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William Reusch was born and raised in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. He never had an interest in academics and struggled to connect what he was learning in school to building a successful and meaningful life. We all enjoy being capable, informed, and equipped, yet the system designed to provide those traits seems to fail for so many young people. It was in the pursuit to improve this that Will decided to become a teacher.
In this episode, Candice Horbacz and Will Reusch delve into the dynamics of education, societal shifts, and evolving norms. This insightful conversation explores sex education, parental roles, and the importance of fostering open discussions in schools that includes parents. Uncover collaborative efforts between home and school, spotlighting Will Reusch's innovative initiative aimed at transforming scalable and impactful educational experiences.
00:00 - Intro
3:59 - School system disconnect
9:40 - Matt Walsh And Candace Owens
13:58 - Dylan Vs Buck Angel
17:50 - LGBTQ indoctrination in schools
30:38 - Is compassion the answer?
37:16 - Candace Owens
40:16 - Indoctrination Camp - Schools
45:37 - Education with AI
46:32 - DEI in schools
55:01 - The WHY of content creation
1:00:1 - Candace Owens on Whatever
1:05:37 - scapegoat for society
1:12:02 - Cost of doing po*n
1:20:26 - Porn and casual sex
1:29:22 - Compulsion issue with porn
1:32:51 - Why does sex exist?
1:38:30 - Ending
Will Reusch’s Website: www.williamreusch.com
Follow Candice Horbacz on socials: https://linktr.ee/candicehorbacz
0 (0s): I love a lot of what Matt Walsh says. I love a lot of his content. It's funny, like his deadpan is hilarious, but then you saw his Dylan Mulvaney take, and that was the one that you kind of commentated on and I couldn't agree with more with your response. It 1 (15s): Wasn't loving, he was trying his best to hurt this person. 0 (19s): Why is the, the knee jerk response, like the parent's not gonna accept them, the parent's gonna be abusive. We assume the worst out of the parent. Why is that the first call? 1 (27s): I think that there's this narrative that like, people want to kill trans people. 0 (31s): Educating children, is teaching them how a group of Germans was told definitively to other, another group to the point of, of mass genocide. And then that's education is understanding how all of these tiny little drops in a bucket can create something so atrocious. I think 1 (51s): The education system, if you look at the history from like the Prussian army and like the Rockefeller and stuff, it's a, it's an obedience model. 0 (57s): You see everything that's happening with AI and how fast it's all developing. Imagine history class where you're being, where you're able to kind of have ar like an ar experience or a VR experience and actually talk to Washington and actually like be a, a bystander on the lines of war. Who's gonna 1 (1m 13s): Program it? Because you start this stuff going on with like Google AI and stuff like that. Are they gonna program it to where George Washington like, hi, I'm George Washington. I am a slave owning terrible person. 0 (1m 24s): I would argue that men don't haven't known what intimacy is for a long time, way beyond the internet and way beyond porn, men were told not to have feelings. Not allowed to have feelings. Makes you a play. Hello everybody. You are listening or watching Chatting with Candace. I'm your host, Candace Horbacz. Before we jump into the episode, just a little bit of housekeeping for the podcast. If you wanna support the podcast, you can go to Chatting with Candace dot com, click that little link that says, buy me a coffee, or sign up for our Patreon account where you will get early access to episodes and a chance to ask our guests some questions. I wanna do a couple of quick shout outs for everyone that has bought coffee since the last time I've checked. 0 (2m 4s): So I wanna say a big thank you to, oh my gosh, some of these are hard to read. Where's my, my mouse Lo I'm just gonna say loaded. Mark KA couple of times. Billy, Chris m and Rich. Thank you so much. All of that goes right back into the podcast. We actually are doing an in-person show in a couple of weeks, so you are helping me out with that immensely. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. What else do we have? Make sure you hit that like and subscribe button. It lets you know when I update, obviously I am not very diligent. It's not every single Wednesday on the nose. So for someone like me, it is wildly important that you have the notifications on so that when we drop an episode, you don't miss out. 0 (2m 50s): I think that's all of the housekeeping for the front end. Our guest today is William Rouge. We met on Instagram. He's an educator. He is a disruptor, and I'm so excited that we got to sit down for this conversation. I think it's worth, worth listening to, to the end. It gets a little spicy and it's cool because we have different lenses on a couple of topics and I think it's a great example of how you can really be friends with someone and not agree on every single thing. And that is how really interesting friendships bloom and blossom and thrive. So, without full further ado, please help me welcome William Rouge. 0 (3m 31s): Will welcome to the podcast. It's great to have you. Do you like Will or William? 1 (3m 35s): Will, will works 0 (3m 36s): Will, yeah. Okay. I'll make a note of that for the, for the Intro. But yeah, I'm so glad we're finally doing this. 1 (3m 42s): Yeah, thank you for giving me like a, a chance to have this conversation. As we were just saying, like, I love having conversations with people that have different perspectives and as if we can just talk about, you know, the school system in any way. I'm, I'm here for it. So 0 (3m 55s): I know and my team's like, you gotta stop talking about schools and kids. It just, it's not what's catching and we need to get you talking about relationships and sex and of course that stuff pops off. But what is so ironic is I had this video go wildly viral and it's me talking about parenting and like, what to feed your kids. Yeah. It's at like almost 7 million views right now. I was like, see, follow your curiosity. Don't like no one can tell you what to talk about because I think what resonates more than any topic is just authenticity. 1 (4m 28s): Yeah. And I mean, can't that all be kind of like, how do we do sex ed in schools? Is it done properly? Can we do it better? I think there's a way to, to link all the things that people are interested in. Why don't we do that at a younger age? You know, all these Tim Ferris, Joe Rogan, Chris Williamson, Lex Friedman podcast, whatever, they're all like about education essentially, but no one's talking about the school system, which is supposed to be about education. So it just seems like a huge disconnect for me. 0 (4m 53s): Oh, well I am in the thick of education right now, so my oldest is four, so we're still, I feel like I have this clock that says I have a year until we are really kind of getting into maybe kindergarten. And this is something to maybe ask you as well, which is there's this movement of delaying boys going to kindergarten specifically and how it's supposed to be really beneficial for them. So to hold off where you would typically do it at five, you would actually have them do kindergarten at six instead. 1 (5m 25s): 'cause boys like develop later. 0 (5m 27s): Yeah, they develop later and it gives them the chance to be, they say, especially for the kids that might be on the younger side, that actually putting them towards more a leadership role because they'll be older is more beneficial for them, especially with sports and things like that. 1 (5m 41s): Yeah. I don't know, what are your, what are your thoughts on that? I think that sometimes we can like kind of micromanage all these little things so much when it comes to like the right way to parent or like if you, you know, breastfeed your kids versus like, when my wife had our, had our boys, like, we dove into that world of like, it's vicious about breastfeeding versus bowel. Like people are so, so certain that this is like the right way and if you do it this way, you're gonna screw up your kids if you put your kid in too early. I just, I don't, I don't really buy into that. I've, I've been teaching in them, I've been in the classroom for like 18 years, so I've seen kids from all kinds of backgrounds who were, you know, done. It was done terribly, done terribly and done perfectly. And it doesn't, it's it doesn't necessarily like align up as, as easily as we, we wish it did, I guess is what I'm saying. 0 (6m 27s): Yeah. You want one causal factor. If I do this one thing perfectly and my kid is gonna be happy, healthy, successful, all of the things. But there are so many things that develop character and success and resilience and grit and not all of it unfortunately is in our control or maybe fortunately, but we, there's this clip and this guy, it's this parenting, I think it's parenting advice. And he's sitting there saying, it's like the blank slate theory. So nature versus nurture. And near the end of the conversation he says, so we kind of know now it is not a blank slate, it's about 50 50 from the data that we have. So open up a bottle of wine, pour yourself a glass and enjoy the best show on earth. 1 (7m 11s): Yeah, I mean that's gotta, that's gotta resonate with your children too. Are you like enjoying life? Are you stressing about every little thing? I mean there's, there's so just so many factors. It's not like, wow, you have a, an amazing 40-year-old child now you know, you're an old lady or an old man, whatever. And then it's like, well that's because I enrolled 'em in kindergarten a year late. Like it doesn't, that doesn't, 0 (7m 31s): You 1 (7m 31s): Know, there's so many factors every single day you can make good decisions and bad decisions. You just try and make more, you know, deposits of good decisions and than your bad ones as a parent, because we're gonna screw up our kids in so many ways, I'm sure. 0 (7m 43s): Oh, absolutely. No one's perfect. And I think it's also offering yourself grace in those moments as a parent. Because if you're expecting perfection out of yourself, it's probably going to downstream affect your children and then they're going to expect perfection out of themselves. And it's an impossible task. And I think the difference is to have that as the aim, knowing that you'll never attain it. But that's kind of the driving force for self-improvement. A one incremental percent difference per of growth and advancement every single day if you, if that's possible for you. So it's not that you are expecting to achieve perfection, but just recognizing that you can always do better. 1 (8m 19s): Yeah. Yeah. I love the idea of an aim. You said an aim, like, I know we talk, you talk about religion sometimes and things like that. Like I love the idea of like aiming for the ideal, but knowing that you're not gonna achieve it, but at least you have a target that you can kind of work for and you're constantly like, how do I be a better parent? How do I, you know, nurture my kids more? Am I hugging 'em too much, not enough, you know, all that kind of stuff. As long as you're just like conscious. That's a big thing that I try and do in my classroom is just have my students be conscious. You know, one of the things I tell him Candace is like, I would rather, you know, I don't want you to cheat, but I would rather you go, Hmm, I could look at my friend's paper right next to, should I, should I look? I don't know. I know it's kind of wrong, but I need to get a good grade if I get into college, it'd be good for my, so screw it. 1 (8m 60s): Yeah. I'm gonna look, I'd rather that than just not even think about it and j and just look or not even contemplate. Like, I just want them to be off of autopilot. And I see a lot of young people on autopilot kind of just going through life and I want them to be conscious thinkers. 0 (9m 13s): Unfortunately, that's what gets clicks though, right? It's the no matter what team you're on, it's, we agreed on this one ideology and we are just gonna say that that is definitively the only way to live life, the only way to exist and the only way to be successful or happy. And I think other than that is, is wrong and we all wanna belong. So we kind of just tend to go with these group identities. And one of the videos that you had sent was actually you talking about religion Christianity, and you were using a Matt Walsh clip that I saw. And it's funny because I feel I love a lot of what Matt, Matt Walsh, Mo Matt Walsh says, I love a lot of his content. 0 (9m 56s): It's funny, like his deadpan is hilarious and he's definitely contributed I think a lot to opening people's eyes and how crazy some of the trans ideology is with his, you know, document series that he did or documentary that he did with Daily Wire that what is a woman Awesome and necessary. Yeah. But then you saw his Dylan Mulvaney take and that was the one that you kind of commentated on and I couldn't agree with more with your response because, and I get, I'm sure you can imagine I get a lot of the flack from certain communities and that some of them are these really pious, holier than thou Christians and they cast so many stones. 0 (10m 38s): I constantly feel like I'm in a modern day witch burning and I can't help but see the hypocrisy because I'm, I'm not a Christian. I believe in God, I'm a spiritual person. And people will laugh when you say spiritual because that has gotten a bad rep as well. I don't think that you should be defining someone else's spiritual path or what they should believe, because if you are gonna tell me that you are the only one that has God figured out, I immediately know that you're full of shit. But what I do know is that there are several countless references in the Bible in holy text that are saying you aren't supposed to judge none of going back to none of us are perfect. 0 (11m 19s): So I don't understand how these people can get on their, on their high horse and sit there and make public judgements around other people and how they're living their lives. Or in Matt Walsh's example with that video, just be cruel. Like you can say a truth. And I think the truth is so important. I don't think that sugarcoating it is kindness or compassion. I think it's the opposite of those things. But I think when you use cruelty instead of what could be good judgment, I don't think even all judgment is bad. Like judgment with the sense of improvement, self betterment, trying to help someone recognize a wrongdoing versus judgment to just dunk on somebody or be cruel or one up or prove a point. 1 (12m 1s): Yeah, I think the reason that bothered me is probably a similar thing to you is like he puts the label out there that he's a Christian speaker, he's a Christian person, and I am, I, I like adopted Christianity pretty late in life. I mean, like a year and a half ago I got like backed Wow as an adult and stuff like that. It was like, it was a long process to get me there. But you know, it's the, the biggest message. At one point in the Bible day I asked Jesus, like, which commandment iss the most important one? He said like, love your neighbor. Like loving each other is the most important one. And what Matt Walsh does, I think it, I agree with you. I think it's important. I think there's a lot of stuff in trans ideology that's, that's crazy. And I've had like nine different transgender people on my podcast to talk to 'em because I'm just curious activists and like maga hat wearers and stuff like that who were all trans. 1 (12m 47s): But you know, it wasn't loving, he was trying his best to hurt this person. And that's a it that, that upsets me way more than someone who's not like a believer or who doesn't align with Christianity doing that stuff. Because again, I talk about the ideal, like I just, I like being a Christian just because I like having like a, an example, you know, if I'm giving like a homework assignment to my students, I'm like, this is a project where you have to do a report on the war of 1812 or something, you know, and it's like, this is last year's report. This is a, a plus from the best student ever aim for that, you know? And so I think that when you, when you put yourself out there as a Christian, you have to try your best to live the way that Jesus said to live. 1 (13m 31s): And that was not what he did. But what did, what did, what did Jesus, you know, when I posted that people were like, you know, Jesus flipped over tables and things like that. He was angry. Yeah, but with who? With the Pharisees, with the religious people. He went after the religious people way more than anyone else. And they said that he was wrong and blah, blah blah. And they're the ones who killed him. So he had the biggest tension with the religious people. So, you know, I, that, that bothered me on a whole bunch of different levels. Also, if, if you do believe that these people who are trans, like Dylan Mulvaney, if you're gonna say Dylan Mulvaney is sick and there you can make that argument that has some sort of mental illness, some sort of narcissistic, you know, mental illness, whatever, you know, I've had like Buck Angel on my podcast, dude, 0 (14m 12s): I love 1 (14m 12s): Buck. He's the best. Yeah. And he says like upfront, he's like, you know, I have a mental disorder. Yeah. So if you say someone has a mental disorder and then you in the next breath ridicule them for having a mental disorder, I mean pull that back, apply that to all kinds of mental disorders, that's really dark stuff. So I just, I just wanted to call that out. I'm not on like Matt Walsh's radar or anything like that, but like, I think that that's, that just really bothered me. 'cause it's gonna pull people away from something that I think is really beautiful. It's been great for me. 0 (14m 40s): Well the one thing that I think differentiates some, and there are a lot of things that differentiates someone like Buck versus Dylan, is that Buck is, Buck is just so transparent and honest and just himself like, he, like he's not trying to push anything on anyone. It is like, leave me alone, I'll leave you alone. And we can both recognize these pillars of reality still, which are so fundamental where I think with Dylan, and obviously I'm not a doctor, so take this with like a handful of salt, but it doesn't seem to be the same thing. Like I wouldn't think that Dylan has gender dysphoria. 0 (15m 21s): I think it's more narcissism, like you said. And I think that there's probably more sympathy for certain ailments where narcissism doesn't seem to have any sympathy online. Because I, and again, I don't know how much of this is within a person's control or not, and how much of is of it is conscious, but it kind of seems like a very Machiavellian kind of dark triad trait. Like, I'm just going to take, and I'm very selfish. And I think that's the difference is Buck is just trying to be Buck. Dylan is trying to be famous. 1 (15m 51s): Yeah. Yeah. And it's a, it's a fast track to being like called a hero. And, but we're seeing that in schools now too, just to transition back into education. Like that's a real thing is for kids who are, they might be on the spectrum, they might just be, you know, oddballs. Like, there's a lot of oddballs and I, I love the oddballs, you know, like they're, they're fun, but it's like a way to, I'm not accepted, I'm not accepted, I'm not accepted. No one likes me. But if I take on this personality trait, then I am a hero. You know, Abigail Schreyer book is pretty interesting about that. About a lot of girls transitioning and the social contagion element. I was talking to a teacher friend of mine who's in Maryland, I'm not sure, man or woman at the school. Someone transitioned, one of the teachers transitioned and then by the end of the year they transitioned the beginning of the year. 1 (16m 32s): By the end of the year, like five kids in their class, like fourth grade, five kids or something like that. Like, we're now like non-binary or transitioning. Whoa. Like there is clear evidence to show that it's a social contagious element. Like if you look at like the, the instances of like childhood transition, it's like a hockey stick. Like it's going up a lot. So we have to understand what that is. It can't just be like now they feel comfortable to do it. That's not, that's just, that's just an assumption. Let's get some science behind, some social science behind this. But that's a concern. 'cause I had Chloe, Chloe Cole on my podcast as well. Mm. I'm familiar with her story, but she was autistic and transitioned and, you know, got a double mastectomy at like 15 or something like that. And then at 16 realized like, oh wait, I'm not trans, I'm I'm autistic. 1 (17m 15s): It's a, it's a terrible, I mean the, the conversation I was like holding back tears the whole time. It was such a sad story. And she gets no sympathy. Same way Buck, who was like a real pioneer, the first person to get top surgery in LA I think he said like the 19 early 1990s, and now he's a trans phobe. And now Chloe Cole, this child who went through this horrible traumatic thing, it gets no sympathy. Like our, we're so different in the way that we apply empathy. This person gets empathy, but not this person, you know, like this group gets empathy, but not that group. It's, it's really, it's really weird. I don't, I don't, I don't like it. I'm just trying to have conversations, try and understand it more and help people see that kind of stuff. 0 (17m 51s): So is it really as bad as social media says it is in schools, like are kids, are kids, first of all hearing this information, talking about gender as a spectrum? Sex is a spectrum. You gender fluidity so you can be male this day and female this other day. Kind of how Neil deGrasse Tyson talked about it and then are they, are they taking this in as fact? So are they hearing it and are they believing it? 1 (18m 19s): So I'm in like the, you know, Instagram world too. So like, I'm like, oh, okay, so this might be overblown. Here's why don't believe that it is. I have a lot of people in my life that know I'm a teacher, but don't know that I have a social media account, a podcast or anything like that. They just know me as like will like the teacher and they tell me these stories. I have like cousins in Massachusetts who don't know anything that I do online. And they're telling me about how, you know, their daughters are coming home saying like, is it okay that I'm a girl? I have friends that live in Long Beach out here who don't know, don't follow any of my stuff. They're talking about how their kids are, are in like fourth grade and reading some like book about their trans uncle and trying to, you know, get people to, to realize that you don't have to be a binary. So it's, yeah, I think it's a lot, you know, I think it's a lot. 1 (19m 2s): I think that kids are getting a lot of information from TikTok. And I also think that teachers, when it comes down, I think a big part of it is teachers are like a soft-hearted lot. Like, we're just like, we're, we're school teachers. We love, you know, we're like all that kind of like openness, loving, accepting kind, kind of personality. So if someone, you know, is going down that road of like, Hey, I'm a part of this marginalized group, it just makes you want to accept them and hug them, you know, metaphorically just like envelop them in like this like loving embrace and you're scared that their parents won't accept them. You know, I've had kids whose parents abuse them and things like that. So you want to keep that from them. 'cause you don't want their parents to hurt 'em or hurt their feelings or anything like that. So I think it's, it's like misguided compassion on a lot of teachers to just kind of let this stuff go as opposed to just asking them questions about it. 1 (19m 49s): But I, I think it's, I think it's, it's happening a lot. I really do. And I don't know, I know what's happening, like in my classroom, in my school and then my friends, classroom schools I'm in like different cohorts of like, of and groups and stuff like that of different teachers. And it's happening. Yeah, it is. 0 (20m 6s): Well with that, 'cause that's a common argument that you hear. So they'll say, well, the reason that we aren't telling the parents that we change the child's name or change the child's pronouns is we're scared of the parent's response. I guess why is the initial reaction that you're, that not you specifically more like the collective view as far as teachers and administrator, administrators go, why is the, the kneejerk response, like the parent's not gonna accept them, the parent's gonna be abusive, the parent is you, we, we assume the worst out of the parent. Why is that the first call? 1 (20m 40s): I think it's, again, it's the narrative that's being sewn about, about like the, the thing you hear over and over again is like, trans people are being killed on the street, you know, know trans people are being killed left and right. Like, you break down even that data New York Times, it was like a couple of years ago, and I can't find the article, but it's something along the lines of, they were talking about all these rabbis were getting beat up in Brooklyn and it was something like for like, like Orthodox Jews were being attacked in hate crimes four to one for against black, black people hate crimes in New York City and 20 to one for trans people. But again, it's like that empathy thing. I don't know, people just had like less, less empathy or sympathy for like the, the, the Jewish community for whatever reason. But I think that there's this narrative that like, people want to kill trans people as opposed to just like, you know, like, well, you know, do your own thing or you know, I don't know. 1 (21m 31s): I mean there, there, there are gonna be a lot of parents I'm sure who are upset with that kind of stuff. But I'm in Los Angeles. I don't know, I mean, I kind of see the opposite. I see a lot of parents who are like, check out my trans kid. Like they're really proud of it. But I think there was that need for protection. There was, you know, the author Glennon Doyle, 0 (21m 48s): It sounds familiar, but I can't think of some, I 1 (21m 50s): Never read her book, but like, she posted a meme, she's like very famous author, but she posted a meme and it was like of a, of a like a mountain lion mom, like growling, like snarling. And then a, a couple of her cubs behind her. And it said the cubs were labeled like LGBTQ children. And then the, the mother line was like me. And it's that flip side of empathy, you know, it's like the empathy that, that you wanna care for the ones who are, who are helpless, it's why we have it in like our, our DNA, but it's also the mother bear. It's like, if this person's helpless, I'm going to be the most vicious thing you can imagine to protect them. So I think that that the teachers take on that role of like the mother bear of like, I gotta protect this kid because oh, you're a marginalized person now that means you're helpless. 1 (22m 34s): That means I need to protect you. Whether or not there's a real threat or not. I mean, you get mulled by the bear and you have no intention of hurting her cubs, but she sees you as a threat. I think it's something along those lines. Does that, does that, if that makes sense. 0 (22m 44s): Yeah. And I guess to that, it's when do we start realizing that we're no longer in 1964? So we have pride month, there's a rainbow flag on everything, you know, pretty much all summer now. 'cause it extends, I forget who was talking about it last summer, the why was it pride month, let's just make it the summer of pride. And you have 30% of the high school aged children now identifying as something within that umbrella of the alphabet. So is it still marginalized? Because there was this, I follow, I'm friends with Scott Barry Kaufman, and he, I don't know if you're familiar with his work. He is the biggest bleeding heart. 0 (23m 25s): He is such a sweet man. And he made this post of this high school kid and I guess went by non-binary and don't know the circumstances. I didn't look into the story, but I was there beat up in the bathroom. Yeah. Got beat up in a bathroom and, and died. And so the way that Scott Scott's tweet went was, you know, just showing sympathy, compassion, sadness for this person. And kind of the way that it was interpreted by the internet was that he was saying the reason this person died was because of how they identified and the this person died in, in the bathroom. I guess the cause of death isn't known. So we don't know yet. 0 (24m 5s): And I guess this person also started the fight. That's what's being alleged. I, again, I didn't look into the story personally, but this was just through the comments and someone else brought up the statistic. Well, if, you know, 30% of people are identifying as non-binary or trans or whatever the thing is, you can't automatically assume that the reason that the bullying is taking place is because of this anymore, because it is so prevalent. So at what point are we gonna kind of recognize that culture is shifting and not necessarily put people into a victim category who maybe traditionally would have been there but doesn't really apply anymore. 1 (24m 40s): Yeah. That it's a, it's a sad story and it happens, unfortunately, like fairly often kids get beat up. Remember like two years ago there was this whole push for like critical race theory about like, is it being taught in schools? Is it, so the way, if I can explain this, like it'll take like a minute, but like it critical race theory essentially is, you know, starting law schools essentially it's like these lenses that you put on to look at law to see is there racism baked in the law that's not, you know, overt. So I always use the war on drugs as a perfect example. So the War on Drugs was started with, you know, Nixon and John Ehrlichman, who was his head advisor, said, this is like a way for us to lock up black people and hippies and blah, blah, blah, blah. So it's like upfront. And then you look at the war on drug, you look at the, the way that senses are pushed down. 1 (25m 23s): You look at the, even like rolling friars work on, on how, you know, black people are pulled over more and harassed more and stopped more. You still look at stop and frisk statistics in New York, all that kind of stuff. So you look at like, okay, so a lot of black people are being incarcerated. That was how it was intended, but it's just that we're on drugs. But that's a good example of like how if you look for racism in this area where it might not exist, you might find it. That's, I think that it's useful. I was on like Fox News and they were like, this is all nonsense, right? I'm like, it's not nonsense. It's, it's, it's a useful tool. But then what you have to do is you go, you put on these lenses and then you take them off and you do some real data analysis and social science to see is that true? You know, Michelle Obamas same way with this, with this poor kid who was killed. But like Michelle Obama said, like she was at in line with a ba in a bakery and she had like a mask and sunglasses on or something, and a white man butted in front of her because that's what happens if you're a black woman in society. 1 (26m 12s): It's like, maybe that guy's just an asshole. Like maybe he took what's in front of people. But if you choose to see everything through this lens of racism or transphobia, then you're gonna find it everywhere. Every, every time someone cuts you off, it's because you're a trans person. Every, and you're just gonna see all of these, like these bad elements, you know, its racism and sexism and homophobia coming at you in all ways that you can't live like that. You're gonna see the world in such a dark way. Maybe this kid was beat up because they were, you know, non-binary, but maybe not. But the headlines I saw on it, it was all like, Republicans are pushing this kind of stuff in Oklahoma. So it's like, let's blame it on the politicians, not even on the kids who beat up this kid. 1 (26m 53s): Not like, it's, it's just using it using this terribly tragic story as like a political tool. And that, that stuff really is, is is annoying because we don't know. 0 (27m 3s): Yeah, yeah. We don't know. And the, if I was a parent and my kid, I'm sending my kid to be taken care of by, essentially by government, right? 'cause it's a public school and by adults I'd expect my kid to come home safe sound without a scratch or some crazy trauma that they just went through. And the amount of bullying that happens is just insane. And it, it's inexcusable. But I don't understand, I don't know like how is this hap like how is this happening? You have adults that are supposed to be watching the kids and being able to intervene early hopefully and not to punish. I think this is where a lot of people get it wrong. It's, we are so focused on punishment. And I think it's interesting 'cause you could kind of tie it back to puritanical roots, right? 0 (27m 47s): So when the Puritans first kind of settled here, virtually all of the laws that were established, the very first laws of the land were to punish quote sinners. So it was anyone who wasn't a fanatic. And obviously most people, if not all people were religious back then. There was a difference between the Puritans and the Christians. The Christians did not like the Puritans, the Puritans did not like the Christians because they thought the Puritans were like out of their minds. But the Puritans were the ones that established the law. And pretty much all of the laws were to punish people that weren't as fundamental as they were. So we have this like embedded rooted, I like almost like hypnosis to punish rather than to teach. And I feel like nothing is really truly taught or understood through punishment. 0 (28m 30s): Like yes, I, the behavior might be corrected if I go to do something and you whack me with a belt, I'm probably gonna stop doing that thing after two or three times. But did I learn anything and do I actually want to change my behavior for a higher purpose? So to be able to intervene in these bullying situations, not punish the kid, but like sit them down and teach, teach them diplomacy and how to have like conversation, how to get over differences. And I think that we see that, you know, when the chickens come home to roost and you can't have people that disagree on anything to even sit across from each other because then all of a sudden you're gonna start duking it out. So it's how do we fix the behavior on like a real fundamental level? 1 (29m 8s): Yeah. And so, I mean, but Bullying's always existed. I mean, I don't know who, who do you know that wasn't bullied in school? I mean, it's crazy, you know? And especially like 0 (29m 17s): The bullies. Yeah, 1 (29m 18s): Yeah. I mean, but even the bullies were probably bullied by their big brother or something like that. I mean, you see it when you're a teacher. You see like, oh, the bully's the one who really needs a hug like that. That's the kid who's really, they learn that behavior from somewhere. You know? It's really, really sad. The story of like these bullies that I've, that I've seen over the years. It's, it's so heartbreaking. You know? It doesn't excuse their behavior, but it kind of explains it a little bit. But yeah, I mean the corporal punishment thing, it, if it worked it, we would do it, but it doesn't work. You know, it's just like, you know, hitting someone for, for hitting as a punishment, for hitting somebody. Just the kids see through that, they're like, that doesn't, that doesn't make any sense. Just 'cause you're bigger and stronger than me. So it's a lot about, about, you know, feel, you know, the empathy of like, how did this make this person feel? 1 (29m 60s): And stuff like that. But the teachers can't do that. The schools can't do that on their own, you know, like I have access to my students for one hour a day, you know, like at home is where they're really are learning this stuff. And adults do all kinds of terrible bullying. Look at, look at online, look at the stuff you probably get, you know, like, yeah, how is that their parents are doing that now, whether or not their kid sees the stuff that they might say it, they know that the who their parent is and how they deal with people that, that challenge them in some sort of way. So that's, we, there's only so much I can do with my time with that student, but so, you know, a lot of it falls on the, on the, on the parents. I, I think when it comes to the way that they're treating other people, I mean, people treat other people terribly all the time. 1 (30m 40s): You go into a Starbucks, people are like I said, two Stevias, not one you stupid. Oh my gosh. But then again, you wanna give that guy a hug, that crazy lady who's like screaming and blah, blah, blah and calling Nate's like, she needs a hug. You know? And maybe that's just because like, I'm like a, a Jesus person now. I don't know, I always thought this way, but you definitely see through it so clearly, even with adults, you know? 0 (31m 3s): Yeah. It's just a bunch of toddlers running around having tantrums. Yeah. And, and they're big feelings as we call them in this house. Like, oh, that person's having big feelings right now. Yeah. 1 (31m 13s): And when you have kids, isn't that cool how, how, like, you grow up, like I have a nine, seven and two and like my 2-year-old now, like before two, he was like, he was like perfect. He was like sinless, you know? But now he's starting to be able to make, he's like a little bit conscious and you start to make decisions. So he like, you know, don't touch, don't touch the, the button buddy. And he is like, he looks at you, he like, looks at you and he goes, shoot. And I was like, whatcha doing? But he does it for protective measures. He does it for, you know, what he sees as safety. He does it for entertainment. He does it for the same reasons why adults do terrible things. You know, it's like, it's like for, you know, they're, they're scared a lot of times or they're angry about something else that's going on and stuff like that. So you see a lot of adults just as like, big kids, 0 (31m 55s): I guess like the understanding of emotions too and how that doesn't translate into, into adulthood. Because again, it's like you can't have these conversations without people getting wildly charged. And I'm in that bucket too. There's times where I can meditate and I can be self-aware and then all of a sudden some user says something to me online and I'm like raw. Like, what is this? And I'm just roaring. And you have to kind of reel it back in. But I think it's like anything else that you just have to do these stress tests and the more that you just dive in and kind of flood yourself with it, it gives you an opportunity to get comfortable with that discomfort and then hopefully transcend it. Because I have not reached escape velocity yet. I still have to go into my comment section and engage for the sake of the algorithm. 0 (32m 39s): And I, I cannot wait until the day where I am beyond that, but I'm not there yet. So I have to go into the comments and it is, it is like a masochistic exercise every single time I go in there and I try to respond and sometimes I try to be funny. Sometimes I try to offer different perspectives and then other times I go in there for battle and it just kind of depends on the day. But I feel like the more and more I do it, the less I'm actually getting like ri really riled up over it. 1 (33m 10s): What's the goal for you to go in the comments? Like what's the, is it, is it just to like, just so the algorithm sees that you interact really? Yeah. So you could just go in and just like say smile. It 0 (33m 20s): Makes a difference. It makes a huge difference, unfortunately, 1 (33m 24s): Because I, so you go in, I, I'll ask, I ask, I ask questions. I'm just, the whole thing is I'm just very, very curious person. So like, I just ask a lot of questions so people come after me. I just, I I just lean in the curiosity instead of saying a rhetorical question, I just lean in the curiosity. Do you ever take an Enneagram test? Candace? 0 (33m 41s): No. My husband is obsessed with Enneagram, so he, my 1 (33m 44s): Wife is wife is obsessed. Yeah. 0 (33m 45s): Yeah. I think he thinks I'm a six. 1 (33m 48s): Okay. I don't know. My wife knows that she's, she gives it to all of her employees and stuff like that. And it helps her a lot for how to, because it has like their drivers and their pain points. So it helps you to kind of deal with them. But I give it to my students. I give them in like the political ideology unit, I give them a whole bunch of like psychological tests and then political ideology tests and they make a connection. But I'm like an Enneagram? No, I forget. I think it's a, I think it's a four. It's like the one that says the Enneagram tests or bs. It's like the one that's like, I can't be, I can't be boxed in as like, I don't know. It's like, it's like the brooding vampire thing. You makes fun of me. But like in that I hate being misunderstood. It's like, I really don't like when people say like, you're not actually trying to be curious. 1 (34m 28s): You're not actually trying to have conversations, you're just trying to push your agenda. I'm like, online, it might be a bot, but I'm like, no, no, I really do. Come on and I'll, I send videos to people. One of the things I do, this is such a time suck too, I have like three kids and like two jobs. Like, I don't know what I'm, but like, I make like a, I get on my phone, I go, hi, I'm Will, I'm a real person. I might have like my kid with me or something like that. Like, I'm sorry if what I said I'm hurt you or offend you or you think I'm so dangerous to be, I shouldn't be around kids. Like, do you wanna have a conversation with me? Let's jump on Instagram live. You can reveal to a thousand people or 5,000 people, whatever it is, how dangerous I am and how terrible I am. Because I think it's probably a misunderstanding. So why don't we have a conversation about it? I've done that a lot, like hundreds of times. And I get, you know, like one out of every like 50 or or 75 people like take me up on it. 1 (35m 13s): But most of 'em don't. Most of 'em are thrown off. They're like, oh, I didn't expect you to respond. You probably get like, 0 (35m 17s): Yeah, I get that once in a while. Oh 1 (35m 18s): Sorry. You know, I was just trying. 0 (35m 19s): Yeah. Like I didn't really mean it 1 (35m 20s): Out there to get some sort of reaction back. They're looking for a human interaction I think because they're getting looking for a human touch. 0 (35m 26s): Yeah. That's really, that is sad. But again, that's not, that's not my business. That's not my responsibility. And there's this Mark Andreessen quote that he has said on a couple podcasts, which is there is no orphans after 21. So yes, you could have had the worst upbringing, life could have been dealt to you like the shittiest hand. But at some point, personal accountability is the only answer. So when we talk about, you know, the bullies, they need a hug. And you see that crazy lady at Starbucks berating a barista. She needs a hug. Sure. While all of that might be true, there's no no orphans after 21. So get it together. Yeah. You know what I mean? And there is, and I, part of that I think is compassion. I think compassion can be that really sharp knife and that that powerful blow, it doesn't necessarily need to be softness. 0 (36m 10s): And I think what we have right now is so much softness. It's only the hug and it's not recognizing what could be said as evil, malice, mistreatment, whatever. It's like you can't approach everything with love and or with softness. 'cause I think, again, like to conflate the two, we were watching Einstein yesterday on Netflix. Have you seen it? It's really short, definitely worth a watch. So everything that he says in the movie is something that he has said in real life or written down so there's nothing added, which is really a cool way to do a movie. And there's this one part of the line where he says like, brute force can only be met with brute force. 0 (36m 50s): There is no other option. And he is a self-proclaimed, militant pacifist. But he says, when it comes to someone trying to take over the world, 'cause he's talking about Hitler, Nazi Germany, there is only one solution. And this is coming from someone who was very against any kind of violence. And I thought that that was a really interesting quote. 1 (37m 11s): Yeah, I don't know. I I gotta, it's like, how do you get people to hear the hard truth though? Like, I think they're so closed off to it that you have to find some sort of shared value. You have to find some sort of com, you have to see people the way they wish to be seen or something along those lines. Like Candace Owens, I'm not a fan of hers, but like, if I would sit down with Candace Owens and I wanted her to really hear what I have to say, which is like my, my message to her would be something like, your, your approach isn't, you know, is is like losing people that you wanna try and get, or something along those lines. I wanna identify her as like, you're someone who is, you know, who, who is bringing, you know, black people out of the, the Democratic party and thinking that they have to go along this way, blah, blah. 1 (37m 54s): You identify her the way that she wants to be seen. So she goes, oh yeah, like that is who I am. Yeah. Like, you're a pioneer for the black community, you're gonna help them, blah, blah. Yeah. Yeah. And then you give her like, you know, in in, in teaching, if the kids be like doing something bad, you gotta call the parents. You give 'em what they call like a shit sandwich. So you give 'em like, no, your kid's great, they work really hard, they're a great athlete. And then you tell 'em what you actually want to tell 'em and then you finish it up with like, they're gonna have a great future, blah, blah, blah. So I think that I, I agree with you that we have to be able to tell the truth, but I think there's grace and truth. There has to be a loving element to it. Otherwise it's gonna come off like Matt Walsh. And I don't think Matt Walsh is, is, I think he's just preaching to the choir. 1 (38m 34s): He's just going right after his base as opposed to trying to bring people out of this very dangerous ideology. And that's why I think that the approach is, is sometimes more effective to like actually sit down and have a conversation. Why doesn't he sit down with Dylan Mulvaney, invite Dylan Mulvaney over for a lunch and have three hours of conversation? You know, who are you, where did you come from? Like take some time to get to know these people that you think are so terrible. I think it's just, I think it's a better approach. I think it's the only way that you're really gonna gonna change hearts and minds. But I don't know. 0 (39m 4s): Well that's with giving them the benefit that that's the, the aim. So capture can happen anywhere, you know what I mean? And so for some people, I think the goal is to approach things with curiosity, learn, also provide whatever it is that you might be able to offer, different kinds of insight. And then there's other people that just want to be heard and be right and preached to a base. And those are two different things. So if you're gonna be really polarizing and just being kind of a, a jerk online, you're not winning hearts and minds. To me that says that's not really the aim. You just are trying to prove that you know, something definitively. And those are different things. So I think what a lot of those people are doing, it's not, it's not to instill change or to really create a movement. 0 (39m 51s): I think it's just to be right. 1 (39m 53s): I agree. I agree with you. And that, that's also in my world of education. That's why I'm trying to, that's why I'm going into it, trying to do something different is 'cause I think teachers the same way. I know I'm right. You know, I am right. I'm the teacher, I'm the stage on the stage. I'm the person who went to school for this stuff. I have a PhD or whatever it is. So I'm right. You can't tell me otherwise. And that's just, I don't think that that's a good way, a good thing to model for your students. So I think that I'm trying to model in the way I, I engage online. Like everything I've, I've said online, I am fine with you putting out there everything because if, even if it is something ugly, which I, I don't handle myself great all the time, but even it's something ugly, then I can use it as an opportunity to be like, oh, here's what, what I would do differently. Like, I think that that's way better for me. 1 (40m 33s): I think in, in the, in educational setting, if you're gonna be a lifelong learning, you're gonna try and tell these kids how, how to think, not what to think. I think it's just a, a better, a better option than what you hear about the education system all the time. Just like it's Indoctrination Camp and it's, 0 (40m 47s): It is because, and you see that it's, I'd argue it's even worse at some of the private schools, but how to think not what to think is so critical. And I, I know I wasn't taught that in school because there was, there was this really good example and it was saying education isn't teaching kids about the atrocities of World War II and the Holocaust and having them memorize it and take a test educating children is teaching them how a group of Germans was told definitively to other, another group to the point of, of mass genocide. And then that's education is understanding how all of these tiny little drops in a bucket can create something so atrocious and not just memorizing facts. 0 (41m 34s): It was like, I think with, originally when we had scheduled this interview, there was that clip that was going viral of this teacher that was actively doing an exercise of how to teach critical thinking to a student. And this kid had just kind of outwardly called JK rolling a trans, he's like knowing that JK rolling is transphobic and then goes on for his argument and he kind of breaks this down step by step. And then it ends with the kid saying, actually I didn't disagree with anything she says, and No, no, I don't think she's transphobic. It's like, why aren't we doing more of that? Why are we trying to tell these young minds that aren't done yet? This is the way of the world and we have no fricking idea. Most of us are just trying to do our best and an ad, it's like, given my experience in 34 years of life, this is my perspective. 0 (42m 17s): That's it. You know what I mean? Not like this is the way 1 (42m 21s): Yeah, that video, Warren Smith is name. I've reached out to him and I reached out to him a lot. So I was like, all right, let's go. He teaches at a community college, which is great. And, but I think that stuff is happening more on colleges where it's not happening as in my world of like K through 12 at all. And I mean, or if it is, it's not online at all. And you could see the reaction that like whatever Elon Musk and all these people were like, oh my gosh, this is so good. This should be, it's like, yeah, I'm do I I'm doing it. And I I I've made like courses for critical thinking in across the disciplines for high school classes and stuff like that. Like I'm trying, but it goes back to what we were saying in the beginning, which is like, people just don't seem to want to, don't they like don't care really about diving into it. I don't know. It's like, it's a weird thing, but that went viral. 1 (43m 1s): People are saying, yes, teachers should be doing this, and then that's it. Like, and then it just moves on. I don't know. I'm kind of confused by, by, that's why I, that's why I reached out to you initially. It's like, oh, she's talking about the education system and about how, you know, we should be critically thinking and stuff like that. And like, yeah, let's go. So I think you're right. You like, let's talk because I'm, I'm just looking for anyone that's talking about it and trying to like form some sort of, of like a Voltron or something to take on the Goliath of the way that the education system works. I think the education system, if you look at the history from like the Prussian army and like the Rockefeller and stuff, it's a, it's an obedience model. It's, it exchanges, what I say all, all the time is it exchanges curiosity for compliance. 1 (43m 41s): Kids don't have a question. You go, sorry, I can't answer your question. We have to get to all these standards and stuff like that. We have limited time so I'm not gonna answer your question. So don't ask questions. You can't, you know, some of the teachers at my school get upset with me. 'cause I say to students all the time, like, do you ever ask your teacher why you're learning this and how learning this calculus or covalent bonds or whatever, how is this gonna help me as a 16-year-old in Los Angeles today? And then also as a 25-year-old starting a career in psychology and then also as a 40-year-old, you know, mother of two, like, tell me how learning about a covalent bond is gonna help me with that teacher go and the teachers get really mad. 0 (44m 18s): I was that kid. Go to the principal's office. 1 (44m 23s): It's so crazy to me. And I feel like, I feel like a twilight zone kid is where I'm just like, so I'm the crazy one that says that the things we should be learning in school need should be applicable. That's, that's crazy. That's the crazy stance. It's so wild. But you can't like, because the truth is, you can explain it like the war of it. I talking about war of 18, 12, no one cares about the war of 18, 12 people know when it happened, but that's it. But you can explain the war of 18, 12, it was like revolutionary war part two. And I explained it in like a, in a term like this, like you just had a fist fight with a kid and you lost even though you should have won, but you know, you slipped on a banana peel or something like that and he won. 1 (45m 5s): Now he is being braggadocious about it. But now you have to sit next to each other in class and it's October and you gotta stay next to each other in class until June and you're stewing and he's braggadocious and you're like, it's gonna get on again. That's what the war of 1812 was. So even if you win, don't think that the conflict is over. You gotta really resolve it. That's a useful tool. But that's not what war of 1812 is taught. They're like they burned down the White House. Andrew Jackson was a war hero and it happened in these forts. It's like, I don't know, I don't, I don't care about that stuff. 0 (45m 37s): Well, I think all of education is gonna have no choice but to change. I mean, you see everything that's happening with AI and how fast it's all developing. Imagine history class where you're ba where you're able to kind of have ar like an AR experience or a VR experience and actually talk to Washington and actually like be a, a bystander on the lines of war. It's gonna be really immersive. And I think, and then that'll probably be beneficial to a lot of people, assuming that they have access to the technology. I guess that is 1 (46m 6s): Who's gonna program it? Because you saw the stuff that's going on with like Google AI and stuff like that. Are they gonna program it to where George Washington be like, hi, I'm George Washington. I am a slave owning terrible person. Is like, you know, that's, that's the thing with AI is like, it's programmed by someone and it's probably someone in Silicon Valley, someone with a strong ideology who doesn't understand the complex nuance of, you know, historical context. 0 (46m 30s): You know what's weird too is I feel like a lot of people that are pushing a lot of stuff when it comes to CRT and DEI and all of that, they don't have kids. And they're the ones that are trying to have the most control over your kids. So, I mean, it gets, again, my kid goes to a private school and I feel like the benefit of that is that my opinion is somewhat taken into account. We've had meetings and things of that nature, so people kind of know where I stand on certain topics and what's appropriate, not appropriate. But even then it's still wildly limited. And then I talk to other parents and they're like, well, we don't like this either, but it's the best option that we have. And you're, you are never going to get something that's perfect unless you homeschool. 0 (47m 11s): And then there's this fallacy that you are not capable and someone else is capable. And it's like, why do I have such a deep disbelief in my own abilities or my abilities to outsource that and hire a personal educator? Like, that's also an option if you have the resources. So I'm applying for a school in the next couple of weeks and I am so excited. I'm very hopeful to get approved and we're just gonna start school locally. 1 (47m 36s): Yeah. Like there's no, you're gonna start a school. 0 (47m 38s): Yep. Yeah. It's a franchise. Yeah. And it's doing really well. There's over 50 in the country already. It's an Apogee school. So I will be submitting my, oh, that's 1 (47m 47s): Map draw my podcast. I love Matt. 0 (47m 49s): Oh really? Yeah. I'm so stoked. I'm, I'm hopeful. I'm in the women's group. It's excellent. So we shall see. 1 (47m 54s): Oh, that's very cool. Yeah, no, I mean, I think, I think that's what we, what it's gonna need is competition. You know, we know competition's gonna breed, gonna create better options and stuff like that. You know, give people the care. The problem with that, so there's so many problems to try to solve within this like thing and work it out is it's the parents who care enough to like, it's not, what you're doing is not easy. So you care enough about it. And I don't, and even that like saying care enough, I mean, it's a whole bunch of things. I mean, if you're a single mom, you know, who's worked delivering Amazon packages and working at a diner, maybe you just don't have the time or the bandwidth and you have three kids and they're, you know, running around. You just don't, you just can't, you know, whatever it is. 1 (48m 35s): Like maybe, you know, we are in privileged situations where we have enough that like we can, we have some time to focus on this stuff, but it's the parents who care for lack of a better term, enough to give their kids a better option. What do you do with the kids who parents are absent? You know, I taught in like in east LA like a really bad area a couple years ago, and parent-teacher conference night was very lonely. I'd have like, you know, snacks at water bottles and I'd just like sit there and stare at the wall. So, you know, what do you do about those kids? That's what's, that's what, that's what's tough about it. 'cause the kids who have parents who are advocates, they'll probably be okay, going back to what we were saying before. Like, who's gonna, this kid's gonna be successful? Well, if they have parents that are active in their life, giving them attention, affection, boundaries, all this kind of stuff, like they'll be okay if the parents who are really absent that those kids, what do we do for those kids? 0 (49m 24s): I don't have an answer for that. That's really tragic reality of it. Yeah. You know what I mean? That is, that is really tragic. But again, it's the, it's the failure of the system though. We, we pay money for this. So that mom that's working three jobs, she's paying a big chunk of her check and her time away from her kids that is supposed to go to this institute that has taken care of her kids. And then that institute is failing her and her children. So why is there no accountability? Why can't we say, okay, this needs a serious update. The world is changing faster than it's ever changed in the history of mankind that we know of. Why is the education system not adopting these changes? And why is it that, I remember when I was in school, I barely knew if my teacher was married or not. 0 (50m 8s): I would see a ring and, you know, if it was MS versus MRS and if it was a guy you looked for a ring, that was it. We had no idea about who they voted for, their beliefs, their personal life. And now it's become almost a, a requirement it seems, and again, this is all on social media because, so I'm sure some of it's kind of blown out of proportion or maybe it's not as prevalent as it seems, but it seems like a requirement that these teachers divulge their entire personality and personal life onto these kids. So you're supposed to be teaching them, I don't care how you identify who you voted for, why you think the sky is purple, like you are here to teach, you know, like civics class, whatever it is. 1 (50m 51s): Yeah, I mean, there's a movement, a guy I've had conversation with, Corey Deros is like this movement of like funding kids, not schools. So go back to that, that, you know, single mom is, she gets a, it could be a lot, it could be like $7,000 or more, like to just back cash that she has to use for like, essentially vouchers. But she could, you know, do a whole bunch of different things for that. You know, buy online classes, get them into like a private school or something like that. I think there's something to this, there's like an argument in like the reparations kind of conversation too, of if you give like baby bonds to like kids who are like, you know, not just black kids, but like kids from like, you know, poor neighborhoods. If you give them like a government chunk of money that they can't get access to until they're 18, the idea of a financial literacy class, maybe they'll pay attention to it. 1 (51m 37s): Because if you give a financial literacy class to a kid who does it, who has the lights turned off every couple of weeks in their house and doesn't have food in their, their refrigerator, it's like, that's a, that it's not applicable. I don't have money. I don't need to know how to, how to handle it. But if I know I'm getting money when I'm 18, then I, maybe I'll be more aware of it. So if you know you're gonna be getting this cash that you have to spend on education, maybe you'll be incentivized a little bit to dive into, you know, finding something better for your kid. I don't know. But it's, it's, it's a, it's an attempt. Let's try things. The reason why, to answer your question, the reason why things haven't changed is because the unions have gotten so strong. I mean, unions have a place, I think unions can be great, especially, you know, private sector unions where it's like, let's get people better working conditions. 1 (52m 19s): The fact that I can make a decent living, I think the average salary in LA public schools is like $75,000 a year. It's not bad. That's thanks to unions. So thank you unions for making it a real job. But now just like any union that you keep moving the goalposts and you just protect, protect, protect, protect, protect, keep it, keep it, you know, boxed into this one thing and, and try and push back, push down anything that tries to challenge that. And I think that's clearly one of the biggest hurdles that preventing the, the system from updating. 0 (52m 48s): Well then there's also the solution, which is what you, you and I were discussing at the beginning before we hit record, which is you're kind of leaving to go do your own thing. 'cause one of my questions is gonna be like, how do you have a job? I see your content online. I was like, how's this guy not fired yet? 1 (53m 1s): Yeah. So that's funny. So two things. One is my wife, she's like, awesome. She's, she's a, a brilliant entrepreneur. She works really, really hard. She has a, she's a business owner, so she makes more money than I do. So that takes the financial burden off. And we're not wealthy, but like we, she makes like, you know, enough to, to be like, if, if I would lose my job, we'll be okay until I get another one type of thing. But then also I left public school when I started to see the writing on the walls with these culture wars. Like right before, like as like the Trump thing was like building up and I went to a modern orthodox Jewish school. I'm not Jewish. I taught in public school, I taught in the hood. I went to this modern orthodox Jewish school. And there's something in the, in like the Orthodox Jewish community that's like really focused on education and viewpoint diversity. 1 (53m 46s): It's like this thing, like old rabbis just argue all the time around the Shabbat table. Like they just like, hey, nothing's off limits when it comes to what are we gonna talk about? And because of that, they've allowed it. So I've put stuff out there a lot and people send, find out where I, where I work, I don't talk about it, but people find out where I work. They send letters that you're, you employ a racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-Semite, whatever it is. And they just crumbled up and say, keep doing what you're doing. 'cause the kids like me, the parents like me, the administration likes me. So I'm like in this like kind of protected bubble, you know, I don't get, I don't get poison ivy. It's weird. I don't, I don't get poison ivy, right? So I got my 0 (54m 23s): Computer, I didn't know that was the thing. I didn't know that was an option. Yeah. 1 (54m 26s): So I don't get poison ivy. So when I was a kid and the football would go in the poison ivy, they'd all be like, all right, Roche, go in there and get the poison ivy. They're immune. So I think that there are teachers, and I've talked to them, there are teachers that agree with me on this stuff. There are, but there's, they don't have the kind of privilege that I do of being at the school that I'm at, being in the financial situation that I'm at. So they can't, so they come to me and they sell me like, thank you so much for saying this. You're gonna be a mouthpiece for me. Here's a story that I'm going through that I wish I could say, but I can't, can you say it? So that's kind of how I'm able to do this. So I'm, I'm, I'm very lucky to be in that situation, so I'm gonna use it, you know, to try and, and, and bring awareness about what's happening in schools. 0 (55m 4s): Oh, that's brilliant. I think that's the great thing too about all of these podcasts that are popping up. People get really annoyed or offended, and maybe that's just my feed, but people are like, they're giving anyone a podcast now. When my thing was going viral, I was like, first of all, no one gave me anything. I created this opportunity for myself. Second of all, it does have an impact. So there are people that can't share stories for whatever reason. And then you can kind of be the mouthpiece for that. And then also, if you're someone who is a curious learner and you learned something that week or that month and you wanna share it with your audience, they might not have heard it. So all of these things have a downstream effect and I think it's all important. 1 (55m 42s): Yeah. What like, that's, that's just like that David Goggins thing. Like haters, you're never gonna find a hater who's doing better than you. Like Yeah. What do you care if I'm start like, especially if you have a good why, what's what's your why for, for doing your podcast? Mine is about like education and trying to bring people into diversity and stuff. So it's not about really like likes and follows. It's not, it's about like pushing this idea out. I want to fix education. I'm looking left, looking right. The reason I reached out to Warren Smith, I was like, is he a, is he a high school teacher that's actually doing this and can do it? Like I'll just get behind him, I'll shut down my podcast, I'll shut down. I'll just be like, I'll, I'll help you buddy. But no one else that I see is really doing what I'm doing. So I was like, all right, so I gotta do it. But what's, what's your why for putting up with all this? 1 (56m 23s): This? 0 (56m 24s): That's a good question. And honestly, some days I really ask myself this. I sit by myself usually in my closet because it's the only place that's soundproofed in this house. I have two boys and I will sit there and I'll ruminate and I'll meditate and I'm like, what? Why am I putting myself through this? 'cause it is a lot. Why am I putting my family through this? Because it is a lot. And one of my reasons, 'cause I think there's a lot of them, it's to try to influence curiosity, to try to present curiosity. And I say this a lot, it's curiosity without a conclusion. So I feel like we conclude so much. We think we know everything, everything is closed ended. And I don't think that most things are that way. 0 (57m 5s): There's so many different perspectives, there's so many possibilities. And if we approach things with a learner's attitude instead of I've got this figured out, then what a different place it would be. And trying to, trying to influence people to treat other people with humanity. Basically basic humanity. I'm not asking you to agree with my decisions. I'm not asking you to be my champion. Just approach things with some humanity and, and humility. I've got plenty of that. And like the internet keeps me humble, I assure you. Yeah, sure. I'll never be someone who thinks I am incredible and have it all figured out because there are thousands of people to make sure that that's not the case. But, and then also the i the idea of identity and the, the powerful force that is evolution. 0 (57m 52s): I think that, so Ray Dalio talks about this in his book Principles. The evolution is the most powerful force out there. And he uses nature as an example to kind of create his principles. So assuming that nature is smarter than we are through a vast amount of evidence, if I look to nature for answers to my questions, I'll probably get a better answer than if I try to come up with myself or ask a fellow man. So evolution is one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful driver. If that's true, then someone like me should be allowed to evolve and it's something I want to do. And one of the gifts of being in a previous taboo industry, which is the adult industry, is you evolve or you die. And that's the rule in nature. And I am just really faced with that in a very black and white situation. 0 (58m 35s): So it's, I can evolve and I have to do it against, like, against the current because so many people don't want you to. It's like you made this decision and it's permanent and you're forever a bad person. You're forever not worthy of a perspective and an opinion. Anything I say is kind of gonna be suffocated by my previous decisions. And that's the way that they view people like me and, and the world I suppose. But I have this obligation to evolve kind of, to hopefully trailblaze in some sense, right? You can improve your life, you can improve the lives of those around you. 0 (59m 16s): You can change your perspective. Hopefully you're a growing thing, like you're not stagnant. So yeah, I would say evolution, curiosity, hu humanity kind of, kind of big things for me. But on a day-to-day basis, I think it's so important and also more is caught than taught, especially as a parent. So to live a life that I think is worth living and to be living example for my children. 1 (59m 41s): Yeah, I mean, well we're, we're aligned in the, I have this thing of like when you engage with people online, I put made these like three pillars. It's intellectual humility, so you might be wrong, genuine curiosity, like actually cur and then grace. So it's, it's aligned with a lot of things that you said. You know, when I saw, I saw your people might not believe me, whatever. When I saw your thing on a, on ci citizen podcast, I didn't know who you were. So, so then I was like, alright, cool, then I'm gonna have this conversation with this person or whatever. But then as you talk about like being in like the adult film industry, we can go into that or not. It's, it's up to you, it's your show. But like again, I see everything through like a biblical lens now I'm like a Jesus person. Like, but Mary Magdalene who was, you know, like right there like with Jesus, like real, like no right hand person, like through so many things, you know, Peter too, but like anyway was a sex worker. 1 (1h 0m 34s): I mean, one of the, one of the theories is that she was a sex worker before she was a follower. So, you know, if, if these Christians who are throwing this stuff at you, it's like you don't have a right, you don't have a right to, to have an opinion. You now you're, you're, you're marred for life. What about the person who was one of the closest people to your savior? Like that? It's, it's the, I I'm so critical of Christians and it's, it's, it's a problem. 'cause I, I get, I get really, really frustrated with it. But you know, this idea that you made these decisions in your life, even if you're still making these decisions in your life, people who are still in the industry, I don't know like your situation with that, but like it, who cares? Like, like how do they treat people and why, why is it your business? 1 (1h 1m 19s): And if you wanna say like, you know, that you're, they're causing this horrible harm to society, okay, this one person is, or the, they're just a cog in the wheel. Like there's just so many things you can go into with like within that industry. I think it's, i i I just don't like the judgment element of it. And I think that again, lean into more curiosity of like, what's going on, what are your takes on this? 'cause a lot of these people are casting these things while they're probably watching it at home, you know, and they're, they're funding this stuff. So, so all that hypocrisy, I don't know. There's, there's a lot, a lot to that. 0 (1h 1m 50s): Yeah. So Candace Owens had a, I think she was a porn star. I, I recognize the girl's face, but I didn't, I don't know her name or her story, but like, she was a quote sex worker and they had a sit down and this poor woman, like you tell she was very nervous. I mean, you're going against a juggernaut. I had my disagreements with Candace Owens, but I mean she is as sharp as they come and agreed. She knows her stuff and she's a professional, right? And she, she didn't get to where she is because she's a dummy. So she, you were going against Goliath. So this girl was nervous, rightfully so, and was trying to prepare and had been studying the Bible, which I think is so respectful that she's trying to understand Candace's position and approach the conversation with both where she thought it was going to kind of go. 0 (1h 2m 36s): And Candace is kind of sitting there smugly and she's like, I wasn't gonna even bring up the Bible because I would assume that you haven't studied it. Like, I was like, oh my gosh, this is like, what is the point of what is the point of this? And this woman is trying to bring up Mary Magdalene, which is an interesting thing because it is pretty much perpetuated that she was a sex worker. So it's like, it's not to accept the quote sin or the act, but it's to, it's hate, hate the sin, love the sinner, that kind of mentality. So yeah, you can hate what I do, you can call it sinful if that's your perspective. But the whole point is to love the sinner. And that's kind of what was supposed to be absorbed from Jesus's teaching. 0 (1h 3m 21s): And it was, that's a clear example of how it's not, and she was on the whatever podcast and she was talking to this young girl who's obviously young and dumb, we're all young and dumb that you're supposed to make mistakes so that you can learn. You learn from your mistakes, you don't learn from your successes. You learn very little from success except for this. This is awesome and this feels good and I want more of it. You learn a lot from mistakes. So you're supposed to be young and dumb for a period of your life. And Candace is going, you know, toe to toe with this girl who does not stand a chance, right? Like me, even now, I wouldn't stand a chance. She's brilliant me at 21 I'd be floundering. And she's like, I'm just so curious about whole life. And I'm like, whatcha doing to this girl? 0 (1h 4m 2s): Like, is this necessary? Is that absolutely necessary? You know, who was curious about whole life was Jesus, right? His and Jelly Roll has this great, great clip from a podcast he did. He's like, Jesus would've been coming in on a Harley Whatcha talking about, you know, he was the man of the people and a man of the misfits and no one is below redemption. And I think that's what's getting lost. Yeah, 1 (1h 4m 26s): There's two quotes I really love. One is CS Lewis. He said the church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints. And then the other one is a r RC spro quote where it's, it's like Christians have no reason to be smug and, and an evangelist is just one beggar telling another beggar where to find bread. I'd love that stuff. Like that's, that's, that's the, even like when I say I'm a Christian, it, I, it gives me like icky feelings about the thing that is the most important thing in my life because it's, it's so associated with that kind of judgmental elements of, of, of people. And I just, I just, they're, they're, I think they're missing the boat. And I'm new to this stuff. I haven't been like studying the bible my whole life at all or anything like that. 1 (1h 5m 7s): But I think I get the big picture. That's what I do with my history classes and stuff like that. My civic classes, I look at big picture, I look at big patterns, you know, I don't, I don't know who the 22nd president was. You know, kids will ask me all these like detailed, what was the Wilmont preo in early America? I was like, I don't know, kid Google it. I dunno. But I can tell you like big sociology, evolutionary biology, like patterns and that that's a, seems to be a big pattern of Christianity that, that the people who are experts are missing, you know? 0 (1h 5m 37s): Yeah. And I think especially when it comes to a lot of these religions. So are you familiar with like the popular male archetypes you have? The warrior, the magician, the king and the lover. 1 (1h 5m 47s): Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. Oh, 0 (1h 5m 50s): Lemme see if I can find this book really so I can reference it. It is, it's really good. My husband's been reading it. I've heard it from a lot of people and I'm on the lover chapter right now. Let me see, my 1 (1h 6m 0s): Enneagram four is probably like, I'm none of those things. You can't categorize me 0 (1h 6m 5s): So well. No. So here's the thing, it's, it's similar to the female archetypes. It's not, it's to be able to know your fields of play and be able to channel that archetype when it's necessary. So all of the things are integrated so you don't exile any part of you. And I think a lot of what religion has done, and even society at large has done is expect you to kind of exile certain parts or to say certain parts are bad and not being fully integrated person. So it's called king warrior magician, lover, rediscovering the archetypes of the mature masculine by Robert Moore. Highly recommend it. So when it comes to the lover archetype, so you have your mature and immature, just like you have light and shadow if you're into young and psychology. 0 (1h 6m 51s): So you have this lover that is, it's the seat of creativity, of passion, of the arts, of, of obviously of sex. And he kind of encomp like he says, these are all one in the same thing. The mature lover isn't saying sex is bad, isn't saying that art is bad or innovation is bad. It's just knowing the limits. Knowing your, knowing your personal limits. The immature version of the lover is kind of that hungry ghost that's never satiated and is consume, consume, consume. And then that is the, the theological origin of the word. It has nothing to do with sex, it has to do with a being, a bottomless pit, being a taker, being someone of not con of no contributing value. 0 (1h 7m 36s): So we associate with that, with who, because it's easy, it's sexy and it applies to, to everyone. 'cause sex is a natural function of humanity. But when it comes to, to porn specifically why I'm so focused on the lover chapter, it's, I see this exiling of sexuality. So instead of saying, how can I integrate this in a healthy way, how can I control my compulsions? How can I have a healthy relationship with what is a fundamental human need? You cast it away entirely and say all of it's shameful or sinful. And I tend to be the scapegoat of that. And people like mead tend to be the scapegoat of that. So you have the idea and the origin story of what is a scape? 0 (1h 8m 17s): A scapegoat. Well you would have the priest come in and you would have the two goats and one goat would be told both goats I think were told all of the sins of the community. And one was slayed and the other one was sent out into the woods. And it was sent thought that by sending this goat into the woods, there was this demonic creature that would then kind of take this goat and in that would cure the community of the sins. So it's not transcending it's your scapegoating. People like me and the industry at whole, instead of saying, okay, how can I integrate my own sexuality and come up with rules for me, my home, my relationship? And instead it's no, this entire thing is wrong, evil and moral. 0 (1h 8m 60s): And you are the reason for the, the crumbling of society and social morals as we know it. 1 (1h 9m 6s): So they slay you, they kill you to kind of like try and Right that, that 0 (1h 9m 10s): Rule. Well I feel like it be between, it depends on the person. Some people are trying to do basically a virtual witch burning and then other people are demanding. I go into exile, which is why it's so triggering that I have a podcast. They're like, you shouldn't be out here. You should kind of be, take your loss. You've done something unforgivable and you belong in the woods with the rest of the dark things. 1 (1h 9m 29s): Wow. Yeah. I don't know. I I, I don't, I, I'm, I can't imagine what, what the kind of stuff you get. Why isn't this, this stuff should be taught in school, right? Candace like this, like these different archetypes. The Enneagram, you know what, whatever the Myers-Briggs like, I, I can't tell you how many students, they're seniors or they're juniors or something like that. And I'm talking to 'em of like, what, you know, what do you wanna do next year? I don't know, college. Oh, what do you wanna major in? I don't know. Well, what do you like to do? I don't know. You don't know what you'd like to do? No. What did you do last Wednesday? Watch Netflix. What did you watch? I don't know. Do would, would you have a favorite show? Like the, the kids aren't reflect, they're, they're just constantly consuming things, consuming things, consuming media and, and, and things like that. 1 (1h 10m 15s): And they're not, they're not contemplating, you know, who they are, who they wanna be. They're not thinking about that kind of stuff nearly enough. And I think that would be a great thing to add in in schools. But they say, well there's an opportunity cost. If you're doing that, then you can't teach them, you know, physics, you can't teach them algebra. It's like, yeah, maybe you can't, but they'll learn algebra. You can learn algebra. If you have a reason to learn algebra, you can learn it pretty quick. You know, like, I don't know how to, how to, you know, do certain things with like plumbing. But as soon as the the pipe bursts, I'm figuring it out pretty quick. Like people are resilient in that way, but what we're not teaching them is really the self-discovery of who they are. There's a lot of people who go out there and they don't know who they are, which is, another problem with that is then you're not gonna see your blind spots about why are you lashing out at the barista at Starbucks or some woman online who has a podcast 'cause they're not even aware of them of themselves and what their trigger points are and things like that. 0 (1h 11m 9s): Yeah. And I think I also represent someone who didn't get what I was told I was supposed to, which is punishment and a failed life and 1 (1h 11m 18s): Yeah. Oh, you're happy you're married. Yeah. You have kids, you have, you live a nice suburban life or something like, yeah, Well yeah, because we tell, we teach say like, if you do this, then you're gonna be a loser, so don't do that 'cause you're gonna be a loser. You know, like you're, you know, Chris Rock says like, keep your girl off the pole. Like, yeah, but maybe, maybe that's not the case all the time. You know, it's like, it's like, is it, is it the ideal? Maybe not. But again, like you said, like people from abused households become great. It's not that hurt people hurt people. I think maybe for children, little children, like if there's a 4-year-old who's really terrible, it's probably because he was hurt. But like for adults, that's not true. Hurt. People hurt, but some hurt people help people. 1 (1h 11m 58s): It's all depends on how you deal with it. So that I don't, I don't buy that at all. 0 (1h 12m 3s): Yeah. And it puts me in a weird position because I'm not, I'm not an outwardly spoke outspoken person to promote the industry at all. I, my advice off like almost all of the time to anyone is don't do it. It is the cost of doing it is massive. Even if you figure it out, even if you financially figure it out and you somehow end up on the other side better than you got in, it is still a massive cost and it's not easy to deal with those ramifications and your family has to deal with it and then your kids are gonna have to deal with it. And it's no joke, it's no joke at all. But I also am really grateful that I did do it. Like I wouldn't take it back. Yeah. So it sounds hypocritical, but for me it's, it's really weird thing that I still kind of grapple with because everyone's like, if you had a daughter, would you want her to do it? 0 (1h 12m 50s): Absolutely not. And that's, that's the honest answer. Absolutely not. I wouldn't want her to do that. But I also don't wanna be the type of parent that's controlling my kid. So I'm gonna love my kid no matter what. I'm going to support decisions as long as they're not inflicting harm on others or themselves. And if you, it's, it's a hard thing. It's if you have a tree that's gonna grow up to be an oak tree, no matter what you do, it's not gonna produce apples. So I just feel like that was part of my path for that time in my life and it wasn't easy. Right now dealing with it isn't easy, but the amount of freedom that I've gotten and like the type of life that I am able to live the person that I've become because of those trials and tribulations and continue to be, it's, it's all part. 0 (1h 13m 35s): It's supposed to be. It's just, 1 (1h 13m 36s): Yeah, you wouldn't have been that person. Like I, you know, I, I drank a lot in my teenage years and stuff like a lot, like I partied a lot and you know, it's like, would you want your kids to do that? It's like, no. But I like where I'm at now. I have a very blessed life and I don't know if I would've been here and developed the way that I am if I wouldn't have had that. So it's, it's so hard. Like that's why regret is so tricky. Like to really go back there. Can I ask you another question about the Yeah, sure. Is it, I had a, a woman who was a, a former stripper on my podcast because I was, it was like the, the the, the whole thing is like viewpoint diversity. So it was like the taboo world of stripping. And she was saying that a lot of people, people, it's like once who get through it, okay, they, they know the deal more. 1 (1h 14m 16s): They like can compartmentalize it. They see it for like, like what it, what it is this way as opposed to other people see it this way. Some people just like, is there like a way that you can frame it when you're for like the girls that are in it, in that world, like you can frame it, if you think about it in these terms, you're more likely to come out of it like more yourself or, or, or come out of it ahead as opposed to like being like crushed by it. 0 (1h 14m 42s): So yeah, it's probably gonna over be oversimplified. But for me, one of my rules while I was filming was I was never gonna do something strictly for money. I would have to actually be okay with the act. And I think that's so important. I think there's a lot of performers that get paid more to do more extreme things. They get more bookings, the more extreme that they are. And then you also go get more views. So it seems like you're promised more success if you have no boundaries and you're just willing to do whatever is presented to you when you show up on set. And when I saw those performers, I got in kind of old actually I got in when I was like 20 or 21. 0 (1h 15m 23s): A lot of girls get in right at 18 that those couple years, boy do they make a difference. I'm a big advocate of raising the age to 21, even 20. It's too young. It's too, imagine getting in at 18 right now and, and it's so easy because now all you have to do is sign up for an OnlyFans account. Like, you know, the way that I did it was the last of the old school, I had to find a company online. I had to look them up, I had to find their contact, I had to send in pictures of my id, I had to talk to someone at booking. I had to fly down to Florida. There were so many steps before I did my first scene and I was older so I was able to kind of figure it all out on my, on my own. But imagine being 18 and just signing up for an account, making that decision now and then five years go by and you're like, shit, what did I do? 0 (1h 16m 8s): And the internet is forever, at least right now. The internet is forever and there's nothing that you can do. And then that decision is going to kind of cascade and have a, a permanent stain on your persona for the rest of your life. Theoretically. Yeah. 1 (1h 16m 21s): 18 young. Like they're ch is it, is that like connected with some sort of pedophilia slant? It must be. 'cause I, I teach 18-year-old girls, they're, they obviously, I frame it young, but they still are. They're they're children. Yeah, they're they're real, they're really young and even like their, like their bodies aren't fully developed. Like it's like this, I don't know, it feels really creepy to me. 0 (1h 16m 47s): Some men like younger women and that's kind of always existed. I think there schools 1 (1h 16m 52s): That makes sense, younger makes sense, but not 0 (1h 16m 54s): When I say young, well I should say under 18. Yeah. Kids, adolescents, young adults, well I guess not adults, young, young people. So they did this poll and it went really viral. It was on Australian men I think, and maybe it was done in Australia or New Zealand, but they did this study and it was something like one in six men had a physical attraction to 13 and under. And I had this psychologist on and we were talking about it and the statistics are crazy if anyone's listening to this checkout, the Alex Psych podcast, because we get into like the exact specs and I don't have 'em in front of me. It was an alarming amount of men that were attracted to and acted on. And I asked, is this new? 0 (1h 17m 36s): Is this something that's happening because of the internet, because of tube sites, because of you name it, like what's happening? And he says no. And his opinion to some, to, to surmise it was, this has always existed. It just kind of went hidden. And now people are, have these surveys and they're answering it and you can see how prevalent it is. And that's why it's so important to protect your kids and be aware if they have any behavior changes or if they seem to be start getting quiet or be distant and you just have to have your finger on the pulse because it is a staggering amount and it's probably always been kind of high. So that, to answer your question, I think that's probably catering to a certain specific group of people. 0 (1h 18m 16s): But I think to end up, okay on the other side, it's you have to know why you're getting in or at least get in for a, a real curiosity. Not because you think you're gonna be famous or successful or rich because those things are really unlikely for me. There was a huge X factor I felt pulled to get in and I don't know that that's a great reason to get in, but it was really powerful for me. I wanted to explore sexuality and femininity and I idealized people like Pamela Anderson and Carmen Electra and Tara Patrick. And I don't, it just, it was part, again, part of my path I think. But for me, having strong boundaries, not doing things just for money, not getting involved in drugs and alcohol I think is huge because I think a lot of these women would do things for money that didn't feel okay. 0 (1h 19m 4s): Yeah. And then self-medicate and it kind of became a vicious cycle. And then you, on top of that, you don't have a social support system when you go home and then you have society telling you you're a terrible person and irredeemable and these things kind of compound and can become overwhelming. And if you don't have the mental fortitude to deal with all of this, it can possibly lead to really dire consequences. So again, when people are like, if you had a daughter, would you absolutely not. I know how hard it is, but if, if I worked on an oil rig, I wouldn't want my son to do that. So same thing, I think the idea is that you want your kids to do better than you did, right? This is my story. I hope you did better, you do better than I did. 0 (1h 19m 45s): And that you are wildly successful and you're presented opportunities to follow curiosities and authenticity in a way that you're safe and full of life. 1 (1h 19m 54s): Yeah, but that's the tr that's the rub though, right? Like, you seem really cool Candace like, would you be this way if you didn't go through that? Like I went through a lot of hardship. I was sick when I was older and I had all this crazy things like I would, so you want your kid to have an easy, beautiful life, but you want them to be awesome adults and most the often know went through all kinds of crazy trauma and hardships. So like that's the tough thing about raising kids is like you, you know that if you bubble wrap it, everything's good that they're gonna be, you know, like we weirdos are not have a lot of substance. I I made a video about porn being dangerous 'cause what I see in high school and with a lot of boys and stuff like that. Was there anything on that that you felt like I was lacking nuance on? 1 (1h 20m 37s): I'm sure there is. Like anything that I, you think it was lacking nuance or shows my ignorance in this issue? Do you remember what it was? 0 (1h 20m 43s): I don't remember the exact cont like the, the whole thing. But I remember feeling like it was very causal. Like the, the, the statement was very causal. That porn is the reason that maybe attention spans are low or maybe that sex, like the way they're approaching sex and relationship is different and that the way that they might be treating women, young women is different because there, there are studies that do show that people that watch more pornography don't recognize consent the same way as people that watch less. So I'm not saying that they're committing assault by any means, but I'm saying usually there's nonverbal communication that will say, I'm okay with this. 0 (1h 21m 23s): I'm not okay with this or too much in some level. And they're not recognizing that nonverbal cue, but that translates beyond Porn. So they've done this study and it's just, it's just screen time in general. So if they're spending that time on Instagram or TikTok the same amount that they are on Porn, Porn, Porn sites, presumably that nonverbal communication would also be just as difficult for them to read. And then you have the conversation of, of consent and what is supposed to be safe consensual sex as well. And I don't think, well, I know that that's not the job of the porn industry. That's the job of the parents. And this goes back to sex ed as well. And it's, should it be taught how much should be taught and what is the job of the educators? 0 (1h 22m 4s): Because this is a discussion for home. But also on the flip side, there are societal ramifications if a kid isn't taught these things. So then school does have some kind of obligation to make sure that the basics are taught. Because if you are a 16-year-old girl and you get pregnant, that is gonna affect her and her baby. And then the grand babies like that has a really big powerful impact on not only her but her lineage in the community at whole, if that becomes a problem. So yes, I think sex ed should be taught, I think the parents need to be in the know as to what is being taught and be okay with it and just be able to pull their kid out if they don't want to and say, I'm gonna supply my own education at the house. But also parents need to get rid of their own shame around that conversation because why is that an embarrassing topic? 0 (1h 22m 48s): So this is back, 1 (1h 22m 49s): I didn't get a sex talk, 0 (1h 22m 50s): Right? 1 (1h 22m 51s): I didn't get sex. My wife didn't get a sex talk. 0 (1h 22m 53s): You didn't get one? No, no. By your school or your parents? No, 1 (1h 22m 58s): I got one by my school, no, by my parents. Okay. It was uncomfortable, you know, I get it. But like we already gave my 9-year-old dog. Like I don't, we because we don't want there to be like a, a taboo around it. But yeah, the sex ed, you know, you know who Esther Perel is, right? 0 (1h 23m 12s): Love Esther. Yeah. 1 (1h 23m 14s): So great. And she talks about the importance of intimacy and that's the way sex ed is taught, like plumbing, she says, which is so good. It's like this goes in here. It's like, that's what you don't need. And, but that's what shows up a lot in porn too. I mean, I don't know, like, but like, like maybe there's different like the kind of pornography that like, like women watch compared to men watch or something like that. But like something about intimacy seems to be lacking in that too. So it becomes this like just like this like act as opposed to some sort of like emotional bond. And I worry about that for young people who are, are, are trying to go out there and just like, why not have sex? Like, and you know, and it does promote like this, I don't know if if pornography does it nearly as much as even like the show friends, high school high schoolers love friends, which is weird 'cause it started like 10 years before they were born. 1 (1h 23m 59s): But like, you know, Monica goes out on two dates and then she has sex with a guy and then Joey, he's a cute girl and they have sex. It's just like this casual sex thing. And I don't wanna shame people when it comes to sex, but I, I again don't think it's ideal to have, you know, casual sex be like the the norm. I think that the ideal would be you find someone that loves you and you, you know, find a bond and then you have like, that's the ideal. So again, why don't we aim for that and then you're gonna screw it up. But like I just, I I worry about that element and you're, you're, I think you're accurate because I, I think I even said something like, you know, porn has a lot to do with like the ills of society, which is a sloppy way to put it. Where it's, it's, 0 (1h 24m 38s): Yeah, well I mean you could argue that Disney has a, is a problem for young girls to watch too though, right? So it's this idea that this man is gonna be absolutely flawless and save you and be the reason for your existence. And that's not true and that's not fair to men or that the notebook is setting up men for an impossible standard, just like porn is setting women up for an impossible standard. It's supposed to be a piece of entertainment. And if someone else can't figure that out and is taking that into their day-to-day life. Like if I were to go berate my husband for not being Ryan Gosling, that's my problem. That's not the notebook's problem and that's not his problem. That's me because I'm bringing entertainment into, into reality. 0 (1h 25m 20s): And I mean, I grew up before tube sites were a thing, men, young boys were having sex casually without any idea of what intimacy is. I would argue that men don't, haven't known what intimacy is for a long time, way beyond the internet and way beyond porn because men were told not to have feelings. You are not allowed to have feelings. It makes you a right. So that's a way bigger problem than porn. It's just how we treat men as inhuman and somehow beyond feeling, which is not okay either. And then there's the flip side of the problem with sex is only supposed to be with love. And it is like this thing that cannot be separated from value and marriage and love because that's how I was raised. 0 (1h 26m 7s): And the, that meant the first boy that I had sex with, that was a huge thing. I lost a piece of my, and I was with him for years before we had sex. It wasn't quick. I was very shy, never physical. I was like 16 or 17 the first time I did it. And it felt like I had given my value away. I knew that I wasn't, this person wasn't right for me. But now that was it. Now I have to 1 (1h 26m 33s): That's the message that was sent to you though. 0 (1h 26m 35s): Yeah. Right? Yes. And now this is the person I have to marry because now I'm not gonna be valuable to another man or this is such a big deal. So it made it harder to leave that relationship where if I was taught that sex is a complicated thing and it's incredible. If you have a real connection with someone, it is spiritual. If you are within union and you love that person, or even if you're in a really deep connected space with someone, you can be connected when you just meet someone. And it sex can be spiritual, it can be frivolous, it can be junk food, it can be whole and healing there. The experience depends on who you are, who you're dancing with. So to say that it's only this one thing can be pretty dangerous, especially for a young woman because if she does the act gives this virtue away to someone. 0 (1h 27m 22s): It's like, well now what do I do? Where, what cards do I have left to play? Instead of saying, okay, I did this, he's not right for me. I'm still worthy of love and I need to be able to leave a bad situation if needed. 1 (1h 27m 36s): Yeah, I mean that's, that goes back to what I'm saying. Like you aim for the ideal though, and then when you miss, which we're all gonna do daily, hourly is miss it, then it's like, all right, well I'm gonna get back on trying to, at least you have like the guardrails. That's what, that's what Christianity helps with me with is like I'm all, I screw up all the time in so many ways and it's like, all right, well I'm not, I'm not gonna do that again right now. So I'm gonna get back on the path and I'll go down a little bit and then I'll screw up. I'll I'll, but you know, even like talking about this, I don't know how many people in like teacher Graham world, like internet teachers, they, they show like, this is my bulletin board. Or like, isn't it funny when a kid asks the same question twice? They're not talking about pornography, but their students are consuming it constantly. 1 (1h 28m 18s): 'cause every high school boy anyway, probably girls too, you know, have a laptop and they have their room and they just lock themselves in their room and it's just access to it so easy. It was hard. I'm 41, it was hard for me to get like, access to like, see boobs. It was hard. You have like a lookout at at like Barnes and Noble and then one kid would like grab it, put it inside of another magazine that was check this out or would like steal one from their older brothers. So it was like a big deal. And now it's like, it's just ubiquitous and I, I don't know, I i I don't know where it seems very new, like how much access to like, and it is getting, as you said, like it's getting more and more extreme too because you gotta like one up, you know, it's always like they gotta one up this person and, and stuff like that. I, I, yeah, I am concerned about it, but I'm trying not to be judgmental of saying like, the people who are doing it are bad people or even the people who are producing it 'cause they're just meeting a, a demand that people have. 1 (1h 29m 8s): But I do, I do have concerns about it in society. I just, I don't know because I think it's, it's kind of uncharted to some degree about about the way that we're, it's just, it's just everywhere. You're just inundated the volume. Yeah. 0 (1h 29m 21s): Yeah. I think the volume is probably an issue. But then that goes back to, I mean I think people have a Compulsion issue across the board with a lot of things. So it's not just sexuality, it's not just porn, it's TikTok, it's eating, like there's this avoidance that we have to do difficult, hard things. And maybe some of it is we don't know what we're supposed to be doing or there's a lack of purpose, lack of connection. So instead of sitting with that discomfort or that almost kind of purgatory, you're like, I'm just gonna do the thing that feels good. So whether that thing is sexual, whether that thing is eating, whether that thing is mindlessly watching a screen or a TikTok. So I think that that's one version of a symptom of a much bigger problem. 0 (1h 30m 4s): So it's, if you have these high school kids and probably boys way more than girls, as far as this being an issue, it's okay, how do you channel that energy? Because if you do believe that sex and that kind of root chakra is a creative energy, instead of trying to extinguish it, you say, how do we transmute this into something that can turn into something more beneficial? So maybe you start jiujitsu, maybe I give like what are you into, let's start a business. Let me walk you through actually creating this idea and bringing it into their, into reality. Because you see these kids that have TikTok shops and I started this nonprofit or I right, they can do really incredible things even if they're teenagers. So you take that energy that's there and for a boy it's probably a lot and you move it into something else. 0 (1h 30m 48s): Yes. And it, the problem is, is we mentioned parents not having time and not being involved. That might be true for some people, but I think a lot of people, they're just checked out. A lot of parents are also checked out. And that's why when you ask a kid, what do you wanna do? And then go, I don't know, they're not used to being asked questions. No. So they don't know how to answer it. They're not going home and their parent isn't like, what was the most interesting part of your day today? What's the hardest part of your day today? What's the most inspiring part of your today, day to day? And actually listening, not having your phone in the other hand, not like daydreaming and just checking out so they're not engaged in even their own lives because of this. So yeah, porn is a pro is a problem, but it's more a symptom of a bigger root cause. So you can keep trying to approach it with, make it illegal. 0 (1h 31m 30s): These people are bad, you're, it's gonna turn into something else. It's gonna turn that into them doing drugs or eating too much or becoming depressed. It's, the symptom is going to change. You're not gonna get rid of the problem. So I think it ha people have to be so careful about just blankly blaming one group of people are one thing. 'cause it's just lazy thinking. It's like on the other side too, right? If everything is because of Trump, well you're not a serious thinker because if the answer to all of your problems can't be Trump and the same on the other side, you're the answer to all of your problems can't be porn. So let's get to, do we wanna solve this or not? Do we wanna have a serious conversation or not. And I think most people care about, kids want them to do better, want them to thrive, want them to, I mean, you see the amounts of like suicide and depression and anxiety and body dysmorphia. 0 (1h 32m 20s): Those, no one feels good about that. Yeah. So how do we actually tackle this in a real way? 1 (1h 32m 26s): Yeah. I love that. I mean, parents don't know their kids. I, I, because I asked those, those kids that I ask, I ask their parents then, and they don't, I love getting to know my kids. It's so much fun just asking 'em questions. Like it's, it's the, it's the most rewarding thing I have in my life, probably. I mean, it's, it's incredible. Just like this gift of a get getting to know this person as they develop, but the cheap short term dopamine hits. Yeah. It goes for, for food and stuff like that. And I talk about food and stuff like that a lot too. I guess where I think sex is different is, this makes me sound like a, like a real conservative, but it's like, it's designed to create life and I worry about the act that's designed. Life seems like a really precious important thing. 1 (1h 33m 7s): So to take that fruitlessly, like, yes, I know that we have abortion, we have birth control and stuff like that. But like, I don't, I'm not like, I'm like, law wise, I'm pro-choice, but I still think abor, I've had four different podcasts with, oh, I had an abortion doctor on, I had a woman who went through an abortion, is now pro-life. I've had a pro-life feminist. I've had a a, a medical student who's, who wants to give abortions and stuff. Like, like I'm very curious about it, but I still, I don't know, I don't think it's, again, the ideal. Let's, so let's, let's not aim for this idea of like, well, if I get pregnant then it's, I just, I'll just take care of it. I just, I guess that's where I see sex as a little bit different. I hear you. And I'm, I'm on board with you with all of this stuff, but that's why I guess I see sex a little bit different. 1 (1h 33m 48s): I think the, the ramifications are you're creating life and that seems like a really important 0 (1h 33m 53s): Thing for sure. And that's a serious, that is obviously a very serious thing to consider, especially if you're a woman. But we are also not taught that you can only get pregnant. Like there's only a chance of you getting pregnant six days a week. Yeah. So if you believe in intelligent design, which I do, and I love that theory. I sent you that Sheldon clip, I think it's just so wonderful. If you believe in intelligent design and everything is for a purpose, then you wouldn't, especially as a woman, you wouldn't have an organ and strictly for pleasure. Right? Men don't have it. You don't have a single thing on your body that is strictly for pleasure. Women have something that is strictly for pleasure. And then if that was only to create life, that thing would only be turned on six days, a a month, six days a month. 0 (1h 34m 36s): Because you're incentivized, because there is this, before organized religion, there is this idea, and the French call it the climax, the little death. So the little death is the death of the ego. So it's in that moment of peak pleasure, you have transcended identity and there's now this merge that's happening. And that merges not only with the person that you're having sex with, but it's with God, it's with the universe. It is like you are transcended out of this 3D and you become something so much bigger than you are. So yes, I think sex can be spiritual, but I don't think that that means that it necessarily needs to be within one specific container. 0 (1h 35m 17s): Is it different? And is that valuable? Yes. Marriage is immensely valuable. Monogamy is immensely invaluable. That's not what I'm saying. But it's saying that to just challenge the idea that sex is only for procreation because there's so many design things that it's like, maybe not, because back then it was like sodomy was anything but sex for a baby. Right? So I think most of us agree that that should be allowed. That's not a problem. Especially even if you were married, that would've been a no-No. Yeah. 1 (1h 35m 45s): No. And I, and I didn't, I didn't mean that. It's only, I've heard that being said like, yeah, the only reason, that's not what I'm saying. I just, it is playing with the, it is playing with like, if women don't know their bodies and they don't know if they're ovulating or not, like, which a lot of young girls, they don't know anything about their bodies, which is so sad. You're still playing with, you're rolling the dice to some degree with something that seems very, very important, very big. You know? And that, I guess, I guess that's it, but 0 (1h 36m 13s): No. Yeah. And I agree. And I think that those, those guardrails need to be a lot tighter on people that are younger. Right. I think when you get older, you can kind of expand what's, what do you want, what do you wanna play around with? But I think when, when you're young, you don't, you don't have the capabilities to understand the full gravity of any of those decisions. So it should be taken seriously. But I'm talking like, I'm talking more like college post-college, that kind of thing. I think those rules are very different. I mean, in high school it's terrifying. It's terrifying to think about. Yeah. Yeah. 1 (1h 36m 43s): Girls don't know their own bias. Guys don't, I mean, there are kids and I've taught kids who will not talk about sex with their partner, but they'll have sex with their partner. Like that's the kind of stuff that's like, we like ready 0 (1h 36m 54s): For it then. Yeah. 1 (1h 36m 55s): What they like, what they don't like. Like that's the stuff that's so taboo. The, the thing about like porn industry is like, you just don't talk about it. Everyone's looking at it. Everyone knows it exists, but no one's talking about it. That's the thing that I want to be able to like get it out in the, so thank you for talking to me about this. 'cause I think that's important to like putting it, putting it out there. You know, my wife read some book about sexual stuff and she was like going through something. It was really interesting. She's like, they're learning stuff. She's like, do you know how many women probably have never like started this, I don't know, be crude for you, but like your audience. But like, you know, like looked at their like private parts, like in a mirror. Like, like really? Like look, 0 (1h 37m 28s): You not a lot. 1 (1h 37m 28s): Oh, not a lot. Like middle-aged women have never done that, ever. You know, so you don't really, you don't even know your own body. Like shouldn't you know your own body. It goes back to like we were saying about these, these tests and stuff like that. Knowing who you are inside and out, physically, emotionally, mentally. It just seems like that should be a really, really important part of, of the way that education happens. Probably not ideally in a school. No. But, you know, but like promoted by however kids are getting educated hopefully by, by their homes or something along those lines. 0 (1h 38m 0s): Yeah. And then the educators will, if they're not doing it at the house, then it's our job. And it's like, no, not necessarily. That's not how it works. 1 (1h 38m 7s): Get out the hand here, ladies. 0 (1h 38m 9s): Yeah. They're not your kids. And you should be able to, you can disagree with how people raise their kids. 'cause I've heard that too from certain administrators where they're like, well, well the kid will come and they'll say something and I know that's not them. I know that this, that's their parent talking. Okay, move on. Yeah. Right. That's, 1 (1h 38m 24s): Yeah, it's business. It's not your job to, to do that. No, that's, that's a, that's a big thing for sure. 0 (1h 38m 29s): No, this has been awesome. I don't wanna take too much of your time, but before we wrap it up, do you wanna tell people where they can follow you, how they can support you, projects you're working on, all that good stuff? 1 (1h 38m 41s): Yeah. Thank you. So I really enjoyed this conversation. I really did. Me too. I don't know if it was, if it was interesting to your audience. I apologize if it wasn't, but I really enjoyed it. So, so just my name Will Roche, that's on Instagram. At Instagram is the, the platform that I use for social media. And then William Roush is my, I just have a website, William roush, R-E-U-S-C h.com. And that's gonna be the place where I'm gonna have all of my homeschool curriculum and stuff like that, starting with US History class, all applicable stuff. I'm not gonna teach a single thing from history that you can't apply right now as a 16-year-old and then apply going out into the world. And then I'm also gonna be teaching a civics class and, and I'm trying to do something. All the stuff that we're talking about, Ken is like, I'm trying to do something that's scalable. 1 (1h 39m 22s): I love that you're doing an AE school. I love that. I want the, I was still work dealing with like the, the bandwidth issue of I only have 25 kids in front of me. How can I scale good education? If you're a good teacher, then how? Let's get you as many students as possible. So it's, it's something I'm playing with and I really appreciate your audience, checking it out, giving me pushback, giving me feedback and stuff like that. I really thank you so much for giving me this platform. 0 (1h 39m 45s): Oh my gosh, of course. Anytime. I'd love to have you back on. I think it's so important. I think creating content is a great way to do exactly that and scale something that in the past hasn't been scalable. And I think that's how you create changes through competition. So keep doing your thing. I love it. I'll keep following you and support you throughout your journey and I appreciate you. 1 (1h 40m 4s): Same Candace, same. 0 (1h 40m 5s): Well that's it for this week's episode of Chatting with Candace. If you enjoyed the episode, please share it with a friend or two. Leave that five star review and if you comment something nice, maybe I will read it on the next episode. And again, if you wanna support the podcast, go to Chatting with Candace dot com and check out all of the links below. Thank you everybody, and I'll see you next time. Bye.
