Chatting with Candice
Episode Run Time: 35:52
Dr. Shefali is a clinical psychologist, three-time New York Times best-selling author, and CEO of Conscious Coaching Institute. In this episode, she explains new and modern ways far from what we’re used to, Eastern Spirituality, and that it’s okay for boys to cry.
00:00 00:37 Gentle Parenting, Conscious Parenting, Permissive Parenting
02:06 Balance Between Freedom and Unconditional Love
07:20 Struggle With Commitment and Over romanticizing
09:53 Navigating the Trap of Bad Teachers
12:34 Modeling Authenticity
15:19 Concepts of Eastern Spirituality
18:48 “Be Nice” is the Worst Advice
22:19 Connection Before Correction
25:58 Reacting VS Responding
27:35 Authoritarians on Gentle Parenting
29:27 Abuse and That One Comment that Sticks
31:54 Boys Can Cry
33:43 Dr. Shefali’s Favorite Moment
35:07 Where to Find Dr. Shefali
What is Gentle Parenting, Conscious Parenting, and Permissive Parenting?
Conscious parenting encompasses gentle parenting, but it’s not just the focus. The focus is not to be gentle to the child, it’s much more than that. It’s about really understanding the parents’ own ego patterns and how they’re bringing their own unconscious “crap” to the dynamic and how to stop doing their toxic behavior so they can truly meet the needs of the child before them, because that’s what a child needs to flourish and become empowered and successful. Permissive parenting is just negligent parenting; it’s nothing to do with conscious parenting. People think conscious parenting is like permissive parenting because Dr. Shefali talks so much about letting go of this delusion of control but that doesn’t mean you let it go and completely ignore the needs of your children.
Links and Resources
Newly mom of two Candice talks all about parenting with clinical psychologist and NYT best-selling author Dr. Shefali Tsabary.
0 (0s): These automatic empathy statements we make to children. You know, Be, Nice, go hug your grandma. You are so, you're so rude, you're so disrespectful. We just like are thoughtless and unconscious about our judgments and you know, why are we teaching our children that? 2 (20s): Hello everybody. You're listening to Chatting with Candace. I'm your host Candice Horbacz. Before we get into this week's episode, we're gonna do something new. We're gonna do some shout outs really quick. So I wanted to say a quick thank you to Chase B star and crazy for all of those cups of coffee. Thank you so much. I could not do this without all of the support of all of my listeners, so thank you, thank you, thank you. We have two in-person guests actually next week, which is really exciting. So those contributions go directly towards the podcast. So thank you for being such an incredible supporter. We are gonna do a quick shout out to a couple Patreon members. If you want your chance for a shout out, just sign up for the Patreon account or buy a cup of coffee. Both of those things you can do at Chatting with candace.com. 2 (1m 2s): So quick thank you to Aiden, Meredith and Hendrick. Thank you for being a supporter of the podcast. I sincerely appreciate you and if it's been a while, leave a five star review, hit that like and subscribe. I read all of my reviews, the good and the bad. We had it a really nice one by Vinny B, which it was a nice, beautiful, long one sauce ized it really quick. It was, this podcast is very helpful and something really special. I hope more people check it out and can grow from it. Thank you so much Vinny. The best way for this podcast to to grow is to share it and to leave a five star review. Those things help with the algorithm. So yeah, if you haven't done it in a while or you haven't done it at all, hit like subscribe and leave that five star review. 2 (1m 45s): Okay, all of that is done. Thank you so much this week. I am ecstatic. We have Dr. Shefali and I have been consuming her content for years now. I came across her material when we first had our oldest and Dr. Shefali is a clinical psychologist from Columbia University. She specializes in the integration of psychology and Eastern philosophy and she's created this whole movement around Conscious Parenting and how to do the work on yourself so that you can change yourself, change your family, and eventually change society and culture. That's my interpretation of it. Oprah has even endorsed Dr. Cali's groundbreaking work and Conscious Parenting. 2 (2m 26s): So I mean if she is, she's on Oprah's radar, she should be on everyone's radar. Please help me welcome the incredible Dr. Shefali. So Dr. Shefali, I am so excited to have you here. I've been following your work for a really long time as like a new mom of two when we first had our oldest, we downloaded your Parenting course and we were like, how do we be the best parents and do the le like least amount of damage as possible? And I think your evolution as a creator and as a doctor online has just been really beautiful and the amount of vulnerability that you've had with like your own personal journey is really commendable. So thank you. 2 (3m 6s): Thank you for making the time to come here today. 0 (3m 8s): I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me. 2 (3m 11s): So I guess let's jump straight into Parenting and it's like we see a lot of trends when it comes to Gentle Parenting. Is there a big difference between Gentle Parenting and Conscious Parenting and then what is Permissive Parenting? 0 (3m 27s): Yeah, so Conscious Parenting of course encompasses Gentle Parenting, but it's not just the focus. The focus is not to be gentle to the child, it's much more than that. It includes that, but it's much more than that. It's about really understanding the parents' own ego patterns and how they're bringing their own unconscious crap really to the dynamic and how to stop doing that so they can truly meet the needs of the child before them. Because that's what a child needs to flourish to become empowered and successful. And Permissive parenting is just negligent parenting, you know, it's nothing to do with Conscious Parenting. 0 (4m 9s): People think Conscious Parenting is like Permissive Parenting because I talk of so much about letting go of this delusion of control, but that doesn't mean you let it go and now you're just, you know, doing sex drugs and rock and roll, you know, and completely ignoring the needs of your children. So you know, it's a deep philosophy and that's what I talk about in this book. It's a very, it's a movement really. It's a revolution in how we raise our children and this book is really 20 steps on the how to do this, right? 2 (4m 40s): So when it comes to the idea of control, I think a lot of us have that when it comes to either our partners or our kids and there's like this idea of ownership and I'm going to like carve you into the perfect spouse or the perfect child and it's totally discounting like their Authenticity and their path when it comes to that. I guess where's, where do you find the balance between freedom and what one, one might call Unconditional love, which is like, I accept all of you and I accept your decisions. Whether or not you tolerate that I think is a different discussion versus this is conditional love and I only love you so long as you are providing all of these things as a husband or you're getting straight A's or you are not having a temper tantrum. 2 (5m 25s): I guess where is the bound between letting your child grow into their, their own authentic self and then you superimposing your will onto them? 0 (5m 33s): Yeah, well it's one really easy clear difference between Unconditional love and you know, providing guidance is around, you know, safety around things that are, if you're going to eat 12 cookies, that's not safe for your health. If you're, if you're not going to have a shower for 25 days, that's, you know, it's not life threatening but it's not ideal for your safe quote safety, right? So I talk about in this book the Parenting map, the difference between life enhancing boundaries and ego enhancing boundaries. Now if I ask you to please cut your hair in a barb because that makes me feel like you look amazing in a barb, is that really for your safety and for your life or is it because for my ego, you understand if I ask you to play the trumpet 16 times a week, is that for my ego? 0 (6m 23s): Is it really for sure for your life versus if I ask you to go to school now given that we live in this form-based world, going to school is a requirement. Is that really for my ego? Is it really for you? So yes, I will have to push you to go to school and do it in a way that's Gentle, that's loving, that creates a buy-in and a partnership. I'll work on that but I'll be resolute about that boundary because it's for your inherent for sure objective, good wellbeing versus go to school and get a grades that we can negotiate on. You can get some Bs, you can get him in a C, you can get some As. We don't need to be rigid about that. So it's very easy to see it when you think about life enhancing boundaries or ego enhancing boundaries. 0 (7m 9s): And most of the time we are instituting ego enhancing boundaries. You know, you will talk to these people, you will practice so many times a week, you will do these hobbies, you will go to this school, you will look like this. Those are all for my ego, they're not necessarily for the child's and life. So once we separate that out, you know, then it becomes easy. You know, then whether you become a piano player or a trumpet player is not so much of my concern as much as are you doing things that are enhancing your life? 2 (7m 41s): So I've heard you talk about the piano lessons and there was like this clip that was going viral and it was like, well I don't wanna play piano either cuz it's like really difficult, something like that to like surmise it and I was like, yeah, I think it's really great to not force your own hobbies onto your kid or like force them to do something that they genuinely don't have interest in. So what's the difference between that and then also just kind of like letting your kid not commit to things because it is a f a a fine dance, like fine balance of you did make a commitment to something so you have to see it through to X and then we just don't have to renew that agreement. Or I guess like, yeah. So how do you, how do you distinguish between those two things? 0 (8m 19s): Well first we kind of, when they're starting young, you wait to see what is a match for their temperament, right? Don't shove them into things that you think are, they're going to be good at at four or five. Let's wait a little bit. You know, we've gotten into this habit of shoving children into activities so young and then don't sign them up for it to be a career, right? Like do it few months at a time, you're dealing with a child, not an adult. Children have a right to go in and out of activities. This is not about teaching commitment. Technically when I was growing up I didn't even have anything signed up. It was just hobbies. You go class by class week by week and then you drop it. So we've gotten very industrialized and mechanistic of in terms of how we treat our children and we create our problems because children are not ready to commit to long-term activities at a young age. 0 (9m 12s): Then as they grow older, sure you can tell them, listen we signed up for three months, we gotta finish it. But before you even sign up you bring in their buy-in, right? You negotiate a win-win situation where you are winning and they are winning. So now they've bought in and if you buy in with them and they're truly doing something, they'll do it for three months but don't sign up for three years, right? So we set them up for these impossible commitments that they're not ready to to make at that young age. I mean look at us adults, we don't make commitments. We are dropping out of the gym, we're getting out of marriages and friendships. So in the same way we have to have realistic expectations and not impose our standards onto them. 2 (9m 53s): No, that's a really good point. Would to push back a little, would you say that maybe the reason that a lot of people do struggle with commitment, whether like even to themselves, right? Like I'm going to eat healthier this year. Like I know that eating this processed junk is not good for me but, and I'm gonna make a big change and then you don't, don't stick to that. Do you think that's because we didn't have that modeled for us or because I know for me and I, it's through a lot of your work too, it's like un Parenting how we've been Parenting, right? And then like becoming the better and eventually hopefully best version of ourself. But I didn't have a parent, I was kind of like a feral free range baby. So I didn't have anyone that was like, you signed up for violin, you need to stick with it, you signed up for Spanish, you need to stick with it. 2 (10m 38s): And now looking back I'm like I really wish that someone had taught me some more discipline with some of that stuff because then I would be able to have these skills that I do value now as an adult I'm like, I wish I could play an instrument that'd be beautiful. I wish I was bilingual, I think that's beautiful but I didn't have the, that structure growing up. So now it's, yeah 0 (10m 55s): But don't, but I do think you may be right maybe over simplifying, oh if I had had that I would speak 20 languages. You don't know. You don't know what else you would've had that you don't have right now. So let's not romanticize and and you know, instead let's accept because imagine if you did have the discipline but then you were ashamed but then you were beaten, you know, sure you would be forced into learning three languages but you were ashamed. You see, so don't over romanticize or oversimplify what you wish you had gotten. Let me tell you, you are doing this podcast, you are very committed. You know why you're committed because it's what makes sense for you now it matches who your you are in your essence. 0 (11m 41s): Nobody's making you show up on time for me. You showed up on time, you are available, you're present, you've got your notes. Guess what? That was you right? Somehow you found it within yourself. So it is with our children and what I teach in this book, the Parenting map is for parents to align with who it is the children are and then encourage them through their own self knowing to find activities that they like and the closer it is to who they are in essence, the more committed they will be and allow that to unfold a little bit more slowly, more naturally so that it is sustainable so that it does feel like the child is owning it rather than we are imposing it on them. 2 (12m 26s): Hey everyone, this is new. So we are taking a quick break for a couple of sponsors. How exciting is that that we have a couple sponsors for the podcast. So this is new, please don't skip it, just listen, it's cool stuff I promise. So my first one is a small company called Ragnar's Rocks and I'll make sure I have the link below. As you know I love crystals and I get made fun of for it all of the time, but I'm, I'm not gonna change my ways and I'm gonna stand by it. I truly believe in them and I think that they're beautiful so sue me. But he sent me, I mean how incredible is that? He sent me this beautiful amethyst, I've got this really cute rose quartz skull. 2 (13m 8s): All this is on my table you can't see but it, when I start doing two cameras you'll be able to see my little setup and this cute little crystal Buddha, how adorable is he? I these bracelets are from there. I mean I was really stoked to have him as a sponsor because this is right up my alley. So if you're into any crystals or you just wanna check out the website, it's wagner's rocks.com and I'll link that below And the last affiliate last sponsor, please don't skip, this one's a good one. So we all know the benefits of fasting. Well my husband and I have used this company ProLon actually a couple of times. So I was really excited that they wanted to be an affiliate, a podcast. 2 (13m 50s): So if you wanna try ProLon, it's a fasting mimicking diet so you get all the benefits of a water fast and it's a lot easier cuz you get this delicious food instead of having to completely eat nothing. So you can try ProLon for $150 with the code. Candace, some of the claims for, and I mean I say claims but I'm going off of a script guys, 60% of people that completed the fast had better energy, mental clarity and focus. You'll definitely shed some lbs. I felt a ton lighter after doing it. It's cool to do difficult stuff and obviously fasting is not easy so it's kind of cool to see how you can kind of push it and get through something that you thought you might not be able to do. 2 (14m 32s): It's a lot easier than just doing a water cleanse. And again, like you, I think the average here, yeah people lose an average of 5.7 pounds and 1.6 inches off of their waistline. So soon as I'm done breastfeeding, I'm doing one of these and Eric's supposed to be starting anytime now, so we'll see when he decides to start. So I'll link that below Again if you wanna try ProLon, you can try it for 150 bucks. Use code Candace and let's return to the episode. So when it comes down to like your essence and your Authenticity, you've spoken about how institutions can kind of crush that and suffocate that and whether that institution is traditional marriage, whether that institution is education, like you have these systems all around you and a lot of them seem to be unavoidable like education. 2 (15m 21s): We do have some, you know, private schools that provide some kind of options but that's not accessible to everybody. So how do you navigate that Trap almost? Because if you are in a situation where you only have one public school and that's the only option and then maybe you get stuck with a bad teacher that you see is just not whole and complete in themselves and then that is being kind of projected onto the children, right? Like don't focus too much on art because you'll never be an artist or artists don't make any money. So like this class doesn't matter, just like these really awful things to tell this young blossoming child. So how do you navigate that Trap when it feels like you don't have a third rail or a third option? 0 (16m 1s): Well you know, you accept, you you not everybody can have 25 private schools at their disposal and we live in this world so we teach our children, you know, to manage within this world. I mean what to do. We are not living in an ideal place. Most of us don't have ideal situations and I teach that like let go of the form based realities. Like it doesn't matter what school you send them to, of course it does, ideally it would but don't stress on that you at home capitalize on the power you do have and at home you know let them know that at school they focus on grades and they stress you out. But at home, let me tell you, this is not that important. 0 (16m 43s): What's important is that you know who it is you are. That you are, you believe you are loved, you are worthy, right? You we cannot create a magical fairy tale for our children. That is not the goal of Conscious Parenting. The goal of Conscious Parenting is to teach our children that no matter what life throws at them, they're going to be okay because they are worthy and empowered from within. And that's what I teach in this book is how can parents help their children feel worthy and empowered to handle life's imperfections? Because life is imperfect. It's not about finding the right meat or finding the right pair of shoes or finding the right school. No, it's about feeling right within you so that you take that sense of rightness wherever you go. 0 (17m 25s): And it doesn't matter what life is in life is not perfect and there's no way I will ever help parents find the perfect situation because there is none. It's about accepting imperfection and knowing that you are empowered to handle the imperfection because you're resilient. 2 (17m 42s): So when it comes to Modeling that Authenticity and creating an environment for them to be resilient, how do you help parents unpack who like they themselves are answering that fundamental question? Who am I? Because I just did this exercise with one of my teachers just yesterday, which I found to be like the timing of this was so perfect and the homework was like who do you think you are? And I did what I imagine a lot of your, you know, your fans and your viewers do as well, which is identify with roles. Like I wrote down, I'm a mom, I'm a wife, I'm a podcaster, I'm this and he's just sitting there with a smile and shaking and he's like you just described doing like you, that's what Candace is doing. 2 (18m 24s): That's not who you are. So how do you get down and like peel that onion back to who am I? 0 (18m 29s): Right? And that takes a very consistent wisdom practice. My work integrates Eastern, Spirituality and western psychology for that reason that the western world is so consumed by the doing that we are forgetting the forest for the trees. We are just always focused on the next achievement, on the next obstacle, on the next trophy. And we are not focused that on the fact that our children are just through their beingness whole and worthy. They don't need to prove it. But we've gotten so off track that we've been raising children to feel like they need to prove themselves constantly versus be who it is they are and then do but outta being not do because they are not being right. 0 (19m 14s): The doing cannot replace the being. But we don't focus on that enough in childhood. And because we don't focus on that enough in childhood, our children are left thinking, okay, what is the next doing? What else can I do? And we are just craving and seeking the next doing and it'll never feel good enough because only a connection to the being is ever sturdy enough to hold us through life. And that's what Eastern, Spirituality teaches is how do you stay connected to the, I am not the, I am a mother, I am a child, I am a podcaster. Just the I am, I am fully ready, whole fulfilled and empowered just as I am. 0 (19m 60s): It's a very powerful shift that can only come with the cultivation of, of wisdom. Somebody who is hearing this goes, oh my god, I've been in the doing, I need to go and find my I am. And the way to do that really is to go on a journey with a therapist, go for meditation. You have to really cut the cords to the external world to a degree, to refocus back on ourselves. 2 (20m 25s): No, I think that's great advice. Y my homework for that was at some point this week I have to pick a busy day and cancel everything and not do anything. He's like, you cannot do anything. And then just see who shows up because you get stuck in this Trap of trying to like conquer and earn and advance and we get stuck. I was, I don't know if you're familiar with Emily Fletcher, she, yeah, so she was talking in one of her meditation courses about like how we just kind of go to the gym with this one thing and we're like, dude do do conquer, conquer, conquer. And then on the other side we have this like intuition and curiosity and creativity and Spirituality that is just aing on the other side because we're just neglecting ha like quite literally half of our brain and that half of of creation by thinking that action is the only thing that matters. 0 (21m 13s): Exactly. And you know that assignment is so beautiful because it'll teach you to feel complete just as you are. And that is the key. And once you can get in touch with that and stay married to that, then whether you get a compliment, whether you get rejected, you get the raise, you get the job promotion, all of that is extra, but it's not going to crush you because you've already established that I'm good enough without anything. I'm good enough on my own without a relationship, I'm good enough without my child, I'm good enough without the trophy now what you're gonna take away from me. So then life becomes what they call Lila play, which is everything is for fun now, now I'm just having fun through this journey called life. 0 (22m 1s): Whereas with the old mentality that is your life, it's not I'm having fun with my life, I'm playing with my life that is my life and that is a what, what is called Maya an illusion. So we have to learn these Concepts of Eastern Spirituality in order to empower yourself. 2 (22m 19s): No, I, I 100% agree. I think that, I mean I get really excited when I see this mass interest accumulating of Spirituality. You can't go to a store without like them having at least a little section off into like whether it's like crystals or books or meditation. And I think like that's a, a beautiful first step for a lot of people is connecting to something that's bigger than them and having an idea that there is something bigger than them. 0 (22m 44s): Yes, yes. And that, and when parents get that and many parents whose children are threatened by a life disease like a terminal illness or they themselves are, they get that. Why do we wait for that in order to teach us that? Listen, you know, I don't care about the grades. I'm so sorry I yelled at you because you didn't eat your carrots. You know, you came home 30 minutes late. I get it, I get it. I'm so glad you are alive. And I know that seems so simple and life is not so simple, but life is that simple. If we can just focus on wellbeing, on our connection, on presence, on simplicity on the here and now, then like I said, first connect to all that, then you can add on the harp, the flute, the mountain skiing, the travel to you know, a fancy nation after you have established that we are good enough, we're happy in this moment. 0 (23m 40s): We don't need people to define us. We don't need achievements to define us. Now that child raised by that parent would be a very different child than the one who is trained to move from achievement to achievement. 2 (23m 53s): Yeah, I I again, I agree entirely. There was, there was this part of an interview to you that you did with Jay Shetty and you were talking about it was the worst piece of advice that you had was to Be Nice. And I loved that so much. It made me think recently I was setting up a play date with my son and we like went out to breakfast and we live in a smaller town where, you know, everyone knows everyone. So we go in and they're like, oh hey, what are you doing today? And I was like, oh, we set up a play date and the waitress leaned in and she's like, well make sure that you are nice, that you play nice. And I was like, whoa, okay. Like we're still doing that. So I waited till she left and I was like, listen, you get to experience people how you experience them. 2 (24m 36s): So if you're experiencing someone and then that invites you to, you know, show up nice, then that's beautiful. If they're showing up as something that makes you have to establish a boundary, then you're allowed to do that too. Like you're allowed to not Be Nice, you know what I mean? Like I just thought that was so crazy. So I was so excited when you said that. And I think for some reason a lot of us still think that no matter what we, we don't have to respect ourself or our boundaries. Like we, what matters most is how other people think of us. Like is my kid gonna show up and be the nice kid or is he gonna be the one that's a pro a quote problem? And I just, I don't know, it just really was surprising to me. 0 (25m 13s): Yeah, these are these automatic empathy statements we make to children. You know, Be, Nice, go hug your grandma. You are so, you're so rude, you are so disrespectful. We just like are thoughtless and unconscious about our judgments and you know, why are we teaching our children that? Because it makes us anxious, right? The waitress was first just running on autopilot, she wasn't even really thinking. And then secondly, we want people around us to Be Nice because it makes us feel nice, it makes us feel good. It's much easier to handle, you know? But being authentic can be uncomfortable, like laying a boundary, saying no walking away saying I don't wanna play with you teaching our children to be authentic and ruffle feathers and or make us feel really embarrassed or like we have been a failure. 0 (26m 1s): We've raised such a disrespectful child. But in the long run it'll help our children so much more if they're trained to be authentic versus then just plain old. Nice. So you know, we have to think about how we communicate with our children, what we're exactly telling them. Because sometimes we just roll out these these very, you know, simplistic ways of talking and, and then we get angry when our children are quote unquote not nice, right? We're upset with them, we're genuinely upset because we felt that being nice was the only standard. And being nice is not the only standard. It's never the only standard. There's sometimes you can't Be Nice in life. Sometimes you have to be rude, sometimes you have to be good or sometimes somebody can interpret you that way even though you haven't done that. 0 (26m 46s): So it's okay, you know, children, you know automatically when they come home from school, the par are are used to getting their parents lecture them that they were not attentive, they were nice to the teacher. You know, very rarely do we take our children's side when it comes to issues with especially teachers, right? We typically blame the child because we are so embarrassed. But sometimes it's okay to say, you know, yeah, I can see why you're upset with the teacher. I can see why she wasn't exactly very kind and I understand, you know, just that validates the child. So it doesn't make the child feel like they are always the problem. And we ty typically do this to children. 2 (27m 26s): I think it's so important that they understand that someone's in their corner, especially at a very young age because I see that a lot, even with my oldest, he's only like three and a half. And there's moments where if like someone wrongs him on the playground or something, the first thing he's doing is like, do you are, do you seeing this? Am I alone in this? And like sometimes I have to intervene as I'm sure most parents know the playground is a very wild place. But he does look for that. Like, am I alone or do I have my tribe here? And I think that if you do have a situation where they're in school and maybe you know, someone's not showing up how they should be, that it, you have your kids back. 0 (28m 1s): Exactly. And it doesn't take much. It's not about indulging your children or creating entitled brats. It's just about saying, I hear you, I understand your perspective, I see you, I got your back and now let's handle the situation in a Conscious way. Just always to let your children know you have their back. I mean that is huge for a young child who's anyway so dominated by adults who's so, you know, given the child's status, the lesser than status and who feels so dependent and helpless. So these are the ways we can empower our children that you know, what you feel is legit. I hear you, we can correct them later, but let's first connect to them. 0 (28m 45s): And we always forget in our haste to make it right and to feel good about ourselves, we typically move to correcting before connecting. And I always say that a fundamental premise that I teach in this book, the Parenting map, is how do you connect before you correct 2 (29m 2s): And then repair, right? Which is huge. And I think so many of us skip over, I know for me it was like there was forget connection. Like that didn't happen. It was a quick Correction and then repair would show up in like a pretty unhealthy way as like, let me go take you shopping instead of having a talk and emotionally reconnecting or like explaining kind of what happened and how to move forward from that. It's like, let's gloss over this. We'll go shopping like nev nothing ever happened. And I think a lot of us maybe want to do that because the repair requires a certain amount of vulnerability and maybe ro like admitting to wrongdoing on our end. So I've realized, realized like how unnatural it is for me because if I show up in a way that I'm like, man, that was not a great mom right there, that's not how I want to to mother. 2 (29m 48s): So I'll have to get down on his level and be like, you know, mama shouldn't have just yelled at you like that. That was my own stuff and I'm sorry and you didn't deserve that. And like it sometimes is hard for me to say I'm sorry to a toddler. I'm like, what is that about? Like that just shows how much I, I am not willing to be vulnerable with myself in that moment. So it's, it's crazy how insidious some of this stuff is. 0 (30m 12s): 100% and it's not even to say sorry, it's even deeper than that, right? It's to own it, to then do the work to go why did I bloody lose my temper like a fool. What is going on in me? Why am I so insecure? And then to heal that, that showed up, that wound that showed up in that moment because of that situation with your toddler. That's the real work. It's not just to say sorry, it's now to show up in a different way. And if you're re currently stressed out and losing your mind to definitely alter that so that you can change the pattern. But yes, it's in incredibly provocative for parents to do that work. 0 (30m 54s): And that's what I teach in this book. The Parenting map is all about that. It's what are you doing that is dysfunctional? How can you change your patterns so you can connect with your children completely differently. 2 (31m 6s): So do you feel like in those moments where you feel that parents are Reacting instead of Responding and you're kind of checked off, you're on autopilot, maybe your kid just drew all over the wall and you just start screaming like it's the end of the world. I've heard that in those moments that it's almost you going back to childhood where you maybe have done something very similar and then you're almost Responding how a caregiver responded to you in that moment. So it's not even like your disapproval of that action, it's almost going back to when you were a kid and then in that caregiver's disapproval of that action, 0 (31m 41s): Right? It's so automatic, right? Our responses to our children are so robotic and reactive, you know, because we may have been shamed for something and because we had to suppress a part of ourselves in childhood is very, very typical that when we see that part showing up in our children, our instinct is to suppress that and to clamp it down and go, don't do that. Because in our, in our vestiges of our memory, we have this injunction that's bad, take it down, don't do that anymore. So it's very natural, but most people don't even realize that they are operating out of robotic autopilot. 0 (32m 26s): We really do think it's the bad child and that's where things need to break because that is wh why children feel guilty and feel ashamed because they imbibe this feeling that they are bad and it's not, not sometimes it's just the parent overreacting from their 2 (32m 43s): Childhood. So when it comes to the like the gravity of who is the one that is like Modeling for the kids and obviously this is geared like your book is geared towards parents and how to show up consciously and do the work on yourself. What's the role of other caregivers or grandparents that are not doing this work or maybe disagree with this kind of Parenting and Conscious Parenting in general. Like they're more of like that authoritarian, like very iron fist kind of parent. So we have some people in our lives like this and we don't leave them alone with the kids because I'm like, I don't know how you're gonna show up if he does something that you think isn't okay. And I just don't like, they're just too young for that. 2 (33m 23s): So what is your advice to parents who maybe don't have that collective agreement within like their tribe and their family? 0 (33m 30s): Yeah, I love that. You know, don't leave your children with abusive or potentially abusive people. Limit the interaction. Learn to have boundaries. You owe it to your children to protect them. You can't send them to a, you know, a den of violent people, right? You can't put them in that situation and expect your child to defend themselves. So number one, number two, you also can't micromanage every human being either. So you know, if people are not terribly abusive, but you need them in your life. Say your uncle comes once in a while or the grandmother, but she's a little bit toxic but not terribly violent. You teach your child, you know, that's just grandma, she grew up in a different time, you know, have you seen her grandmother? 0 (34m 11s): They come, you know, they come like this, don't take it personally. So they are valuable lessons to learn. But again, it's about safety. If it crosses a boundary and it violates the person's sense of safety, you need to jump in and cut the court and create that strong boundary because it's not for the child to create that boundary for themselves. 2 (34m 33s): Yeah. Until they're, they have the tools to do so. So I guess maybe there's not an answer for this, but I don't know if you've heard there's this joke that this comedian has and he talks about his Parenting and then when he has an awareness that he did something he shouldn't do, he's like, well is this gonna be the thing that doesn't make her an astronaut anymore? Like is this gonna be like this fight or this way that I shout it like shouted or did a timeout when I shouldn't have, is this gonna be the thing that, you know, like breaks her, creates that tra like that permanent trauma or like semi-permanent trauma? So when it comes to that, I like that sense of worry I guess. Like where are the bounds? Cuz cuz it, I feel like sometimes when you have that internal voice and you do meditation or you do the work, you'll be like, oh the one time my mom said I hate the way that you sing and now I don't sing at all. 2 (35m 22s): So what is gonna be, it could be that one thing. So it doesn't necessarily have to be like that physical violent abuse, like abuse. It could be one disparaging comment that just Sticks. 0 (35m 32s): Yeah. And you know, on one hand one thing is not enough, on another hand one thing could be the one thing. So we don't know and it's okay, you can't be perfect. Typically though it's not just one thing. Typically you see if somebody is vulnerable to one thing means they've been already been chipping away a hundred times before. Now if it's one like life changing thing, like a rape or you know they've been locked up in a room for 16 hours, yeah if it's something very extreme that could break somebody. But typically a one off comment is not going to be the camel, you know, the the straw that broke the camel's back. 0 (36m 12s): It has to be hundreds of things before that. Then one comment can be the last one comment, unless it's a very extreme thing, you know? And if it's a very extreme thing, it won't be a one-off thing anyway. If somebody's capable of such an extreme thing, typically they've done many other microaggressions. Now if it's something traumatic, like a cyclone, a hurricane, an earthquake, life threatening disease or a rape, now that could be a traumatic one. Big T, you know, big T thing. So it all depends on, you know, the intensity, the severity, the chronicity, the perpetuity, consistency, the temperament of the child. 0 (36m 52s): Some children break easily, some children are more stalwart and resilience. So it depends. 2 (36m 59s): No, that is a huge relief. We were recently visiting my 90 year old grandmother and she's from Japan, just a very different culture. And my little one was crying like he like fell and like hit his knee or something. He was crying and she's like, oh cry baby cry baby. Like boys don't cry. And I was like, 0 (37m 19s): Ah. Like 2 (37m 20s): Oh no, oh no. So again, taking him outside and being like, you're allowed to cry. You are allowed to have like feelings and emotions and express yourself and like this idea that just cuz you're a boy doesn't mean that you have to shut down your heart or like your expression. And it just shows like how important it is to do the work. And by the end of the trip she took me aside and was like, I just wanna let you know I talked to your dad this morning and I apologized to him for how I showed up as a mom because I've been seeing you and you just allowing him to be free and to play just made me really realize how much I didn't give that to him. And I was like, whoa, that is huge. 2 (38m 3s): because that wasn't even my intention, it just showed up. And like you don't even realize the ripple effect of doing this work and what it's gonna do for everyone around you. 0 (38m 12s): Right? It's not amazing. Like she was never exposed to something that broke her conditioning and she was wise enough and observant enough to allow it. And that's why I do this work because you never know how somebody's going to transform themselves. Not everyone's going to be changed and transformed, but you never know where the next transformation is going to come from. That's why all we we can do is do the work ourselves and then you know, hopefully there will be a ripple effect out into the world. But it's a beautiful thing when that happens because you are healing others simply by healing yourself. 2 (38m 49s): That's so true. I guess before we start wrapping up, is there a favorite moment that you've had in any of your courses or live events of someone sharing a story that you were like, wow, this is just really touching my heart. 0 (39m 3s): You know, I don't have one, but just overall I can tell you the reason I do this work and it's not easy because I'm breaking down parents' defenses, which is very hard to break. But the reason I keep doing this work is because I'll hear you or a parent, a mom, a child, come and tell me, wow, things have changed in my house since Conscious Parenting came into the house. Thank you for the work you do because this work is life changing, it's game changing and it is. So that's why I do the work because overall it's a resounding, constant echo of people who are literally blown away by how their entire relationship with their children change and how then their children change in the house because of this work. 0 (39m 48s): So this book again is 20 steps, the How to Parenting Map. It's written after decades of experience at my clinical psychologist. I work with people, this is the approach I use to help parents break down what they need to do, how they need to stop the conflict, stop the arguing, stop the dysfunction, and really create an environment of peace and empowerment with their children. 2 (40m 13s): Incredible. So do you wanna tell the listeners where they can follow you and where they can get your book and I'll make sure I link it all below as well? 0 (40m 21s): Yes. So they can find me at dr Shefali dot com, dr Shefali dot com. On my website I have a coaching Institute. I coach people to become coaches like I am and help other parents, which is a phenomenal online course. I have also many other courses. And on Instagram it's doctors spelled out D O C T O r, Shefali. So hopefully people will find me read this book, it's called the Parenting Map, and begin to change Families, one parent at a Time. 2 (40m 51s): Absolutely incredible. This was amazing and it was so nice me meeting you. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. 0 (40m 58s): Of course. Thank you so much. 2 (41m 0s): And that's it for this week's episode of Chatting with Candace. Before you leave, hold the phone, don't exit out yet yet. Leave that five star review, hit like and subscribe wherever you are watching or listening. And if you wanna support the podcast, there's some Links below where you can go to my Patreon, buy me a cup of coffee and some affiliates of the podcast, these affiliates that I use and I support and I endorse. So check them out and that helps us at a 10. I'll see you next week. Bye everybody.