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March 9, 2023

#75 Vylana Marcus - Femininity, Sex, and Intimacy

 Chatting with Candice
 Episode Run Time: 1:21:41

Vylana is a musician, singer, dancer, medicine woman, and Fit For Service fellowship coach. In this episode, we talk about our own definition of femininity, sex, intimacy, and the power of the divine feminine.

00:00:00 00:01:08 What Is It to Be a Woman? 
 00:06:26 Authentic Expression of Femininity
 00:11:36 Intelligence and Femininity
 00:14:19 Madonna-Whore Complex
 00:20:52 The Power of the Divine Feminine
 00:26:00 Preventing Negative Attachments to “Promiscuity”
 00:34:00 Weaponizing Sex
 00:38:32 Polyamory and Monogamy
 00:51:31 Rediscovering Intimacy
 01:04:40 Prioritizing Sex and Pleasure
 01:20:09 Where to Find Vylana 

What Does It Mean to be Feminine?

What does it mean to be a woman? For Vylana, we have to have the willingness and desire to know ourselves on a deep level to be aware of the need for validation or being a “seductress”. There has to be the inquiry into self to actually reach that level of understanding. Vylana learned through her pleasure certification that it has connected her so intimately to “pussy”, not just a physical and biological thing but as a portal to the divine, the seat of a woman’s power, the being that can bring into the manifest. It’s connecting to this sense of listening to her and allowing her to guide you to what your desires and pleasures are. Doing it for yourself is true authenticity.

The Power of the Divine Feminine

When it comes to the role of purity, Vylana says “fuck all of that” and to all the ways that the world has shamed women for their greatest sense of power. Our purpose as women is to fully reclaim that purity. What Vylana learned along her spiritual path is healing the energy that she took on from her transactions with former partners. For her, being the feminine or  a woman who has a pussy, it’s important to say that we all have both masculine and feminine energy within us and that the feminine is in the expression of receptivity. When we are with a masculine partner, we are actually taking their energy into your body and shakra, creating a level of awareness as to why we want to be intimate and sexual with another person and it is that level of awareness that is the purity: knowing the reason for your desire.

How to Redefine and Rediscover Intimacy

In the world of our priorities, our highest priority in our relationships is to be in eros with each other or being in the inside of the inside of each other’s experiences. Intimacy can take many different forms through love languages: physical touch, words of affirmation, quality time, giving gifts, or acts of service. In a sexual lens, making sexual intimacy a priority is also crucial in making a relationship last. 

Links and Resources:


Bio Site


Official Website


Musician and medicine woman Vylana shares the power of the divine feminine and the importance of sex, pleasure, and intimacy.

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0 (0s): The way that I was receiving it was it kind of requires a certain level of nuance when someone challenges preconceived notions of what that archetype is supposed to be. So yeah, it kind of gets into the Madonna, Whore Complex, like that age old adage where you can either be a sexual female or you can be a mother and you can't be both. Hello everybody. You are listening to Chatting with Candice. I'm your host Candice Horbacz. Before we jump into this week's episode, if you can hit that like and subscribe wherever you are listening or watching, it helps a ton with charting searchability and the algorithm. Tell all your friends about the podcast so that I can have more awesome conversations like this one. 0 (44s): I was giddy and giggly when I found out who was on the podcast. This week we have Vylana Marcus joining the podcast. Vylana is the wife of Aubrey Marcus. She is also an incredible goddess in her own right and she's an incredible recording artist. She's just a great example of stepping into that divine feminine energy and I was so excited to talk to her about everything I could talk to this woman for hours. Please help me welcome Vylana Marcus. I cannot say how excited I am for this conversation. When I found out that you were going to be on the podcast, I like giggled and screamed and was so excited. 0 (1m 29s): I feel like, and I don't know if this has been your experience, but I feel like there are so few women in the space of I guess being a role model for feminine energy in like that divine FeminineWhen embracing it. So when I saw you and have been following you, I'm like, this is what I've been looking for and I've just been drinking up all of your content. So thank you so much for being here. 2 (1m 52s): Thank you so much. It's an absolute, absolute honor to to be here with you and and just like can very much resonate with, you know, particularly what we see on social media and just in the world at large. Like, you know, kind of in my own search for really like searching for the women like who are really embodying the type of woman that I wanna be. You know, so I, I completely resonate with that and just I feel so honored and grateful that you see me as that. Thank you. 0 (2m 23s): Yeah, no thank you. It's, I find it so curious because there's a huge spectrum of what is it to be a man and people defining masculinity, but with women I feel like it's a lot more polarizing for me. Get one that is almost this chaotic sexual energy. Maybe like a little bit, and I don't wanna say unbridled in a bad way cuz unbridled can also, you know, there's a light version of that, but just this more hungry ghost if you will of yeah, the sexual female sexual energy. And then there's the quote red pilled one, which is this kind of, of redesigned puritanical version of what a woman is supposed to be. 0 (3m 5s): So I guess navigating that feminine space, like how do you find your position in it? And I guess what has the feedback been on your end? 2 (3m 14s): Yeah, I mean I'm actually in a really like pertaining to sexual energy. I love that you asked that question because I actually just started a six month PLE Pleasure certification with the legend Mama Gina, I don't know if you've ever heard of her. She's the author, 0 (3m 31s): He's on a podcast in a couple weeks. 2 (3m 33s): Yeah, she's so amazing. So I am like deep, deep in her Pleasure certification. It's a six month course and all of it is about like, you know, she's the author of a book called Pussy A Reclamation and everything that she stands for is for women to really reconnect to their Pleasure and desire and the power of their pussy. One of the things that she says is like, when you're connected to your pussy, like you live a powerful life and I'm experiencing that so expansively firsthand right now, you know, week by week as I'm going through all of this, all of these different modules and all this information and all these rituals and practices. 2 (4m 13s): And so it's an interesting thing when you talk about sexual energy because I think there's an element of, you know, what you would say as like the hungry ghost, like kind of just wild, like that sort of energy that you had referenced. What comes to mind when you had expressed that is where does that energy come from is like what is actually the desire that is there beneath that energy? Is it something that's, I'm like fully in my Pleasure and deliciousness of life and so this is how I wanna express and my pussy guides my life. Like is it that kind of empowered Expression or is it I don't feel love for myself and I don't feel love, you know, in my community and my family and my atmosphere. 2 (5m 2s): So I want to find love in these ways that maybe if I express my sexual energy I'll receive that maybe on Instagram, you know, maybe in public, whatever it may be. So it's like, it's kind of con reconnecting to like what's the why for the Expression, you know, and same thing for like a puritanical Expression where it's like I'm only, you know, like I'm all right here and, and I keep my sexual energy like completely behind closed doors and you know, whatever that may be like, maybe the why is because you know, there's probably a lot of wounding there, but also like maybe the why is I wanna be the good girl and I want to hold that perception because that's how I received love when I was young. 2 (5m 47s): So it's like there's such a full spectrum of how women's sexuality and embodiment and Expression well how it, how it all can express and where I land on there it's, you know, I feel like I'm moving into a space where I'm more of the really like free unbridled. Like I'm not holding anything back about my Pleasure and my desire so that it makes other people feel comfortable or because I'm worried about how I will be judged for it or any of the projections that people might have about why I'm expressing it. Like I'm in this season where I'm really just owning my Pleasure and my desire for myself and that's just gonna look like what it's gonna look like, you know? 2 (6m 34s): So like some days I might be like really out there and really wild and I might wanna talk about it and share about it and then other days, you know, my turn on might not totally be there. So it, it's, I feel like I'm constantly moving through the spectrum, but my ultimate, my ultimate goal in my own feminine embodiment is for everything to all the way up and all the way down be fully Authentic. Like absolutely Authentic. And if that means like, do I express my sexuality because I'm looking for validation or because I wanna be seductive or whatever those things may be like, okay, like that's where I'm at and I can own that and I can not shame myself for it, but I can have the awareness around it and understand if like that's the place I wanna operate from. 2 (7m 26s): Yeah, those are, that's just kind of everything that was coming through. I know that was like a big, no that was full spectrum to your question, but no, that was like, it was very nuanced. 0 (7m 35s): That was very, I mean you nailed it. I think we all kind of move through that spectrum and some days we're a lot more reserved and some days we're a lot more expressive. And to me the frustrating thing is when you have people that have never met you telling you what your Authentic Expression is and they're saying, you know, no, her dad must have left her if she's behaving this way or she must have low sense of self-worth if she's taking these pictures and putting them online. And it's like, no, your body can be a form of art and your Expression of sexuality can be art and like art is supposed to be shared. It's not something that's supposed to invoke shame and that has something to do with you, right? Like that's all of your projections that you're, you're putting on to me. 0 (8m 16s): So absolutely. 2 (8m 17s): I 0 (8m 17s): Guess my, my next question would be maybe you haven't had that conversation with yourself about Authentic Expression, cuz I think that's what it comes down to. Wherever you wanna land on that spectrum is just being Authentic to who you are. How do you go about separating the ego and what is an Authentic Expression versus something that's more counterfeit and something that's maybe being driven by a deficit? 2 (8m 43s): Yeah, I mean I think that that's like, that's the really deep inquiry into self, you know, I mean first and foremost you have to have the willingness and the desire to know yourself on a deep level like that to actually be aware of like, you know, maybe there's some more wanting to be validated kinds of things going on. Or maybe this is actually just really true for me right now. Maybe like me being a seductress is like my biggest turn on and, and that doesn't look like just seducing men. Like I can seduce my husband, I can seduce something happening in my life. Like there's, it's a lot more full spectrum than that. But I mean, first and foremost I would say that there has to be the inquiry into self to actually feel like you can even get to a place where you would have that understanding and something that I'm learning about, you know, and this is speaking directly to women, I don't know how much this pertains to men other than, you know, if you have a partner, this could be really relevant information for them. 2 (9m 44s): But one thing that I'm learning in this Pleasure certification is it is connecting me so intimately with pussy and pussy, not just as like a physical biological thing, but pussy as a portal to the divine pussy as the seat of your power pussy, as the, you know, being that can bring the life into the manifest. And it's really connecting to this sense of listening to her and just allowing her to guide you to what your desires are like and what is your Pleasure and what do you want. And if it feels genuinely good to her to be witnessed in your sexual energy and you wanna go on Instagram and you wanna do a sexy video of you dancing and it's, you're doing it for you. 2 (10m 37s): And because it's your turn on for yourself, like that is authenticity, you know? And, and it is, it is exactly as you said. And, and I've experienced this so much as well in so many realms of, you know, just having a following on social media and putting art out into the world. People love to come at you with their projections of what they think you're trying to do. You know, and part of that comes from wounding and there's also a part of it that it's like there's so much distorted energy around sexuality that people actually don't even know what to believe. So when it's Authentic it's like that can't be Authentic. Like I've never seen a woman who can actually embody like the full fuck of her sexual energy. 2 (11m 22s): So like she's just trying to get attention and, you know, get likes and get validation and you know, all of that. And maybe that's the case, but maybe that's Authentic, you know, so who is anyone to judge, like where somebody else's desire or impulse to do something is it's like, it's an interesting thing to contest with. Cause I can really resonate on that level that it's, it's very frustrating to be seen or judged in a way that's really not at all what your embodiment is. And also, you know, the frustration that can be a response to that is potentially some part of you that is maybe in agreement or so afraid of judgment that it kind of like rocks you and shakes your center. 2 (12m 7s): And then again, like there lies your work to do to get so right within yourself that you were just unfuckwithable like go ahead, say everything you want. I know myself so deeply, I know the place that it's coming from and I don't need your approval like that. That feels to me like it is the Authentic powerful woman that this world needs so bad. And that's what I will always stand for and I will always, you know, try to discover within myself and, and we are, we are the feminine, like we wave between different emotions constantly, so we're not always going to be in that place of power, but it's like just having the patience and tenderness with self to be all of it. 0 (12m 54s): Where do you think the, whether it's like it's intentional or it's subliminal people, if you, the more, almost like the more sexual you are or the more into your feminine you are, they automatically assume that you lack intelligence. Like for some reason that is a huge common narrative. So it's almost the sexy you are the more like in your fuck that you are. You're like, well that's just where she defaulted to because there, there was nothing else to add. Like one of the, I made the huge mistake of going through comment section of a podcast I was recently on today before we hopped on, on, I don't know why would do that. My husband's like, why would you do that? I was like, I must be a masochist somewhere inside there there's the masochist and it's like why, like listening to someone in when they call you like a thought, you know what I mean? 0 (13m 41s): So that's one of the great compliments of the internet, listening to her on morality or spirituality is living in the upside down world. And it's like, why? Because I'm owning sexuality, my sexuality and what that looks like for me. Does that automatically not make me human? That doesn't make me a whole person that's experienced life that maybe has a unique insight, like I am just supposed to now exist in this one space to make you comfortable. 2 (14m 7s): Yeah, I mean it, it, it feels like it's just, it's a symptom of this whole like, cancel, cancel culture like culture that we're in right now where everyone is so quick to tear down anybody for absolutely anything. And and where I think that energy actually comes from is like that energy that happens, you know, in like what you were saying with when people kind of like puts you in this container in this box. So it automatically means that like everything that you have to say isn't relevant. It sounds very similar to, you know, and this might be a little bit of a, a tender subject that I won't go into deeply, but it's like, you know, with everything that happened in this global awakening that happened over the last few years with Covid and the lockdowns, it's just like if you're not a scientist, like nothing that you say matters or you know, it's just like this like black or white dualistic idea of how the world works without like allowing for there to be a spectrum in between. 2 (15m 12s): And it feels like there's a, there's a sense of safety when people can feel like a, like when things are black and white, you feel like you're more in control and you can like, and you can understand the world and if it's anything outside of that it almost can threaten your identity or your, you know, outlook on the world. And so it feels like, yeah, it feels like that energy that comes with that judgment, 0 (15m 36s): The way that I was receiving it was it kind of requires a certain level of nuance when someone challenges preconceived notions of what that archetype is supposed to be. So yeah, it kind of gets into the Madonna, Whore Complex, like that age old adage where you can either be a sexual female or you can be a mother and you can't be both. And one of them it was, what was it? Our anniversary present, my husband got me this little statue, which I'm obsessed with. So it's the maid and the mother in Theron and I'm not sure if you're familiar with that. 2 (16m 10s): Yeah, 0 (16m 10s): Yeah. And I just, I love it so much because it's kind of you, it's the evolution of what a woman's life cycle is and at, you know, at the end she still has part of that maiden in her. She still has like that little wildness and she still has that sexuality and we're not creating that division. You're allowed to be this complex individual that isn't, I guess divided or fractured. Yeah. And for some reason a lot of people want that fracture is the way that I experience it. 2 (16m 38s): Yeah, for sure. 0 (16m 39s): Hey everyone, this is new. So we are taking a quick break for a couple of sponsors. How exciting is that, that we have a couple sponsors for the podcast? So this is new, please don't skip it, just listen, it's cool stuff, I promise. So my first one is a small company called Ragnar's Rocks and I'll make sure I have the link below. As you know, I love crystals and I get made fun of for it all of the time, but I'm, I'm not gonna change my ways and I'm gonna stand by it. I truly believe in them and I think that they're beautiful, so sue me. But he sent me, I mean how incredible is that? He sent me this beautiful amethyst, I've got this really cute rose quartz skull. 0 (17m 22s): All this is on my table you can't see, but when I start doing two cameras you'll be able to see my little setup and this cute little crystal Buddha, how adorable is he? These bracelets are from there. I mean I was really stoked to have him as a sponsor because this is right up my alley. So if you're into any crystals or you just wanna check out the website, it's wagners rocks.com and I'll link that below. And the last affiliate last sponsor, please don't skip, this one's a good one. So we all know the benefits of fasting. Well my husband and I have used this company ProLon actually a couple of times. So I was really excited that they wanted to be an affiliate of the podcast. 0 (18m 3s): So if you wanna try ProLon, it's a fasting mimicking diet so you get all the benefits of a water fast and it's a lot easier cuz you get this delicious food instead of having to completely eat nothing. So you can try ProLon for $150 with the code. Candace, some of the claims for, and I mean I say claims, but I'm going off of a script guys, 60% of people that completed the fast had better energy, mental clarity and focus. You'll definitely shed some lbs. I felt a ton lighter after doing it. It's cool to do difficult stuff and obviously fasting is not easy, so it's kind of cool to see how you can kind of push it and get through something that you thought you might not be able to do. 0 (18m 45s): It's a lot easier than just doing a water cleanse. And again, like you, I think the average here, yeah, people lose an average of 5.7 pounds and 1.6 inches off of their waistline. So soon as I'm done breastfeeding, I'm doing one of these and Eric's supposed to be starting anytime now, so we'll see when he decides to start. So I'll link that below. Again, if you wanna try ProLon, you can try it for 150 bucks. Use code Candace. And let's return to the 2 (19m 14s): Episode. And also like something that came to mind as you were originally kind of posing the question is like, if you think about the ways that that women have been glorified in kind of like us growing up, like if you think of the Playboy days, it's like, like women, like a girl next door, like probably doesn't say too much, is like really beautiful and blonde and innocent looking and it's like, it's not really showcasing any of the depth of what it is to be the feminine. Like where do you really see people talking about the brilliant nature of the magic that can come through a woman because she's so connected to the earth. Cause she's so connected to her sensing and her intuition. 2 (19m 55s): It's like what is glorified in culture is this is what woman looks like and most of that is a totally disempowered embodiment or maybe not even disempowered, but like there's not a lot of substance and depth and expansiveness that's really celebrated, you know, is is totally what I see. And, and and imagining woman, like I feel like we're growing up when, when I was young or even when I went to college, it's like there's this structure of how you move about life. Like you're a young girl who all young girls still wanna be like the older girl and like grow up even and not experience their youth. 2 (20m 35s): I was definitely subject to that. And then you go to college and then you're supposed to get married and you're supposed to have kids and then you raise your kids and it's just like you're in this system that's just like, this is what you do as a woman, woman. And, and over our lifetime that shifted drastically where women were actually stepping. It felt like that was like a pendulum swing that was on this end. And then the pendulum swung the other way where women got very, very like almost aggressive into like being masculine, masculine, you know, which, which was, which I feel like was a necessary step to totally reclaim, you know, all of the power that had been, all the ways that we'd been disempowered for so many years. 2 (21m 17s): And now it feels like it's shifting back where, where women are really recognizing the importance of feeling, you know, like there there are elements of of the feminine principle that is being, you know, intuitive and receptive and not in this energy of just like pushing so hard and like creating and, and like being in this machine. But it's like we're realizing how to come back more into some of that balance. And also with that balance, you're the full spectrum of the maiden, the mother and the Crohn. Like I feel like I act like the greatest ridiculous inner child with my husband constantly. 2 (21m 58s): Like that part of me is so alive and how dare I let that young imaginative part of me die? There's also a medicine woman in me who has been through an immense trauma and learn how to heal and alchemize it. And so I, I know with Osis so many things that have happened in my life and how I have worked my way through them and and healed them, does that make me an expert by book that I'm a psychologist or I have a PhD in this or that, or I study with this person? No, but I have a lot of wisdom because I went through the school of life and I know exactly what worked for me and to, you know, look at any person merely from image and to dismiss that there's any depth there. 2 (22m 44s): It's probably coming from a place of just like woundedness with a feminine, like I guarantee all of those people probably don't like women and ha probably have a lot of wounding with their mother. So it's interesting to see a beautiful woman and all women are beautiful, but you know, a particular image of a woman who has a lot of depth, who has a lot to say, who has a lot of power and to be like, I don't like that sense of power and the feminine because I hate the feminine or you know, I feel like I don't feel safe with women who are powerful so I have to like, you know, bring that down and contain it into a box. Like it feels like that all comes from woundedness, but can be, you know, it's, i I resonate too with just going through comments or things like that sometimes when people are just like absolutely cruel and it it, it feels really jarring to even understand like what, what, what is the purpose? 2 (23m 40s): You know 0 (23m 42s): What, absolutely. And again, I don't recommend going through the the comments to anybody, but there's, 2 (23m 48s): There's 0 (23m 48s): Times where I do it and I think maybe it's me just trying to check, like check the temperature of my own self. Like how at peace am I with all of my decisions and everything that's out there? And then if something does bother me, I immediately see well like what wound is that touching? And sometimes I can't find it and I'm like, no, maybe. And I think this doesn't get talked of enough, especially maybe in more of the mystic side of content, maybe someone is just being so cruel and like that cruelty is just hard to see and that's also possible. Absolutely. And I think that's something I'm trying to like adopt and actually feel because my immediate response is, okay, well what's it in me that I have to work on if that's bothering me? 0 (24m 30s): And I'm like, no. Sometimes things are just so ugly that it's, it's difficult to see and when you see someone like had the audacity to say that, it's like, man, yeah, I like that You're just lacking humanity and you're taking mine or trying to take mine away from me 2 (24m 42s): For sure. 0 (24m 44s): I think with all of that I wanted to get into, so there was this podcast I was listening to and it was kind of talking about The Power of the Divine Feminine and how how much can manifest and be shaken by woman that's just like truly sitting in that position. And something that culture and traditional religion did was recognize that power and make us forget. So make us forget our own power and our own divinity in that way. And then they tried selling us one path forward, which was this puritanical path. And it, the thing that I really dislike about it is it teaches young women that there's something that can be taken away from you and if that thing is taken away from you, you are no longer of worth or you are at, you're worth a lesser value because now that thing is gone, which is your virginity. 0 (25m 36s): And the way I think for me, that kept me in a really bad relationship for far too long because that was my narrative. The boy that took, took my virginity, now I had to stay with him and he came from a really religious upbringing and like, no, you can't take anything from me. Like all of that is mine. Yeah. And you know, the process of reclaiming it was really powerful. So I think that there can be a lot of harm when it comes to that narrative. I'm curious what your take is on the, like the role of purity within sexuality because there's this idea that it has to be monogamous, it has to be within, within marriage, it has to be the man leading it. 0 (26m 22s): Like women aren't allowed to ask for it because we are not, you know, in fuck as you, as you would say. Yeah. So like what is the role of purity and that idea of pureness when it comes to sexuality? 2 (26m 34s): I mean I, there's a part of me that just wants to just blatantly say fuck all of that, to be totally frank and all the ways that, you know, our world has shamed women for their greatest sense of power is like, it's mind blowing. And I think that that is our, you know, our purpose as women is to fully reclaim that. So first I would say fuck all of that. And also, you know, one thing that I've had to learn throughout my life and along my spiritual path, you know, I've, I've done a lot of work with plant medicine and psychedelics. I've had a lot of really, really profound healings in those spaces. 2 (27m 18s): And the, the purity, the only thing that I can really relate to in that sense is, you know, I have had a lot of sexual experiences with former partners, actually people who weren't partners that I have had to heal the kind of energy that I took on from those transactions. So if you think about, you know, being the feminine as a, as a woman who has a pussy, you know, and there are, I, I think it's always important to say particularly because of the greater conversation that's happening in the world. Like we all have masculine and feminine energy within us, and some men identify as, you know, their, their polarity being the FeminineWhen. 2 (28m 5s): So this is like a conversation that is fully honoring of all of that. But for, for the feminine, we are in this experience of this Expression of receptivity. And so when you are with a partner, you know, who is the masculine and you're actually taking their energy into your body, they're physically going up into your first and second chakra. And if there isn't a level of awareness there as to why you are doing that, so this is maybe where you could kind of use that sense of purity. Like if, if you are an awareness that I feel broken right now, like my heart is broken, I just got screwed over, cheated on, you know, whatever it may be, and you're in awareness that like, I might be having this experience sexually because it feels good to my broken heart. 2 (28m 59s): And you have awareness around that and you have the experience and it may be beautiful, maybe you never talk to them, whatever the awareness is the purity because you know exactly what your reason is for your desire. The where you get a lot of distorted energy around your sexual energy is if I feel broken and my heart hurts and then I just like reach for the validation of something else to like give me, you know, the satiation of love that I need in that moment, but I'm not aware of the reason why I'm doing it if it's completely unconscious, that's where you get a lot of stuff that happens in your energy body where you can take on, on energy. 2 (29m 42s): You may really have to like clean and clear that out later because the, the transaction isn't an awareness. Does that make sense? 0 (29m 51s): No, it does. I've heard the idea of very similar to how you've described because the woman, like the feminine energy is, it's like it's open and it's surrendering and it's allowing for for penetration essentially, right? Yeah. So with that exchange, if there's not a conscious awareness around it that you can get like these quote Attachments like energetic Attachments from whoever you're with. So when you're making these decisions, like let's say you're someone that's more sexually adventurous and I hate using the word promiscuous, but like promiscuous, is there a way to consciously make that those decisions and those actions to prevent these kind of negative atta like Attachments or yeah exchanges. 0 (30m 38s): Like is there a medi is gonna sound woo to some people, but like yeah, you know, meditation or just some kind of conscious awareness that you have before doing that. 2 (30m 47s): So I can only speak, you know, I am not God goddess on this, you know, particular, I can't tell, I can't specifically say the way that this works. However, I know exactly how his worked in my own life. So I will just share the story of that. So all of the healing that I've had to do around my sexuality were all around very toxic relationships that I had. There was a lot of energy of not reverence for me or my body. I wasn't respecting and honoring myself. Like there was just a lot of disempowered and not choosing me kind of energy in those experiences. And so, and those ones had, they came with a lot of hooks where it was like, you know, I hate you and then make up sex and it's just like the kind of like toxic back and forth. 2 (31m 36s): Like those are the things that I've had to deeply heal around my sexuality because I think in those experiences there was a sense of betrayal of me with myself and a sense of betrayal with the masculine principle that I was welcoming into my physical vessel and my energy body. I went through a period when I was probably like 29, I had always been in relationships my whole life and had only ever really understood Intimacy from a very, you know, devoted in a relationship kind of lens. And so I decided for six months or so that I wasn't going to date anybody cuz whenever I dated people, I would immediately get in another two year long relationship. 2 (32m 21s): And I was just like, I'm, I'm done being a serial monogamist and like continuing to go through this cycle. So I decided to take this period where I just want to know sex from a totally transactional kind of lens. Like, and I was very straightforward and honest with the people that I met that it was like, I called it my hit it and quit it period. Like I would meet them and maybe there would be a vibe. I worked in nightlife at the time, so it was like really easy to meet guys and you know, I would maybe vibe with somebody and I would just be really Authentic like, I don't wanna go to breakfast with you tomorrow morning, I don't wanna get your number after tonight. 2 (33m 1s): I'm very like in this totally like liberate like this liberating of my sexual Expression moment right now. And that's really, you know, if, if there's the resonance that it gets there, like amazing and if not whatever, but like this is, this is where I'm at, this is just authentically like what my desire is and if you wanna meet that desire, great. If not, like I'll keep it stepping. So I mean, I went through the six months and I had some wild, incredible experiences and I think because I made that declaration to myself and ultimately to the universe, I attracted the most like incredible men to play with. It was like super, it was, it was, it was very liberating, but it was also very empowering because for the first time I took full authority over my own sexuality and didn't say and said like, I'm not having sex with a man to please a man or to maintain my relationship because this is how we can feel deeper Intimacy or whatever it may be. 2 (34m 4s): I'm doing this entirely for me and if people wanna show up to what my needs and desires are in this moment, like fuck yeah, if not, whatever, I'm, I'm just like, this is all, I'm doing this all for myself right now of every single medicine journey I have ever done. I have never had to clean energy up from that time of my life. Not a si it's never come up a single time. I've even tried to like actively go into that time period to see if there's like stuff there that, you know, that that's just dissonant with my soul. And there's, and there's been absolutely nothing. So again, I feel like the, the purity aspect, instead of looking at it as, you know, I have to be this way because the world says this, this and this because my bishop or religion says I should be this, this, this and this. 2 (34m 57s): And, and like, just if you want to abide by those things like total honor and and respect for your own personal choices and if you wanna really be in your own power, like for one, have the awareness of, of your why, like why am I doing this? For me, I needed to understand like I needed to have a one night stand for one time in my life so that I didn't, you know, end up married and ever wondering like I didn't experience something, you know, and, and just the, just the the, I think the purity is the awareness around why is is the awareness around the why. I, I think it's like a, I think that's actually a really beautiful reframe instead of, I can only be pure if I am a virgin. 2 (35m 43s): And I mean even the idea of wearing white on your wedding day to symbolize purity, like I was not a virgin when I got married, you know, like we got, we, my husband and I got married at Burning Man, we did a Burning Man wedding this this past year. And I was like, I don't wanna wear white, I wanna wear red because like, I feel like the space that I'm stepping into is this like wild, powerful different embodiment that's not like shaming myself for anything that I've been, that's not trying to be anything that anyone wants me to be, but I'm just being radically myself, right? And I ultimately think, you know, I I'm in the most unimaginably beautiful, blessed rapturous just, oh my God, just divine marriage ever. 2 (36m 35s): And I think that it took, you know, the, the, the healing and the full reclamation of all of those parts of me, all of the parts of me that had really toxic relationships and had a lot of healing work to do, the part of me that was totally liberated and free that had the most wild sexual adventures for six months when I was in my late twenties, to really just welcoming all of myself and, and I really truly feel that that was how I then became the magnet to call in my, the greatest partner that like, I literally couldn't have dreamed it better to have a better partner. So yeah, I think, I think, I think the invitation is just a deeper inquiry into like what is really Authentic for me and go for it. 2 (37m 24s): Like be brave enough to, to go for it and not let everyone else's voices not like your, the church's voice or your parents' voice or you know, your former partner's voice and all these people who are judging you, telling you you should be some way like fuck their shoulds. Like don't should me, like I'm deeply meeting myself and that's gonna look like whatever is true for me. 0 (37m 47s): Exactly. I love that reframe. I really love that reframe because I couldn't help but think of my very first sexual experience. So when I first lost my virginity and I get so frustrated at that younger girl because I had, I was, you know, in a monogamous relationship for years with this guy and he was cheating on me and I, you know, that wasn't enough for me to end it. Finally, I was like, I can't do this anymore. And he's like, okay, he goes to leave and then I almost like Weaponizing that sex and that card in order to quote save that relationship. So I was like, no, I'll do this thing that I haven't given you and maybe that'll make him love me. 0 (38m 31s): Maybe that'll make me better than these other, these other girls. Yeah. And to me, when you ask about your why or we're talking about that reframe of purity, like that's not pure, that's not coming from an Authentic like healed place that's coming from a very, from a deficit that's absolutely from a deficit. And then there have been times where my husband was actually my first one night stand, 2 (38m 55s): One night dad, 0 (38m 57s): I was going through a phase two where I was likes like serial monogamous, I just, I always had to date the guy I was with and I was like, I wanna really experience what this is like this other flavor. And so we slept together and I was like, I don't want your number, don't call me. Like this is it. I'm take a cab home. He ends up asking everyone at the bar how to get in touch with me. And then, you know, through a very long journey of ups and downs, we ended up getting married. But if you compare that, that quote impure one night stand to the, you know, me losing virgin, my virginity to a long time monogamous Yeah. Boyfriend, which one is more often pure and light and heal. 2 (39m 38s): Yeah. And, and which one is coming from your own sense of desire and power? Like one, the initial one, which I feel like so many people, not even just women, I'm sure men as well can resonate with. And that was all of my healing work around sexuality was, I want you to love me so bad, so I will give myself to you in this way when I wasn't ready for it, maybe when I wanted to say no, you know, just like not having any sense of of truth or power to really like understand, you know, how to, how to navigate sexuality and relationship from a conscious place. But then when you go to the space of like, okay, like in my reclamation, in my power, in my desire one night stand and how, and how that ended up turning out for you. 2 (40m 27s): So people I'm sure who will wanna say, listen to these bureaus talking about being slutty and one night stand will, like, ultimately if you look at, if you look at, I love when people say stuff like that because I'm living the most extraordinary life and my north star is always to be the most free, to be the most free in my body, to be the most free in the world. And whatever it takes to get me there, like that's, that's where I'm headed. So you can project all of your fear and ways that my embodiment is threatening your own identity of yourself and, and everything that you know. And I guess having compassion too, everything that they probably haven't had the tools to, you know, go on that inner inquiry like, but nonetheless, like that whole path of going through all of that is what landed me exactly here and, and my husband and I getting together, you know, he was in a polyamorous relationship for like eight years and both of us have experienced prior to, you know, coming into union like a full spectrum of relating to relationship and sexuality. 2 (41m 38s): So like we are so like, it's like been there, done that like we're so satiated with each other's, you know, love and, and Intimacy and it's like, I, I feel like it was all perfect and you know, it, it's, it's a bummer for people who, who feel too afraid to allow themselves to kind of just like fall into something that might not be the most comfortable. Like it's actually really brave I think. 0 (42m 8s): Right. And then there's something so beautiful on the other side too, because if you're not stepping into that authenticity and that thing that you really want to do or express and you don't even know if it's a possibility cuz you've already closed the door before you've, you know, given yourself or maybe your partner that option, I definitely wanted to get into that Polyamory because I thought there, it's almost like you think you know where your ceiling is and you think that you know where you exist amongst the average as far as couples go or maybe where your jealousy goes or the way that you look at love. Yeah. So I don't know how much background you have on me or not, but I was in the adult industry for like over a decade and my husband and I also kind of had to navigate that, like what does that look like? 0 (42m 54s): And for me, I saw a lot of women that kind of compartmentalized it. So there they had to be monogamous, like the husband or boyfriend had to be monogamous, but then they were in film and I was like, that's not fair and that's not how I wanna explore this. I want the same rules for everybody. So we navigated that. It wasn't always easy, there were certainly tears and fights and I think we came out on the other side so empowered and fortified, like we were forged through that experience. And I think it, I can't speak for him, but it certainly showed me the truth behind unconditional love. Like it's, oh yeah, our love is not conditional on like you behaving a certain way or me feeling a certain way. 0 (43m 36s): It's like, no, we have gone through the most extreme cases and I love you even more for it and I love you for how you show up and like, help me process things and how, you know what I mean? It's just you really see each other and how you show up. That's a long-winded introduction to me saying, I watched your podcast with Aubrey and Caitlin and I'm like, oh, who's this other girl that's on the podcast? And then I find out it's his ex-fiancee and I had never met you before, right? Yeah. But I found myself like defending you and 2 (44m 9s): Who 0 (44m 10s): Does she think she is for being on this show and like just watching it unfold. And then I see the love that you have For her. Yeah. And how real that was. And I was like, you can transcend whatever it is you're feeling if you want. And I thought I had reached this really cool level of not being jealous and being free and open and then I see you Aubrey and Caitlin and then that dynamic and I was like, whoa, they just transcended something that I'm still working on. I was like, I don't know how I would process like you meeting an ex-fiance and being fr you know what I mean? It just challenges so many, so much of your identity and what you think that you have ownership over. So that was, I say wanna say thank you because let's 2 (44m 52s): Give 0 (44m 53s): A good opportunity for growth. Thank one of the number one questions I get is transcending, and maybe that's the wrong word, but, or or just understanding jealousy. So what was that process like for you? Because you had mentioned having toxic relationships and being cheated on. Yeah. And some people would say like going from that to being able to be be with someone who, you know, was polyamorous and is still best friends with his ex-fiance is impossible. 2 (45m 22s): Yeah. I mean, I believe anything is possible if, if you really do the work, you know, to, to heal yourself. But like, wow, it's a big, that's a big journey. I'll try to feel into where to go with that. It's funny that you mentioned Caitlin because Caitlin and I, other than her being Aubrey's ex-fiance, that was actually like so long ago that it was pretty, you know, like that had been completed, their relationship so long ago that I actually met Caitlin when I met Aubrey and Caitlin at the same time. So I, I met them together and they were like really, really good friends then. So that wasn't so confronting. However, Caitlin and I were in a dance, in a former relationship of mine where I was in a mon monogamous relationship with my partner who began falling in love with her. 2 (46m 10s): And so we were in a dance for like about a year that was, you know, one of the most difficult years of my life because it, it definitely wasn't something that I wanted, I didn't have any desire to be polyamorous, and yet the situation was what it was. They both had feelings for each other. So my, my, the depth of where I have gone with that woman is so far beyond what I have done with almost really any other person because it brought up all of the deepest sister wounds and dissonance that I have had with the feminine for my entire life since I was a child. And my wounding with the feminine began. 2 (46m 52s): And so I can really, really resonate with the sense of unconditional love because she taught me that like there were points where, you know, we, like hate is such a strong word, but just that like rage, disgust, like fuck you energy that's just like dark and insidious, but just like inescapable because you're your your nervous system and like, it just feels so devastating to feel so threatened by another woman. And that had been, you know, my whole life of always feeling like I wasn't chosen because all of my former partners cheated and lied and, you know, went through all of that. 2 (47m 36s): So like my detest for the feminine was so strong because I've never been able to trust the feminine. It's like this is my relationship and you know, I'm with them and yet you still choose to sleep with them and do whatever. So like I had a lot to work through in that situation. And ultimately, you know, after going through all of it, realize that like unconditional love is not just when you love somebody because it's easy. Like if you can really, really deeply love somebody through that kind of shit, like that unconditional love. So I'm sure as you witnessed our relationship is the most, like I trust in it more than anything because we've been to the depths of hell and back with each other. 2 (48m 23s): But in that dynamic, you know, that jealousy was so amplified and particularly because like I I've I've been working through even recently this construct within myself that's very connected to perfectionism, but also this sense of like, I wanna be the best, I wanna be the best at anything I put my mind to. I wanna be the most beautiful, I wanna be the most loved I want. It's like this very subtle thing that has been shown to me in some of my medicine ceremonies where like, so much of the way that I operate is with that construct, which is, it's a really sad thing because it completely robs you of being the brilliance of your most unique self. 2 (49m 10s): And it's very subtle at this point in my life, but just very authentically, that's something that I've been witnessing and, and working through. But beneath that is like absolute jealousy. If if, if you're not the best at something. And, and I don't know if you've ever experienced this, I'm sure many people have experienced this, like you measure yourself up to how many followers, followers somebody else might have or, you know, maybe podcast listens or like measuring, opening up your Instagram and oh this post only got that much likes. Like, it's like all these feelings of inadequacy and like not enoughness and like when there is something else that threatens your sense of safety with feeling like you're the best at something, jealousy is absolutely at play. 2 (49m 54s): Like why did they give her more love and attention that they're giving me? Like what does that say about me? Does that mean I'm not enough? And then all of the self-judgment and self-criticism that happens within your own field and how that just like propagates more of the same. Like I have not been innocent to that in my life. Like I feel like the former part of my life where I was not living very consciously and didn't have a lot of self-awareness that I wanna be the best came forward in like appearance and beauty and being like, I have to look a certain way when I go out and always put on makeup and like always feel like I, you know, can walk into a room and I feel more confident because this, this, this, this and this. 2 (50m 39s): So I feel like a long time ago through my spiritual path, I transcended that need to feel like I want to be better than anyone in physical appearance, appearance or physical fitness. And I really shifted into like really falling in love with the entirety of myself for my natural beauty. Like I'm starting to wear my hair more curly, which I've always hated my whole life. Like just things where I'm actually doing things for me. And then ultimately because you know, the, the more recent identity that I recognize within myself is, you know, I'm, I'm a medicine woman, I do sound healing and I do energy work and I do a bunch of different types of healing modalities and then noticing where I have been in competition with another sister of mine who I absolutely adore and is like so powerful and so magical, but watching this tiny little insidious voice that's like, you know, if Aubrey might ask For her opinion versus mine, somehow that like impacts me and makes me feel like a sense of not enoughness or jealousy and, and you know, everything that comes with that. 2 (51m 49s): So I have experienced, I'm still to this day coming into more and more and more awareness as to where those types of things are at play. And it's perfect that you asked that question because this is so ripe for me. And what I can see is like the, as I said before, when you are in competition with anybody, when you are measuring yourself up to anybody else, you are robbing yourself of being the full spectrum and full radiance of your uniqueness that only you can be, there cannot be another me on this planet that can, you know, express the medicine and the codes that I have to offer with my embodiment with, you know, anything that I'm coming forward with. 2 (52m 34s): Like I'm the only one that can be me on this planet. So how dare I try to be like anybody else? How dare I compare myself to anybody else and criticize myself for not being enough or for not being as well known or for not being as well loved or you know, yeah, just looking at anyone else and, and creating that as a measure of self. That's something that I am, you know, I I feel like I've, I've done a lot of beautiful things in my life and there's still a lot of parts of me that are broken and healing that I'm, I'm trying to learn how to navigate. So, you know, this isn't something that I'm super proud of, but if it can help anyone else to see that, like I have all of that same stuff. 2 (53m 15s): Like I'm not any different and the way to the way to that I've found to work with jealousy is one, do not make yourself like a piece of shit for it. Like don't make yourself wrong for it. Don't reject yourself for it and be like, oh I can't be jealous because that's like an ugly girl thing to do or that's like a stupid thing to do. Like if anyone sees me as jealous, like you know, I'm gonna die. Like there's like so much of that energy for one, it's just to be an acknowledgement like that's there and I see the wounded place of me that doesn't feel like she's good enough because life has always, you know, there has been so much wounding in my life that I haven't really felt the full ability to look deeply into myself and love myself for everything. 2 (54m 4s): And part of really connecting to your own sense of your raw uniqueness as my teacher would say, like your unique facet in the diamond of God that is you, that can only be you at this time in the cosmos and always you are the only one that can do that. And if you can connect to that and have a sense of love for like your full spectrum, you'll see, you'll watch that the jealousy starts to fall away and not from a sense of it just goes away, but when you start to have the awareness around when you're playing out those programs in your, in your thought patterns, you have the choice to start to navigate to something different. Like instead of seeing my dear sister who I love and she's just like getting fucking loved on and she has so many more followers than me, like fuck yeah. 2 (54m 52s): Like go, go go. The world deserves to hear your voice. The world deserves to receive your magic and your wisdom and that doesn't have to mean anything about me and it doesn't mean anything about me. That's kind of like shifting and navigating into more of an empowered place where you're not rejecting yourself, you're calling all parts of yourself back in and you're just choosing from awareness to do something differently. 0 (55m 20s): No, that's beautiful. I wanted to ask, so I guess through those experiences and then you and Aubrey's relationship evolving, what did, like did you have to reestablish what Intimacy was or to kind of Yeah, I guess reestablish or re Rediscover Intimacy. Cuz I know for me that was something that I didn't know really missing. I often conflated that sexual energy as obviously being intimate, which it's not like Intimacy doesn't have to be sexual and not all sexuality is Intimacy. 0 (55m 60s): So really, I mean even as of now, like, so we recently had our second baby and like reconnect, reconnecting after that is, is really difficult and like reestablishing that Intimacy and we've been together for over a decade and it's like there's, you can still go deeper. Like there's always deeper that you can go with somebody. So what are some practices if you're willing to share that kind of keep that Intimacy and that connection 2 (56m 29s): Alive between my husband and I? Yeah. Yeah. So we actually, like in the world of our priorities, our highest priority and our relationship is to be in Eros with each other. And so that's like literally being in Eros is like being on the inside of the, inside of each other's experience. And so Intimacy can take many different forms. Like if like his Aubrey's love language, you know, he's not a gifts person or words of affirmation, but it is so meaningful to him or like to receive acts of service where I can actually anticipate something that he might need and provide that for him before he knows that he needs it. 2 (57m 15s): It like literally lights him up and he'll turn into like a puppy dog and just follow me around all over the place. Like that's a form of Intimacy is, is really taking the time to see through your partner's eyes and, and speaking to them from their own love language. Like for me, like I am all about physical affection. Like that's my me too absolute number one. Like I need it 24 7. I smother the shit out of him all the time. But like if I'm washing the dishes and he comes up behind me and just holds me and just like, just holds me and kisses me on the neck, like even for a second, it literally changes my entire day. You know, it's like those tiny things where they're seeing into you and what would make you feel so alive and in love and just, you know, making that a priority. 2 (58m 2s): So that's like a simple non-sexual way that you envy an Intimacy it from a sexual lens. You know, we, and it's different because I'm not a mother yet, so I can't even possibly imagine what it is like to be a designated caring, like powerhouse of, of a, you know, feminine Expression of mother. Like, I don't know that yet. I'm excited. In the next year or so we're gonna, we're gonna start trying to start our family, but congratulations. Thank you. Yeah. Exciting. Eventually we'll get there. Right now we have these crazy cats who love disrupting and taking all the attention from everything. Another practice that we use in our relationship is like, we make our sexual Intimacy a priority. 2 (58m 46s): Like the same way I would schedule this podcast or he would take a meeting about a really, you know, important business thing. Like we schedule out and block out time for us to have date nights, like preferably on the weekly, sometimes our life gets so busy that it's really difficult to maintain that, but like we can feel once we have like, let that priority, you know, kind of take a back seat. And both of us feel like a little bit of like, it's easy to get in a rhythm of just operating day to day. Like, I'm so busy all day long and then I'm tired and then I don't really feel like it, but it's like, no, like we refuse to allow our Intimacy and our sexual like erotic energy to die and not to be made priority because it's, it's felt, it's really, really easy to get in rhythms and patterns, particularly when you've been together for a long time. 2 (59m 41s): You know, we haven't been together for a decade, but we've been together for three years and we're very used to each other. So, you know, would it be easy to just be comfortable and like, not make that a priority for sure. And we'd still be happy, but we would be missing out on like the deeper layers of expansion and touching God that we get to do when we are intimate. And you know, sometimes, so like our date nights we create some sense of novelty when we go into a date night. Like, I will get new lingerie and maybe I'll come up with this scene that is creating, you know, something that we haven't fully experienced before. 2 (1h 0m 22s): Maybe it's something that's like, you know, his kink or his, like, things that I know just like really do it for him or, and, and maybe sometimes it's more focused on me and kind of like doing that dance between the two, but making it a priority. Like it's taking your kids go to school. Like, it's like a, it's it's, it's a non-negotiable and we treat it as that. And it's been really helpful for us because, you know, he's a man with a very insatiable desire. And I think, I think for me up until being in this Mama Gina course where I'm like so activated in my own Pleasure and desire like every single day from like all these different rituals and, and you know, practices of, of dance and, and meeting, you know, our own like rage and grief within us. 2 (1h 1m 9s): All these things that are just like keeping me really alive in my body. I feel like my desire is more insatiable recently, but prior to being so in touch with my, my Pleasure and my pussy, I felt like it, it was easy for me to just kind of get out of the rhythm of like, okay, well he, he has a lot of desire, so like we're gonna make our sexual chemistry like a priority. But now it's actually me meeting him in those desires where I actually am claiming for myself like, this is my fantasy right now. And, you know, offering that and allowing that to be how we go about our next date night. 2 (1h 1m 50s): But ultimately, yeah, just, just making it, making it a priority. And also, you know, there's, there's a book that will come out eventually by Aubrey and his teacher Mark Gaffney that talks about like these seven different levels of sexing that you can do and it's gonna be a really, really great map and guide and tool book. And it just kind of gives you like a full landscape of there's not one kind of sexing. And particularly like, I think, I think the way that we look at having sex is very like linear. It's very masculine. It's like, okay, let's, you know, do our date night linger and then then we start having sex and you get me off and then you get off and then like we're done. 2 (1h 2m 33s): It's like there's a goal and aim that like it's going to, there's this other way of sexing where it's like what Gaffney would call circle sexing where it's more feminine, where you're not being intimate to get anywhere. You're actually like totally taking that off the table and instead you're allowing yourself to be so fully present in the moment that you're in such a space of deep listening that it's not even about orgasm at all. You might not, you, you might not get there. And maybe the intention is actually not to get there because what you can do is you like build this two essence and charge in your body where it's like, maybe it's more sensual and tender, but it just lends the space for like everything to be heard and the more subtle energies of desire and Pleasure to be accessed. 2 (1h 3m 26s): And for me right now, I think because I've been so, I've been so used to linear sexing and it's like I know how to do that. Like I know exactly where my buttons are, I know exactly what positions and we can continue to like ride that ride and, and it'll be great. But like, do we want to deepen and expand our Intimacy? So like, why don't we try these other things? Like why don't we go into it where it starts with a little bit of like touch and maybe one person is blindfolded and maybe they're, there's some beautiful music on and you're like rubbing them with a rose and then, and then like, you know, gently kind of like drawing more and more Pleasure energy but just for the sake of it, not because you need to have an orgasm. 2 (1h 4m 9s): And what you'll find, at least for me is I get like so turned on and so excited cuz it actually almost feels like, it almost feels like teasing or it's like building up the tension to where, I mean pretty often like we, like sometimes we won't fully go to climax, but it's like there's just like so much build and energy in charge to be doing it with a different intention and in a different way that it's just so exciting. Like you just can't, not if that makes sense 0 (1h 4m 40s): And what a, what a great way to like truly be present and to Rediscover your partner, especially after you've been with someone for so long. Because when you get through that, when you start finding yourself going through the motions and you're like, okay, we're gonna start here, we're gonna end here, we're gonna do this in between, and it's just so robotic. Like you're not actually in your body and you're definitely not really connecting on any real like spiritual or like for sure deep level. And it's so easy to be there. 2 (1h 5m 10s): It is. It really, really is. It's just, it's a rhythm. It's like going to work, you know, you just like create the same kind of like pathways in your brain that it's just like I know exactly where this is going and, and it's not that it's boring, it's still intimate and it's beautiful, but like my desire is always to expand into like more like what is, what is like raw and juicy and delicious and just different than what we know. And, and one thing that I would offer for, for women that's been more recent for me is like, I've actually never taken the time to get clear about like what are my fantasies and what are my, like what are my desires? 2 (1h 5m 50s): Like really like just giving yourself the full permission to like sit down with a journal or your laptop and like, I actually, a practice that I've been using recently cuz I'm in Mama Gina's course is like, I literally like put my hand on my pussy and I just ask her like, what is exciting to you? You know, and just like allow myself to listen and I've actually been coming forward and claiming what my desires are and that turns me on. You know, there's like, I have a huge, I actually have a, a huge fantasy of like seducing and so it's like kind of like using my own body as his tumescence where like maybe I'm kind of like strip dancing and it's like he can't touch me yet, but like, something about that really turns me on. 2 (1h 6m 37s): And I, I recognize that from my younger years of like, what, what was I actually getting out of those experiences? And, and I realize it's actually a big turn on me to be like a seductress. And so just getting clear about like for women, I don't think we very often ask like, what does it for me? You know, men have such an appetite and a hunger that it's, it's really easy to just get into like pleasing what they need. And I think women don't realize is actually like, like a real man wants to please the goddess. Yes. They want to please the goddess. Like, you know, there's a man that you want to be intimate with in that way, wants to please the goddess. 2 (1h 7m 21s): And when you can feel that from them, it's like this charge of energy that builds that you're like, wow, I've been married with the most amazing man for three years and somehow our sex and Intimacy keeps getting better and better and better and better because I'm taking so much time to get deeply in touch. And you'll talk about this with Mama Gina, I'm sure she'll share share practices and experiences and all of this and like, just deeply profound and needed like rituals and, and, and just everything that she's doing. Like it, I I it's so important what her medicine is for, for, for women to really like meet themselves deeply. It's, it's bringing me a lot of things that I didn't really even know that I needed. 2 (1h 8m 3s): So I'm happy to be speaking from that place of like experiencing firsthand how important it is to really get in touch with self and like be in the inquiry of like, what are my deepest needs, desires, fantasies, and feeling worthy of asking for them. 0 (1h 8m 19s): No, that's so powerful. And it, I anything, it's an energy like anything else. So it's almost the more that you neglect it or kind of push it off to the side, the harder it is to reengage in that or to step back into it. And I learned a crazy fact the other day. So I, I'm going to women's PT for like pelvic floor stuff. My vagina doesn't think it's safe out there for some reason. So I just hold a lot of tension. So we're doing a lot of release work, but if you neglect that part of your body, your clitoris will actually start to atrophy. Like that's 2 (1h 8m 53s): Real. Yeah. 0 (1h 8m 54s): I'm like, why does every woman not know this? Yeah, that's huge. That can affect the rest of your life for sure. You should actually Prioritizing your Pleasure and really trying to discover what it is that you, that turns you on and getting to a place where you're comfortable enough to share that with your partner. Because I mean, more often than not, he's probably gonna be super excited about it. We do, we try to do the same thing like scheduling date nights at least a week if we can. And one of my favorite exercises that I tell people, and I discovered it through like this postpartum book and it was kind of saying the importance of reestablishing Intimacy and getting co like confident in your body and Rediscovering fantasy was like creating a sexual buffet. 0 (1h 9m 39s): So like each of you has a piece of paper and like, do this on date night. I like you will not regret it. And so you have a piece of paper, definitely get some wine or something and you write down every single fantasy that you either want to explore, have explored, have been curious about, and just do it without judgment. Get as crazy as you want. And then the bold part is switching papers and then repeating your partners and seeing if there's any crossover, what You wanna explore. And then maybe like this week I work off of my list and then next week I work off of his list. And it's just a really fun way to bring novelty and like spiciness into a relationship for sure. 0 (1h 10m 21s): That doesn't involve anything crazy like bringing, you know, other people if you're not comfortable or poor, not comfortable. It's just a way to kind of reignite that little ember. 2 (1h 10m 30s): Oh yeah. And it's, and the, and the beautiful thing about that practice as a reflection is it's also bringing forward honesty. You know, like if you're just allowing yourself, like if you're giving both of you the permissibility to be able to express like whatever feels the most ripe in that moment and not meaning that you need to act on it, right? Like one thing that is absolutely gorgeous about my marriage is like we talk about everything. Like if it is my highest excitement in a moment to potentially explore with another man, you know, it's, it's something that we sit down and talk about, but like there's an openness to be able to have any conversation and you know, through those conversations we've had really beautiful experiences with, with lovers cuz there's an aspect of me, of of my own sexuality that I haven't fully explored in my life because I've always been very unsafe of just like my own desire to love the feminine, you know, and that's really like, that's really ripe for me and alive in my body. 2 (1h 11m 35s): And it's funny because when I speak about that so many, I've had so many women reach out to me on Instagram and, and it comes from a good place, but with the projections of like how he convinced me to do what he wants and like all these things and I'm like, I don't even want to answer because first of all, there's a part of me that feels offended that they don't see me as enough in my power to be able to discern whether that is my need or his need. And I'm just like giving him what he wants and like how dare he manipulate me and convince me, da da da. It's like, no, I've actually like my inquiry into my own Pleasure and my desire that I got super clear about with myself is like, like how does my body feel if, you know, I'll have a, I'll have a vision of like being with, you know, a man that I know that I'm attracted to, that I really trust in. 2 (1h 12m 28s): It's like, what does that feel like? It's like, it'd be beautiful and I I love them and it would be safe, but like, it doesn't make me super excited. And I think of like a random guy that's like, you know, the hot guy I saw on Instagram or something like that. Like it could be cool, but like it doesn't make me that exciting and that it doesn't make me that excited. And then feeling into like experiences with the FeminineWhen my body, like totally lighting up and being super excited. So because of our openness and honesty and willingness to like really be fully Authentic with each other and express our needs and desires, we've had some really powerful experiences. 2 (1h 13m 10s): And also to add to that, like I'm, I'm very, very blessed with an extraordinary man. He has, he has really like expressed to me in many moments that his Expression of his sexuality and his eros is fully in my hands. Like I hold all the power, I hold all the gates to be able to welcome and experiences or completely shut it off for the rest of our lives. Like I hold that power in our relationship and something so beautiful about that for any men who are listening, something that is so, so beautiful about that is when you hold that sense of power, which I feel, I feel like many men would be like, was like, that's weak. 2 (1h 13m 52s): That's, you know, this, that and whatever holding that sense of power in my hands over like a brilliant, successful, powerful divine masculine, I could not ever abuse that sense of power. So my openness maybe even to experiences that would, you know, know be more, more so his high ex highest excitement than mine. And like pushing that edge into like, okay, like, let's see, let's see what this is about. And then recognizing through those experiences, like I am so unbelievably turned on by his Pleasure, I don't even need to be in the mix. And it's like so delicious and exciting to me and like I'm a total voyeur so everyone can know that. 2 (1h 14m 37s): But like, you know, we're, we're in the openness of just discovering whatever feels like the most true for us and that's how we navigate about our relationship. And for people who like feel threatened by that, I could totally understand three years ago I would never have been, you know, receptive to a conversation like this or somebody saying that to me. And again, you know, going back to what we said earlier, my desire is always to be the most free. So if I can walk in any room and I know my king is looking at me like the queen of the freaking cosmos and maybe he could think another woman is beautiful, but like I am like, I mean the, the way that he's in love with me cause of the experiences that we've had and and and my, my willingness to enter these spaces that I never would have previously. 2 (1h 15m 26s): Like I know I am the queen of his world and I feel like I have not felt threatened or contracted and to feel that sense of freedom, like sure, like whatever, I'm totally cool, like I'm down for the ride, I'm so excited to experience all of these things with you. Like that's my ultimate goal. Like I always want to be the most free. So, you know, for, for people who may feel very contracted around these kinds of conversations, like if I can be a living embodiment of seeing there's a possibility of something different. And that came with a lot of, that came with having to do a lot of healing work around the wounding that I had. 2 (1h 16m 10s): So I'm not just saying like, jump the gun before you're ready, but you know, if it feels more like an edge rather than something that could be re-traumatizing, like, you know, it it's, it's good to like push our edges a little bit and to see actually how how powerful and like capable we are. But I love I love that you brought that forward just to circle back about the fantasy buffet of like you're just being really honest with each other and that conversation is open and that's so beautiful because most people don't take the time to sit and like make it fun, but to even talk about those things because they're so scared. 0 (1h 16m 49s): Absolutely. And that's, it's so powerful and I think it challenges a lot of preconceived ideas that people do have around having an atypical relationship or like monogamous or, or polyamorous or whatever you wanna call it because they often think that it's reckless or you're out of control or there's no agency involved in it. It's just like, I'm this, I cannot on my urges so I'm just gonna consume whatever is in front of me instead of like, no, there's still boundaries and everyone has different ones. Like there's still bumpers for every relationship. Like you said, you're, you're the gatekeeper of that. And that's how it was with my husband and I as well. I got to say like yes or no to, to whatever was gonna go down. And it's like you are in, in a devoted marriage, I'm in a devoted marriage, I have kids, you want kids. 0 (1h 17m 35s): So it challenges a lot of these beliefs that you can't be both of those things at the same time. Yeah, and for me, I mean I don't know what your experiences, your experience was, but the first time that I, like we had another woman in bed with us, it was like almost the most, like I was super turned on. I also love watching and I was like, I didn't know that I would feel this way cuz I was wildly jealous before. And I was like, right, this is like the most erotic experience I have ever had. It's why 2 (1h 18m 2s): You have the right, 0 (1h 18m 4s): Yeah. And I, but I had never felt more safe or more like, that's my man and like the way he would look at me, even though there's this other beautiful woman there, it was like no threat whatsoever. And we both were playing and it was just like, I can't, you can't really put that connection into words and it's gonna sound crazy to anyone who's maybe on the fence of it and maybe hasn't explored that edge. But it again, it just kind of, it fortified our relationship when a thousand percent and it brought yeah, a new spice into it that I never thought I needed or wanted, but like, holy cow, some, those were some of my favorite experiences. 2 (1h 18m 42s): Right? Yeah. Yeah. And it, it, it brings, so you would think like, is it reckless? Could it cause contraction? Could it cause like all of those things are possible For sure. And also, you know, just as like a, a little bit of a devil's advocate, like in a previous experience where there was not the sense of safety and stability and trust going into something like that where it legitimately like threatened all of my wounding because I did not trust that container in the first place. Like that can be re-traumatizing. So there's like a ca you know, there's a, there's a caveat to it for sure. Like if you're in a relationship where there is like a deep sense of trust, you know, in the dyad, like then, you know, exploring these kinds of things can be super exciting. 2 (1h 19m 29s): And what what it always feels like for us as well is like, like his sense of love and gratitude for me afterwards is so immense. Like he calls it puppy dogging. Like he literally just follows me around. Like, it's like the funniest thing and and also there's like a, in my former life prior to Aubrey, my fear around the other woman and like those like disturbing things I would see in my mind about like what they were doing and how it was happening, like that literally made me wanna die. Like I would, you know, there's a part of me that loved the strip club and then we'd go and I'd come out from the, the bathroom and my, my ex was getting a lap dance and like, I felt like I was going to like poop out my stomach. 2 (1h 20m 14s): Like it was just like, oh my god, that's the worst. But I actually think, I think that you develop very intuitively a kink around the things that you're afraid of. So actually like my excitement around witnessing my partner and their Pleasure, like with another person, like for some reason the thing that I used to be the most afraid of is like one of my greatest excitements. And I think that they're like linked in a way. Like I think that we actually know on an unconscious level that sexual and sexual energy orgasm and Pleasure are actually really purifying to the body. 2 (1h 20m 55s): And if we can actually find how to be like, turned on about the things that we're afraid of, like you probably just are naturally. But I think that there's like a deeper sensing and a deeper knowing there, which is why like same thing, like I'm a total foyer and like I could totally just be the whole time. And I'm like, and I'm so happy and I'm like so turned on and excited and it's like actually like the most exciting thing for me in the experience and then feeling like you're the facilitator of like, and Pleasure for your partner is like the most gratifying and rewarding feeling. And I think there's, I think there's another sense too for like, one thing that I feel with what has happened for Aubrey and I after those experiences is understanding that, you know, men have felt so shamed for their sexuality and there's a lot of toxic masculinity. 2 (1h 21m 53s): I am not condoning all of that. Like I'm, I'm not for my husband who we are in a sacred devoted container and he literally treats me like the queen of the cosmos. One thing that I've witnessed within him after those experiences is he gets to fully express himself in his desire and his sexuality without feeling like his sexuality is, is wrong or rejected or like he's judged for it. Like there is something really healing that happens within him where all of a sudden it feels like his, you know, capacity to be able to just like go into work and just like, like it's like his desire to just like help the world and do his best and all of these things. 2 (1h 22m 40s): Like it amplifies that energy so greatly just because, and it's not because like, oh I got to hit it, I got to hit it with another girl and like, no I got another, you know, girl in my books and like, like it's like not that energy, it's like my queen, my wife, my love, you know, loved me enough to provide this experience where, you know, we, we get to experience the eros with another lover and I get to experience the full Expression of my sexuality without being judged for it. Like it just amplifies something so significant in him. And I think that there's, I think that there's like a big code to that. 2 (1h 23m 20s): And again, I'm not condoning that for everybody. I do not think that this is for everyone but to just have, you know, an open mind and curiosity around like that concept. And I know that can be really difficult for some people to receive because I used to have like a definite, you know, somewhat hatred towards men in my past for all of the, all of the wounding that I had been through. But I think, you know, keeping an open mind to when you're in the container that feels really honest and Authentic and sacred that like it's a really, really beautiful thing to experience in both directions. 0 (1h 23m 56s): I couldn't agree more. I could not agree more. That was amazing. I could talk to you for hours and 2 (1h 24m 2s): I 0 (1h 24m 4s): Entire day so hopefully we can do this again. 2 (1h 24m 7s): Yeah. 0 (1h 24m 8s): But before we sign off, do you wanna tell listeners where they can follow you or any projects you're working on and how they can support you? 2 (1h 24m 16s): Sure. Yeah. You can find me on Instagram at at Vylana. It's V Y L A N A. I have, if you go on the link in my bio, I have Links to all of the podcasts that I've been on. I recently put out an album called Goddess Rise that's all about the full reclamation of our full spectrum radiance as the FeminineWhen. This sort of, you know, internal and external revolution of the FeminineWhen rising of the feminine that's happening. So if you're looking for some empowerment in your day, definitely check that out. I also did a full visual album that accompanies the album, that's a film called Rise of the Goddess that's on YouTube. 2 (1h 24m 59s): It's on YouTube slash Vylana. You can find all of it on my Instagram and my bio, everything that I'm up to. Also on by Vylana dot com. I'm up to a lot this year. So really looking forward to connecting more with with your audience hopefully and a bunch of offerings and other things that I'll be doing in the world. Lots of music coming. 0 (1h 25m 17s): Amazing. Yeah, and I'll link that all below for everyone in the show notes. Thank you so much again, this is incredible. Check out that visual album cuz it is spicy. I loved 2 (1h 25m 26s): It. 0 (1h 25m 26s): It was great. 2 (1h 25m 27s): Thank you Rob. Thank you so much. Amazing. So wonderful to be here. Thank you for having me. 0 (1h 25m 32s): That's it for this week's episode of Chatting with Candace. If you have not left a five star review or it has been a while, please do so. It helps me a ton with charting and showing up in the algorithm. And if you are not hitting like and subscribe, please take a second to do that. If you enjoyed the content, make sure you tell a couple of friends about it. That helps with discoverability and just growing the podcast. It takes all of us. And if you wanna support the podcast, you can go to Chatting with Candice dot com. You can sign up for our Patreon there where you'll get early access to episodes and be able to ask our guests some questions or click that little link that says Buy me a coffee. All of those proceeds go directly back into the podcast. It helps me get all of this beautiful equipment and eventually flying in some guests for in-person interviews. 0 (1h 26m 15s): So thank you so much and I'll see you next time.