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Feb. 20, 2023

#71 Sara Higdon - Gender Politics, Education, and Mental Health

Sara Higdon is a Libertarian transexual content creator and writer from Atlanta, Georgia. Sara is known for their content surrounding politics, the Trans Community, and culture. For today’s episode, Sara and Candice will take on the discussion of Gender and Sexuality, opening the floor on key issues surrounding the topic, ranging from mental health, education, and the political aspects.

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Liberalist Content creator and writer Sara Higdon takes on the evolution of gender discussion in the aspects of psychological, educational, and political landscape of society over the years.

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0 (0s): Part of what I do is I, I have been traveling a lot more and speaking to audiences and most of these audiences are very conservative audiences. And when I get in front of these audiences or I, you know, talk to people before and after these events, you realize you are not that much different. The, the what you get online is a very small portion and it's the loudest people that scream. And yes, they can, they can make you feel certain ways about things, but the vast majority of people just wanna learn and they're actually interested in your experience as well as one of the secrets that I do, I, I see messages, I'm able to, you know, kind of block out hateful messages, but good messages that come across. 0 (44s): They, I, I save screenshots of those and put 'em in a motivations folder in my phone to say, you know, when I'm failing down about this, or if I'm, if I'm lending people get into my head, I go into that motivations folder to remember why I'm doing this. 1 (59s): Hello everybody. You are listening to Chatting with Candace. I'm your host Candice Horbacz. Before we get into this episode, if you could take the time to hit that like, and subscribe wherever you are listening or watching. It helps me break the algorithm, helps me potentially chart. We are still a small show trying to grow and you can do your part of, of supporting the podcast just by hitting that like and subscribe button. And then you also get little notifications every time I drop a new episode, cuz sometimes we'll give you a bonus episode and you won't know if you're not subscribed. So please help me welcome Sara Higdon Sara Higdon is an army vet. She's also a contributor to Gays Against Groomers and she's been getting in the news for her Twitter account as a lot of us are. 1 (1m 45s): So we're gonna get into some pretty taboo topics about sex and gender. Please listen with an open mind. Remember to always be kind. Please help me welcome Sara Higdon. Sarah, thank you so much for joining the podcast this week. I'm really excited to have you. I feel like our paths kind of crossed because we both follow a lot of the same people and we've had a lot of conversations on Youtube with, with similar people. I saw you recently talked with Buck Angel and you had a live with him. I feel like we're entering the Matrix and a lot of people use that term all of the time. But I think when I first realized who you were and a lot of the attention you were getting, I saw you on like Newsmax or Fox and I was like, what has happened that, you know, someone like yourself is on these channels that I feel like maybe even five years ago that would've been unheard of. 1 (2m 42s): So what's this ride kind of been like for you? 0 (2m 46s): Yeah, it's been kind of crazy, especially the last few months because I've been making content since 2020. I started my Youtube channel in 2020 after I became friends with Ariel Scarcella. And we had, she kind of of inspired me I guess to kind of speak out more because I've been seeing what's going on in the Trans Community since about 2018. I, I saw kind of this wave coming of just, we were gonna be the next target. So I've tried to get ahead of it, but yet in the last few months, especially with New Twitter, it's really interesting because New Twitter kind of made everything just take off. And so the algorithms, I I feel like I was shadow banned for so long and now my, my account's finally getting seen by people. 0 (3m 28s): And so yeah, when my account was suspended from, or it wasn't suspended, it was locked out from Twitter for saying that gender dysphoria is a mental illness that caused a lot of buzz. And you know, I'm a freelance writer so I've been writing for human events and the post-millennial for a few months now, just again freelance. So whenever I find a story, and so when that came up I sent it over to I, I just texted Libby Emmons and said, Hey, this just happened to me, what can we do as well as other people that I'm working with in the mom space? And the mom movement reached out to Newsmax and yeah, they, they told them. 0 (4m 10s): And so it was just became this huge ordeal and I kind of vowed to not delete the tweet because it wasn't, it wasn't warranted and Twitter actually agreed, they ended up apologizing, sending me an apology letter, which is weird in and of itself. 1 (4m 26s): So was the apology sent out under the new ownership or prior? Yeah, 0 (4m 31s): It was under the new ownership. All of this happened probably, maybe it was less than a month ago that it was actually, it was the day after Christmas that my account was locked out the first time because I got it back then Wednesday night and then on Friday morning it was locked out again for another weird tweet. 1 (4m 46s): So what was the initial justification for locking you out when you made that claim? 0 (4m 50s): Hateful conduct. Hateful 1 (4m 52s): Conduct. 0 (4m 53s): So, so think about that. It was hateful conduct for saying that an illness that I have is an actual mental illness. I was talking about myself. It, it was so funny. 1 (5m 3s): It is, it's, it is ki it, you can't help but laugh because I feel like the reason that people don't wanna call it a mental illness is because mental illness has a stigma around it and people are trying to get rid of the stigma so that people can actively and with pride go get help that they, that they need therapy, medication, whatever their journey looks like. But when you make a claim that something, like even saying something like, I don't know, borderline personality disorder is a mental illness. If you're like, well that's hateful speech, isn't that kind of creating a stigma? Because then you're saying that that disorder itself is a slur of some sort or is wrong to say like you are the one that's actually saying that there's something wrong with it instead of saying it is a mental illness and that's okay, that means that you, it can now get covered under insurance. 1 (5m 57s): Maybe explain to me there's a lot of advantages correct for it being categorized as a mental illness for people that need help with therapy. 0 (6m 5s): Well that's actually, it's the opposite. And so Well, yes, and, and to kinda go back to your point about it being a mental illness, I think a lot of people, it's interesting because we went from wanting to destigmatize mental illnesses, but then the people that have gender dysphoria are so ashamed that they have this disorder that they're afraid to call it that. So thus in and of itself it's stigmatizing the disorder that they have or anybody else that has, or it's just stigmatizing mental illnesses as a whole. Like that's a bad thing. It's, it's not a bad thing. I think that's was part of my tweet as well. And so it was actually changed, they did recategorize gender dysphoria from a mental disorder to a sexual health disorder, which is actually the same thing that like being homosexual is in the, in the, in the literature as well. 0 (6m 57s): And the reason they did that was for coding reasons for health insurance. Now they said there was to destigmatize it as well, but a lot of it has to do with coding and hospitals. So insurance companies can now they code it since it's coded as a sexual health disorder, they can pay for stuff a lot easier because it, it's just the way that like the prescriptions and stuff work. Right. And so the other thing about it is, I can see why they did it in this regard too, is because a mental health professional is not the one that's actually executing the hormone prescriptions and stuff like that. They're just giving the diagnosis of gender dysphoria, which is the mental aspect of it, the treatment of it. 0 (7m 42s): It goes under like, you know, an endocrinologist or a specialist that specializes in how to regulate somebody's hormones once they're on it. And so it goes into whose area. So if it's listed as a mental illness, that specialist can't code it as a mental disorder. So by being a sexual health disorder they can actually code it and it can get paid for under health insurance. 1 (8m 3s): Now how is that changing with the push for just affirmative care? Because isn't the diagnosis process pretty paramount in order to differentiate between someone that has gender dysphoria? And maybe that someone, this is what I was reading with some of Abigail Schreyer work, is that some people that are potentially on the spectrum can just simply get an obsession over it. Yes. And then maybe if it's a prepubescent child that it could actually just be that they're gay and they haven't navigated that. So it doesn't, a lot of things can kind of look like gender dysphoria, but it would take kind of a professional and time to know the difference. 0 (8m 42s): Yeah. So that's the issue with affirmative only care is that's absolutely what happens. And I have actually spoken to a few people that are on the spectrum, which I spoke to Christina Buttons who works with the Daily Wire. She writes about this stuff all the time. She talked to me and the way that she described her Asperger's was it, it it, it reminded me so much of the way that gender dysphoria actually feels. And so yes, somebody that's kind of on the spectrum might go and they, they grab onto the, this idea that they are really born the wrong body. And she said the exact same thing about what she would do and it takes on a life of its own, it becomes who you are and, and you get very, you know, you will do anything to make that, make sure it happens. 0 (9m 28s): And then the other issue, especially with children is that they're telling parents usually in front of these children that you can either affirm and have a Trans child or you can have a dead child by way of suicide. Whoa. And so they're basically putting this idea in these kids' heads. And so again, if you're on the spectrum, you are going to obsess over this. And they're literally thinking, so now it's almost a, you know, they create this foregone conclusion to where it's like, wait a second, if I don't get this treatment I'm probably gonna kill myself. And so that obsesses in their mind as well. And so it's very, very pervasive to, you know, to actu it's, it's just awful to tell a child that and and to manipulate parents the same way. 1 (10m 15s): 100%. I think that that's reckless and people that are, that professionals that are behaving that way should have their license under review. I don't think that's acceptable care whatsoever. Yeah. Cause you're almost suggesting it, it's like you take someone who's in a vulnerable space and whether or not they actually have this thing is kind of irrelevant. You're presenting them with an option that maybe they didn't even consider before. And that's just horrifying to me. What I love that you are doing is you're, you don't seem to be afraid to ha to ask questions or hit starting certain top talking points that are considered taboo. I think transparency is the thing that leads to trust and I think that that's what leads to more tolerance and more acceptance. 1 (11m 1s): I think when you have certain groups that are just kind of telling us that the sky is red and we see that it's blue, it's like I can, we can't have a conversation go going forward because we can't even agree on the basis of reality. So putting yourself out there in this position of asking these hard questions and talking about hard topics, especially when it pertains to children for example, cuz for some reason a lot of the leftists are hyper-focused on, on controlling the kids, which is a little bit alarming to me. How do you deal with a lot of the criticism and, and just keep on going because I fe I would imagine, cause I find myself in a similar boat, it's when if you, you don't move in lockstep with everyone in like in your category. 1 (11m 49s): So for me it would, it could be, you know, people from the sex industry for example, if I don't move in lockstep and say, no, all of this is universally good, everyone should do it, which I obviously don't believe, then all of a sudden you're cast out of that group, but you're also not really welcomed with open arms into the rest of society because you did this horrible thing. You're already an outlier so you can kind of feel like you don't belong to any camp. And that can at times, at least for me, feel really isolating. So what keeps you motivated and, and going forward? 0 (12m 20s): So I, it's funny, I, I literally, I touch grass. I do because, and so that's part of what I do is I, I have been traveling a lot more and speaking to audiences and most of these audiences are very conservative audiences. And when I get in front of these audiences or I, you know, talk to people before and after these events, you realize you're not that much different. The, the what you get online is a very small portion and it's the loudest people that scream. And yes they can, they can make you feel certain ways about things, but the vast majority of people just wanna learn and they're actually interested in your experience as well as one of the secrets that I do, I, I see messages, I'm able to, you know, kind of block out hateful messages, but good messages that come across. 0 (13m 11s): They, I I save screenshots of those and put 'em in a motivations folder in my phone to say, you know, when I'm failing down about this or if I'm, if I'm lending people get into my head, I go into that motivations folder to remember why I'm doing this. And just last Thursday I was in Wisconsin just outside of Milwaukee doing an event. I got notification that there was a parent there with their child and after the event about midnight I got a text saying that they left a little bit early, but they came to see me and Chloe Cole speak and after they left the, the father texted my friend and said that his daughter basically that we, we may have saved his daughter. 0 (13m 56s): Wow. She said maybe this is right May they are right, I'm going to wait. And so stuff like that reminds me every day that this is important in what we're saying and speaking out, you know, it could save somebody's life. 1 (14m 11s): That's very powerful. That kind of transitions into a topic I did want to get into, which was, hey everyone, this is new. So we are taking a quick break for a couple of sponsors. How exciting is that, that we have a couple sponsors for the podcast. So this is new, please don't skip it, just listen, it's cool stuff I promise. So my first one is a small company called Rad Nas Rocks and I'll make sure I have the link below. As you know, I love crystals and I get made fun of for it all of the time, but I'm, I'm not gonna change my ways and I'm gonna stand by it. I truly believe in them and I think that they're beautiful, so sue me. But he sent me, I mean how incredible is that? 1 (14m 53s): He sent me this beautiful amethyst, I've got this really cute rose quartz skull. All this is on my table you can't see, but when I start doing two cameras, you'll be able to see my little setup and this cute little crystal Buddha, how adorable is he? These bracelets are from there. I mean I was really stoked to have him as a sponsor because this is right up my alley. So if you're into any crystals or you just wanna check out the website, it's Ragnar Rocks dot com and I'll link that below. And the last affiliate last sponsor, please don't skip, this one's a good one. So we all know the benefits of fasting. 1 (15m 34s): Well my husband and I have used this company Prolon actually a couple of times. So I was really excited that they wanted to be an affiliate of the podcast. So if you wanna try Prolon, it's a fasting mimicking diet. So you get all the benefits of a water fast and it's a lot easier cuz you get this delicious food instead of having to completely eat nothing. So you can try Prolon for $150 with the code. Candace, some of the claims for, and I mean I say claims, but I'm going off of a script guys, 60% of people that completed the fast had better energy, mental clarity and focus. You'll definitely shed some lbs. I felt a ton lighter after doing it. It's cool to do difficult stuff and obviously fasting is not easy so it's kind of cool to see how you can kind of push it and get through something that you thought you might not be able to do. 1 (16m 24s): It's a lot easier than just doing a water cleanse. And again, like you, I think the average here, yeah people lose an average of 5.7 pounds and 1.6 inches off of their waistline. So soon as I'm done breastfeeding, I'm doing one of these and Eric's supposed to be starting anytime now, so we'll see when he decides to start. So I'll link that below Again, if you wanna try Prolon, you can try it for 150 bucks. Use code Candace. And let's return to the episode. Why is the topic or the idea of Detransition taboo within the Trans Community? It's almost like as a whole, they don't wanna accept that that exists and that is a reality for some people and that it's a very, like for cases like Chloe, cuz I've been following her story, it it's intense. 1 (17m 14s): It's very, for a lack of better words, I would even say violent when she talks about her surgery and she was so young when it all happened, it's like, of course. So you would think, again, le transparency leading to trust. Like why is that a topic that is shunned within the community? Well 0 (17m 32s): You have to remember that woke as a whole is a cult. And when you go against the cult, the first thing that they want to do is attack. You think about all the other people that have left the left essentially, like when walkaway came out and all those same people when they left, they get more hate from the left than I do as somebody who grew up in conservative circles because they are the, the goal is to make others fear leaving for the same repercussions. And especially with, you know, the queer theory, which is based in Marxism, they also know lansky's rules for radicals and they use rule number 12, which is to isolate the target and, and make it personal and attack that single target in, in, in, in order to make others fear leaving because you will be this pariah in the community. 0 (18m 24s): So I mean that's basically the gist of it. But yeah, I wrote about the topic in human events a few months back because they are the people that we should be listening to. You know, activists will give stats to say that they, that detransition make up or, or the regret rate is like 3%. But that's a complete lie because there is no good study and there's actually really not even a good way to create a study to figure out what that rate actually is because it requires self-report. And so if a, if a Trans person, person that's on hormones has never had like a hysterectomy or a vaginal plasticy, they can literally just stop taking hormones and their body will start producing the correct sex hormones and so they never have to go to their doctor again. 0 (19m 15s): And if there's no follow up, then those people just get lost and they are assumed to still be Trans. Mm. And they didn't actually desist. The other thing is most of the studies start from like year zero to four years out after the person starts taking hormones when they do actually follow up with these people, they don't follow up out to 10 years, which the average desistance happens between four and 10 years. And so the studies are completely flawed and they're, so they use these flawed studies to say detransition are so rare that why are we even letting them, you know, dictate policy. These things are lifesaving to children, you know, and, and so it's, it's really odd and one of the things that, one of the reasons I think that it's being pushed onto children is there are a lot of Trans adults that say if I could have just transitioned as a child, I would be so much happier. 0 (20m 8s): Now the the studies that don't prove that to be true either. 1 (20m 13s): No, I was gonna ask about that. So that's one of the main proponents of it is that it, it makes it I guess easier to quote pass if you were to have started before puberty. The problem that I see with that, because if it was as simple as this person has gender dysphoria, like it's 100% accurately diagnosed and we are going to give them some kind of treatment to try to make it easier for them, that's a different conversation than what the data, at least the data that I've come across suggests, which is 90% of children that are showing signs of gender dysphoria end up settling within their biological sex by age 18 and 80% of them end up actually just being gay. 1 (20m 60s): So that leaves about 10% of those kids that are showing symptoms that are actually Trans or actually have gender dysphoria. And I know some people say Trans is a political title and you can't have a Trans child. I don't know what your opinion is on that because where I get into, cuz again, like I don't belong to any camp and I do believe, you know, Trans people exist. It's 100% the real thing. So if you take that 10% for them, that's true. So like for that 10% were they Trans the whole time? Like I'm just trying to understand, so I, you know what I mean, because to me yeah, to that 10% it's like well would that be helpful to them? 1 (21m 42s): Would even like a social transition be helpful to the ones that actually were, and then how do you tell the difference? 0 (21m 48s): Well I think we need to accept gender nonconformity as a whole. I think that's one area where the right gets it wrong because once we see somebody that's gender nonconforming, then they're also kind of cascaded out a little bit too, right? And so we kind of have to allow gender nonconformity to be accepted because you're right, what, what the, so Lisa Lipman did a study in 2018 and that's the study that you're referring to to where it was 80% of the people in the study that were, were flagged for the study ended up desisting by the age of 16 and then the 20% went on to possibly, you know, be, be Trans. The issue with that study, and I used to think that this study was flawed actually because it took anybody who is gender nonconforming, not just people who were diagnosed with gender dysphoria or anything like that. 0 (22m 38s): It took anybody who is gender nonconforming and, and put 'em in this study. The issue is that we're seeing now is they're telling anybody who's gender nonconforming that you're probably Trans and that becomes the issue. And then it's like, okay, now you gotta medicalize, you have to do all this and you have to figure it out. And so once you put somebody on puberty blockers, then they, it's it's, it's like 98% chance that they're gonna go on to then take cross-sex hormones. And now again, then you see what the detransition rates starting to raise. And, and that's the issue also what's happening, and this has happened recently in Scotland, they tried to have their gender recognition bill, which basically lowered the age that you could change all your documentation so you could change your documentation to, you know, say male say the opposite sex at 16 instead of 18. 0 (23m 31s): It also doesn't require a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, it also removes it from you, you know, basically socially transitioning living as the opposite sex for two years down to three months. So it's basically you can self ID into whatever category you want, which has all other, you know, has a whole bunch of other ramifications that could come with that. But I guess I'll go back to your original question too, to to say there is, I mean you mentioned Abigail Schreyer earlier, her book Irreversible Damage talks a lot about this cuz there is the social contagion factor. One of the reasons I started getting involved again was back in 2018 I saw this coming and I posted on a Reddit forum that said when that transgenders are real, so transgenders are basically those who are Trans because it's becoming trendy. 0 (24m 19s): I said they are real and when the detransition rate skyrockets it's going to be hurt actual Trans people because of the backlash. I was banned from Trans Reddit groups for saying that. Hmm. And so it becomes this whole thing and they don't wanna acknowledge what's going on. And then, and so it's interesting because when you have like the rapid onset gender dysphoria, that creates a whole different set of problems because almost every transexual that I know that ends up going on and it being the right cause for them, they had thoughts and remembering of the time, like when they were like four or five years old at the moment, they became self-aware, they knew that something was different and that's what they were doing. So it was, but when you have people saying, well I just figured this out or this, I just started feeling this way, you know, in puberty and stuff like that, that's when it kind of starts to, you know, blur the lines. 0 (25m 8s): And, and when I say that everybody at the age of four, you know, every transexual knew something was different at the age of four. I also use the, it's a square is a rectangle, but rectangle is not a square. So everybody that feels that way at the age of four is not necessarily Trans either. You know, and that's part of the issue that we're seeing now too is people are saying that, oh, babies in the womb know that they're Trans. It's like, no, that's not the case. 1 (25m 33s): I think I saw that there was something that was talking about Trans babies and I was like, they don't even, they're not even awake yet. They're still kind of in this weird theta asleep phase for like the first six weeks. What are you talking about? That's the most political headline I've ever seen. Yeah, 0 (25m 52s): Well we call that Trans housing by proxy because it's something, again, it's these woke or these progressive upper middle class white women that have been told for so long that simply by being who they are, they are oppressors. And so in order to finally get some oppression points, they can say, look at my Trans child, I'm such a good parent. Look at me like I am no longer an oppressor. I am, you know, I I'm such a good parent. And so that is, they're using their children for those woke points. 1 (26m 27s): So going back to the importance of accepting gender nonconformity and then gender dysphoria. Are there two, are there like any observable differences between the two? Because I agree I think gender nonconformity that like gender expression, that is a huge spectrum, right? Like not everyone Yeah. Is like the epitome of a feminine woman and not everyone is the epitome of a masculine man. A lot of us exist somewhere along that gradient and it, you know, even your mood can change, like what you wanna wear, the activities you wanna do that day. So like just completely discounting tomboys or feminine men, like that just seems really regressive to me. 1 (27m 11s): So it is, what's the difference between, let's say, you know, just a tomboy and someone who's actually experiencing gender dysphoria? 0 (27m 21s): So yeah, I mean that's, that's, that's a great example. Tomboys and feminine boys too, most of the time feminine boys just are, are are gay men that you know like pretty things and you know, why wouldn't you like pretty things kind of thing. Tomboys the same way. There is a huge difference between how you express yourself and like what you're drawn to, the types of things that you like to do. You know, you might be a girl you like cars and, and all this stuff, all these things that are based on stereotypes where in gender dysphoria, and this is actually why I don't like gender dysphoria being labeled as a delusion either because it's actually the opposite with gender dysphoria. When I actually look at myself in the mirror, I see everything about myself that makes me male and that I don't, and, and I'm uncomfortable with that tomboys don't experience that same thing. 0 (28m 10s): They just go to what's they're attracted to and they just do what they're, they do their thing. Whereas me, i it it has nothing to do with those stereotypes. It just looks, you know, it's the secondary sex characteristics that I have that make me feel uncomfortable, you know, expressing who I am in that regard. I mean in, in a lot of ways I'm kind of the same way. I mean in stereotypically I, I would be more of a tomboy in a lot of, a lot of situations, but then I like pretty things too. So it's, it it, it's just the thing, like you said, everybody's kind of on this spectrum, but gender dysphoria is very keen on, again, secondary sex characteristics and how you're perceived by the world. 1 (28m 46s): No, that's fair. It seems like it's more of an internal struggle versus just outward in interests to me. Just 0 (28m 53s): What you like. Yeah. 1 (28m 54s): Yeah. So the kids thing, I saw that you, you've been doing a lot of speaking engagements and traveling and as you mentioned earlier in the podcasts there were these moms groups that kind of helped push you onto platforms like newsmax. And I think that's where people get a lot, get very uncomfortable is with like this c r t and queer theory being introduced to children. So when it comes to all of this celebrating pride and this kind of movement that's been happening, I don't know, probably since the early aughts, I would say maybe even the nineties, where's the bounds of that? Because I do, I see both camps, right? I see when I was growing up I saw, you know, traditionally gay men that were getting picked on. 1 (29m 38s): I, I didn't know anyone Trans growing up. It just wasn't really a thing. And if they were, they weren't open about it. So I mean there were some kids that were openly gay and more often not than not, they were extremely bullied and we didn't have a ton of pride flags or engagement about that. And I wonder if we did, if that would've made it less acceptable to be cruel to this child. I also wonder as being one of the leading countries in the world, do we have an obligation to to say, you know, love is love and be an example to these countries that are very re backwards and oppressive to the gay community. Cuz I mean there are parts of the world where they quite literally throw you off of a building if you're gay. 1 (30m 23s): I think most of us can agree that's deplorable and shouldn't be accepted. So it's like, where's the line between saying people get to express themselves how they want people get to love who they want and teaching that to a young age. Cuz I think that that is important versus you are only celebrated if you are part of this beautiful rainbow flag and if you're straight, like there's not really a place for you at the table. 0 (30m 48s): Yeah, I think that again, I, I would always go back to parental rights, especially when it comes to like schools and stuff like that. I, I, I think in schools we have to look at what the goal is there. I think, you know, like what Florida did with the parental choice bill, I think that's a lot of, it's fine because whether a a teacher is gay themselves, that's one thing, but it's, it's a different thing when you're presenting, you know, queer theory as an ideology in, you know, classroom settings. I think that's kind of the big thing about even having like different political flags and the gay flag is a political flag at this point in classrooms and everything like that. 0 (31m 28s): I think it goes back and it falls back onto the parents and how they want to, you know, approach it with their child. Like I've always said, you know, you can have kids at Pride or you can have kink at Pride festivals, but you can't have both and those are the types of things that we need to look at. I don't see how like drag queen story hours are helpful to the community because drag queens have basically replaced clowns in that regard, I guess. And, and it's not really like the representation of the community and the love is love crowd that, that you really want. And so I don't, I don't get the push for that either. I think it is predatory because most drag shows are sexual. And so I just think again in schools it just needs to be about learning and then let parents understand. 0 (32m 14s): But you should also understand, I mean, bullying of any kind needs to be addressed. Like whether it's because a person's homosexual or anything like that, like, you know, they should be allowed to be who they are and again, accepted and it, yeah, it goes back to gender nonconformity. Like if people are different, like you don't bully them for being different and you punish the actions of bullying and not necessarily pushing the ideology. And like I said, I have no issues if you, if you have a straight parent or a straight teacher and they're talking about their spouse, which I think that's still even kind of, it can be an interesting topic. It's okay if, if you're okay with that, you should be okay with a gay teacher talking about it. But I'm really not okay with any of it. 0 (32m 55s): I just want kids to learn, you know, math and writing, which they're falling behind in anyways. 1 (32m 59s): No, that's true. I never knew which of my teachers were like the men. I had no idea who was married and who wasn't. Exactly. And then with women, the only way you knew was if they had like the R in their m r s versus MS and that was it. But they would never talk about their personal life cuz they were like, no, I'm, that'll almost like take away this, the mask of authority in a sense. Like it, they come in and they're this figure of attention and we're here to learn. And if you kind of present them with too much personal information, then it kind of takes that away. Like now you're kind of one of the peers, which is an interesting concept to me. Yeah. 0 (33m 37s): Which is always a dangerous thing. Like you get too close to children and that's one of the things that we're seeing now is especially the biggest thing that we fight against is the hiding of social transitions from parents or hiding this information from parents like that. Like if a teacher is keeping secrets with children, like that is three of five steps to grooming. Like you only have two more steps and that's actually just starting to talk about like sexual stuff, like actual sexual stuff with children. And so it's getting, it's borderline very close. 1 (34m 12s): So can you define what grooming is? Because I feel like that's one of those hot button words that was floating around and then being censored and then probably being over and misused now because it's catchy. So what what is grooming? 0 (34m 24s): Yeah, grooming is, you know, getting close to somebody and then kind of indoc, I mean, I guess with children it would be indoctrinating them and, and teaching them that it's okay to do certain things and then, you know, again, keeping secrets would be another form. And then the end goal of, you know, especially child grooming would be to develop a secret relationship with that child, you know, in, in different settings. And then usually it, it takes place through their adolescent years and then once they become, you know, an adult and it's legal for them to do sexual things, then it, then they, then they would, because they've kind of built this trust relationship and it's manipulative a lot of times because it's, if you don't do what I want then we will, I'll tell your parents and all this stuff. 0 (35m 15s): And so they can kind of blackmail children into doing more and more stuff that they want as well. 1 (35m 20s): So when it comes to self ID pronouns, having these conversations around Sexuality wi in the school setting, I think one of the arguments that was for it and and justifying not disclosing this to the parents was, well, you know, how many parents would be abusive if they found out. So what's, what's your opinion on that perspective? 0 (35m 48s): So first of all, I think that that is assuming that the majority of parents would be abusive, even though that seven, like 80 something percent of people are accepting of L G B T people two, if you believe that any child's parents would be abusive for any reasons, the the key is to like, you shouldn't just keep a secret for them. You should actually take other steps and possibly go to cps. Like that's a completely different story. Like you're knowingly keeping a child in a dangerous situation and I don't like cps. No, I think that they are widely used in a very wrong manner, but there, there are reasons why we have system like that. 0 (36m 31s): And it's supposed to be to protect children. So you're keeping them in that. And I always dive back into the reason why the parental choice bill in Florida was actually created, there was a still lawsuit going on in southern Florida where a school hid a child's social transition from their parents because their parents' Catholic faith. So again, their Catholic faith is what determined that they would not be accepting of their child. And so they didn't know, they didn't find out about their child's social transition until the child had attempted suicide twice in as many days at school. Wow. And so instead of getting that child the mental health that they needed in order to deal with what they were feeling, the school hid that. 0 (37m 15s): And so the school is responsible for that child, the harm that that child tried to do take to themselves because that is what the parent's responsibility is, is to get the actual mental health they need. If your child's having, you know, gender issues, take them to a mental health professional and work with them, make sure that what they are doing is the right thing. Hiding it only makes it worse and makes it even more, you know, it, it just makes, it just makes the whole situation worse and makes your anxiety worse. Cause I mean, think about if you're a child and your entire school knows you go by different pronouns and everything like that at school, your friends come over for, you know, to hang out, have a sleepover or whatever your anxiety, how, I mean your anxiety has gotta be through the roof hoping that when your friends doesn't slip up and tell your parents like, like doesn't slip, that's number one. 0 (38m 8s): Parents go to parent teacher conferences, your anxiety is through the roof because now your teacher could possibly slip up until your parents even if on accident. And so it doesn't make anxiety or discomfort better. It actually, I would say it probably makes it worse. 1 (38m 28s): Right. I didn't even actually think about that angle. But that's a, that's a really great point too. And then for, I would add on, it's what are your values? Like is integrity important to you? Is honesty important to you? And then bringing home the idea of just assuming that the parent is gonna handle it the wrong way is also I don't think that's in, I don't think that's doing justice to most parents, at least most parents that I've met, that they're, everyone wants their kid to be happy and healthy and feel loved. So yeah, I think it's very rare these days fortunately that it's not gonna be the case where a kid comes out with whatever they're going through and the parent just completely shuts them down. And then to assume that you as the school or the teacher care more about that child than the parent is very presumptuous in my opinion. 1 (39m 12s): Yeah, 0 (39m 13s): Absolutely. I mean I think most, like, like you said, we live, I mean it's 2023. I think most people are kind of like, okay, I mean if that's the case, then that's the case. You know, most parents are gonna love their kids no matter what. It's not, you know, 1980 right now where this is still just like such a taboo thing to be homosexual. 1 (39m 33s): So are you exhausted about talking about pronouns? Because I know I'm exhausted about talking about pronouns. 0 (39m 41s): I am entirely exhausted. I hate talking about pronouns because it's like, I I, it's not that big of a thing and everybody has their, has their opinions on it and how they're gonna go about it. And so we just, I i i I just don't let anything affect me and honestly, it's really, it's still weird to me when somebody asks me my pronouns, I'm like, well, what do you think? You know, 1 (40m 4s): I was gonna ask, so when you see like a biological female putting pronouns in her bio is that, I would be like, what? That's not for you. Like, that indicator's not for you. And I would say it's not for you either, right? Like I'm presenting myself in what I think is an obvious way. Yeah. I don't understand why the extra like asterisk there is necessary. 0 (40m 32s): Yeah, I mean what they're doing is they're taking, you know, they're, they're making these rules based on like two per, like one less than 1% of the population. And even ha so like Trans people make up like half, half a percent of the population. It might be more now just because it's all self id, but it's such a small portion of the comu of, of the population that it's like if you use pronouns that are different than the way that you present and it's on you to kind of tell everybody what you know, what you, what you, i, i, you know, what your pronouns are and like, and to try to make you feel comfortable. But at the same point in time, pronouns are generally used when you're not even there. So that's just a level of control that it's really interesting trying to control speech while you're not even there. 0 (41m 16s): And at the end of the day, like when you ask me what my pronouns are, I'm like, I didn't, I didn't do all this work. I didn't take these hormones, I didn't do all this work to present in a way that I do for you to then ask me my pronouns. And it was interesting because the left came after counterpoints, another YouTuber a couple years ago when she made this case to where the pronoun circles are really weird. Like when you like sit in the circle and everybody asks, like gives their pronouns simply because you're there, it actually adds to like a transsexuals actual gender dysphoria because it's like, you're only doing this because you've clocked me and now we're going through this whole rigamarole because you know, I'm here and so thanks, you're actually hurting my, my dysphoria. 1 (42m 0s): Oh, that's interesting. So it brings more attention to it, 0 (42m 3s): It brings more attention to you as a Trans person. Absolutely. 1 (42m 6s): Yeah. That's what I, that's kind of the way that I saw it. It's, I pr surprisingly don't like a ton of attention, especially if I don't know everybody when we had to do those exercises. So back when I was in school, all you had to do was like, stand up and say your name. That was it. Like, hi, I'm Candace, nice to meet everyone. Yeah. And I would get a pit in my stomach like I thought I was gonna die. Like that's how awful that fear was. I was 0 (42m 31s): The same way. 1 (42m 32s): So like, I can't imagine if I was gender nonconforming or if I was Trans. And then also having to be like, well my pronouns are this. I would be like, well, did I not do a good enough job as trying to present to you how I want to be addressed? And then that can kind of create its own rumination. Do you feel, 0 (42m 52s): Yeah, I mean like I said, you feel like you get clocked a little 1 (42m 54s): Bit. Yeah. And that, that makes total sense to me. So when you do these conservative channels, do you have anyone that's ever like overtly disrespectful? Because that's a huge talking point with the Right. So again, like I don't belong in any camp. I agree with some ideologies on the right or thoughts I should say. And I agree with some thoughts on the left. I agree with a lot in the middle. At the end of the day, I tend to be like a freedom maximalist. So I believe like yeah, as long as you are not hurting yourself or someone else do what you wanna do. Yeah. But one of the main talking points on the right is this obsession of pronouns just like it is on the left. They just obsess in different ways over it. 1 (43m 35s): And I don't think you should force speech on anyone, period. But I also believe in treating people kindly. And I can't think of a good example as like one of the popular talking heads, but, oh, here's one Megan Murphy for example, I not a big fan of this woman. And she will purposely use the pronoun that you don't want her to use because she's trying to drive a point home. And to me I'm like, you can disagree on, you know, I guess gender dysphoria, I don't know how because people with that exist. So somehow that's like a trigger for her, but she will not use your pronoun. 1 (44m 16s): And to me, like that's just your, your parents did a bad job, you're not treating people kindly. So you could disagree with someone who's like, I am a woman. Like there's no Trans. It's like I am just a woman. Biological sex is a culture, a social construct. I could disagree with that, but I'm not, I'm gonna show up as me and I'm a kind person and I'm not gonna be cruel just because we disagree on biological sexual reality. So I'm just curious if you've come across that or if people tend to to be pretty kind and upright 0 (44m 51s): So well in person. I never have any issues ever in person traveling around doing that now doing podcasts and stuff like that. So actually it's interesting, especially when you look at the pronoun stuff. So Colin Wright last week did an an amazing, he like did a symposium on his, on the Realities last stand where he took, he had I think eight people from all over the spectrum even had a radical leftist on there to give their ideas of pronoun use. And it was very, it was vastly different. So I would definitely go check that out because it was, it's titled the Pronoun Throwdown. And you did, you had a whole issue, you had, you had the radical feminist who said absolutely don't ever use them, you know, preferred pronouns. 0 (45m 35s): And then you had the leftist who said, always use them, it's not kind to not use them and all this stuff. And then they had a whole bunch of nuance in between. I've only ever had it happen one time on stream. And it happened on Megan Fox's channel a couple weeks ago. I had a debate with a turf and she was one that just wanted to be cruel and everything like that. And that is what's interesting is conservatives in general will be very, are actually the most kind to me, unless you get over to the very far, like Q Andon types. Conservatives in general are the most accepting and usually are the most welcoming to me. 0 (46m 15s): When you talk about like Meghan Murphy and other radical feminists, they tend to attack me a lot for a multitude of reasons. And, and that is kind of how they attack. It's because yet remember they are still, they come from the left, they come from, they're actually still third wave feminist who we've all, who we've seen through the years as being kind of the crazy rat, you know, the crazy radical feminist. And the only thing that makes them different from the fourth wave feminist or the only thing that makes them different is that they won't go along with fourth wave feminism, which at which goes to gender identity instead of sex. And so they're still in that mindset that, you know, a lot of times man hating feminist. 0 (46m 55s): And so they don't like me because they would consider me a man and they would be cruel just in in that regard as well. This is what I get all the time. And you, you probably get some of this too from, from your work. It's like people would say they, they try to tell me that I can't work to protect children because I can't fight against an ideology because simply by existing as who I am, that I'm pro I'm promoting the ideology just by existing. Yeah. And so that's where a lot of those people are is where a lot of conservatives, they go, well I'd rather just, I'd rather have you in this fight because you've been through this and you're actually warning people. 0 (47m 35s): So your voice is uniquely needed. 1 (47m 38s): Yeah. It's, it's really unfair. I mean, you nailed it on the head. It's simply by existing that you're advocating for some kind of lifestyle and it's like, absolutely not. And yeah, just because I, I call myself kind of like a cowboy. Like I just, like, I live on the outskirts of society and that's where I'm comfortable, you know, that's where I thrive. And that's true for me. That's not true for most people and I don't think that there's anything wrong with either of those things. I think it's also assuming that people like you and I don't know what's appropriate around children. And that's pretty crazy to me because it wasn't that long ago that if you were a gay man, you couldn't be a teacher because they automatically assumed you were going to be a predator. 1 (48m 20s): And that was so heinous. That's so heinous. Yeah. To make that assumption. And I think that that idea hasn't really gone away. It's just evolved. So now it's not necessarily, you know, you can't be a gay man around children now it's, you can't have an only fans and be around children now. You can't be a Trans person and be around children and to kind of automatically connect those dots, I think is perverse in and of itself. And I think that, you know, a lot of us want the right thing. A lot of us wanna protect the youth and a lot of us have a very unique vantage point. So I think that we are absolutely able to speak on certain topics. I mean, I have two children Yeah. 1 (49m 1s): And I'm just waiting for the day where, you know, I kind of am forced out of my closet, my proverbial closet. And I know it's gonna be awful. And I know it's gonna be a lot of heartbreak for me because of the decisions I've made. And I don't, do you have children or 0 (49m 18s): I don't, no. 1 (49m 19s): Well you don't. Well, if you ever do it, it's probably gonna be similar as well. Right. It's, you're gonna have to deal with some hateful people and knowing that you are kind of the center of that attention is heartbreaking. Yeah. But at the end of the day, 0 (49m 33s): I think I s 1 (49m 34s): No, go ahead. 0 (49m 35s): I was gonna say, I, I saw I, and I think I saw your post the other day or a little while ago and it was perfect. It's like, don't teach your kids. Why don't you, why don't you look at the bully instead of, instead of who they're attacking and why they're attacking that person for 1 (49m 48s): Exactly. It's like we're, we're misguided. We're focused on the one thing that maybe we don't ideologically agree with instead of behavior that's just really not acceptable for anybody. It's not acceptable to tear anybody down, even if you disagree with them. Like I, if you're an adult, you should be able to manage your emotions and, you know, debate things in the arena of, of opposing opinions, but not to, you know, take someone's character down or try to hurt feelings. Like I just, I wholeheartedly Yeah. Disagree with 0 (50m 17s): That. And unfortunately that's where we are as a society. And this is something that social media has kind of promoted is one, you don't see the person on the other side of that screen, you know, as an actual human being. You're just seeing words on a screen. And then the other thing is, we've kind of lost some of our humanity in regards to it. It, it, it, and so yeah, it's, it's become kind of a danger to society and being so open and you're so readily available to attack anybody that's out there speaking something that you don't agree with. And then Twitter in and of itself, you only get, you know, so many characters to say what you want. And so it's really hard to put nuance into what you say and, and these days nobody wants to hear the nuance. 0 (51m 1s): They just see like your main point or they read into your comments or what you do, you know, instead of actually listening to you. And like I said, I mean, we can have conversations about this stuff all day. We have differences, but in today's society you can't have differences without being attacked for those differences. 1 (51m 18s): 100%. You had mentioned the word turf earlier, so for anyone that doesn't know, that's Trans exclusionary radical feminist. So that is one of those other words that gets thrown around all of the time. Lucy goosey as a pejorative. So when it comes to that, because I think that there are women like Megan Murphy who I would put in there. Right. Like just like, in my opinion, a disrespectful 0 (51m 45s): Well, and they're claiming it now. 1 (51m 46s): Oh, they are, they're claiming it. Okay. Yeah. 0 (51m 49s): So like that's what, when I used it towards the person that I used it towards, she labeled herself in the interview as a turf. 1 (51m 56s): Oh. So, okay. That's really interesting. So what is the difference between someone like that, that self identifies as a turf and then someone who, and you can correct me if you disagree or you have a different perspective, someone like JK Rowling who ad who advocates for female-only spaces in particular when it comes to like prisons or like crisis, like rape crisis centers, are those like the, are those categorized the same, like as someone who's, who's not using your pronouns no matter what because they're purposely excluding you versus someone who's saying, Hey, there does need to be a space for biological women only. 1 (52m 36s): Are those both considered to be a turf? 0 (52m 38s): Well, according to the left, they would both be considered turfs. I would not consider JK rolling a turf. It used to be that turf was a slur. And so it's kind of inter, I I don't like using the term that much anyways, except for if they can, if they call themselves that. But the thing about JK rowing is JK rowing ha she's not hateful towards Trans people and never has been. In fact she's been very vocal about, you know, supporting Trans people. I was actually just writing something about her today because she is been very vocal about, you know, Trans people need protection as well in certain situations. We can have a conversation and we can have the nuanced talks about even female spaces and stuff like that. Where, when it comes to like the very radical feminist, you can't even have that conversation. 0 (53m 25s): It is black and white, like no male ever in female spaces. Whether, whether they've had surgery, whether they've had this, whether they've had that like no conversation. They just want it their way and, and we can't talk about it. And I think that's one of the issues that I, I get caught up talking about a lot too, is because it's a very nuanced topic and we can come up with solutions that work for everybody. But yeah, radical feminists don't want to talk about the actual solutions. They wanna, you know, use basically, again, man hating like you're a man, you don't belong anywhere near women's spaces and if you do, you're a predator. That's basically what they say. 1 (54m 2s): Okay. No, that's a, that's a good compare and contrast because you can't deny that there is a vulnerability of being Trans and then being forced into a male only space. That threat exists too, and for some reason people don't wanna acknowledge that. It's like, I get very weary when people aren't open to an open dialogue because I'm like, there is a lot in the middle. Like it's, it's not as simple as, you can't come in here. So someone, it was one of the, I think she idd as like a first wave feminist. It was on the Femme Explainers podcast a couple years back and she had said basically someone needs to kind of create a safe space for Trans women. 1 (54m 46s): So they, these pieces didn't exist for women, you know, a lot of feminists had to create them and f and f go through the fire of creating crisis centers and demanding their own equality and rights. And the way that she worded it I thought was really beautifully. And she's like, I can't do it for you, but I can help you. Like I can show you how I did it. And someone needs to kind of be that, the person that forges through all of that and, and, and is the trailblazer and creates these spaces. So instead of, you know, you have to self ID and you can come into a women's space, it's like, no, why isn't there a Trans space? 1 (55m 27s): Like you Trans women deserve that protection as well, especially if, you know they've been victimized in any way. So why is, why instead of just trying to impose on something that already exists, not try to create like a third alternative. I think that's all the solution. 0 (55m 42s): So my, this is, this is where I, I always talk about my solution to this is at the end. So when it comes to government spaces, so public spaces, yes, absolutely. We can definitely work to fight for third spaces and I have no issues. We can do that. I think that that should be available in any, you know, government run public space. I have more of a free market capitalist idea. I think that business owners have a right to make the decisions on their property. So they have private property rights where they can make the decisions If they wanna create a third space, I'm, no, I'm absolutely fine using the third space, but I use the space where I'm allowed, you know, I go off of the, the private business owners and what their rules are within their establishment. 0 (56m 27s): And if I don't like the rules within their establishment, I can vote with my dollar and go elsewhere. And I think that's the same with the other way around. Like if you don't like Target, you can go else. If you don't like Target's rules about Trans people in women's bathrooms, you can go elsewhere. Like that's the only way money talks in that, in that regard. I don't want government forcing any, any, you know, I don't want government force either way. I think that if a women's crisis center wants to exclude Trans people, that's absolutely fine. That's the right, I think if they want to have separate areas within that space, that's another option that they can do. I also think that we could also look at stuff like how, because, because what people don't wanna talk about is enforcement. 0 (57m 8s): And if I even mentioned the word enforcement, they wanna say that I'm trying to force my way in, or I'm saying, how are you going to enforce this? They don't wanna talk about it. And, and one of the ways that you could enforce that is what is the legal id? What does your legal identification say? Like in the state of Georgia, in order to change your identification you have to have surgery. So you have to have bottom surgery in order to even get the F on your driver's license period. So that's one option. Or you can say, you know, with a gender diagnosis dysphoria, a gender dysphoria diagnosis and living as the opposite sex for a certain period of time, you can get it changed. And then that shows that you aren't just self ID to say I'm in this space. And those are different options we can do. 0 (57m 50s): But like when it comes to how it's enforced, that also falls onto a business owner because say a Trans person owns a business and they want to just let it be a free for all that's on them. I mean, the government shouldn't come in and step in and say, you have to run your business this certain way or you have to incur this cost to create a third space. Cause that's the other thing that people aren't looking at. It would cost money for them to create that third space. And then what ends up happening is all spaces become unisex spaces when government tries to force it into that, into that regard. So these are different areas where we can come to the table and actually have conversations about it. Like there's no one set way to do it. But again, a lot of people don't even wanna have that conversation. 0 (58m 33s): You know, the, the, the progressives want to be a full self ID system and the the red femes and some on the right want to be, you know, just your biological sex. And so there's, but even if you have biological sex, then you have people like Buck Angel who look completely male going into the women's spaces and then how do you keep them out? And a lot of people would say, well they, everybody just goes to the men's space too. And which is kind of, in my opinion, a sexist idea. And as of itself, 1 (59m 1s): Yeah, if you saw buck in a women's bathroom, you would be like, what are you doing here? You're in the wrong place. Exactly. That's nuts to me. And actually when you're talking about the Georgia needing bottom surgery before they switch your id, I thought a buck as well. Like he popped into my head because he's very open. Yeah, he's not had that. My question would be if you do have someone who switches that, let's say you have someone like Buck and they, let's say Buck did have bottom surgery, and God forbid, I'm just using this as an example because I think Buck is one of the best like passing males I've ever seen. Like Yeah. And I mean that is such a Yeah, I mean that's such a compliment. 1 (59m 41s): I'm a huge fan of him. If something were to happen and his ID said male, I would wonder like if there needed to be medical intervention, if that would actually do more harm because they wouldn't know necessarily if there was something that they needed to look for. Cuz he's open about when yeah, he was taking certain hormones that he almost died because of complications with his sex organs. So it's like if you don't have the full picture, I feel like you can't do your job as a physician. And that's not to say not to call you the pronouns. I think that those things are two different Yeah. Things. But I think if you have like a legal document, it's important to know the biological sex just from a medical standpoint. 1 (1h 0m 21s): Yeah, 0 (1h 0m 21s): Yeah. Which is actually what's interesting because a lot of hospitals and doctor's offices are giving you the option on your forms to put whatever you want, which I've spoke out about that and how that is dangerous because your doctor should know what your sex is. But it it, it is interesting cuz you're absolutely, you're right. And I hadn't really thought too much about that too. I mean there might have to be something where we put it on IDs that you are Trans 1 (1h 0m 47s): Where it says, yeah and like the sex is just either M or F, right? Like that's not gender, that's not how you self ID or how you Id like through diagnosis, whatever. It's just like literally what is the anatomy in case we need to get in there and I don't, yeah, I think everyone 0 (1h 1m 3s): Should, which even your passport, you can self ID on your passport right now actually you can put an X on your passport in that section for non-binary. 1 (1h 1m 11s): Oh, okay. See it's just, yeah, that, that's, that's really interesting. 0 (1h 1m 16s): But if you're traveling abroad, that is one of the, that is one of the issues there too. If you're traveling abroad, you could put yourself into danger if you have, again, if you're in one of these areas, you could put yourself into danger. If your ID says male and you present as female, that could cause a whole other sorts of issues. 1 (1h 1m 33s): Well I would say not to travel to those places because I mean, I have a, a hard rule. My husband wanted to go, he wanted to go somewhere to one of these Arab countries, I think it, it might have even been Dubai. And he was trying to plan it. I was like, I'm, you can go by yourself, I won't go. And he's like, what do you mean? And I was like, I will not go to a country where women are second rate citizens. I can't support that. I won't feel safe there and how dare I freely go there and have different rules than them. Like that's not okay. Yeah. And he's like, I never thought of it that way. I was like, cuz you're not a woman. So we took that off of, I mean if again, if he wants to go, he's more than welcome to. But I was like, I'm, I would never do that. 1 (1h 2m 14s): So I would say the same for someone who's Trans or someone who's gay. It's why would you support that? Yeah. You know that theology by going someplace like that or putting yourself in danger, unnecessary danger. Yeah. 0 (1h 2m 26s): I think the one area where that might actually come into play though would be if you travel to Israel and if you had to travel to, you know, the West Bank or any of those other area, if you had to travel through to get to another area, it could come into play. But you're absolutely right. I wouldn't put myself in those situations. I mean, I've seen enough of that, those countries to, to know that I, I don't need to go there and visit cuz I served in Afghanistan. So, 1 (1h 2m 49s): So did you serve, like after you tra like, I don't know your transition story, I don't know if that's something that you're open about or if you wanted to get into, but did you serve while, like after you transitioned? 0 (1h 3m 2s): No, and so my, my kind of path to this, so I, I graduated college in 2009. I joined the Army in 2010. I was a logistics officer in the army. You know, I was actually doing just typical, typical male things. I actually got married. So me and my ex-wife, we had a pretty good life. She was the first person I came out to in 2014 because just who I was was like keeping the secret. My whole life was just eating me alive. And so I had to tell somebody that she was the only person I, I truly trusted. And, and so I told her and we stayed together for about a year and a half later before we separated. 0 (1h 3m 46s): At the end of 2015, I moved to Fort Bragg. That's kind of when I started to really explore my gender and who I was. And so I got out of the army in 2017, moved to Atlanta, continued to kind of make sure that, you know, what was this feeling that I was, I felt my whole life, but now I'm actually able to figure it out and, and see what, how far this goes and, and how far I wanna go with it. And so I kind of determined, I came out to the rest of my family at the end of the summer of 2018. I was still kind of figuring things out, but by, I ended up starting hormones in March of 2019. 0 (1h 4m 27s): So no, I didn't serve well and I, I honestly, I don't think I could have, I, I could have, but it would've been just a, a very difficult thing to, you know, come out to everybody and everything like that. It was hard enough just getting out of the military and disappointing, feel like you're disappointing people by getting out. So it, because it becomes like a second family. So it's like coming out to your family. And so coming out to my family before I came out to my actual family would've been a little bit interesting to, 1 (1h 4m 56s): So when you see those commercials for trying to encourage people to sign up to serve, and a lot of them now actually do incorporate some kind of like, whether it's sexual I identity or like what you're attracted to. Like they, they do tend to have more of that painted within the campaign. Do you think that that would've made you more comfortable to come out while you were serving? Or do you think that it's not how it works? 0 (1h 5m 24s): No, I don't think so. Like, well, because th this is the thing. So when was it? I mean, I, I was in, at the end of Donuts hotel, they, it was the Obama administration had just dropped the Trans, like the, the ban of Trans people. So we were doing training and everything like that. My last two years that I was in the army, we were, we were doing training to, to accept Trans people into the military. And so I I, I don't think so. I I think that, and I, I don't actually like the way that they're doing that because it's, it's trying to make the military shouldn't be about like this stuff. 0 (1h 6m 6s): It should just be literally that you're there to do your job. And so they're trying to make it about everything other than what your job is. Right? And so your job is to go and fight war or is to fight wars. And it's interesting because now that I'm out, I'm actually gonna be in DC next month where the Libertarian party is having an anti-war rally and I'm going to the anti-war rally. I did, I've done vi a video already for them about this because I'm personally, I'm a monarchist in my political beliefs, which is part of the Libertarian and all. I believe that the government's role is to provide a standing military to protect our borders. I don't think we should be fighting overseas, but I, I really don't think that wokeness and has a place in the, in the military. 0 (1h 6m 52s): I did a video right after we left Afghanistan about why I think general Millie should be fired because he's more worried about like white rage and all these woke things than actually doing our jobs. And you know, it costs five lives in Afghanistan when we pulled out of Afghanistan. And so they're not even focusing on the right things. They're, they should be focusing on protecting our country, not, you know, queer theory and, and C R t and, and cultural Marxism. 1 (1h 7m 19s): So this is a question like purely out of ignorance. So when you are transitioning, is there ever a a point where you don't have to take hormones? Like is there a, is there a point where like you don't, you don't have to take them and you can continue to live in whatever gender you want? Or do you have to maintain that? I I just, I'm not 0 (1h 7m 41s): Sure how it works. No, no. You, you, you have to take hormones for the rest of your life, especially since, and to be fully transparent, I've had bottom surgery. So my body does not produce, will never produce testosterone again. So even if I decided to detransition, I would still have to go onto a testosterone. I would still have to take testosterone if I was detransition because if I stop taking estrogen right now, my body will only produce the small amount of testosterone that comes from like the adrenal glands. So that's what's interesting is my body's still everybody's body and it's the same as a biological female. The, the testosterone is produced in the adrenal gland. 0 (1h 8m 21s): So I mean, my levels are still about what they were pre-surgery, but that's the only amount of hormones I will ever have. And so if you stop taking hormones, you will go through osteoporosis. Same with a female that's had a hysterectomy. If if, if you've had a hysterectomy, you will have to take hormones for the rest of your life. Now if you decide to stop hormones, now a female to male could theoretically stop hormones, but they will get their period back and go through all that if they haven't had a hysterectomy, which a lot of Trans people are having issues with the, with the testosterone, like medical issues with testosterone. So they do have to come off of it. And so that can be very dysphoric for them while they're g while their body starts to revert back to the way it was, even though that's not where they would be more comfortable. 0 (1h 9m 9s): But they have to because their body's kind of rejecting the, the testosterone. 1 (1h 9m 14s): Yeah, that's, that's kind of where my mind first went because I mean, I don't think it matters who, like how you identify and who you're attracted to. I don't think that matters if you wanna, you know, protect your country or you know, serve your country, like absolutely go do it. Like I love, love the patriotism, but my question, or I guess concern would be like if you had, I don't, do they take you if you're diabetic? Like can you serve if you're diabetic? 0 (1h 9m 41s): So that's you. Okay. So you, you can s this is, this is what most people don't realize with, with these questions is in the military, if you, you, you can't join if you're diabetic. So if you're, if you're, what is it? Type one diabetic where you, where you're, you know, as a child you were diagnosed and everything like that and you have to take insulin, you cannot serve. But if you're diagnosed with, with diabetes while you're serving, so say you've been serving for three, four years, whatever period, and then the doctor diagnoses you with diabetes, you can actually still serve, which is actually what people don't know is you can serve, you can be HIV positive and serve if you tested positive while you are on active duty. 0 (1h 10m 28s): The only difference there is you cannot deploy. 1 (1h 10m 31s): Okay? 0 (1h 10m 31s): So you can, you can actually, if you, if you've contracted h i v while you are on active duty, you're nondeployable. So they'll put you like maybe in the Pentagon or at just the state side jobs and you'll continue to do that for the rest of your career, but you can't deploy and there's some controversy there as well because if you can't deploy then you really can't do your job that you are meant to do. So you're taking a spot away from somebody that would be deployable. And so there is a little bit of that, but most people don't, I don't think most people realize that you can serve and and still have H I v Yeah. Or 1 (1h 11m 3s): Anything. Yeah. Because I just, I just worry about protecting that individual. So it's like if you for some reason lose access to important medication, so if you lose access to, to your insulin, and I'm assuming if you're HIV positive, you need to be on medication to, to sustain your life. And then if you were Trans, I would imagine that you would need to stay on those hormones so that you, you feel okay, like, I mean I I'm 0 (1h 11m 29s): Not even feeling okay. I mean think about, think about what happens if you, if you lose access to those hormones and then you start again, you get, you start getting osteoporosis. Yeah. And you then you're then you're required to carry 70 to a hundred pounds on your back and your bones are starting to be brittle. 1 (1h 11m 45s): Yeah. Just seems dangerous to me for the individual, not just from, not from like a horrible place. Like you can't serve like, just like the logistics of it. So that's why I was wondering if you had to be on the hormones indefinitely. Yeah, I mean so many places. So the bathroom thing I wanted to touch on because I think that's one of the things that the radical feminists don't budge on. And to me I think it's, it's a silly, it's one of those things that's a silly conversation. So we own a couple of restaurants and we've never at any point checked who's like, you know, make sure it's only men or women going in whatever bathroom. I think the idea of those laws or rules and regulations, it's almost like a false sense of security because it's not like someone who's about to commit a rape is like, actually I can't do it because that sign says has the little icon with the dress on it. 1 (1h 12m 34s): Like there, they're already a violent person who has total disregard for autonomy and human life and rules and regulations. It's not like that bathroom side is stopping anything. Yeah. So I, I don't understand the big fuss with that. It's like whoever your risk is there inherently and it's like no, your backdrop, no your surroundings when you're in a public space, I'm not gonna let my kid go to the bathroom by himself for a very long time. It does. That has nothing to do with who goes who IDs as what. It's just like there are bad people. Period. 0 (1h 13m 2s): I've made that same point, I've made the same exact point. I'm like, criminals don't by nature don't follow signs. I always talk about, you know, second amendment gun free zones. I'm like gun free zones don't work because criminals don't follow the signs and all it does is make for people more unsafe. Which is why I would teach women to carry as well as I would advise every woman learns Brazilian jiu-jitsu or some sort of self-defense. 1 (1h 13m 32s): No, 100%. I did this cool training with my husband about a year and a half ago and it's this guy and he trains Navy Seals and he's just like this real badass dude and he does this like private couples training where he integrates couples therapy but with ammunition, infighting and it's so freaking cool. It's like one of the coolest things I've ever done with my husband. But that was what he said, he is like, those gun free signs are an absolute joke because the people ignoring them are the bad guys. So, you know, he's like, just just know that and then make your decision accordingly. And then he said the same thing for women. It's, you're are gonna be overpowered and you need to, you need to know how to protect yourself. 1 (1h 14m 15s): So you just find the modality that kind of works for you. And yeah, just the education that came along with that course was really eye-opening to me and I was like, man, yeah, there's, yeah, there's a lot. I don't know, 0 (1h 14m 27s): I think, yeah, I was gonna say personally, Brazilian truth to me is probably one of the most useful and it's actually what the army teaches in their combative levels as well. It's like the first levels are jiujitsu because you don't have to be a super strong person. I've actually, when I was in the army, I rolled with somebody who was 6 5, 200, 300 pounds or something like that and I got his back and because I have a wrestling and you know, jujitsu background and it's mostly based on leverage and joint manipulation. And so women can learn very well how to protect themselves just by, you know, again, just small movements that you can manipulate joints and break arms with minimal force. 1 (1h 15m 13s): Yeah. Our, our little one is supposed to be starting jujitsu hopefully this week we're doing privates cuz he's only like three. But I'm really excited for that, so 0 (1h 15m 22s): That's good. I started wrestling when I was five, so. 1 (1h 15m 25s): Oh, did you? Yeah. It's crazy how early, like these kids are picking up stuff. I see it all over TikTok where there's snowboarding and I'm like, wow, we like you. They can really learn so fast with like little sponges. Yeah. So I'm really excited for that. So take that bullies, you know what I mean? He's starting early, like go ahead and exactly do whatever you're gonna do, but he's gonna be, he's gonna be equipped. 0 (1h 15m 46s): I love it. That's, I mean, that's the way that I, I think everybody should be, like I said, I mean most people don't realize I'm only five four, like 125 pounds. And so it's like I'm not a very big person, but I do know how to defend myself. And I, I learned from a very young age to be able to do that. 1 (1h 16m 5s): Yeah. And that's, I think it's so important. I think everyone needs to be able to do that. You just never know, you know what I mean? Especially if you're in a vulnerable pos position. But this was amazing. I think you are an incredible person and I'm very grateful that you took the time to come on the podcast. I love that you are brazen and bold and you are out there, you know, doing your thing and speaking out against the mob. I think that's really important. So do you want to tell a listeners anything that you're working on, maybe events that are coming up and how they can follow and support you? 0 (1h 16m 39s): Yes. But first of all, thank you again for having me on. This was awesome and, and I've, I've been a fan of your podcast and everything like that and so I I I knew who you were when you reached out. It was very, I was like, oh my gosh, I, this is great. And so I was like, I was super excited. But yeah, so just to kind of follow me, you can go on my website, it's just Sara Higdon dot com. There's links to all my social medias, but I have a Youtube channel. It's just Sara Higdon, so it's Youtube dot com slash Sara Higdon. And then Instagram and Twitter Twitter is both Sara Higdon with an underscore after it. And I have, there's quite a few events coming up actually. So like I said, I'll be in DC next month on the 19th for the, the anti-war rally. 0 (1h 17m 22s): I'm just possibly just going to that. But then in March I will be probably speaking at the Libertarian party of Tennessee's convention. And then me and Chloe Cole will be speaking at an event in Westchester, Pennsylvania at the end of the month and then starting to work, even look at April for more events coming up there. And, and so if you just, yeah, just follow me on social media, you'll see everything that we're doing and, and hoping, hoping again just to kind of travel around more and spread the message. 1 (1h 17m 54s): Awesome, awesome. I'll make sure I link all of that below for all of the listeners. And thank you so much again. 0 (1h 18m 1s): Thank 1 (1h 18m 1s): You. And that's it for this week's episode of Chatting with Candace. Before you go, don't close that. Give me two seconds of your time. If you could leave a five star review, especially if you're listening on Apple, that would help me out a ton. Make sure that you hit like, subscribe, share this if you really found the content super engaging. And if you wanna support the podcast, you can go to Chatting with Candice dot com and from there you can sign up for Patreon or you can click that link that says, buy me at coffee. It's cold out. I could use a cup of Joe. All of those funds go directly back into the show and I can start getting some more in-person guests. We have a couple really interesting ones for this month and next month, so all of it goes back in. 1 (1h 18m 42s): Thank you so much for the love and support and I'll see you next time. Bye everybody.