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April 12, 2023

#80 Brian Sanders - The Dark Side of Nutrition

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 Chatting with Candice
 Brian Sanders
 Episode Run Time: 1:29:11

Brian Sanders is a filmmaker, podcaster, and founder and CEO of Sapien, a health education company as well as a Health Coach at Evolve Healthcare. He works to debunk myths and false ideas surrounding food, diet, and the culture of food for men and women.

00:00:00 00:02:13 When Did Food Become so Political?
 00:05:24 The Campaign Against Red Meat and Sugar
 00:09:34 Animal Studies on Rats VS Humans
 00:13:21 Debunking Calorie Deficit
 00:24:21 How to Target Visceral Fat
 00:27:22 Inflammation Markers and Diets for Females
 00:33:11 Removing One Food Group From a Diet
 00:35:06 Gut Tests
 00:42:13 Lectins and Oxalates in Food
 00:47:55 Nutrition in Pregnancy
 00:52:40 All About Liver and Organ Meat
 01:00:29 Ikigai and Living With Communities and Parents
 01:05:52 Meditation Practices
 01:09:54 The Sapiens Diet and Going Nutrients-Dense
 01:18:14 Carbs, Fat, and Cholesterol
 01:22:45 Longevity
 01:25:11 Raw Dairy
 01:27:43 Where to Find Brian

Debunking Calorie Deficit and Targeting Visceral Fat

Most people want to lose weight, but it’s always a question of whether they want to lose weight or if they want to lost fat. And in the process of losing weight, mindset also plays a very important role. Contrary to popular belief, calorie deficit isn’t always the way go because in the process, you lose protein, nutrients, and eventually muscle. Losing fat is a battle of hunger; everyone wants to eat less but why can’t we all just eat less? And According to Dr. Sean O’Mara the best way to losing visceral fat is eliminating process food, sprinting, and lifting weights. 

The Right Diet

The Sapiens diet is not down one path. It’s not paleo, keto, carnivore, or Whole30, it’s somewhere in between and based on ancestral health. It’s all about what works, what doesn’t, and why. A lot of it comes down to nutrient density for a diet to work long-term. It’s protein, nutrients, amino acids, vitamins, minerals, and energy. Your body doesn’t need a name, but it needs nutrients and the correct amount of energy from fat and carbs. 

Links and Resources




Filmmaker, podcaster, and health coach Brian Sanders goes nerdy on diet culture and the myths and truths behind food and losing weight.

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0 (0s): Brian, it's awesome to have you here. You made it here straight from the airport and then you just did south by. So I seriously appreciate the energy coming in. I, like I said earlier, I'd had to go to the hotel room and like take a breather so we have all the biohacking stuff in the background ready to go. 1 (15s): Oh yeah, I'm all ready to go. I did my little pre, pre-interview routine straight from the airport. I'm, I'm ready to go. 0 (23s): So you said that this is a role reversal that you were just bringing all your equipment, you've been filming Food Lies. Is that done yet or almost done? I know you said you were kind of like shopping it. 1 (35s): Yeah, it's been six years. We're done filming supposedly, but we always keep adding things. We did 10 interviews in 10 days. That ended two weeks ago. So I got back from that and then did South by for another 10 days. And then I came here the day after South 0 (50s): By has the, I guess, feedback been so far with the film because when I saw it I was like, this is not like any, anything anyone's doing right now. And it's like Contrary to like a lot of the popular evidence and we can definitely get into like all the research that you're doing. I saw this video clip where you were saying how cows are actually like saving the planet and they're good for the planet. I was like, no one is saying that and just Debunking all of these common myths around diet. 1 (1m 13s): Yeah, I actually spoke at a food industry conference that was a plant-based conference and I was the only one. and why presentation that maybe the one you're talking about was why we should be eating more Meat, not less. Well I've done multiple presentations. I said, yeah, cows are saving the world, which they are. If you raise them properly, they actually, you know, help the soil. They put carbon back in the soil. There's a lot of benefits to them. Plus they provide great Nutrition for Humans. So yes, very against the mainstream narrative. I mean that's why it's called Food Lies, right? I have to go against all these lies we've been told for the past, I don't know, a hundred years, maybe more in the last 50 years. And it's turned into my life's work. I quit everything I was doing, quit my job six years ago. 1 (1m 54s): I've been doing this full-time and just trying to make this six-part series to show the world what real Nutrition is, what are Humans supposed to eat, where do we come from? Why everything that they've been told is almost backwards. I feel like a lot of the world these days is sort of backwards. Yeah. Upside down worlds. Yeah. 0 (2m 14s): So where or When, Did, Food. Become. so Political, because that's the thing when you start researching diet as you just see how much politics and identity is around it. So I, the timing of this podcast is quite literally perfect. So one of my best friends is going through like a really tough health issue right now. Like she's in and outta the hospital. She's been vegan for most of her, I don't maybe like the last seven years. And I've always kinda like nudged her to like, she'd get drunk and I'd make her eat like bone broth and she'd be like, oh, this is so good. And then be like pissed afterwards. But now she's dealing with all of these health issues. She can't even drink broth right now. She's so sick. And I sent her your videos, I sent you the, the debunked, a couple of your clips and I just kind of put it out there and I was like, I think you really need to introduce animal proteins into your, your diet. 0 (2m 59s): So that's going on with that side of like my relationships personally, I've, so I've had Graves Disease, I was diagnosed like 10 years ago, which is hyperthyroid autoimmune disorder. And then with my second it flipped. So now I've Hashimoto's and I'm navigating that. What I think is so interesting is almost every new age doctor that's kind of removed themselves from the establishment, the first thing they tell me to do is up my Red Meat intake. And I think that's so fascinating. But again, they're, they're not part of the conglomerate. Like they're very much the out outliers on that. 1 (3m 32s): Well it sounds like you found some good doctors, so 0 (3m 34s): Congrats. Yeah. Are you seeing that shift with your work? Like you're getting people that saw like maybe debunked and they're, you know, revoking a vegan lifestyle or they're saying this sounds like me. Well, 1 (3m 46s): So Game Changers debunked. Yeah. That, so Game Changers came out, what was it, two or three years ago and it was a big be vegan film. There was all these athletes claiming that they were doing great when actually a lot of them weren't doing great and dropped out or you know, got injured or even dropped out of the film. We actually interviewed one of the athletes, Tim, she who was called the vegan prince, and he just completely left Veganism, left the film. They kept trying to get him back in the film and then he filmed with me. I mean this wasn't like a big film, we just put it out on YouTube so people couldn't find it. It, it was kind of just a fun project to, to debunk all the vegan stuff while I was making my main film. 1 (4m 26s): But I don't know, I don't think it's coming to the mainstream yet. I don't think this information is ready for the worlds. There's too many big industries, big money, big food companies, big governments, even even the W H O, I feel like the w h O is very anti-me and that they have this agenda and there there's a bigger agenda and so I don't think this is gonna go mainstream, but it's finding a cult falling lately. So I think that's what you're finding and it's great that you've found these doctors that are going away from the mainstream narrative because they're hard to find. And so I'm finding this community in Austin and so there are people who are just breaking free from the Matrix. 1 (5m 7s): So I think it's getting huge, but then I leave and I realize that it's not, 0 (5m 13s): Or is it in that bubble? 1 (5m 14s): Yeah. If I leave my bubble, even my little bubble on East seventh Street, once I move out of that bubble, people are just like, what are you talking about? Like why would you eat Red Meat? We all know that's bad for you. 0 (5m 24s): So where did that stem from? Because what I was, and this is from something I'd either read or watched years ago, so it could be inaccurate, but it was saying that the campaign against Red Meat specifically in saturated Fat was funded by Big Sugar. 1 (5m 38s): Oh. So there is a story. So actually the sugar industry paid off Harvard scientists pretty low amount. It was only equivalent of $50,000 back in, I don't know, 80, maybe it was before. This wasn't like the main thing, but this is something that happened that they paid off these scientists to shift the blame away from sugar to Fat. but it, it actually started before that. There's a whole story, there's a famous study called the Seventh Country Study and there's a guy named Ansel Keys. I dunno if you've heard of this guy. So this is for my little Nutrition world. This is old news and everyone's heard this story a thousand times Haven, but I think haven't mainstream. It's, yeah, it's a news story. This, okay. It really started in the fifties. Actually, I wanna go further back to, well I'm gonna go further back later. 1 (6m 21s): Okay, we'll start with the fifties when President Eisenhower had a heart attack. So this was huge news, right? This was like the president, like there was, he was gone, he was in the hospital. Like this isn't a normal thing. It's also when people were smoking like in elevators, they're smoking in cars with their babies in the backseat. Like, you know, they were the mad men. They were, yeah, they were doing the Mad Men thing, they were drinking, right? Like mad men, they're just drinking nonstop and they're, the food processing was just beginning, right? They, the food processing really started after World War War ii and they figured out how to preserve foods and have, you know, more shelf life on these foods and more seed oils. Seeds were invented around 1914 Crisco, if people know the Crisco story, you know, margarine and they're like, oh we can make fake butter and it's supposed to be healthy for you. 1 (7m 5s): So this was just coming into the diet in a, in a bigger way. And so I kind of just skipped ahead to what I think is the real problem, why he had a heart attack and why other people were just starting to get these cardiovascular diseases. But people didn't know why at the time. So there was one guy named Ansel Keys and he was a scientist and he had a, you know, perfectly reasonable theory that it could be saturated Fat and Cholesterol and if you eat Cholesterol and it goes into your arteries and clogs them, you know, it's a very simple story that turned out to not be true. but it was his hypothesis. And then there was another guy, actually one of the main opponents of that was John Kin and he said it was sugar and flour and and oils. 1 (7m 49s): And that time that these came in to the, a diet of a population, they got sick and they gained weight. And so as these two opposing figures and Ansel Keys, I guess the story goes, he was a more domineering guy. He was just had a bigger personality and just kind of just won through his personality and also some of these spurious correlations where he famously looked at 22 different countries and he was looking at the rate of heart disease and the rate of saturated Fat that they ate. And he got rid of all the ones that didn't fit the line and had this perfect line of seven countries that just said, oh, the more they eat, the more saturated Fat, the more heart disease. 1 (8m 30s): And so that kind of stuck, even though when you put all 22 countries in, there was no strong correlation at all. And so there's a couple other things that went on that we're gonna go into in the film, but basically the government, the health people on the day just kind of went along with this. They're like, well we gotta do something because our, our nation is getting sicker. We're starting to have more cancer, more heart disease, more diabetes. You know, these were new things. These chronic diseases weren't around that much back in the day. And so they're just like, well we're, let's, let's, everyone should cut their Fat, right? It kind of made sense. They also did some studies on rabbits where they fed rabbits, high Cholesterol Diets. 1 (9m 14s): So rabbits aren't supposed to eat Meat or Fat or Cholesterol at all. They're supposed to eat like leaves and whatever, right? So of course they didn't do well with that and you know, they'd open up these arteries and they'd see Cholesterol in the arteries and they're like, oh you, you can't, you just ate Cholesterol and it, it just goes to your arteries. It's just not how the human body works. Yeah, 0 (9m 34s): It's interesting when you do the animal studies and then compare it to people because it's like if you're trying to find, you can interpret data however you want, right? No matter what team you're on. but it, if something happens in a rat then immediately everyone's like, this is gonna cause cancer and people cuz it caused cancer in a rat. But then conversely, Rats are not people. So how do you know what to take from the data and not if we're not doing human studies. 1 (9m 56s): So that's a big problem cuz we can't do all the human studies we want to do. It's impossible either by it's too expensive or you just can't lock Humans in a metabolic ward and study them for 30 years or 50 years. Like you can, you know, do the whole rat's life. We do do some of these studies and they do help. So it's supposed to be where you do these big kind of correlational studies where you look at what people ate and then you draw some more conclusions and they're like, okay, let's study this further. Right? And then you can do some more interventional studies or double blind placebo controlled studies and then you can start coming to some real conclusions. But that's not how science has been done lately. They kind of just go straight from the, here's some correlations to this is what we should all do. 1 (10m 42s): And that's kinda what happened back in the day is they're just like, well let's start cutting out Fat from our diet. It makes sense. Fat makes you Fat. You know, and then that kind of opened the door to this whole processed food industry. And then there was all these low Fat products and you know, we kind of skip ahead to 1980 when that's when the food pyramid was released and it was just seven to 11 servings of grains and you know, Meat and Fat went way up to the top. But you know, you're supposed to not eat it very much and, and then look what happened. 0 (11m 13s): That's so interesting. It seems like it's one of those things that's just been around forever. Like you don't realize that there was like a person or maybe a group of people that said this is the way that you're supposed to eat and try to dictate that to everyone. Like one diet is a one size fit all for everyone, which I can't stand, I think that's my biggest pet peeve with anything, whether it's like medical advice or diet advice. It's not taking account like the individuality of everyone and like the biodiversity that we have. So to be like, you know, strictly cut out all of the like basically become vegan, this is great or take this medicine, this is gonna be great for everyone. You're not accounting for the individuality here and like, you know, not everyone can have peanuts. You shouldn't be advising everyone to have peanuts. So yeah, that keeps me going. 0 (11m 53s): That's, 1 (11m 54s): That's like, that's the hugest problem. Yeah. And there was also just food industry even back then. There was food industry lobbying and interest. Like we had all this corn, wheat and soy and there was big interest in pushing it and subsidizing. It's like, well we have this corn, wheat and soy, we have millions of acres in the us let's use it and it's cheap, right? And so they, yes they did just give this one size fits all thing to the world. Well eventually the world because whatever the US does, the world kind of follows. But the dietary guidelines really were pushed out in 1980. And it's kind of funny when you look at these obesity statistics, it kind of just is going along slowly and then 1988 goes really sharp up, right when they introduced all this stuff. 1 (12m 37s): It's like, right, they just told the world to eat this and there's even more stories of how there wasn't supposed to be seven to 11 servings of grains and then we actually needed to feed the world with food stamps. So whatever the guidelines say, that's what nursing homes and hospitals and the military and all the and school public schools have to use these programs and the food stamps program has to go by these guidelines. Whoa. And so they're kind of just like, well wait a second, we're gonna have to pay for all this food, especially with the food, you know, food stamp all this, well really all of them. And they thought, well what could go wrong? Right? It's like this whole idea of Calorie is a Calorie, which is another thing that we're Debunking in the film, right? 1 (13m 20s): Thank 0 (13m 20s): You for saying that. There's this guy, he was supposed to be on the podcast and he canceled, thank God because his content lately I'm like, I just fundamentally disagree with, and he rants about Calorie Deficit, it is only about Calorie Deficit. And I'm like, you are not taking into account a thousand different things. If it was as simple as, as long as I'm eating 1500 calories, it doesn't matter if it's all ice cream or if it's all beef that it's gonna be the same. Absolutely not. Like there's your microbiome huge indicator of like weight gain, right? Like I'm sure you're familiar with those studies where they took the, you know, feces from a no obese mouse put it in or rat, I never know which one. Some rodent put it into the slim one and all of a sudden the slim, the slim one now can't shed weight, right? 0 (14m 1s): You can't discount that or mindset, which is huge. So Huberman was saying that a Stanford study, they had two milkshake, like identical milkshakes, two groups, one group they told them like this is a milkshake, tons of sugar, tons of Fat, it's a treat, enjoy it. The other one they were like, this is a health drink, a protein drink locale. Like all of the things, the glucose spike with the group that thought it was a health drink, almost nothing. The one that thought it was a milkshake, it was exactly what you would kind of anticipate. So there's all these other factors that go into like how our body digests food and you cannot just say Calorie Deficit. Like you are so dumb if that is what you think. 1 (14m 38s): Well I'm glad you said it like that cause that's what I think. I've been arguing with these people for years and it really annoys me and but imagine the entire US government and health officials thinking that and that's what happened. They just were like, well calories are all the same. Like yes, a beef Calorie would just be like a bread, you know, some cheap bread that has almost no protein and no Nutrients in it. You know, white bread from the grocery store doesn't matter. And they just thought about their budget and they just threw it out to the world and look what happened. And I love that I that the details, the nuance of why Calorie is not a Calorie. You can go with so many different levels. I like that you talk about even the mindset part because that matters too. 1 (15m 22s): There's so many factors. I think the satiety factors is a big one too. So losing weight, most people wanna lose some Fat, right? Well then there's a story of do you want to lose weight? Do you wanna lose muscle or do you wanna lose Fat? Right? Right. That's a huge thing too because a lot of these Diets, if you're just cutting calories, you're just gonna be cutting protein and Nutrients along with your calories and then you're gonna be losing muscle mass. There is a good study college aged Females, they gave one group adequate protein and one less or it was, you know, adequate and one was less. And they both did the same exercise. And I don't remember if it was at eight weeks, they both lost the same amount of weight on the scale. But then they did a DEXA scan and the group with the protein kept almost all of their muscle mass and lost only Fat. 1 (16m 7s): Almost the other group lost way more muscle mass and way less Fat. So that matters most. So when you're talking about calories, there's a, you know, a whole hierarchy of what, of what matters. Number one is, is it protein Calorie or is it an energy Calorie and energy would be Fat or Carbs, right? So that matters most. And then there's all these other factors that matter below that, which is, well the satiety thing is what I brought up. Losing weight, Losing fat is a battle of hunger basically, right? It's like everyone wants to eat less, but why can't everyone just eat less? Well you're hungry, right? This is the simplest concept that somehow these Calorie bros never consider. 1 (16m 49s): Cause I'm like, okay, well I can make you a Calorie, give me a a piece of paper and I'll make you a diet and I'm just gonna make it arbitrarily 1200 calories. And yes, you would lose weight if you just ate these 1200 calories. But that's not saying what would happen to your body, your health, your immune system, your muscle mass, all these things Wouldn't say how full you were. Right? You could eat 1200 calories and be absolutely starving. You'd be miserable and you would not stick to it. Which is what happens with most people, right? 95% or whatever of Diets fail. But if I gave you 1200 calories of beef or Liver, well not all Liver, but you know, if I made you like a really good diet that's full of protein and Nutrients and like very little energy, I mean this would be the extreme case. 1 (17m 34s): If you wanted to really cut weight, I would put you on. Yeah I would give you, I don't know. Yeah, we talked about bone broth, right? You have some bone broth, have some Meat, have some Liver just for those extra Nutrients and you could be full off at at 1200 calories and you could lose Fat. But that's not in the discussion of Calorie counting. 0 (17m 56s): No. Cause we're obsessed with numbers, which is why I, I don't know if the name of the drug, is it Zepa or, oh what's it called? Zepa or something? Zepa, yeah. Yeah. And it was something like 30% of the weight that you're losing and it's like bone mass, 1 (18m 8s): It's lean body mass. What 0 (18m 10s): Yeah are you talking about Arguably you wanna look good quote quote cuz I don't think that that looks good or healthy, but you wanna look like a skeleton. But then what's gonna happen when you're in your fifties or your sixties and you need your bone density Like that is crazy to me. And that's the examples that we're propping up of like what an a healthy body is. So it's funny because so many people get on the rage train when it people put like a plus size model on the cover of Sports Illustrated. But like no one is arguing that now that you know the Kardashians look like a skeleton due to a drug that that's also a problem. Right? Like it's like they're both are unhealthy. Both are unhealthy. So 1 (18m 46s): Super big problem and we actually do this in episode one of our film, we go into this of that it matters. You can be thin and unhealthy, you can be obese and unhealthy. There's so much to it. And the number one thing you want as you age is you're right on you want muscle mass, you want bone density, you want strength. Like all the big guy, you know Dr. Peter Teal, like that's what they're talking about. That's the number one thing they talk about is you need muscle mass and strength into your old age. You break a hip, you, you know, you can't support yourself, you fall, you wither away quickly, you die. And so any diet that is not supporting that is not good. So one thing we disentangle is that you can't just, there's a difference between short-term and long-term too. 1 (19m 32s): It's like yeah you could lose weight on Twinkies. There's a professor that famously ate Twinkies for a month and lost weight. No 0 (19m 38s): Way. 1 (19m 38s): Yeah. And I'm like that isn't, that's so stupid. I mean he did it to kind of show how stupid it was. Yeah. He's like, of course no one should do this. Of course I was starving the whole time. Of course I got no Nutrients, of course I had no protein. but it's possible. That doesn't mean that it's good like a juice fast. It's like yes you can do a juice fast and lose weight. It may not be good. You may just be losing muscle. You may just be bouncing back and gaining all the weight back once you're done with that quick fix 0 (20m 8s): If that happens. Does that kind of mean the fast was kinda like null, like it wasn't worth doing. So a lot of those fast or fast mimicking dials still say you'll lose, you know, five to seven pounds in the week but then you almost always gain gain it back. But they argue that like your cellular age decreases. And I don't know how much truth or science is to that. 1 (20m 28s): So there's a lot to it. I mean if you're talking about fasting mimicking diet or Walter Longo, well okay there's a lot to that. So you, you can fast in a healthy way too. You can do fasting and support your lean body mass and support and have enough protein where depending on if you do intermittent fasting or you do like longer term fasting, but then it matters what you're gonna refeed with after that. And if you're refeeding with quality animal foods and you're getting your protein and you can be perfectly fine and then yes maybe you can you help your mitochondria and like get that like biological age to you know have some benefits there with some fasting and then you can maybe gain that muscle that weight back and still be fine. 1 (21m 12s): But most people don't do that. They just will gain more weight back or just refeed start eating a normal diet again and then I don't think it's doing anything, it's just making it worse. There's the idea that yo-yo dieting is actually making things worse every time you lose weight and you go on these yo-yos and come back, it's, it's harder to keep the weight off. Which they showed in the biggest loser studies too. 0 (21m 35s): Oh I didn't know that. 1 (21m 36s): The biggest loser, they did a retrospective study. You know they had all these people over all these years lose all this weight and they found that the vast majority gained way more weight back. And there's yeah some other research too of just your body has a set point too and you it wants to come back to this weight. So actually 0 (21m 54s): For like survival purposes 1 (21m 56s): Pretty much Yeah. Your body. Yes. Trying to hold onto this set point of that you've created. So actually the best thing to do, I know this probably is stupid advice to someone is never get Fat in the first place, right? Cuz once you get there it's, it's way harder to get back. But you, there are ways if you do Diets correctly to lose weight and you can kind of support yourself and lower your body's step point gradually by doing it correctly, right? Where you won't just bounce back up. 0 (22m 24s): So is it true that you never get rid of the Fat cell? It is essentially just shrinks and then that's why it's easy to put the weight back on? 1 (22m 30s): I think so. Okay. I think so. Yeah. To go into the Fat cells stuff, actually that's, I wanna go back to that cuz you can be thin and unhealthy or you can be overweight and unhealthy. It's down to the Fat cells. So it's called like Visceral. Fat is the bad Fat. So subcutaneous Fat is the Fat like around your waist that you can pinch, right? You can pinch your stomach, but Visceral fat's inside, it's in and around your organs. What's interesting is people have different abilities, they have different genetic ability to gain more subcutaneous Fat before they start gaining the Visceral Fat the bad Fat. So India and China are famously thin, right? They're pretty thin on average, right? 1 (23m 10s): They have a low bmi. I looked at the rankings. They're very thin on average, yet they have the most diabetes in the world. 0 (23m 18s): I didn't know that 1 (23m 18s): Either. Number one and number two, well they have a lot of people but they also are number one and two in diabetes and they, they're a lot of stroke, lot of type two diabetes, right? These problems with sugar tablets and problems, right? So you can be thin and you can be unhealthy and you could be overweight and be unhealthy. There are some people who can be kind of overweight and still healthy, right? So these maybe your NFL athletes, right? They're working out a lot. They have a lot of subcutaneous Fat, you know they're just big fellas but maybe they don't have that much Visceral Fat and they have good blood Markers and you know, if they went to the doctor they're like, hey you're metabolically healthy and that's great. They are right. They're doing a lot of work and that's not the normal person, right? 1 (24m 2s): Those aren't those obese women. They put on the swimsuit issue saying, Ooh fat's great, this is awesome. You're super healthy. That's scientifically not true. You look at the literature, it's like all pretty much as you go up in weight, it's a linear curve of how many diseases are, how your life is shortened, the more weight, excess weight you have. 0 (24m 22s): So when it comes to the Visceral Fat, I feel like that's probably a really tricky one for a lot of people. Are there ways that you find target that specifically? Like whether it's like a workout regime or a specific diet, like is there a difference between men and women? 1 (24m 35s): Yes. So there's a great guy named Dr. Sean O. He's a friend of mine. We're trying to get him in the film. He's obsessed with Visceral Fat. He actually just went on some Fox news show like early morning thing and actually started talking about it. Which is cool cuz no one talks about Visceral Fat, especially the mainstream media. And his interventions, which I do and I agree with are eliminating processed foods, sprinting and lifting weights. Those are his main interventions. That doesn't mean you know, doing yoga or other things aren't great, it's just to lose Visceral. Fat. Those are most effective techniques. Mm. Sprinting, sprint, suck, sprint, I lo 0 (25m 12s): I would you like 1 (25m 13s): 'em way rather sprint. I think jogging is for the birds. Jogging. I would never jog, I would do anything on in the world. Any type of exercise before jogging. I think sprinting is the most effective and efficient thing you could do. I think it's fun. Maybe that's just cuz I grew up 0 (25m 30s): Sprinting. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. I would rather do anything than cardio. Any kind of cardio is just kills my soul. 1 (25m 37s): Well cardio isn't that effective. I think it's not a good way to lose weight at all. I think it's not even that necessary. I think you could lift weights or do other play sports or do any other type of exercise and you will still get cardiovascular, you know, improvements from it. But you can get cardio work just from lifting weights. 0 (25m 57s): Yeah, that's true. Right? 1 (25m 58s): And so yeah, I don't think cardio is that great. Just steady state cardio. I don't think that's great. You could do joint damage, you can actually have high crp, the C reactive protein. There's a Inflammation marker. Like if you really, you do a lot if you overtrain a lot of these marathoners they have really bad crp, which is a really bad marker for health and shows that your body's inflamed, whoa, your body is just breaking itself down. They have joint pain, a lot of them have Gut pain too. All or Gut issues, digestive issues from partly cuz they're car bloating and eating, you know, all kinds of trash basically. And yeah, I think that's just not what Humans are meant to do. 1 (26m 39s): I think Humans are meant to sprint. Yeah, or walk or climb or lift things like I went to Africa two years ago for the film 0 (26m 47s): And the inch part of the intro's great. 1 (26m 49s): Yeah the, the opening shot is me with the Masai kids running in the field. How did I end up here? Yeah, people gotta watch that go to YouTube food less. Yeah, no it's a great intro. It's three and a half minutes. It tells a lot of my story and what we're gonna talk about in the film. But yeah, I went with these hada, these are the hunter gatherers, right? They're still doing it. These guys, they're not going for jogs, you know, they're doing long walks, they're sprinting, they're climbing, they are, you know, getting food. And this is I think ancestrally consistent with how we could still live. 0 (27m 23s): So when it comes to the Inflammation Markers and doing something like extended cardio or like through running I guess is that similar to like the cortisol effects that a lot of women have with workouts? Because I heard that if you're a woman specifically, that you should be doing more like gentle movements instead of things that are like hit because we're more sensitive to cortisol. So then that like puts on more weight. Is that a false, 1 (27m 49s): I don't know. Don't quote me on this part. Yeah, I'm, I'm not like the doctor that's gonna get into that detail of of male versus female, stuff like that. But I think any human can do normal amount of lifting weights or hit. I think maybe people get carried away. I think anything in excess is gonna put on more, you know, too much wear and tear. Like even sauna cold plunge we were talking about that bef that's great unless you're doing it every day or way too long. Right. And you're just going too hardcore. Yeah that's just gonna be a stressor on your body. So yes there are difference between men and women and yeah I don't think women should be fasting so much. 0 (28m 29s): Right. Yeah, that was another thing I was gonna ask too is with the fasting, because all the data on it is, it's, the studies have been done on men. So we can't say that that's necessarily gonna cross over or have the same benefits and we naturally are supposed to have more Fat like we are supposed to make babies. So yeah, what's good for you is not necessarily good for me. So then we see this Gwyneth Paltrow interview going viral. I don't know if you saw it over the last couple days. No, but it, she's there and they're like, tell us about what you eat in a day or like what's it look like? Cuz you obviously look amazing in your, in your fifties. And she does, she looks amazing but she's like, well I don't eat for like 12 or 16 hours and then I wake up and I do the sauna and I do some yoga and then I might have some bone broth or maybe some soup and like some veggies and that's my day. 0 (29m 14s): And I'm like that is not attainable for almost anyone. Nor is that, does that sound like an enjoyable life to me? 1 (29m 21s): You are correct. I've seen a lot of Females in my years of doing this stuff. Not again, I'm not the doctor but I interview all the doctors that agree with this stuff and that yes women have different phases they have to go through and they can be maybe wanting to eat more Carbs during different times of their cycle and it can support them and their thyroid health and their metabolic health and there's a lot to it. And yes, that is a way to do it. Yes, you can lose a lot of weight doing what Gweneth Paltro does, but that doesn't mean everyone should do it. Right But, or you don't have to do it for so long. I'm really into this idea of like, just because something works doesn't mean it's good. Just because you do it doesn't mean everyone has to do it. 1 (30m 1s): Or just because you find success with it doesn't mean you have to do it for life. Like there's all these carnivore people. Yeah, I'm friends with all those carnivores, you know, you know these carnivore guys like there's Paul Saldino, there's Sean Baker, these, there's a lot of these guys. Well Paul Saldino, carnivore MD stopped. He was doing the full carnivore and he had some problems, right? He, he talked about 'em publicly and then he added a lot of fruit and honey and other things back Dairy too. Raw Dairy. Yeah. Yeah. And then he's doing a lot better and I, and I've followed his journey too. I've been friends with him for like five years. So I've seen the whole thing and he's doing better and I'm glad he's changed because just because it worked from the beginning and it helped get rid of his eczema. 1 (30m 43s): Like he talks about this, right? He did so well and he cleared up these issues, right? And maybe, yes, he had a Gut thing going on and he cleared up his Gut issues by going very carnivore, you know, nose to tail like the organs. Like it's great but then you don't have to do it for life. Then he is like, okay now I'm surfing in Costa Rica every day I can eat the fruit and the honey and the Raw milk and it's great. So I think, okay, I I thought of this yesterday. There's like, you know the 3D chess, there's like 4D chess, 4D chess, 4D chess. Well okay 4d, so one D, one D, yeah 4d, I'm not gonna go to 41 d. Chess is just following the guidelines. 1 (31m 23s): They're like oh fat's bad, right? So this is what or eat less, move more. That's just not a good thing and it doesn't work. 2D chess is when people, they're like wait, I'm gonna go against the guidelines. I'm gonna eat only animal foods and I'm gonna get healthy or I'm gonna fast every day and do all these things. And that's worked for me. Even vegans like I went vegan, I felt amazing. You know there's reasons why you cut out all these things from your diet. You stopped eating trash. So yes I get it. So that's 2d. You have to go to 3D chess where you're like, so why did those Diets work like zoom out like this? It's not just that everyone has to do this certain thing that worked for you. 1 (32m 4s): You need to understand why different Diets can work and why different Diets don't work and why do we need protein and Nutrients? And that's what we're trying to do in the film That's actually had my own journey in six years making this film where I was in the 2D chess world where I thought I knew it all cuz I did it and I did this way of eating and it worked for me. And all the doctors that I was interviewing echoed that and they said it was great and then I realized that different Diets can work. I zoomed out. You have to go into that 3D chest line of like what is actually going on, right? It's like if you understand food then you can, if you understand really the human body and why things work, then you don't have to be stuck in like this is my diet or I have to fast or this is that you realize that there are principles and there are things that each diet can leverage to make it work. 1 (32m 59s): So this is the ultimate goal is to understand things at that level. And then you won't be stuck in this thing where I have to only drink bone broth and eat for four hours a day. 0 (33m 11s): So in my experience, anytime in the past where I tried to like totally eliminate an entire food group, I felt like my body didn't know how to handle that. So when I first was diagnosed with endometriosis, like I was like 19 and I had this health food, you know, not even doctor but like, like chiropractor and she's like get rid of all of the animal stuff. Go vegetarian. So I did that for a few years and I feel like when I went to reintroduce Meat it was really hard. My body's like what do I do with this? So I feel like it's the same if you were to totally get rid of Carbs and go totally keto or if you're doing carnivore and just doing Meat and they're getting popularized obviously because like the huge personas that are advocating for 'em. 0 (33m 55s): But like some of these people had serious health issues and literally can't eat anything else. So maybe don't do it unless that is the camp that you fall into. Because what happens if you do have adverse reactions or your body's like, I need something more than just steak or just something more than just lamb. Now you eat something your body doesn know what to do with it and you start packing on weight. Do you know what I 1 (34m 15s): Mean? Well yeah, Michaela Peterson is maybe who you're referencing. Yeah, she's in the film too. I mean actually I interviewed her, we don't know who's in the final cut yet. But yeah, I've been following her journey and I heard her say recently she said if she could, she would be adding a lot more foods back in. She does not want to only eat beef and lamb and salt. Yeah, 0 (34m 35s): Sounds 1 (34m 36s): Terrible. Yeah. And so sh she's, I'm glad she's saying that message cuz for a while it seemed like she was just saying hey this is what is awesome. She never said you gotta do this. She's like this is what works for me. But now I think the evolved message is this is what I'm doing now because I have to. And then yes, if you cut out Meat for a long time you can lose stomach acid. Like you, you need this. You know, there's certain even Gut microbiome, like you have these microbes that feed on certain foods and if you get rid of 'em then you're not gonna have that species of Gut bacteria anymore. 0 (35m 7s): So how does that work? So we recently did those, are you familiar with volume those Gut Tests? Yeah. So we did those. My husband's came back and maybe he's gonna get annoyed that I'm sharing this, but it basically told him to cut out all Meat except for dark Meat chicken. And I think lamb, those are the only two things because they we're saying his biome doesn't have the acid I guess in like certain bacteria to break down Meat and then to like potentially reintroduce it in 60 days. But I feel like that's gonna exacerbate the problem or make again reintroducing the Meat more difficult. So do you have any like experts that you've talked to about something like that? 1 (35m 44s): Yeah, I, I don't like some of those tests cause they, yeah they, I don't know. It's just sort of this one size fits all. They're like okay well we, we just made these conclusions based on you know, your genetics or your this one panel. I just think that never works. Yeah, I definitely think it would make it harder if you need to. I would say just add it in smaller amounts and then you can get those new microbes back. I mean yes you can. There's so many different ways to do it. You don't want to just, 0 (36m 14s): Just totally get rid of it. 1 (36m 16s): No, that's 0 (36m 16s): Crazy. Yeah, if you saw my list, it's pretty much all produce. It's like don't have any of this. So I can have all the Meat I want pretty much. I think there's like maybe some things that I don't eat that are just already on there. But like tomatoes, cauliflower, like everything. I'm like what do you, am I doing carnivore Cause I don't wanna do that. 1 (36m 35s): Well yeah, I wouldn't suggest that either. Never been a carnivore person. But then also, I mean I do understand like tomatoes are nightshades and maybe you don't do well with nightshades or maybe a lot of people don't do well with nightshades or it Oxalates like spinach, almonds, chocolate. Like a lot of these foods have high Oxalates. I actually had some trouble with Oxalates cuz I fell into this thing. I don't remember which years in my health journey were, I was drinking the spinach and kale shakes every day and I thought it was so great and then I had all these problems from it and I 0 (37m 8s): Kind of, yeah. What did that look like? Like what were, what are some symptoms to know of your 1 (37m 11s): PVE problems? Yeah, like skin problems. Like I had like red itchy like on stuff on my face. Like just all these small things. I didn't really know what was going on and then they started to go away once I, I stopped eating it. Hmm. But I think it was really attacking my Gut and just Oxalates. So people don't know Oxalates are these spiky little crystals that are in certain foods and people who have kidney stones all, most of the time it's calcium Oxalates. It's, well yeah, calcium Oxalates is what kidney kidney stones are and most of the time it's from eating high Oxalates foods. Right? Or your body not being able to deal with Oxalates. Maybe you don't have the right st you know, Gut bacteria to deal with them. 1 (37m 51s): But there there's more issues that could be causing it. But basically the, the Oxalates crystallizes and so people know passing a kidney stone is not fun, right. It's a spiky thing that has to exit your body. And I told this story before I cut out Oxalates for two years after I finally realized that I was drinking these Oxalates smoothies every day, which is not good. Like hundreds of times that what I, your body needed two years I cut 'em out and then I had one of these super greens, you know these type of like green smooth like 0 (38m 27s): Powders. So is it in those powders too, like those green powders? 1 (38m 30s): I think that's just a Oxalates bomb. 0 (38m 32s): Really? Yes. 1 (38m 34s): I should unsubscribe cause it's, I don't wanna name any company's name. Yeah, I it's maybe it's not for everyone, but maybe these things build up and you don't know it. Yeah, I think but so this is what happened to me. So two years, no Oxalates then one of these companies sent it to me. They're like, oh here's some Meat, here's some the powder. I drank it, I eat the same thing every day. So this was the only thing that changed in my diet this one day. Drank it in the middle of the night. I woke up and like had like a kidney stone basically. Well like a small, oh my gosh, it was so painful. Just peeing fire. Like it was crazy. Whoa. And it was just the Oxalates, they call it oxide dumping where something like eating a whole bunch of oxides like triggered my body to like release them all. 1 (39m 19s): I mean there's really no other explanation. This is the only time it's ever happened to me in my whole life was the one day that I had that green little powder. Yikes. So, and there's other stories. My friend Dr. Bill Schindler told it on my podcast as he had these crazy eye problems. It manifests in all these different ways, but these crystals build up. So this is why these carnivore doctors are doing their thing. Like they get really into these plant antinutrients that no one knows about. And let, it lets people know that these exist right there. There are things, there's Lectins and there's soine and there's phytates and like so many different plants could be harming you. Not saying that people should cut out plants. 1 (40m 0s): So back to you not saying you should never eat those foods again, but maybe these cruciferous vegetables like kale and Yeah, those were on their spins. Yeah, I mean what on there not they have, you know, fair amount of Oxalates but it's also just maybe too much fibrous stuff. It's like very aggravating I think. Hmm. And yeah, they, they plant antigens are a real thing. Plants don't wanna be eaten. They, they have these chemicals and so Humans have spent all of history detoxifying plants. You know, we, that's what we've done is Humans is figure out how to feed ourselves in whatever environment we're in. And most of the time that was animal foods and we could always hunt or gather animal foods. 1 (40m 43s): And when we couldn't, we resorted to plant foods and we had to figure out how to make them safer to eat. And there's same guy, Dr. Bill Schindler, he actually travels around the world and studies cultures and how they prepare food and figures out like, oh fermentation, fermentation helps get rid of a lot of the antinutrients and it actually helps with probiotics and helps you digest it better. And all this stuff they have in Peru, they have this way of detoxifying the potatoes. They bury them underground or underwater for long periods of time to get rid of all these antinutrients that are in them. But nowadays we don't do all these practices. Those modern processing techniques are not like our traditional processing techniques. 1 (41m 24s): The modern processing is just how fast and how cheap we can make something. And so his idea is that that's causing a lot of problems, right? That we're getting a lot of these plant antinutrients like gluten. Gluten is a famous one of like that can like skit into your Gut and like go in between the membranes and cause problems. And if you ferment and you use like the ancient grains, they don't have all these 0 (41m 49s): Glutens like sourdough, right? 1 (41m 50s): Yes. He's big into like properly fermented sourdough from like real grain, not, you know, g o like monocrop, Monsanto, Meat, you know, he's talking about like ancient grains and properly fermenting it for you know, two days or whatever and then you can handle it. And a lot of people say yes when I eat that bread I feel fine. Or a lot of people that go to Europe. I hear that. I feel fine. Yeah. 0 (42m 14s): So is there an argument that having these, like whether it's Lectins or what are they, the Oxalates in small doses is training your body how to problem solve them? Or is it kind of just stacking up and then eventually you have a surplus and then you have a kidney stone? 1 (42m 31s): So it is theoretical but my understanding after interviewing so many people is that we used to eat seasonally and this was totally fine if you eat something seasonally, if for two months a year we had a bunch of Oxalates, we found some sort of ancient spinach and we ate it, we were good cause your body can detoxify it, get rid of it for the rest of the year. But now we're doing that year round and people are eating these giant spinach salads or spinach and kale shakes every day. And so yet your body doesn have a way of detoxifying it, get rid, getting rid of it. So yeah, I think you, you should be able to eat a bit of Oxalates, right? Some of the, the carnivore people, their solution is to just get rid of it all Right. 1 (43m 12s): And I don't think that's a good solution. The good solution is to be mindful and and realize that we have to be eating seasonally or you know, at least thinking about the dosage. 0 (43m 24s): Yeah, yeah. And then you brought up the point of how to prepare the food too, which I think is is great and lost on so many people cuz A, we're not cooking and B, we're not passing recipes down to the younger generation. So like one example is rinsing your, your white rice. So when I was little I never really knew why my grandma did that. I just thought it was like an extra step that's just, if you're lazy, skip it. Just throw it in the rice cooker and it's fine. But what I learned and especially through like a lot of the baby books when you're like making baby food is they highly emphasize rinsing the rice because you're actually Removing like over, I think with white rice it's like 80% of the arsenic that's in it. So like that's just in it from the soil. 0 (44m 4s): So you absolutely need to be doing that. Or combining rice and beans is supposed to take some of the load off of the Lectins. I don't know if that's true or not, but like that was one of the reasons, 1 (44m 13s): Well combining rice with beans usually is done to get a full amino acid profile. So if you're not eating enough Meat, people can survive off rice and beans cuz they have, they don't have the full proteins, you know, amino acids. But together they kind of do, but it's still not good. But for Lectins it's more about pressure cooking the beans. Okay. So if you pressure cook beans and cook them properly, you can get rid of law Lectins. But yeah, that's why. 0 (44m 37s): Okay. Yeah I knew there was some kind of reasonable See it improving my own point. 1 (44m 41s): There's something. Yeah, well, well the main point is that Humans have figured this stuff out over the centuries, right? Like we knew we just instinctively new to figure out way, you know, wash the rice or put beans and rice together if that's all we had and we could get a more complete protein or oh there's so many more examples. It's like we figured this stuff out even, oh Western price have 0 (45m 3s): Cooking tomatoes is another one you 1 (45m 5s): Could probably get rid of the, I don't know if it's seines or what. So the night, the things in night shifts, yeah you can get rid of those and taking the peel off, you can take the peel off thing tomatoes or peppers and you get rid of a lot of those anti-nutrients. Oh, so that's traditionally they would do that. They would take the peels 0 (45m 21s): Off, which is why you'd cook the pepper on the flame. Right. And probably peel off. Yes. 1 (45m 24s): Oh wow. Exactly. But we didn't even have peppers. Peppers a very new invention. A lot of these are very new inventions, but I was gonna mention Weston Price because he went around the world, I'm obsessed with Weston Price. He went around the world a hundred years ago studying ancient cultures like these, these cultures that didn't eat processed foods and they were still healthy. He was a dentist and he saw all these people with messed up teeth, right? He was 1930s in the US and he, he said, well why would we be around as a species if we couldn't eat, if our teeth were falling out and crooked and had cavities? And he found around the world that there was all these populations that had perfect teeth. 1 (46m 4s): Why dental arches? You know, big jaws. They didn't have to have their teeth removed. I had like eight teeth removed and I'm actually getting a pelvic expander to expand it. I have to wear this thing every night that expands my jogging and it builds new bone and, and widens my jogging. 0 (46m 19s): That sounds painful. 1 (46m 20s): It's, it's fine. but it went outta the world and found all these cultures that were still super healthy. They didn't have the chronic diseases, they had amazing teeth and they all had the same practices even though they, they're completely unconnected to each other, right? They had no way he went to Africa and Melanesia Micronesia, he went to the Swiss Alps, he went to Australia and he found that they had these same traditions. So that's why I thought of it. It's because Humans are genius, right? We figured out the same things even though we're completely not connected. And a lot of them were these traditional preparation techniques. But the biggest thing that I think is important is that we all had traditions around Pregnancy and we would give the woman and even the man certain foods to, to, because we knew how to make a healthy human. 1 (47m 6s): And they just figured out by trial and error. And they figured out all over the world. And it was always the animal foods, it was always the most nutrient Dense animal foods. And it was the Organ meats, it was Fat, it was full Fat, Dairy, Raw, Dairy. It was eggs, it was seafood, it was Fat bone marrow. It was bone broth. This was all these different cultures. Whatever they had access to, they would use those animal foods and give them to, to pregnant women or even men who wanted to conceive, they would give the, to these special foods, these highly priced foods to these people. Cause they knew it made healthy Humans. So he's the one who actually discovered vitamin K2 and these, some of these vitamins and minerals that are only in animal foods or these Fat soluble vitamins that help Humans be healthy. 0 (47m 56s): It just, it's, it blows my mind to how much Nutrition isn't taken seriously during Pregnancy. And we kind of make jokes about it. Like where the wife is demanding at the husband go out and go get, you know, cup taco, be or cup, right? And it's like you're growing something really important in there and what you put into your body absolutely is gonna affect that kid one way or another. When I just had my recent one, I was the only mom on the floor and the recovery, there's like 38 of us that night that, so they like leave the little tap in you in case they need to do like intravenous iron because I guess it's very common to be deficient after labor. I was the only woman on the floor that didn't need it. 0 (48m 35s): And she was just like, well what, what were you eating? I was like, I was eating red Meat twice a day, every day for my last trimester, which probably like, it was really not easy, but like they make a lot of like breakfast sausages and, and stuff now. So you can like have it more throughout the day that if that's like more palatable if you're not used to it. But I was the only one doing it and she's just like, wow, good for you. And I'm like, that is crazy to me. That's so crazy to me. And everyone thought I was nuts. They're like, that's a lot of red Meat. I was like, it's fine, it's fine. Baby's thriving. I love that. I love it. 1 (49m 5s): They're, oh man, I, I have all these people in Austin, all these new moms and they do that all and, and Weston Price. They have a whole foundation. They have cookbooks, they have all this stuff. And so a lot of the, we call 'em like the Westin Price babies and they are giant and strong. They're, you know, the biggest, you know, the marker, the ranges. Yeah. They're always at the top. They always are super healthy. The moms say they don't have morning sickness. The moms have stories like that. They, they have, they're the, I'm just healthy. I'm just healthier than any mom. I, I didn't have a problem even giving birth. I have a good friend of mine, their midwife didn't show up in time and they just did it themselves. 0 (49m 43s): Yeah. 1 (49m 44s): Completely by themselves. Yeah. They just did it. I'm like, that's how Humans used to be capable. This is what we found in Africa. We, I went with this woman, Mary, who is a great nutritionist, Mary Reddick, and she asked all the good questions about women's health and this and that and they're like, no, we don't have painful periods. No, we don't have trouble giving birth. No, we don't have, you know, our time of the month. And you know, we're have problems. They're just, it's kind of funny. The guys too, we ask the guys like, do you have back pain? The older gentleman, you're like, do you have knee pain? Do you have back pain? Like, what is that? We're like, do you have back pain? They're like, what are you talking about? We have a translator. And they're like, what are you talking about? And they're like, does your back hurt? They're like, oh yeah, yeah, he fell out of a tree last month and his back hurt. 1 (50m 26s): Like, no. So he, he just doesn't have back pain as an older man. They're like, no. 0 (50m 31s): Wow. Because you would just couple that. You would just think chronic pain is just something that happens with age and you just have to accept it. 1 (50m 37s): That's what I happened to me, that's part of my story. I was turning 30 and I was just becoming that guy. The dad bod, you know, it's like you can't eat whatever you want anymore. Oh, I can't play sports anymore. My knees hurt. I had acid reflex, I had allergies, I had joint pain. All this stuff. I'm like, this is my life now. Change the way I was eating. Well actually I told the story in the intro. I lost both my parents around that time. So I had to, you know, wake up, make some changes and I changed the way I ate and I really just made some simple changes. I got rid of some of these processed foods. Really what Western Price found is all these cultures, as soon as the sugar flour oil, it's basically the refined grains, refined sugars and vegetable oils came into their diet. 1 (51m 19s): They got sick. So I'm kind of jumping around, but that's what he found. So they all had the good practices of eating the animal foods and the nutrient Dense animal foods. And they all didn't have these three ingredients that make up basically all processed foods. Especially today, it's like 80% of foods people eat are made up of those three ingredients. So 10 years ago, I'm almost 40. I'm way better than I was when I was 30. I'm playing beach volleyball for three hours and having no problems and feel great. I'm like a better athlete than I was at 30 and I have no allergies anymore. Well, really if I, if I eat a little bread, I can have some allergies. Actually, it's weird. So they can come back. But I generally got rid of my allergies, got acid reflux, never again, zero times. 1 (52m 1s): I used to be, you know, taking Tums and all this stuff, joint pain, no more joint pain. So all I did was get rid of those three ingredients, which could be hard for people because like I said, 80% of food, 0 (52m 11s): The seed oils and everything, 1 (52m 13s): The seeds and everything, the sh, the added sugars and everything, refined grains are in everything. And I mean I just got rid of those and it all went away. But again, I don't wanna just say that everyone has to do that, but it's generally a pretty good recommendation for anyone. Right. It's like why does any good diet work? Well, you're probably getting a rid of seed oils, refined grains or added sugars or all three of 'em. 0 (52m 38s): It's a good place to start. 1 (52m 39s): Yeah. 0 (52m 41s): So we talked about Liver and like Organ Meat a little bit. And I feel like that's one of those like sensational topics because obviously Liver King made his whole like his proclamations and then there's like these freeze dried Liver pills that you can take now that are kind of like a supplement or a vitamin. Is there a difference between having it like fresh and cooking it versus freeze dried And then you have Michaela who's very vocal about you don't need Organ Meat at all. I guess her and her dad don't eat it 1 (53m 10s): At all. She changed recently. Oh 0 (53m 12s): Did she? 1 (53m 13s): She did. She, this was only a few weeks ago I think, where she came out and said, you know what guys, I was wrong. I got a test, I got my, you know, mineral analysis and I am very low in, I forget which mineral. And she said, I am eating Liver now. 0 (53m 32s): Oh wow. Okay. I must have read that wrong. Cause I saw her poster dad's results and she's like, this is with no Liver. And I took it as like, see I don't need it. 1 (53m 39s): How recently was that though? 0 (53m 40s): It was, yeah, the last couple weeks. Well, 1 (53m 42s): Maybe it was just, maybe he is doing okay. Yeah, well I know it 0 (53m 45s): Is hot. I didn't see hers. 1 (53m 46s): Yeah. Okay, well this is a hot topic in the Nutrition world and I'm on the side of eating nose to tail and eating organs. I'm not saying you have to do it like Liver King, like that was a sensational like marketing stunt basically. And he's just nodding on things. I mean, that's not evolutionary consistent either. Like I was with the Hudson, I mean, yes, the first thing we did when we got an animal, I went hunting with them, we opened it up and we ate the Liver, but it was this little deer, it's called Atic Dick or Tic or Tic Dick. I never know how to say it, but you know, it's like this Liver, it's like this big, it's, it's not big. And there's a lot of guys and we each got a little piece, you know, that's what we did throughout history. 1 (54m 27s): We didn't na on a five pound Liver by ourselves. So I think that's the answer is that you can eat an evolutionary appropriate amount of Liver and organs and that that would probably be ideal and give you a whole bunch of Nutrients. I mean we know the Nutrition content of Liver. There's tons of vitamin A and iron and B12 and tons of copper. Actually copper is a great source of copper. Just great Nutrients that you're not gonna really get elsewhere. And then to answer the question about the supplements, yeah, I mean freeze dry, it's, it's, it's not a bad way to process them. You don't lose that much we don't think. There's not super hard evidence of, you know, I think it's generally considered that you're probably getting 90% there. 1 (55m 13s): And so why not, if you're not gonna eat the Liver take a pill, 0 (55m 18s): Can you like overdo it? Yeah. With the Liver. Yeah. 1 (55m 21s): Yeah. Vit, a lot of people are getting worried about vitamin A toxicity. Okay. There is like 2000% vitamin A in Liver. But that's what I'm saying, don't do Liver King don't do a lot. Yeah. Yeah. And some people are overblowing it, they're going the other direction where they're like, you can't eat Liver, you're gonna get vitamin A toxicity. Like, no, that's not gonna happen to most people. I mean, no one wants to eat that much Liver. Right. Your body probably doesn't want that much Liver. I mean I eat, you know, a little bit of Liver per week and I think that's fine. So yes. Don't go crazy. 0 (55m 51s): How do you make yours to, it's like you enjoy it or do you enjoy it or is it something you just 1 (55m 55s): Stuck out? I don't enjoy it. I, I wasn't, I wasn't raised with it. I think some people are raised, I have a friend, Dr. Gary that was, his parents are Russian and they just eat Liver all the time and he loves it for me. I, well I made my own product actually. Oh, did you? Well my company's called Nose to Tail. I like that. All these guys keep saying nose to tail, like it's like a 0 (56m 13s): Free promo. It 1 (56m 14s): Is. Liver King says it all the time. Paul Saldino says it all the time. Yeah, the company's nose to tail. But our main product is primal ground beef. So we put the organs in the ground beef, so we put Liver, heart, kidney, and spleen in it. Oh that's so it's just, that's cool. It's like a burger patty. Yeah. And so that's how I do it. That's the main way I get Liver because it tastes great and you can add a little seasoning. It doesn't taste bad. It you could taste like a little bit of something like 0 (56m 37s): Minerally 1 (56m 37s): Little minerally. Yeah. It just tastes rich to me. Yeah. But you make a burger patty out of it and you maybe add a little seasoning and I think that's the best way. Some al people also, you can cut it up into little tiny things and you can freeze it and then you can take it out and thaw a little and just swallow it. Oh, okay. So Raw, Liver little capsule type things. 0 (56m 56s): Yeah. So do you, your company ships everywhere? 1 (56m 59s): Yeah. 48 states. Awesome. Yeah. 0 (57m 1s): I'm gonna check that out. I'm gonna order some. Yeah, 1 (57m 3s): It's, I'm telling you it's the best way to do it. 0 (57m 6s): Yeah. You were also saying you started a community right? Of like, like-minded, what's the name of the community? 1 (57m 11s): It's called Sapien Center. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny, it's, I did all this online stuff over the years and you, I've been making the film and I've kind of built this whole community around food lies before it even existed. Which 0 (57m 22s): Is kind of, that's why I was looking for it. I was like, I, it has to be out here somewhere and I just suck at searching for it. 1 (57m 27s): Yeah. People think that and it's just not out yet. It's just such a big project. But along the way I started a podcast called Peak Human. I was like interviewing all these great scientists and doctors like I need to just have a podcast. I started to nose the tail company just along the way too, cuz I didn't want to have sponsors to my podcast. So I just sponsored my own show and then the last thing I did was the Sapien Center, which is just bringing that community into real life. And you know, especially with Covid, everyone's like, let's do real life stuff guys. Like I, I never stopped doing real life 0 (57m 59s): Stuff. I didn't either. 1 (58m 0s): No. I had a good crew that we were like, we're not doing, we're not scared of this. No. So we did our real life stuff but now we have, you know, home base for that and it's, we have outdoor workouts. People are there right now. Well it's not, it's nighttime now, but there people are there, you know, doing outdoor workout, no shoes, no shirt. They're working outdoors in the sun, you know, doing like take a computer and sit in a chair. We got sauna cold plunge. That's awesome. Yeah. This is the dream. I think this is where the world is heading, you 0 (58m 31s): Know? I hope so. 1 (58m 32s): I think so. I think there's gonna be two separate societies. I mean one's gonna be way bigger than the other. The people on this Wallie train, did you ever watch a wallie? 0 (58m 40s): Yeah, yeah, yeah. My kids obsessed with it. 1 (58m 43s): Yeah, well that's gonna be a reality soon. So I think most of the world is just going down that processed food. Like they're gonna end up in scooters, you know, being carted around 0 (58m 53s): Watching their screen. 1 (58m 54s): Yep. And then there's gonna be this small portion of people hopefully listening to this show that reject that and just eat real foods and do outdoor workouts and have community. Half of it's just community too. Yeah, right. Like your mindset stuff. I mean that is, that is right on like the blue zones. That's a whole nother rabbit hole cuz they, 0 (59m 15s): Because that's faked too, right? Yes. That's what I heard is they were like plucking out communities that ate a lot of Meat that were technically in that zone and they're like, Nope, we're ignore ignored Spain. 1 (59m 24s): They ignored that. They ignored, even in Aria in Greece, the same woman Mary, she's going around the world visiting these blue zones, Debunking them and they're just eating lamb and goat and milk and organs and they are not plant-based. But Dan Butner, you know, had an agenda and went out to prove it. But I brought it up because I think one of the main things that these communities had in common, well for one they were eating whole foods. So they were eating animal foods. Dan Butner was trying to claim not a lot, but it, they were eating basically all whole foods. So I think that's a good diet no matter what, if you're only eating whole Foods, most people are not doing that at all. 1 (1h 0m 4s): Very few people are actually eating whole food Diets. And maybe even more important is they have the other factors, the sense of community, the sense of purpose, the being outdoors, like being in nature. You know, these places, they had old people who were still living in the houses with the whole family and they were working until the day they died. And that could be one of the most important things. 0 (1h 0m 30s): What's it called? Ichiro? Or what's the Japanese word? 1 (1h 0m 34s): <unk> Well that's a different one. Hari. Hachi means eat till you're 80% full. No, 0 (1h 0m 38s): No, 1 (1h 0m 38s): No, no. It's a separate thing. No, 0 (1h 0m 39s): It's a, it's a Japanese word for purpose. Oh. So there's like the one island that's like right off of Japan. It has Okinawa, maybe it 1 (1h 0m 47s): Has okinawa's where the, the long lived population is. 0 (1h 0m 50s): Okay. So it's gotta be there. Yeah. And they use the word, I'm gonna Google it, 1 (1h 0m 54s): Maybe I've heard of this word. 0 (1h 0m 56s): Hold on. 1 (1h 0m 57s): It means sense of purpose. That means 0 (1h 0m 60s): Japanese word for, I think it starts with an I Chu 1 (1h 1m 7s): People would know this. I'm from home 0 (1h 1m 8s): Chy guy. 1 (1h 1m 9s): Oh, chy guy. 0 (1h 1m 9s): Okay. Yeah. So they were saying, and a similar thing is like you have these hundred plus year old men, men or women that are still living in the house with everyone else and they attribute a lot of why they're able to live so long as like they're not like shoved away and sanitized and we don't wanna see that because it reminds us of our own, you know, the fact that we're going to age and die as well. So like let's get rid of the old people to make ourselves more comfortable. Like no, they're integrated in the community. They wake up, they have their chores, they help participate and that's a huge factor into it. And the, which is what drove me so crazy during like the whole like pandemic was like, let's isolate and see how well everyone thrives under those conditions when we would know. That's like the worst punishment you could give to a person. 0 (1h 1m 50s): Right? If you have kids, you know, the worst thing you could do is like make them go into their room by themselves. There's nothing else I could do that would make my kid more upset. Same with a person. Right. If you're in jail, what's the worst thing you do? Yeah. 1 (1h 2m 1s): Solitary. Right? Absolute 0 (1h 2m 3s): Worst. Let's, let's break people. 1 (1h 2m 6s): I don't want to get into Covid. 0 (1h 2m 7s): Yeah, no you're 1 (1h 2m 8s): Fine. Gonna, you're gonna get kicked off at YouTube. 0 (1h 2m 9s): No, 1 (1h 2m 10s): If we start talking about it. I almost got kicked off at YouTube because I started talking about all this stuff. 0 (1h 2m 14s): About, about the need for community? 1 (1h 2m 16s): No, just about, well about how it was so backwards. Everything we did during the covid years so backwards and yes. Isolation community, they, it just goes against everything we know about human health. Yeah. Telling people they can't even work out outdoors. I was in LA I was in Venice Beach, they lo, they put chains around outdoor workout equipment. Like I couldn't go do pull-ups cuz there was chains around it. They closed the beaches. It's like I just wanted to get some vitamin D I just wanted to go outside. My pool was closed, they locked it up. I jumped over the fence, got kicked out and I had nowhere to go. I just want to get outdoors. I want to do a workout, I want to get vitamin D, I want to see people, I want eat real food. 1 (1h 3m 1s): Closed all the real food places. Left open the drive-throughs. 0 (1h 3m 6s): Yeah. Yeah. We have a little park in the community and our, I guess whoever is like the HOA or whatever took Saran wrap and caution tape and did the whole park and the parents were like, fuck that. And they ripped it off and it happened like three times and eventually like we, we quit take the park like you can't do this to the kids. That's crazy. Like you need to see people. It's just, it's fundamentally wrong. There was somewhere I was gonna go with that. 1 (1h 3m 31s): Well it's good that you're here in North Carolina. Like it wasn't la California was terrible. I had to leave California. It was another 0 (1h 3m 39s): That's what drove you to Austin. 1 (1h 3m 41s): Yeah, well I've been visiting Austin for eight years before so I knew what was going on. There was a big health community there so I knew there was this movement that is ever growing. 0 (1h 3m 51s): We're toying with the idea of going there. We keep like looking, I have a couple houses saved on realtor that I keep checking and I don't know, I feel like a tiny little tug but we'll 1 (1h 4m 1s): See. It's a special place. 0 (1h 4m 3s): Did you have like friends there before you moved here? 1 (1h 4m 5s): Yeah, yeah. There's a health community. I called the ancestral health community. Like that's generally what these people we've talked, we've been talking about like Liver King or Paul Saldino or Paleo Diets or even keto Diets. Like all these things are kind of generally in this ancestral health space, which just means let's go back to the way we used to live and that's, it was all about community. It was all about having purpose and being outside and just all these basic things that are human. 0 (1h 4m 35s): No I, I hope that we see like a huge shift there. I we talk about like our parents aging and what that looks like because so I'm like part Japanese, so with Asians, like you don't shove your parents into a home. That's unheard of. I'm like, I just don't know why in the west that's just so common. And he's like, what? You're let my parents move in? And I was like, well if they need to. Yeah. And you know I, that relationship isn't exactly like always easy but it's like what's the right thing to do And then what do you wanna model for your kids as well? It's like, do you stop mattering after a certain age or no? Right. 1 (1h 5m 9s): Well I'm from Hawaii born and raised and Oh really? Yeah, the guy making my film with me is full Japanese actually. But yeah a lot of Asian parents living in households. Yeah it's very normal in Hawaii. That's why I should have known Iki guy. I know, I know. I knew. Haha Chivu at 0 (1h 5m 23s): Least. No, they have some great words. There's also the one which is so interesting because we look to Japan a lot for a good model of health because we look at a small island like that. But they also have that word which is escaping me for working yourself to death. And that's kind of uniquely Asian as well. So you'd like very, very po polar opposite ways of living. You're like literally people collapsing in subways and people just thinking that they're asleep. Yeah. So that's not good either. 1 (1h 5m 51s): I do remember hearing about that. Yeah. 0 (1h 5m 52s): Yeah. So do you do anything, we talked about mindset a little bit. Do you do anything as far as like Meditation Practices that you like? Or how do you take care of your mind as well as your body? 1 (1h 6m 4s): I'm probably not the best at that. No. I focus on the five I, I kind of focus on these five pillars. I think sleep is a huge one. I didn't get enough sleep last night and i's bothering me. I'm like how am I gonna make up for this? Like I need to go take a nap or I always get sleep. I think there's a big correlation with Alzheimer's and not getting enough sleep. 0 (1h 6m 25s): Oh yeah. 1 (1h 6m 26s): Wow. And it makes sense like your brain needs to repair and you need to sleep and it seems like you can get away with it for a while and then all of a sudden you can't. And I remember sort of this well-known doctor talking about how he would visit Alzheimer's awards and they would all be these older men who were like big time CEOs that never slept. There were these people that just had a lifetime of not sleeping. So the way I take care of my mind is by sleeping, by working out, by being out in the sun and you know, being in nature by eating the right food and, and then I guess the, the only like kind of mindfulness stuff I do would be I guess sauna, cold plunge, like sort of breathing. 1 (1h 7m 10s): I'm getting more into like breathing techniques so I feel like I'll, I'll get to Meditation soon enough. Yeah. Through those breathing techniques. 0 (1h 7m 17s): Yeah, I just started this course through Zeva and it's really great so far. I'm a terrible meditator and like I just need to move a lot. So sitting very still is difficult for me. She does a really good job at getting, you kind of settled like the other day I was doing it in this chair and I thought I was gonna like fall and smack my head. She just gets you super deep really quickly. But yeah, like the breath work I think is a lot easier. I've talked about this one app a couple times, so have you ever used other ship or do you know anything about it? No. So they were also founded during Covid. So their community was locked down, couldn't do anything. So he started kind of like a social club out of his garage where they had one sauna and they made a cold plunge and then it was just kind of the neighbors and it started scaling out to where all of a sudden it was a hundred people coming to his garage to do breath work together, do the cold plunge and do the sauna. 0 (1h 8m 7s): He's like, there's something here. People are craving it. And he created like an online app where that has really great breathwork in it. So where 1 (1h 8m 14s): Did it start? 0 (1h 8m 16s): I wanna say Canada. Oh this would be really wild. 1 (1h 8m 19s): Yes. 0 (1h 8m 19s): Yeah I know him. Yeah, don't worry. I know. Okay. Yeah we're friends. 1 (1h 8m 23s): That is amazing. So he got referred to me cuz I have a great friend in Canada. I think Christie's the one that recommended me, but we did a whole breathwork class. Oh, oh cool. Yeah, like two and a half years ago. Okay. I do know other ship, super 0 (1h 8m 38s): Small world. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I think he's getting one in Miami and I don't know if the one in New York is open or not, but he's expanding and it's like turning into a thing and who would've thought, right? Just from something where he's like people need to do stuff in person and doing 1 (1h 8m 51s): It's beautiful. We did, we had to do it over zoom but I mean he's in Canada, but yeah, good music too, 0 (1h 8m 55s): Right? Yeah, yeah. The music's awesome. Yeah. Which I loved and it sounds so simple but it really gets you into the place that you need to be. They have like cold plunge breath work that you can do. They have couples stuff, which is really awesome. It gets a little boo, which I totally into. Yeah. Yeah. They have like manifestation breathwork and yeah it's great 1 (1h 9m 13s): We have those at the savings center actually that's what happens. There's a lot of just they had sound bath and breathwork things going on. Yeah. People need to just find a community and do this stuff. 0 (1h 9m 25s): See and that's why I'm like, Austin's the place because it's like that's something that would thrive there and here people kind of look at you like you're crazy. Like oh I have a nice bath, bath out or out back. Like why do you do that? Oh 1 (1h 9m 37s): You are, you belong in Austin. I'm telling you there's thousands and thousands of people that are about this. There's so many communities popping up and I think they should be around the world. I don't wanna just like hype Austin. I mean this should be a movement around the world. Gaye it out. Yeah, well we are trying to see if we can do Sapiens or you know, around the world, but 0 (1h 9m 55s): How does Sapiens differ from like other popular Diets or lifestyles that are out there right now? Like what's your protocol? 1 (1h 10m 1s): Well the thing is it's not down one path, right? It's not paleo or keto or carnivore or Whole 30. It's somewhere in between all of those and it's just based on ancestral health. So paleo is interesting because, well it's like based on this theoretical paleo diet, but then they're just like, oh well you can't have Dairy because we didn't supposedly have Dairy back then. And my stance is, well if you're eating good Raw Dairy from a local grass fed farm and maybe it's great, you know, why do we need to make these arbitrary rules? Dairy's actually hugely important to a ton of the world. If you're looking at all these other countries like India, they don't have, they don't eat a lot of Meat, right? 1 (1h 10m 45s): A lot of the religion doesn't allow Meat, but they're doing okay through Dairy. And there's a lot of studies that I've looked at actually that show how Dairy is very important to a lot of the world just for that Nutrition. Like it's good Nutrition. So yeah, we don't just x out things because of certain rules. The idea of safety and diet and lifestyle is, well like I was saying, what's the 3D chest version? Like what works and what doesn't and why? And it's about about nutrient density. It really, a lot of it comes to nutrient density, right? If you're gonna get kind of nerdy about it. The thing is people don't like to talk about nutrient density. They want to tell you what do I eat? 0 (1h 11m 25s): Yeah. 1 (1h 11m 25s): Like eat a steak. That's why carnivore is popular. It's like just 0 (1h 11m 28s): Eat steak, steak and butter. Yeah, 1 (1h 11m 29s): It's simple and then it works right For a while, 0 (1h 11m 32s): For a while my nanny saw it, she jumped on that train for a day and I was like, oh if you really wanna do it, I was like, and I told her I'm not supporting that but if you wanna do it like ease into it. And she's like, okay, doesn't ease into it and then is sick for the entire 24 hours. And I'm like, what are you doing? And she's like, well I'm just watching these talks that people eating like these massive ribeyes just soaked in butter. I'm like, of course it's gonna make you sick. You gotta, you can't just jump into that 1 (1h 11m 59s): You, well your gallbladder's not ready to digest all that Fat. 0 (1h 12m 2s): That's a lot. 1 (1h 12m 3s): Well so yeah there, there's a lot of different ways to do Diets but it's like you gotta focus on what's real and what's real is nutrient density. And so yes there could be any number of popular Diets that sound good or that can work in the short term, but what works in the long term are Diets that are nutrient Dense. So like what does that mean? Well it's protein and Nutrients, it's your amino acids and vitamins and minerals and then it's energy. So I talked about energy as either Fat or Carbs. So this is kind of this concept that we're gonna put in the film to understand Diets on all levels. It's not just the named Diets. 1 (1h 12m 44s): Like your diet doesn't need a name. Your body doesn need a named diet, it needs Nutrients, it needs protein and vitamins and minerals and it needs the correct amount of energy from Fat or Carbs or both. And so basically whole foods, especially anal foods have that correct nutrient density. It has especially anal foods have bioavailable protein and Nutrients like we were talking about rice and beans, they don't have the full proteins you need together. They kind of do, but foods are just more nutrient Dense in general. So that's why carnivore Diets can work because they have tons of protein and Nutrients and they don't have too much energy unless you're dumping butter on it, then maybe you could get into trouble. 1 (1h 13m 25s): But does that make sense? Kinda this protein that's like nutrient to energy ideas. Like for all of history we ate, we only had whole foods at our disposal and they all kind of had different Nutrients and energy, but as a whole they gave us the correct amount of each. When you start processing foods in this industrial modern way, you basically throw that balance way off. And so you're getting less Nutrients, less protein, less vitamins and minerals and way more energy. You're adding in seeds, you're adding in refined sugars and extra grains and stuff. So a simple reason why those are bad other than you could get into the details of like the microbiome and Gut health and glyphosate and hormones and all these other things, right? 1 (1h 14m 12s): For sure you can get into all that. But in a simple sense you could just say, well you're getting very low Nutrients and too much energy because that's what's cheap and what's food processors make and what has a long shelf life and that's just what people eat and it's not working. So there's this thing called the protein leverage hypothesis. I hope I'm not getting too nerdy here. No, no nerd out. Protein leverage hypothesis is a well established thing in the literature that scientists have discovered that all animals basically any organism eats to get a certain amount of protein. So they started in like crickets or something and they're like these crickets, they gave 'em this M meal like cricket meal and it had the amount of protein they needed, right? 1 (1h 14m 54s): Whatever crickets need 10% protein and they gave it to them and they ate the right amount and they were perfectly good crickets. Then they gave these crickets or mice, I'll use rodents cuz it's easier. Then they gave the mice low protein so it had extra like Carbs or fats, lower protein. The mice just had to eat more of that food to get the protein right? So they did all the math and they're like, okay, these mice who ate the lower protein, basically a version of processed foods, they had to eat more of it to get the same amount of protein. And they did, it's like these mice got 10% protein, their food, they ate the right amount to get this. This mice group had 6% protein. 1 (1h 15m 35s): I'm making up these numbers. They had to eat this much more to get to that 10% mark that they needed. And so I think this is really just a huge example of what went on in the last 50 years since 1980 when we talked about how it skyrocketed since then. And we put out the food pyramid and the dietary guidelines where it's seven to 11 servings of grains as a base. What did that do that lowered? So people are eating less Meat, they're eating more pasta and low Fat products and Carbs and breads and Fat. I don't blame it on Carbs. So now we're getting much lower protein and Nutrients and much higher energy. 1 (1h 16m 15s): So people just had to eat more to get what their body needed. This is what Humans have always known. We just knew we needed the, this amount of protein Nutrients and we instinctively ate till we got there. I don't know if that makes sense. I think so, yeah, because people there, there is more to it because people eat for all kinds of reasons. People eat cuz they're sad or they're lonely or bored. Yeah they eat because it's a social occasion. They eat for all these different reasons. But then I'd say, well yes you ate that, but then why did you eat again? Like why didn't you, if you ate so much of this food, then why aren't you full for the correct amount of time? It goes back to the satiety part. 1 (1h 16m 55s): It goes back to the losing weight is a battle of hunger. So if you are able to eat, if you eat foods that don't have any protein and Nutrients that don't fill you up, then of course you're just gonna eat again, right? So if you are eating the wrong foods, you're gonna lose that battle, right? That's a example of the potato chips. You eat a whole bag of potato chips, right? And 0 (1h 17m 18s): Aren't they designed to do that? Like basically like something about eating something that's crunchy automatically like it we won't trigger the 1 (1h 17m 26s): Satiety sensors in your brain. Yeah, something like that. I think it's a lot of things. There's three things there. There could be that could be the bliss point they call it where they get the right salty, crunchy, Fat, Fat, Fat, Fat, sugary flavor. And then I think the third thing is that there's no protein, there's no, and all the foods that people binge eat on, there's never protein and Nutrients. It's like it's just cupcakes and chips. 0 (1h 17m 50s): Chips and fries, 1 (1h 17m 52s): Fries. And it's just stuff that's like fat and carbs mixed together. There's also this idea that the fat and carbs together is just really dangerous that we're wired to eat that and it's not really found in nature. 0 (1h 18m 4s): Yeah, I was, I think it's in grain brain where they talk about that and then like that can, I think he was saying like that's the main issue that you have and it can lead to the per gut-brain permeability, which then goes into neuro neurodegenerative disorders. But I read that a long time ago. Yeah. So I don't know if that's true. 1 (1h 18m 21s): David Perlmutter. Yeah. Oh, I, I think you kind of mixed two concepts, but yes. Okay. Yes. I mean I, I, a lot of people have been talking about the dangers of eating the high Fat and high Carbs at the same time and then it tricks your brain it, it takes advantage of this kind of evolutionary desire to get energy. Cuz throughout history we didn't always have enough energy to get through the day. And then also, yes, if you're eating these highly refined foods that especially fat and carbs, then you will have blood sugar problems that then that would cause like the brain like type two diabetes would be the main metabolic issue. People call these days, they call it Alzheimer's and dementia type three diabetes, which is oh whoa, it's kind of like being insulin type two diabetes insulin resistance. 1 (1h 19m 6s): And it's basically being insulin resistant of your brain. Like your brain is not getting the, the signal. It's you've basically broken down that signaling that and it can't get glucose so it, it's running out of an energy source because you've fried it. I guess that's a layman's way to say it. 0 (1h 19m 24s): Oh, whoa. Yeah, I haven't heard that. I think only thing I was reading was that if basically if you have low Cholesterol, which is something we've always tried to like aim towards that, that is actually a higher indicator of potentially being at risk for dementia or Alzheimer's. 1 (1h 19m 39s): Your brain needs Cholesterol, it needs saturated Fat. Like this is what the human brain was built on. And yes, it's a huge shame that we told people to avoid it for so long and I think it's causing tons of problems. Yeah. And if you see it in vegans, there's some of these famous vegans that are getting older and their brain is fried. I watched a video of this guy, I won't mention his name, he's a mess. It's, it seems like his, his brain doesn't work anymore. Mm. And it's just, he has no Cholesterol on his brain. He has no, it's, it's just, it needs those fats. 0 (1h 20m 10s): Yeah. My mom will be, will be like, my Cholesterol is a tiny bit high. I'm gonna stop eating this. I was like, no, you need to eat the whole egg. You need to eat the burger. Cuz she's grew up in, you know, body building and egg whites only and lean chicken breast. And I'm like, you're getting older. Like please listen to me and just like eat these things. It's fine. 1 (1h 20m 28s): Well, you know, in elderly people there's actually a, there's a correlation of the higher Cholesterol is the better. So you should show those studies. We gotta dig up those studies. Yeah. That it actually, in the literature, it shows that it is more protective and they have a longer life if they have higher Cholesterol levels. 0 (1h 20m 45s): See she's worried about obviously gaining weight, which I think a lot of them are. But I've heard you say that our, and I've also read this, I can't remember where, but somewhat recently that your metabolism doesn't actually slow down when you age. So if that's true, then what is happening? 1 (1h 21m 0s): Oh, okay. Now you're bringing up Michael Rose. So Dr. Michael Rose is a legendary aging researcher. He was one of the people we just filmed with on our last film tour with 10 people in 10 days. We went to uc Davis where he's just about to retire. He did 50 years of aging research and he did a lot of the famous fruit fly research that kind of showed cuz they, they live very short time. You could do lots of generations and we can look at study aging. And so he basically coined this idea that it's not that your metabolism slows down as you get older, it's that you're less adapted to the modern food environment. Right. And that the modern food and environment. So modern diet and lifestyle is bad for all people, but you can get away with it more when you're younger. 1 (1h 21m 42s): That's kind of the idea. It kind of flips it on the head. It's not that your metabolism slows down, it's that you could get away with things more when you're younger and certain people can get away with it longer. That's kind of what's, you know, you're like, oh, well this guy, he's just eating whatever he wants and he's fine. Well maybe he does have, you know, some better genetics of being able to be adapted to the modern diet and lifestyle, but it still will catch up to you eventually. And so his idea for one of his ideas is that we can live a lot longer than we think. And that he, he wrote a book called Does Aging Stop? And his idea is that it, it can kind of, you can kind of coast if you are eating the correct diet and lifestyle, which means going back to our roots, you know, these, these ancestral Diets, then we can sort of coast and maybe we can live a lot longer if we don't, you know, have some cancer or some, well maybe you don't even get cancer, but you, you can just keep living longer and longer. 1 (1h 22m 40s): And that his ideas, Hey, maybe our ancestors lived way longer. We, we just don't even know. 0 (1h 22m 45s): Well I mean that's kind of Peter a Tia has worked right? Is Longevity and like kind of bio like, for lack of better words, it's like biohacking or optimizing your way there so that you can coast. And the way that he's kind of explained it is you are able to function at like the 50th or even higher percentile even into old age. And then like the last year or or so is where you see the decline. And that right now is kind of inevitable. But like the, this drastic like the chronic back pain that we talked about earlier, like doesn't have to be part of the equation. You just have to like do the proper protocol in order to have that healthy Longevity. Yeah. 1 (1h 23m 23s): You just talk about extending your health span is a big thing that we're all in Peter's into. Everyone's into. It's that someone actually asked me this, I showed the intro, my film at South by well small little south by thing. And someone was like, well we're living a lot longer now. I, you know, we're, we're doing fine. We're living so much longer. It's like, yeah, we're dying longer just because we are propped up in nursing homes and we have crazy medications and you know, protocols to save people's lives. That is not good. We wanna be, we wanna be healthy longer. This is what he's talking about. We want a longer health span, not necessarily a super long lifespan if you're stuck in a home. Have you heard of Mark Sissen? I don't think so. He's a legend. Mark Sissen is 68 and he's the fittest guy I know he's ripped, he's plays ultimate Frisbee with 20 year olds. 1 (1h 24m 8s): We went and filmed with him, he's in Miami, he's living his best life. He's out there paddle boarding like in the sun. He's, he's just the man. He's started Primal Kitchen. Primal Kitchens 0 (1h 24m 17s): Had a big brand. Okay, yeah, yeah. They just had an exit. 1 (1h 24m 20s): Yeah. Now he's just hanging out in Miami doing what I just said. Yeah. He's actually started my journey when I, my journey started about nine years ago, right when I was about 30. I read his book and it's called The Primal Blueprint. And he kind of just said all this stuff. He's like, yeah, cut out seed oils and refined grains and added sugar and eat more Meat and you're good. 0 (1h 24m 44s): Yeah. It sounds too simple though. When you say you're like, well what's, what else are you holding out? There's 1 (1h 24m 51s): Something else's. That's what people do. That's all the people I know Austin people come to the Saving Center and they're, they're just like, is this a different breed of human? Why is everyone look so good? Why is everyone so healthy and happy and vibrant? Like, I don't know, we just eat Meat and Whole Foods on the side and we hang out together. I don't know. And we do a little workout once in a while. 0 (1h 25m 11s): I see a huge movement for the Raw Dairy that you've brought up. So why is that illegal? 1 (1h 25m 17s): Oh that it's like all things that big institutions touch and big governments, it's always bad for the individual. It's good for them to have control and you know, I say control loosely like control. If you're trying to control or manage hundreds of millions of people, you have to just do stuff like have all these rules about, we have to pasteurize Dairy because you know, back in the day, 80 years ago, they didn't have perfect sanitation and there was like listeria or you know, there was some problem with the milk and someone got sick. So now we're pasteurizing it, which gets rid of all of the Nutrients and all the enzymes you need not, doesn't get rid of all the Nutrients, it gets rid of most of the enzymes. 1 (1h 26m 2s): You need it, it's denature some of the Nutrients and get rid of a lot of the enzymes you need to digest it. So that's why some people think they're lactose intolerant, but they eat Raw Dairy and they can handle it because it has the enzymes that it needs. Your body needs to digest it. But I kind of get it. I don't agree with it, but I kind of get it. They're just saying, Hey, we need to not have people sick and we're just gonna have all these rules. And then big business kind of prop pops up around it. It's like now we're paying all these people, you know, it's a, it's kind of just these big like tax dollars just going to things and then all of a sudden you have all these rules about Meat and you, you know, there's Meat processing rules and there's, there's rules about everything. Now 0 (1h 26m 41s): Texas has loopholes though around buying and selling Meat. Right? So it's like the only state in the country where you can directly buy from someone or something like that. 1 (1h 26m 50s): Actually, I don't know all that, but it's, there's something 0 (1h 26m 52s): Good there. There's something special about the way you can purchase Meat in Texas. 1 (1h 26m 55s): Yeah. And it's interesting that like half the states you can buy Raw milk in half, you can't. And Texas just changed it. It's kind of recently where you can get Raw Dairy, but it has to be from the owner of the cow. It has to be from the farmer. Okay. But you can do like pickup points. So it's like you can have a milk pickup point and 0 (1h 27m 12s): It's hysterical though. Yeah. Kind of like a prohibition work around on milk, which sounds ridiculous. 1 (1h 27m 18s): No, I know people that pick it up in church parking lots, like they do like shady deals, you know, it's, it's real. 0 (1h 27m 25s): So is is the A two any better as far as a nutrient density or that's just more for digestive, like easier 1 (1h 27m 32s): Digestion? That's a protein, yeah, it's just a different type of protein and yes, I think a two is better. 0 (1h 27m 36s): Okay. Yeah, we switched to that. I'm like, I don't know if it's gonna be significant or not, but I heard it's better so let's try it out. 1 (1h 27m 42s): Yes. 0 (1h 27m 44s): Well this was incredible. You would never know that you didn't sleep. You've been traveling all day. 1 (1h 27m 50s): Oh 0 (1h 27m 50s): Yeah. Before we close out, do you wanna tell the viewers and listeners like where they can follow you, any projects you're working on, how they can support you, all that good stuff? 1 (1h 27m 58s): Absolutely. Should I talk to the camera? Yeah. 0 (1h 28m 1s): Hey, break the 1 (1h 28m 2s): Wall. Food lies. Food lies. I'm everywhere. I'd food lies. So my Instagram is food dot lies. I have a YouTube channel called Food Lies. Gotta watch that intro. I'm telling you, we made almost every one of those shots that took a long time. People, it's funny cuz I walk around and and tell people I'm making a documentary and they're kinda like, oh cool, no one's gonna watch it. Like their, their thought is no one's gonna watch it. And I'm saying, no, we're going big, we're going to Netflix or Amazon Prime, HBO go. We have a lot of interest lately. We're going big. This is a real thing. So check that out on the YouTube and then yeah, I nose to tail.org, my Meat, you can get it shipped to you. And yeah, peak Human podcast as well. 1 (1h 28m 43s): I got too many things. 0 (1h 28m 45s): No, never. Yeah, diversify. Yeah. Yeah. Well this is awesome. Before you guys close out, make sure you hit that like subscribe, leave a five star review if you have it in a while. And if you wanna support the podcast, you can go to Chatting with Candice dot com and click that little link that says Buy me a coffee. See you next week.