dealing with all of this trauma. And because I wasn't there, I was like, I don't understand how the breath is getting you there. And I mean, my husband was right next to me and he was having, I looked over and he was all scrunched up and I'm like, I know he's not full of shit. 2 (8m 2s): So if it's working for him, like I know that it does work. I was curious. And this is like his little theory. And to me it makes sense. Have you had issues with like moms being able to get to that space, like moms struggling to be able to get to that release or like, like where they're, where they're scrunching up and having that psychedelic effect and like fully letting go. 0 (8m 23s): Yeah. So let's, let's dive in. This is something we haven't even covered yet. Unless like again, like why, why is it what is happening when it's this psychedelic effect? And so what's happening is over time, you're increasing your breathing, pace, your breathing out more and more carbon dioxide. That is big. What holotropic is, is a faster breathing over and over and over. And so what happens is your blood vessels constrict and they hold onto more oxygen. And so the oxygen flow to the brain decreases like 90%. And basically what happens is in your brain, you have this part called the prefrontal cortex, which creates your thinking mind. And so you wake up and it's, you know, I'm not good enough. What about my kids? You know, do these people love me? 0 (9m 3s): What's going on with my job? What about my financial security? I want this new house. It's just relentless, nonstop, right? Especially in our overstimulated society. And so the style of Breath Work shuts down that part of the brain, same thing that happens with psychedelic medicine, same thing that can happen with deep meditation and your limbic system. The emotional part of the brain starts getting all these signals because the oxygen levels have changed. And so it's like a full system reboot, your sense of self changes. So your, your ego and like your person, your identity, it just softens your sense of time changes, your sense of memory changes. And so what's happening in your brain is like going haywire. 0 (9m 44s): It's, it's basically rebooting. And as a result, what they believe to be happening is when there's not such tight control. And there's a lot of like research around this, your body begins to process emotions. It's called like somatic completion. And so imagine your whole life you're experiencing, you know, failures and rejections and all these things you're holding on too tight. And they can be very simple. Like, you know, maybe you handed in a project at work and someone was like, this is stupid. And you feel that, oh, you know, you asked a girl out and she said, no, I'm not interested. And you feel that rejection. So you feel these things in your body, you have all these unresolved emotions, animals don't do this. They just process. And so what happens in the Breath Work is shutting down the part of your mind, that's protecting you from getting hurt and then start to process these emotions in your body. 0 (10m 30s): And that's why you see people like they're climbing up and then you might hear a crazy screams and cries. And you know, I see a woman who couldn't leave her house for six months during COVID and then like released all the fear, you know, holy shit, this is insane. And you hear like how old is and whales and cries. We did one last night for 70 people at this amazing yoga studio in Toronto, around the inner child. And in that state of Breath Work, we had people like, look their inner child in the eyes and say, I forgive you. I'm sorry. I love you. And it just tears everywhere. And so what's happening is you're allowing your body. For many people, we don't process our emotions. They're just, they're like blocking them. And so people have these crazy powerful experiences. So that's basically what's happening. 0 (11m 11s): It's not quite the same as psychedelics, but it is extremely powerful if you're like, I went through a breakup, somebody in my family died. I'm just not feeling good about myself. Like I have a posture syndrome at work, like these challenging emotions and you feel stuck. Breathwork in like single session, 30 minutes, 45 minutes, one hour can trigger these like amazing releases. So that's sort of the science around what's happening. And I've seen this for, I don't know, 5,000 people. Now, the question is getting to that state. And so I've definitely seen first time, it can be this breathing pattern is difficult. I'm, you know, having trouble nothing's happening. I'm feeling frustrated. There's a block like getting there, especially with holotropic breathing because it's so aggressive and fast and long. 0 (11m 56s): And so you hear this term like Breath Work and it's like, fuck, this is a lot of work. I'm not feeling it. And so, especially if you, if you're in retreat and everyone's feeling it, and then you're like, oh, I really want to feel this thing. And so on our website, on our app, we've built some specific sessions, 30 to 60 minutes long that make it easier to get into that state by matching the breathing specifically to music at, at faster cadences. So with holotropic, it's so fast And you kind of get like, okay, this isn't not like fun. That's kind of hard. And it's a beautiful practice. But so we have on our app, like 60 minute sessions for manifestation, for alignment, for death and rebirth for self-love. 0 (12m 40s): And so I'd highly recommend trying because the breath is really sinked to the music and it's a bit of a slower pace, but it's easier to get to that stage because you're kind of breathing along to like music that you listened to. You like, wow, this music's amazing. And you sort of get deeper and deeper. So I have seen it's very common for the first time, first two first three times to be like, I didn't feel it. Is this going to work for me? And it definitely will. It just takes a few times to like, the mind is quite strong, you know? And so after you do it a few times, once you hit it once you're like, oh shit, okay, I get it. 2 (13m 14s): Do you think that there's certain personality types or maybe like self unconscious self sabotaging behavior that can kind of be blocking that because, so I've done. I did do a mushroom journey like sometime last year and I did it with one of my, one of my friends. And for me, I think it's interesting that you brought up the animals shaking because what we don't, if you'd like turn on national geographic and you see like this gazelle that just escaped a lie and it's going to stop it, it's going to shake and that's to reset the nervous system. And because they say that only domesticated animals will show signs of like PTSD or stress or anxiety. It doesn't really exist in the wild. And that's because they have the opportunity to literally like shake it off. 2 (13m 56s): So when I had my experience like the first, I mean, time doesn't really exist while you're there. But what seemed like in the first chunk of the experience, like my whole body was just shaking and I just kind of tried to relax as much as I could into it and soften up as much as possible and just let that happen. Because for me, I didn't have so much of like visual effects, but it was that physical release of whatever trauma and nothing specific was coming into my mind. But I don't think that that's necessarily part of the journey. It can just be your body and trusting your mind in that it is doing those processes. But my friend that went, and I guess this is similar to me when I was doing the breathing thing is she did pretty much a hero's dose by the end of it. 2 (14m 40s): And nothing like absolutely nothing. And we had a shaman that was facilitating it and he was trying to help her get to the space, but it just wasn't happening. And after we S we spoke, it was just, sometimes there can be these barriers that are blocking that progress. So do you have any, like any tips for kind of like chiseling that away for someone who's trying to be able to access those, those benefits? 0 (15m 4s): I think this episode, just go back again, you know, and so don't worry too much. Like it's very hard. And so many people who use secular medicines are like super tightly wound. You know, a lot of my friends, I was an entrepreneur. I was an addict. I'm like very type, a very like, controlling, like OCD, like very intense person. And so I'm like terrified and I've probably used psychedelic medicines a hundred times over the last eight years now I use them once or twice a year. But at the time where I was like doing a lot of deep work and now like the thought of going to do a huge dose is actually like quite scary because like letting go is very hard for me and it doesn't get any easier. And I would just say it's very much like going to the gym or going to therapy or eating healthy. 0 (15m 47s): It's not a one and done. And there's a big misconception because a lot of the research is, you know, around depression, PTSD, and it's okay. I've used MGMA wants, and I'm a cured from PTSD. And th the reality is for most people, their nervous system is not dysregulated. And that way it's like functional. And so you use the psychedelic medicines and you feel better for a few months, but behavioral change from like one dose, it's pretty unlikely. And it requires like a whole bunch of stuff around it. So what I would say is if you've gone and, you know, you never know what you're going to get. Sometimes I'll have like the deepest hardest, you know, like this experience of shaking that you had in your body. It's such a good sign. 0 (16m 27s): It's like deep, emotional trauma, like being unlocked and released, and you can feel relief for months. You know, I had one with psilocybin journey where I went into, like when I was a four year old child was the first time I felt fear of like being yelled at and like feeling unsafe in this moment that was unlocked, you know, being yelled at because my snow pants were dirty and like was in it. And my whole body just shaking, like releasing this like inner child feeling of being safe, you know, and like being good enough. And so, but then other times it's just maybe beautiful and a bit of visuals, or maybe nothing happens. And so I totally, it has nothing to do with you. I would just say don't, or the best thing to do is not be attached to the outcome. 0 (17m 11s): And if you don't, if nothing happens with Breath Work, okay. You know, do it again in two weeks or do it again in a month. If nothing happens with the psychedelic medicines, a lot of times for Iowasca retreats, there'll be like three or four times in a week. And the first session nothing happens. And the shaman, you know, practitioners will say like, oh, it's just, the medicine is doing the cleaning. It's preparing you. And, you know, first event, it's kind of nothing second, maybe nothing. And then third, like massive fireworks. So it means nothing about you. It's not like a bad thing. It's kind of different every time. And I would just say, just keep going and you'll get there. 2 (17m 46s): Yeah. And just trusting the process. I think that letting go of expectations is huge because if you it's like the easiest way to set yourself up for disappointment, because you can have something that is truly transformative with whatever medium that you're using. But if your goal was something before you went in and it was, didn't exactly line up with that picture, then you can look at what is a successful experience and then start breaking it down and saying, no, like I'm a failure that didn't work, or there's something wrong with me. There's something wrong with the practice. So I think letting go of expectations is huge. 0 (18m 15s): Yeah. And then the rule of thumb, like just a good one for people. Like, I've never heard of someone using psychedelic medicines like five times and feeling it, so, okay. One totally common, two super common, five unlikely. And so not to put any pressure, but generally like your body is also assessing what dose it needs. And so I've seen people where, you know, one gram of psilocybin will have an impact and I've seen people I know who can take seven. And so it's just totally different per person doesn't mean anything about you. There's no research on why impact some people more or less, you know, sometimes I'll say, Hey, I struggle with like large doses. And I'll be like, oh my God, these people can do it. Like, there's something wrong with me. I'm not a good enough person. 0 (18m 56s): That's why like, all these fears and traumas are coming up and it's, cause I'm not like mentally healthy enough and it's not just not true. There's no research at all. So I think in your mind, if you say, look, if I five times, I'm going to try into this, it's enough for like, usually it's two or three. And so that's kind of a good baseline before saying like this isn't for me. 2 (19m 16s): <inaudible>. So when it comes to, I guess, your journey with addiction and with control issues, and I've heard, you mentioned like you've have ADHD. And that's something that I'm really curious about because my husband has add, and he, like this is years and years ago realized that meditation helps him tremendously when it comes to getting mental clarity and being able to kind of control his focus because he's not really big into medication. So he doesn't really want to have to take five answer Adderall or anything like that, unless it's like absolutely necessary. And he like needs it to get through like a work day or something like that. But he really tries to use like more natural methods. So for your journey, how has like Breath Work and psychedelics helped you be like maintain your focus and, and overcome addiction? 0 (20m 6s): Yeah. So for me, the, the Breath Work in the hot and cold are the ones I do most frequently now. And they're just for a personality that loves stimulation. There are ways I can increase my baseline, norepinephrine and baseline Delta, me and these neurotransmitters that make me feel good, calm, clear, and feel like instantly. And so every day I'm doing breath work in the morning. When I wake up every day, I'm doing it after work to get calm. And then every day I'm using the sauna and ice bath, which are like my favorite things in the world. And those from my personality, as someone who like crave stimulation, like something really interesting for addicts, the ice bath actually increases dopamine in the brain two and a half times, same releases cocaine. 0 (20m 47s): And so that was my drug of choice. And so it's, it's very much like something that you can replace. That's giving you stimulation and making you feel alive, but it's healthy. And so that, for me, it was like a total game changer because I was able to replace alcohol and like stimulation in the evening with something that made me feel alive, but in my body and like also boosted my emotional resilience, which we can, we can get into. So those are the practices now, and those are the practices I've seen for many people as the starting point. But the ones that really helped me when I was at my worst was meditation and psychedelic medicines, you know, again, ADHD. So probably similar to your husband, like I love stimulation. And so if I watch Netflix, I could binge for two days. 0 (21m 28s): You know, if I'm fascinating, I can fast for five days. If I'm working, I can like drink five coffees and just work forever. If I'm going on vacation, I want to do like extreme sports. If I'm, you know, partying, I could do drugs for like three days and disappear. And so I just, I'm a really high stimulant pack. I love activity. And I get so excited about work and I'm just kind of in that case, in that way. So it was really, really hard for me to my first, like even admit alcohol and drugs were a problem. And even now, like when I'm working, you know, I can get so tweaked up on coffee and like excitement of like, yeah, I'm going to like go and build 10 more of these spaces. I get really, really excited. And so meditation was like, essential was the first one for me where I was in. 0 (22m 11s): It's interesting of how you learn it, which is why we went to the ice bath and Breath Work was just cause it was a really hard first step. So, you know, I had calm, I had Headspace, I tried it a bunch of times. And then I ended up doing a 10 day retreat. And if you think of, it sounds crazy, right? You're like, whoa, like 10 hours a day, but pasta retreats, like no talking 10 days, like I could never do that. How do you put it in your schedule? And I kind of went and did this thing and I told 200 of my friends. I wrote an article about it and it just was, it was tough. None of them, none of them did it because of the commitment and the fear. But the reality is I imagine two years of doing calm in 10 days, you know? 0 (22m 54s): So that was the first time I started to note a lot of these feelings of, oh, why, why is it important for me to be successful and make money? Why is it important that, you know, girls like me and I want to want to be loved? Why is it important to have like nice. And these are like shallow feelings, but fine. Like I'm, you know, super vulnerable about them yet. I was insecure and like really needed external validation. And I didn't know that it was just on autopilot and meditation was the first time I started to be like, wow, like there's some serious emotional stuff here from, you know, being young and then psychedelics, which I learned about on that retreat, just help like bring up those feelings. Like we mentioned Breath Work, right. 0 (23m 35s): And how it works, psychedelics do the same thing. But at like, it's like a bazooka. So I went and did some plant medicine work and it brought up a lot of these feelings process them. And after those two retreats and I tried like, you know, a whole bunch of stuff for addiction, but after those two retreats, I have been sober now for over six years. 2 (23m 56s): Well, yeah, I've, I'm fun. A little bit familiar with the work that psilocybin can do for addiction. And it's, it's incredible. I think the work that maps is doing, it's going to be a game changer for a lot of people. And I just wish that it was more accessible for more people. But I have heard a lot of people, you saying that cold plunges specifically have helped some with addiction. And I find that to be so interesting. And you mentioned emotional resilience. And I think a lot of that is doing uncomfortable things and having a goal, like whether it be like 20 seconds or two minutes or whatever your, your goal is for that session. But it's excited being able to sit in that discomfort and process it and not bail. 2 (24m 37s): And then I feel like if you do that so many times over and over again, that can't help but show up in your day-to-day life. So if you're having a stressful interaction at like the bank or when you're in your car that that's going to transfer over, but it's, we don't purposely put ourselves in these uncomfortable situations or at least not often enough. So we're not building up that muscle. 0 (24m 59s): Exactly. You, you nailed it so well, better than I could've ever said. And w we should dig into this cause, cause what's happening is you're putting your body into a fight or flight state, which we talked about before that like fear hyper arousal state. And so you get in the ice bath and bam, I'm in it for 30 seconds. I can't control my breath. I'm afraid I'm in it. And what you teach yourself over time every day through training is how to use your breath, to move back into the parasympathetic, right? To like take a stress response and work through it. And so how else can you train yourself to do that? There's no other way. Like once you're angry, you're afraid you're embarrassed. Something happens in life. 0 (25m 39s): You're feeling anxiety like it's too late. You've reacted. Somebody cuts you off, you know, on the street, fuck. You know, you're late for a meeting like boom, you're in it. You're in the emotion. And so the ice bath is a safe way to trigger that fight or flight and then work through it. And so if you're emotionally training every day, which is what we teach people like, yes, it's amazing for health, right? Like tripling the immune system, reducing inflammation. There's all these benefits. You see athletes, professional athletes always using the ice bath, but what's not talked about is this nervous system regulation, boom, going up and then learning to come down. And, and that then teaches you, as you said in your life, like you mentioned, you know, in your car, you're feeling anxious, your, your training, your emotional resilience, which can happen with any of these discomfort activities. 0 (26m 28s): So that's a bit of the science about like why it's important. The other reason it's more important now than ever addiction is at all time highs across like every category. And you think of what the human brain is faced with now. So let's look at TV. Okay. It used to be like, come home, I've got 10 channels. There's commercials. I'm kind of in it. But like, you know, now it's bam, Netflix, Amazon prime, apple TV. I can watch for like 20 hours, you know, even worse. You don't pick up your phone phone used to be like, just for texting. Now it's like Tik talk right into your brain. Like, boom, boom, boom, boom. So every saying like, you know, food, okay. It used to be, I go to the grocery store and make my food. Now I can literally order like a chocolate crepe from one restaurant. 0 (27m 11s): My favorite pastor from another, like alcohol, from another delivered to my door, like into the brain porn, you know, same thing like every single shopping, every single addiction that human tendency for stimulation for pleasure, the frequency and availability of it has become almost infinite. And so how you counteract that there's amazing research from this Dr. Anna Lemke on addiction, Stanford doctor. She's awesome. She talks about this a lot on Andrew Huberman show and the neuroscience around it, but basically cold fasting exercise. These are forms of pain. And so they counteract their excess pleasure and they kind of reboot the nervous system because if you just pleasure, pleasure, pleasure all the time. 0 (27m 57s): If you think of it, like, you know, a drug addict, who's taking cocaine, you're just boosting your dopamine so much that things like going for a walk, you know, being with your family, like they just lose all enjoyment. 2 (28m 9s): Oh wow. That's so interesting. I never thought about having that. And I mean, I'm a huge believer in balance and like that yin and yang energy. So it makes total sense that if you're constantly seeking pleasure and then you're avoiding pain, that there's going to be that dispatcher, that imbalance. And then it makes sense for a lot of people feeling disconnected when they're doing the little things, because it's not as exciting as like your Viking show that's on Netflix. You're just going for a leisurely stroll. So it's to be able to like, have that appreciation for those little things. That makes a lot of sense. 0 (28m 39s): Yeah. And so we're really just trying to let people know like, Hey, you can use these techniques, whether it's exercise or walk in nature, breathing an ice bath to move out of that sympathetic fight or flight into that person, pathetic rest and digest that space where you can find more, meaning more emotion, more balance, as you said, it's now more crucial than ever. And you know, if you asked or that you, a handful of your friends, I guarantee you that 90% will see I'm overwhelmed. I'm just so busy with my phone. It's crazy. And that's the feeling of everybody now because of the way modern life is. So these practices like they work instantly and they take work, but you know, you can get in a cold shower right now, you know, you, so it's, it's really interesting, like what's coming out to, to help people. 0 (29m 29s): And so I think for your listeners, they should feel optimism. If none of this stuff has worked before, there's some of these like ancient techniques that are becoming popular again. And we've seen, I think in our space, maybe 5,000 people in the last two months and starting to like yeah. Really feel into these things. So it's exciting. 2 (29m 47s): I find it fascinating that we've just accepted, feeling like shit all the time. Right? Like, it's fine that I'm overwhelmed. It's fine. That I'm overworked, that I'm overstressed and that I'm hungry and that I'm tired and that I'm lethargic. And I'm like, it's just, we've accepted that as normal on a grand scale. Instead of saying like, we're not supposed to feel like this, like I'm supposed to wake up feeling energized. I'm supposed to feel good throughout the day. I'm not supposed to need a gallon of coffee to make me alert enough to interact with my children. Like there's gotta be something else. And what I also find really fascinating is it's almost like these ancient practices, like you said, are coming back into popularity. 2 (30m 29s): And I wonder how it is that we forgot all of this really important ancient knowledge. For example, my grandmother is Japanese like from Japan. So is my dad. And so she, the way that she looks at health and spirituality is very different than a lot of the people here in the states. And when I was really little I'm talking like five, maybe even younger, whenever she would give me showers or bathe me, she would force me to do hot and cold and she would alternate. And she would try to explain to me why it was good for me. And I'm just sitting in this ice cold shower, crying, not understanding. And I was like, my grandma's crazy. No one, no one holds I know is making them do this. 2 (31m 9s): And I'm like, man, I wish I listened to her a little bit more and kind of maintain, maintain that practice throughout my adulthood. But I just thought, you know, well, no one else around me is doing it. She just must be like the crazy forerunner that just doesn't understand how things work. It's all. Woo. And now that I'm in my thirties and going back to him, I'm like, grandma, tell me more. Like, what else do you do? What else is the importance of this? Because it's like our, some of our elders have this knowledge and it's just sitting there and I just wonder, where did it go? Like, how did it become so dismissed? 0 (31m 42s): Well, it's really interesting for hot and cold specifically is almost all cultures have a practice. So, you know, in ancient Rome, the bathhouse people would gather to socialize in Russia, the banya and Finland, the sauna there's one on every, every street corner. There's like one sauna per person and Finland, you know, insane in Japan, the onset, as you mentioned, still super popular in Turkey, the hamam, which is like the steam. And then, you know, in Mexico, the tennis scowl, which is like a dark sort of sweat lodge for spirituality and indigenous cultures, but the actual sweat lodge. And so all cultures, since the beginning of time have used this hot and cold, and it's really in north America where it's not commonplace and a strange, a lot of this stuff, you know, for north Americans, they work super hard, right? 0 (32m 28s): It's like, you know, the American dream, like making money, being successful, you know, no vacations, just overwhelmed stimulation. So I, I wonder, I don't know the history of how this happened, but the idea that you're like spending time in nature, eating healthy, moving around, it's just not part of normal life in a city. Like those two things are so different and perhaps at least in my case, it was, you know, in my twenties, I just want to feel successful. I want to feel seen. I want to like have nice things like so bought into the materialism that comes with like our society and TV and social media and all that kind of stuff. And so I don't know exactly why that's happening, but in my case, it was just buying into the materialism and working so hard to like, feel seen. 0 (33m 16s): And so there was no time for these practices. Cause it wasn't, they weren't like of concern of like, it wasn't about feeling good. It was about feeling seen. And then when I started to do a lot of the work, I was like, fuck, what? There's nothing here. There's none of this stuff makes you feel good, you know, but it's, that's a really hard road. And like even still, I have like the imposter syndrome of, oh, I want to make my company bigger. I want to make more money. You want to like have these things and even knowing them, having done all that work, it's still there. So these drives are like really deep. 2 (33m 47s): I think it's so important. I say this all the time for people to really do something where they S they are in a space where they're doing a lot of introspective work to go down to their first principles. Like, why do I think these things, why do I feel these things? Why do I want these things? And I don't think, and I don't know if you're an agree or not, but I think there's something in the spiritual community where there's also an imbalance, because I feel like you can kind of be punished for being successful, or you can be seen as a hypocrite for being successful. And I don't think that there's anything wrong with wanting to build, you know, like a billion dollar company. I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to have a certain salary goal or a certain car. 2 (34m 30s): I think you just have to really know why you want those things and it has to be for yourself or for your family, or like have a healthy relationship with, with finances, for example, versus maybe someone who's like clinging and clutching and being very greedy. There's also a perspective of time is a tool. And time is a resource and time is free, or I'm sorry, money. Money is a tool. Money is time. Money is freedom. And it's having it's what relationship do you have with the material? Not necessarily that the material is bad. And so I feel like it's very easy to just say success is evil and selfish and money is evil and selfish as almost like a protective mechanism. 2 (35m 11s): And so like, I cast this thing away and I'm no longer trying to achieve it. Then if I actually want it and I don't get there, then I don't view myself as falling short. So for me, I think, yeah, like it's very easy to feel guilty about these things. And like, I work too hard. I drive myself too hard, but I think if you do the work to reestablish those definitions, then you can still drive and have the balance and come home and spend the time with your loved ones and be grounded and spend time in nature. But you can be spiritual and successful at the same time. 0 (35m 44s): Yeah. Those are great points. I mean, for me, I'm struggling with the balance. I would say it's an interesting one is not, I'm not like guilty that I work hard, I just, or anything, or like, oh, it's not right to have money. Or like, you know, I want to have a successful company. Absolutely have one of that. My entire life I've been working so hard for 15 years. I'm like, finally, it's starting to work with like something that I care about and it feels amazing, but there's also this idea I struggle with around enough. And so you see this with like many, you know, billionaires, the founder of Starbucks. And it's like, okay, I have clearly everything. I need to be safe now, but like, I want more to feel validated. And so I'm seeing it now, like financially, I'm in a good spot. We've got a super successful location in Toronto. 0 (36m 26s): And it's like, there's two reasons to drive me going forward. One is I go into the space and there's 25 people who are sober now that were addicts. And I see like, okay, this is the situation I was in that I had to like go to Peru and like, figure it out on my own that now these 20 twenty-five people have community here and you see in their eyes and they're like, thank God. I'm so happy. And it's like, fuck. Yeah, that feels amazing. You know, I come in like last night we did this Breath Work. I was telling you there's 60 people. I was with my wife beside her. It's like an inner child meditation. And you're thinking about this inner child and connecting with others in the room. And like, she has our first baby in her stomach and I'm holding her stomach, doing the Breath Work, connecting with my soon to be baby. And it's like, fuck. 0 (37m 7s): Yeah. Like, this is amazing. It feels so good. But then there's part of me. Who's like, okay, you know, we built this thing. We got to open in New York that opened in LA and it's good to have those goals, but I also know that behind those goals, there's nothing there. It's like pretty empty. Like you're not. And so an example was two years ago, you know, my hero like Ben Greenfield, Dave Asprey, like these are guys, I was listening to, you know, to get healthy. And like when I was an addict and I like started doing the biohacking and got into them and now I'm talking to them and like, Ben is using our app and Dave's using our app and it's like, holy shit, like feels awesome and cool, but I'm also the same person. So like, if that didn't happen, you know, so why, and so it's really interesting as you start to hit your goals, like you don't actually change, you know? 0 (37m 53s): And so you can, your entire life, then the goals get bigger. So now it's first. It was, oh, can we only make one studio? And now the studio is crushing it. So we got a second one and now it's like, well, can we go to New York? And I'm probably gonna spend 80 hours a week opening in New York and like getting it, and then we're gonna, it's gonna work. And then it'll be like, okay, I'm the same person as I was two years ago. So just when does that stop? How do you find balance? And so that's kind of what I'm struggling with now is, and for people who are listening yet, it's like, what is enough? You know? 2 (38m 23s): Yeah. I think the answer is going to be different for everybody. And again, I think it's all in how you frame it. So it's like, well, if I open up the more locations I open up and the more people I'm touching and helping to improve their lives right. And create that sense of community. And there's a very big difference between that energy. And then someone who's like, I just have to conquer and I have to like stake my flag in as many places as I can. Right. So both of those things can be wildly successful and have the same, you know, market evaluation at the end of the day. But I think the energy that you sit in is going to be dependent on how, like, what your, like your deep goal is. So, yeah, I think, cause I I've talked to a lot of like my Yogi friends and they're just like, well, I really, I really want my business to do this, or I really want this car, but I feel like I can't do it because then everyone will judge me and think that I'm this hypocrite. 2 (39m 11s): I'm like, no, absolutely not. Like your intention is everything and your, your purpose is everything. So you can't just judge, like that's just judgment. Right. So that should be everything that those people are against is judging. So 0 (39m 24s): Yeah, absolutely. And I, like you mentioned, like clutching and so it's, if you sit in it, it's like, you're going back to your why, you know, knowing yourself. And so I feel the two wives of me, the old way of the I'm unsafe, I need more, you know, I want to do this thing. And then the new me is more of the, you know, Breath Work. I mentioned being around these people, feeling like actually what the product is doing. So it's really, it's interesting to see this old programming of like safety as a, as a child to come up in this clutching like that term. Cause he can feel it when you're like holding on so tight that it's just not, it's not healthy, but that's a struggle for me for sure. 2 (40m 1s): Well, do you feel like when you start to loosen up and you start to surrender and let go and start making these more, these growth minded decisions, like going on these retreats and focusing on your Breath, Work, that these things that you envisioned for your future, where, you know, you're meeting your heroes, like you have these people that seem worlds away, like you're following their, their content and their education to better your life. Like say like, you know, David Asprey or like Joe dispenser, any of these people that so many people look up to you and all of a sudden you're like, whoa, I'm in the same room as them or whoa, I just launched this incredible business. Or I just had this weird serendipitous moment where everything aligned and now I have this opportunity and I do you find that when you start making that those choices and when you start letting go, it's like all of those things just kind of attract to you. 0 (40m 49s): It's honestly been insane. And so I'm like a technical background. And so I'm usually like, oh, the universe, like, you know, I hear that kind of stuff. And I like cringe a bit, even though I've done a ton of psychedelics, it just doesn't, doesn't like resonate with me, but then actually it's so weird. Cause like it's totally happened. Like how we started our business. I was an ice bath in my backyard, you know? And I was working at a theory for a long time and just started having people over in the evening and ice bath fire people hanging out, grew to 300 person community and was just, oh, this is really cool. And you know what I'm doing this every day and it feels right. And let's maybe like make a new space for this community. 0 (41m 30s): So we converted a garage, ice bath sauna, a tea room for like underground in a residential neighborhood. And it grew to thousands of people, just word of mouth. They didn't really care about any money giving it, like for free a bunch of people and just making it like a cool space for the neighborhood to hang out. And then I would go to like local businesses, like, Hey, you should come. And just the word of mouth. And then, you know, COVID hit. And we started doing the Breath Work we were doing in the space online for free for our community. And it just felt good. And it was always, this stuff was so much fun to make a class in the sauna and the ice bath, you know? And so we do an anger release, Hey, who's struggling with anger. Like come in the sauna, we're going to like, think about an angry moment, scream it out together as a community and share. 0 (42m 13s): And we're like, whoa, it just felt so good. And instead of, you know, my twenties, I was like, how am I going to make money? How am I going to be successful? And then I just kind of let go from the psychedelic work. And I was more like, oh, I want to be around good people. And then that transition to being around good people was like, what got me into Ethereum. And that went really well. And then I left with him because it was like, well, how do I, you know, kind of share what helped me with, with others without an intention. Like it was never meant to be a business and I was becoming a huge business. And so it's funny cause you're like if I said all of the universe, but really like letting go and just feeling into what I wanted to do, day-to-day made like such a difference. 0 (42m 53s): And I have one other crazy story about when, about the universe, I guess, But I, so we have these Sonic classes and people are like, well, what the hell is the Sonic class? So it's like 50 person sauna in our new space and Toronto crazy sound system. And so we have this one that's called the rose thorn bud. And so the rose is like best moment of your year. And so you imagine that's the pedal blooming, this is a really nice exercise to do with kids. Actually, a lot of kids use our app and do this with their parents each time as a, as best moment of your day or year. So that, you know, you're doing your Breath Work, you're feeling into it. Then it's like your thorn, which is what you're struggling with. You want to let go. And so teaching kids that they have, like, you know, really good moments, really bad moments, that's part of life. 0 (43m 34s): And in the sauna lights go out, it's complete darkness, they're playing a gong and you're bringing up this moment. It's like, okay, everyone, all 50 people scream to gather to let go. And so you're in complete darkness, crazy heat like, ah, and then it becomes your, your bud and zero byte is your intention. Like what you're calling in now that you've let go. And so it can be like a goal for the year and you know, this beautiful cinema clove smell on the stove, doing breath work. And it's our very first class in this new space we've been working on for three years. Like, you know, COVID is finally over holding hands with my wife and I'm like, yeah, we're gonna have a baby. So we're like looking into each other's eyes and it was the intention. So went home that night and we still weren't like planning. We're going to wait. Cause my sister's getting married this summer. 0 (44m 16s): We're going to wait until after. And you know, we're having sex. And I kind of was like, yeah, what's the intention. And you know, so kind of not thinking too much about it and finish. And it was like, oh, okay, well, you know, one time, you know, whatever. And so two weeks later she's at boxing, he starts, she comes home sick. I feel different. And you know, she got pregnant. And so we CA I got I'm so skeptical of that stuff. And like, you know, we called it in and like, that was the only time we had sex, you know? And like, I kinda, you know, I don't know how to proper like technical terms. I had an orgasm inside of her and that. Yeah. And so she got pregnant and like, it just was assigned to me that all this stuff, like letting go is going in the right direction. 0 (45m 2s): So when I still feel those old patterns to tighten, like what if we have competition in New York or these other places, it's just like, remember how good everything is going, because you've let go. So it's been such a learning on almost entrepreneurship is learning the past couple of years. It's been just beautiful. 2 (45m 20s): No, I, I love that you shared that story because I think for a lot of people, when it comes to fertility or conceiving, that is the number one factor in my opinion about whether or not you're gonna be successful is being able to surrender it's it, is that letting go because that's what it is, especially for like the woman's role is to like be open right open and accepting and welcoming and to have that life be, be brought in. So I think that's beautiful. We had a pretty trippy story too, with our conception story. We, we were told a whole bunch of times it was impossible. I have, I had a lot of autoimmune issues. I was dealing with specifically like thyroid. 2 (46m 1s): And they were like, it's just, it's probably not going to happen for you. So we kinda just like assumed for a long time. It was either going to have to be like adoption or IVF if we wanted to go down that, but we didn't really want to. And we ended up meeting this gentleman. Who's now like a huge part of our life. Like, he's just like one of our best friends. And he's like, well, I have this, this healing meditation that we can do. And he like brought these crystals and it was like this two hour deep meditation journey where there's like drums and it's very intentional and he guides you through it. And at the time, like, I was very curious and very open. I wouldn't say it was necessarily someone who believed in all of it, but I was open to the idea and I was like, this isn't going to hurt anything. 2 (46m 45s): So it was him, my husband and I. And what is the trippiest thing is at one point I felt this intense, like pressure in my throat. Like, like almost like something was coming out of it. And I was really struggling to stay in my space and hold that space. But I was like, I'm just going to do, I'm going to sit in the discomfort. And at the end we do this integration thing where we kind of just like all share our experiences and our, our Sean and Roger will usually go first that way. Like, there's none of this. Like, he's just saying this because I said it kind of thing. So just that trust, that trust foundation, and this was also very new into our, our relationship, like our work together, maybe, you know, a few months in, so he's like, I don't want to like freak anyone out. 2 (47m 29s): I saw this like almost like shadow entity come out. Right. And it's like, we're all meditating eyes closed. So when I say, see, I mean, like, you know, see in your mind's eye and Eric just looks at him and is like, oh my God, he's like, I saw the exact same thing. And then I just get goosebumps. And I was like, well, I didn't see anything, but I felt a lot of pressure. And then like my labs all started going back to normal for my thyroid. I started like, and I did this all on my own, like my medication I got to cut down on. And then within a couple of weeks I was pregnant. So, I mean, you know, there could be, obviously I don't believe in coincidence, but some people may say that they saw the same thing. 2 (48m 12s): I felt the same thing. And then all of a sudden someone who had like 0% chance of having a kid is now pregnant with no intervention, no medication, no nothing. So I think that there's like this, you have to leave space, like space for magic and, and wonder, and serendipity, and like just things that you might not be able to define with, with science as we know it today, because I mean, I've just, I've experienced it. 0 (48m 37s): That's amazing. What a, what a story. Wow. 2 (48m 39s): Isn't that crazy? 0 (48m 40s): It's so, so cool. I mean, it's really special too, right? Like what if you hadn't done that experience, you know, would you have your children today? And then you think of how life, like, how did you meet this person and probably just off the cuff random thing you saw, you know? And so it's totally changed your life. Like one single moment. I often think, because I'm also like I've done these experiences and had stuff like that happen. And, and then I'll be like, oh my God, magic is real. Like universe is crazy. And then three days later I'm like, ah, did that really happen? Like your mind 2 (49m 11s): Is trying to protect itself. 0 (49m 13s): Exactly. It's skeptical. So it's so wild. But in other way to think about it is, you know, 200 years ago, whatever the time like electricity, that's not a thing, you know, you're like, that's that that's just magic basically. Like you can't see it and you can't feel it. And now what do we have? So I'm, I'm, you know, 200 years from now who knows what we'll know about like emotions and how they work. And maybe what happened was just some kind of stored emotion that like someone else could perceive and feel and pull out of you. And, you know, I firmly believe emotions and trauma can make you sick. There's a ton of evidence, You know, PTSD, right? You had this experience, it's stuck in your nervous system and you get sick as a result. And so maybe you had some like PTSD or emotional thing, and there actually is science behind it. 0 (49m 53s): We just can't understand. And like, we don't, we don't have nothing. You know, humans are just like little monkeys on this random planet in space. And so I, that, that is a nice story and really reminded me to just like, if you can find the inspiration and magic of being a child in the world, fuck ya. You know, you're gonna just have a better life anyways. 2 (50m 15s): Oh, absolutely. And I mean, for anyone that wants to do a deep dive, there's a lot of evidence that does suggest specifically with thyroid disorders that that does link to some kind of trauma. So it's so imperative that you do some kind of work you're always trying to grow and it's like you said, it doesn't have to be like this massive trauma where you, you know, you're overcoming addiction or abuse or something. It could be simple as like you didn't get that promotion or some, the girl that you really wanted to take out took you down. It's like all of these little things kind of stack and add up and kind of start to like calcify who we are. And then the, I think, feel like that shuts us off from so many opportunities and just like your aptitude for happiness and for joy. 2 (50m 56s): So it's taking 10 minutes out of your day to just breathe or to sit in a nice bath or to do a sauna and, and just kind of like shed off all of that excess weight that you don't necessarily need. And this is another attribute story. So they've done studies where like emotional trauma and baggage actually leads to physical weight gain. So that sounds crazy. You're like, how is that possible? And I don't understand the science behind it. I couldn't reiterate it if I wanted to, but one of my friends had done, like, he went away for a retreat and it was like the siliciden retreat. And like MDM may like combination. And he said like this, he got overwhelmed with all of these emotions. 2 (51m 40s): And like these memories came up that he didn't really remember that he had. And he worked through that throughout the week. And then within four weeks, he'd hadn't changed anything like, not his diet, nothing about his routine. And twenty-five pounds just like shut off. I was like, that is so incredible. But I've heard of that happening. I just haven't met someone that worked with, so it's, it's being able to prioritize our health, which I think everyone wants to do, especially after the last two years is like, how do I maintain this in optimal shape? And make sure that, you know, it's, it's strong and can endure a virus or auto immune disease or whatever the case may be. And it's like, you have all these tools and they're not that they're not that extensive. 2 (52m 22s): Like it's breathing, it's temperature. It's your mind that you don't have to go and take pills or go run for 10 hours a day. Like, it's very attainable for the average, Joe and I I've been using your app, which I am one of those people that I've tried Headspace and calm, and I'm like, this is all bullshit. I can't do it. Like I'm like, I have like a very driven person. Like it takes me a lot to be able to calm down. So like sitting there in a Zen space is very hard for me. And the first one I did on your app was the energized one. I was having a super rough morning. Like I just like, you know, when you wake up and you just have brain fog and like, you cannot get through that clearing, no matter how many copies you have or what music you put on is just like not getting you there. 2 (53m 6s): So I'm like, I'm going to try his app cause he's coming on anyways. So let's, let's see what this is about. And I love that. You're like, you can move around, move your body. And it's playing this really amped up music. And it was six minutes. It took me six minutes out of my day to put on this app and like, go sit by myself and go do this. I'm like, great. He's telling me I can move step one. That's a success for my personality because I hate, and I kid you not like this. I highly encourage everyone to download this because again, like I'm very skeptical with all of these things. After that six minutes, I felt like a champion for the rest of the day. I didn't need any more coffee. I had this like clear energy. I can't take stuff like, like nootropics. I just get too wired. 2 (53m 46s): And I just don't like how I feel. It's almost like that Adderall feeling. So I can't do any of those. It was like, this is a stimulant free way for me to achieve the mental clarity and like energy level that I want to be as like a business woman and a mom and a wife. Like I don't want to be dragging my feet all day. So in six minutes you gave me a whole day. So I wanted to say, thank you, 0 (54m 7s): Amazing. That's such a good testimonial. It's just so nice to hear the excitement and that it's working. And it's exactly who we made this for. You know, it's a struggled to meditate. I don't have time in my day. Another thing we just added, that's really cool. Even like the biggest problem for all these biohacker communities for, for anyone it's like, okay, new habit, super hard, you know? And so we're like, how do we make this even easier to use? And so we started creating, breathing and walking session. So like this person, pathetic down-regulated stuff I mentioned, but for walking. And so, you know, you're going to get your morning coffee, like, guess what? You know, you listen to Andrew Huberman, you want to get sunshine in your eyes. A lot of people take a morning, 10 minute walk. 0 (54m 48s): So when I'm walking, if I'm breathing in perfect tone, listening to music, that's perfect. You know, you mentioned cooking earlier. So why don't I put on and listen to background breathing while I'm cooking. So I'm breathing up the perfect response rate to move me into that rest and digest. So some of those little tweaks we're making just to kind of like building a habit is so fucking hard. It's like the hardest thing, you know? And so people listening, even if you just do one of these deep dives, like there's some, I recommend next on the app. When you have some time as you and Eric, like one, there's a couples one's called couples energy. And if you have like a date night coming, it's got some tantric practices of like eye gazing, sinking your breaths, imagining breathing together. 0 (55m 32s): It's just so nice. Like, you know, go out for a date. Most couples let's get a bottle of wines, get wasted, maybe watch a movie. Like both of you, it becomes harder and harder to actually connect. And so the practice is pretty easy. It's 30 minutes, you just follow the instructions. And so you breathe together and you like connect. And so trying to like loop, breathing into some of these other things is, is awesome. And then, yeah, the, the holotropic you meant there's some like 60 minute ones on there that you could try on your own or try together, put them on speakers with you and Eric and, you know, see if you can get to that place without any pressure of like doing it on retreat. So that's, I'm like thinking about this stuff every day. Like now my wife's pregnant. 0 (56m 13s): Okay. What can we do for pregnancy breathing? And 2 (56m 16s): I was going to suggest that I was totally going to suggest that because I feel like that's such an untapped market. Like a lot of stuff right now is for like those biohackers. And it's like, how can I be faster, stronger, sharper. But I feel like women, maybe, I don't know if maybe they're not necessarily introduced to this space yet or like what's happening, but I feel like there's just so much potential there because that's such an interesting time in the human experience when you have like these two souls and one in one body. And like, there's just so much weird, energetic exchange that I feel like you have to work with. I know that's probably just, or I'm getting like woo for a lot of people, but for any mom, I feel like they would agree that there's like something magical about this stage of the human experience. 2 (56m 59s): And that there's something that you could kind of tap into with that. 0 (57m 2s): No, I mean last night, like, you know, she's five months pregnant. So I bumped is showing and like I had my hands on the baby and I'm, we're doing the Breath Work if you can't, when you're pregnant, do like the rapid breathing and the long holds it's too much stress for the body, but she was still doing just slow breathing like with me. And you know, it was like, Hey, I can actually feel the baby, like I'm imagining. And that it was so nice. And so I think we were thinking like, okay, if be really cool, she uses this app. I forget the name if I put the Charlotte's, but it's one meditation every day of your pregnancy and it's different. And their meditations around like connecting with the baby throughout the nine months. And she's been loving that. And we were thinking like, whoa, wouldn't it be cool if the baby's born to do some breath works where you eye gaze with your baby. 0 (57m 42s): So you're breathing at perfect rate, but you're like looking deep into your baby's eyes and like cultivating love. And I think, wow, that would be cool. So I just, I love these ideas of you just kind of think of what are people struggling with. And then, you know, somebody came in like, Hey, I just got this new job. I'm always nervous before presentation. So we made like hype up one for okay. Like imposter syndrome, you know? And it's just, you kind of like, we talked to therapists, we think like, how do you, what do you recommend people do to cure imposter syndrome? Or what do you recommend people do for forgiveness? And so we take what they say and loop them the wording and some of the practices into the Breath Work. So it's kind of like a combination of Breath, Work and therapy, but like with fun music and like last night it blew my mind. 0 (58m 23s): There's 60 people on it's like wicked electronic burning man style vibe, like your favorite set, like you're at a dance party, then you're breathing with all these people. And then people are like, woo. Like, you know, but then you're also doing deep inner child work and sharing. And it's kind of, I think the future of therapy is like, you go in community at a $30 price point and you do the work, but you do it together. And it just, I'm so excited about all these things. So yeah. When you started sharing ideas and were like, yeah, let's go. Let's do 2 (58m 51s): No, I, I totally agree. I think it's the future of, of therapy. I don't find. And again, this is personal opinion. I don't find talk therapy to be extremely helpful for a lot of people. I think it's kind of this tool that kind of keeps you on the couch. It's like, how can I keep you here? Because it's still a business. Right? So the goal isn't necessarily to teach the person that you have all the tools already within yourself to heal. I think with therapy specifically talk therapy. It's like, well, no, you need me to guide you through this healing. I feel like that can get really sticky when you have community around you and you focus on these things like forgiveness and you teach someone how to do these, like kind of like mental exercises of like walking through inner child work or walking through forgiveness work. 2 (59m 35s): I'm not familiar with like imposter stuff. I'd definitely want to ask you about that. But you're like, wait, I have all these capabilities to heal myself. I don't need a guru. Right. I can be my own guru. Like if I just, I just need to tap into this knowledge that's been there this whole time. And I think that that's like the most transformative thing you can do for yourself is to do those forgiveness exercises because you don't realize how much of those like little interactions or even big interactions have an effect on the reality like that you see every single day. It's like, well, how do you really feel about your parents? How do you really feel about your boss? How do you really feel about that ex that that wronged you? And if it's your, if you have a visceral response, that means that there's work to do. 2 (1h 0m 18s): And the beautiful thing about having a leader community is that now there's almost accountability, but also it takes away the shame like everyone else is their share, like sharing their deepest, darkest dirtiest secrets. And I'm like, I'm not the only one that feels this way. So it's almost validating in that sense as well. 0 (1h 0m 35s): Yeah, absolutely. We've seen, like if you see other people being vulnerable helps you to be vulnerable, it's actually, if you think of the experience of, okay, so w one, I've done a lot of therapy and I do find it valuable. I think it has limitations, but the, the biggest problem for me with it is just getting into it. And so it's kinda, I don't even know how I'm feeling. I'm on my phone. Do I really want to go into these like hurtful things that happened to me as a child? You know, I'm not broken, I don't need fixing. It's usually like, I went to therapy cause like, you know, I would disappear for two days and be like smoking cigarettes off the fucking ground. And like, you know, holy shit, this is a problem. I should try to get deal with it, but things were broken. And so if you're just coasting along, it's like, well, I don't know if I really need it. 0 (1h 1m 18s): And then if you want to go do it, it's okay. I got to find this person. I'd probably have to interview five of them. I have to like resonate with them. I probably have to share my deepest, darkest secrets and number of times, because it's unlikely, the first person you see is going to be a fit. It's like the human relationships. It's so uncomfortable to tell these like stories of childhood five times and then it's expensive. And so it's also like for me therapy again, personal opinion was okay, I'm broken and I'm going to get fixed. And it's like, I felt like I was going to a doctor's office where the opposite is, you know, if I go into a CrossFit session or a Barry's bootcamp or soul cycle, Felix, you know, Tony Robbins, I'm like, fuck yeah, I'm going to like get pumped and get inspired. 0 (1h 1m 59s): And, and therapy always felt to me like I was sick. And so this idea you mentioned of you're doing it with other community, it doesn't feel like you're sick. It feels like we're all healing together because that's the cool thing. And so I think like changing people's minds about mental health with, you know, that's why Breath Work and the hot and cold are so great. Cause they're cool and they're fun. And like the music playing like the space you go to, it's like, okay, I'm going to this space because it's cool. And then maybe I'm going to throw in a gratitude if forgiveness exercise. And it's like, whoa, that was awesome. You know? So I think there's a lot in the next 10 years where mental health will become cool and it'll be inspiring to, you know, be working on forgiveness and regulating your nervous system and like letting go and posting emotions and stuff. 0 (1h 2m 42s): So I'm really excited for that. I'm glad you, you resonate and feel it. 2 (1h 2m 46s): No, totally. I think your environment is so indicative of the level of success that you're going to have and as well as how open it makes you. So if you're going into this place, that's a very stale and cold and fluorescent. It's going to be really hard for you to embody whatever that goal is because it's just so sterile. But when you are in these other spaces that are less traditional and you're playing this music and you have these lights and you're, you're getting your body into the mix, right. It's not just so cerebral. I feel like that is, that's what we've been, we've been doing throughout the evolution of humankind. Like we've had the fires and we've been doing the nature walks. And for some reason we shifted and made it a lot more clinical. And I feel like that shift is why we're not seeing the results that we want. 2 (1h 3m 29s): We kind of have to go back into that fund space and that more natural and playful space in order to heal and elevate and to be the best version of ourselves. 0 (1h 3m 38s): What's fun for you. What's your favorite fund space? 2 (1h 3m 41s): My favorite fund space. I like I'm a sucker for good music and lights. So like, that's why I went with your app, the music. It really, it was like the first thing that I noticed and it really got me. And then I would say like when it comes to education, cause this is something my husband and I are like focusing on right now is like, it's like lower school. Education is like, you see these traditional classrooms. And I immediately get sucked back into my childhood and I get anxiety and I get dread and I get all the feelings I had going into school all the time. Cause I moved around a lot. So like I already didn't have that sense of security and safety just because it's like new environment, all these predators around you. You're like, I don't know where I fit in. 2 (1h 4m 22s): So that coupled with these like stale white walls and fluorescent lights and cold tiles everywhere, there's not a single plant to be found. It's like what kid is going to thrive in this environment? And then you see all these alternative schools that are very small, but curated and intentionally curated and they're warm and they're inviting and they're soft. And like, well this is going to be, this is the best environment for my child to feel safe. And then if you feel safe and you can explore and if you can explore, then you can like ask hard questions and you can do like, can do the work, but you can't do that. If you don't feel safe, like that's like step one. So I think that's for anything else, it's like, what makes you excited? But for me it's like definitely music, lights, anything physical like that, that helps. 2 (1h 5m 3s): I I'm very much a kinesthetic person. So anything that embodies like me to be able to move. And I think that comes down to safety as well as I'm like, if I feel like I can move, if there's a threat, then I can bowl. But something that requires me to be very still think that's still like a very vulnerable place for me. And I think that that's why I maybe struggle with it. What about you? 0 (1h 5m 24s): I just was just thinking like, well you have to have you and Erica cure space in Toronto. Like the, everything you mentioned, the, the lighting we spent like weeks looking at honestly, hundreds of different tones for which lighting is going to indicate safety because a lot of people are in their bathing suits for north Americans. Like how do we make every one of every body type feel comfortable? And then the spaces is very, you know, the, the smell, what kind of smell indicates safety. So we created a signature for Cedar scent from scratch. Like my partner is a Alchemist and like made this sense. That just makes you feel amazing and grounded and calm. You know, when you come in, one of the classes we have in the sauna, it's called Friday night fever. 0 (1h 6m 4s): And the idea was like, you can take back, social events would make them healthy. And so it ends how the class and there's all kinds of stuff. So there was like some drumming and you just drum on your lap and you're like following along and it's meant to be really fun. So there's an ice ball. People throw it, like, pass it back to each other. So you can act and like, look each other in the eyes, you catch it. And then you shoot it into like a bin. And if you get it in and you get a water and so, and if you drop it, you get like ice over the head and kind of making adulting fun. And then at the end, it's like, we play the song from our favorite DJ Skype, Fred, again, it was called we lost dancing. And so the whole song, it's somebody saying like, you know, in COVID they took our friends, they took this and we even lost dancing and we black out the sauna with a black light and then that song comes on and then it turns into a full dance party. 0 (1h 6m 49s): And so it was just like, Hey, you'd come here. And like the lights, you would feel safe and you would move. And so I really wanted to have you out to experience it because I think you're, I think it's just really speak to what you enjoy. 2 (1h 7m 1s): Totally love to. I, yeah. I saw your video clips and I'm like, this doesn't look like anything I've ever seen before. And I definitely want to check it out. It's right up my alley. Because again, I think, I think people need to have more fun. And I think that that's the beautiful thing about entrepreneurs is like, you see this need in the market and you guys are like the ultimate artist in my mind. Like you take something that was, that didn't exist before you take this blank canvas and you bring it into the third dimension here, here. Here's like a tangible experience that you can have. So yeah. I don't think enough people look at you guys like artists. Cause that's how I see it. Like the ultimate creators. Do you, do you sell like that side? Cause I like, I don't know if like it's just a female thing, but I feel like you should, because I would love to be pumping that through my house. 2 (1h 7m 46s): If you have this Alchemist of professional, it's creating these state changes through, through sensory experiences, right? Like why not scent? I think, I mean, I'd order that 0 (1h 7m 57s): We'll mail sent to your house. So we don't, we don't, we just haven't set up like our e-commerce store and stuff. But what we do is in the space, when you've come for your first session, everyone gets a gift of just two incense sticks and the insect clicks are dipped in the center. And it's just a way to take the experience home with you. We also have these like custom robes that are towels and they have a very like soft feel. And the idea is for many people, especially like downtown Toronto, a lot of people work in finance, collared shirts ties like, ah, you know, you're wearing this clothing and feeling like constricted by your clothes and the pressure of how you need to look. And so we sell the robe and the idea is like, you, you take the robe, you come home, you have this nice, like really relaxed, you know, a piece of material on a, and then you, you like the incense stick and you feel the same way you did in the space. 0 (1h 8m 42s): And so then, you know, you have the app and so you can do the Breath Work that you did in the space during the classes. And the idea is that people can take that feeling home and, and get access to it every day. So it we'll send you some of the incentives to test. 2 (1h 8m 56s): That would be super. Yeah, no, I think that's brilliant because those things can kind of anchor you back. So if you had this awesome experience in the studio, then you have like some things that will bring you back to that, that space without having to try so hard. This was absolutely incredible. I wish that you were closer. So I could go and pay you a visit this week. But I do want to say that I am so grateful for meeting you because I I'm going to absolutely be using your app like every day. Because again, that six minutes gave me my day back and I mean, that can't be overstated. So thank you. Thank you. Do you want to tell the listeners where they can follow you, how they can support you and anything that you're currently working on? 0 (1h 9m 35s): Yes. I think the best, like if you're not in Toronto, you know, the best thing to do is use the app. If any of those resonated, if you're like under 10 minutes, I want to either boost my energy or become a human. After a long day of work, that's available, there's a two week free trial. So you can test all this stuff. And if the price is not accessible, you can DM me on Twitter at Robbie Bent one and just say like, Hey, I'd like to apply for the scholarship for the app and we'll gift you with an annual membership. And so we're really trying to make sure it's accessible and that it's not something that, you know, you can't access if you want it. So that's the best. And you can follow us on other ship.app and Othership T O to like, kind of watch our spaces, what happens there. 0 (1h 10m 16s): And you know, we've got a ton of free stuff on YouTube as well. And then, yeah, we're looking at spaces in New York and Los Angeles now. So if you're in those markets and you want to be customer founding member again, like DME and just like, Hey, I'm in New York and LA that's my email. And we'll let you know that when we come 2 (1h 10m 32s): And the next North Carolina selfishly for myself, 0 (1h 10m 35s): Absolutely North Carolina, let's go. 2 (1h 10m 38s): All right. Thank you so much, Robbie. 0 (1h 10m 41s): Well, 2 (1h 10m 41s): That's it for this week's episode of Chatting with Candice. And before you take off click this little button, it will take you to my community page where you will have access to me and I will have access to you. I promise I won't spam you. I think now more than ever, it is really important that we are able to stay in touch outside the powers that be just, so if I ever need to get ahold of you, I can and vice versa, just click this little link and it will take you to me. And if you're listening, I will include the community SMS phone number in the show notes, if you want to reach out. So I would love to hear from you and we are going to do quick, quick review. And I do this because I just want you to know that I'm actually reading your reviews. They mean a lot to me, and I can't believe how personal some of you get. 2 (1h 11m 24s): So I really appreciate that. It really makes my day when I read these. So if you do leave a review, which I really appreciate, if you have the second to do it, you can do it multiple times. If you would like, just know that I do read them and they do mean a lot. So this one is from Jess, from New York. And she said, thank you for changing my boyfriend's way of thinking. I was like, well, that is quite a title. So it's a little bit long, but I think it's worth a lesson for the last year. My boyfriend and I had so much turmoil in our lives. He was angry all the time. He had the victim mentality I could go on, but I'm sure you get it. He listened to your first podcast and has been hooked. Not only is he hooked, he has a different person. 2 (1h 12m 4s): The anger is gone. The victim mentality is gone. He's been working on himself so hard and is truly a different person. Words do not do justice on how much you have changed. Not only his life, but mine as well. I have my soulmate back. Thank you, Jessica. And I have goosebumps. I cannot take credit for his change. I am glad that he found my content inspiring and useful, and that you have your soulmate back. That just makes me so, so, so happy. But yeah, thank you. That is like the greatest compliment I could ever have. So yeah. Leave your review and maybe I'll read yours next time. So without further ado, next week,