Renat Gabitov is an entrepreneur that grew up with a nomadic family. He is such a positive person that has thoughtfully crafted his life. He is the founder of https://www.lifestyle.engineering/ he also has a really great podcast LE Podcast. Check out his site, give him a follow, or a listen.
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0 (4s): Hello, everybody. You're listening to Chatting with Candice. I'm your host Candice Squareback. Before we get started on this week's episode, if you want to support the podcast, you can go to Chatting with candice.com and sign up for our Patrion account. You get early access to episodes, bonus content, live AMHS and shout outs on our podcast. Speaking of shout outs this week, shout out is going to be to Andrew Brode, Dell. Thank you for being a Patrion, supporting the podcast. It means a ton to me and to all of you that sign up. It helps me to continue podcasting. Last bit of housekeeping, hydration. It's super important. You know, you should be drinking more water. I know I should be drinking more water. 0 (45s): I just don't have the time. So liquid Ivy has my back with special technology that I am not smart enough to understand it hydrates you three times more effectively, and three times faster. The flavors are really great. They have a defense powder that's really good for going into cold and flu season. They have a nighttime powder that honestly is amazing. I take it before bed and I'm just out. It just gives me very restful sleep. So if you go to the liquid-ivy.com and use code Candice, you can save 25%. Again that's liquid-ivy.com and code Candice to save 25%. All right. Whew. That was a lot this week. We have Renat Gabitov joining the podcast as well as my husband, Eric. 0 (1m 28s): I love bringing Eric on because I love getting a male perspective as well as like someone who is a bit of an entrepreneur. I think it adds a lot of value to the conversation. Renat is a serial entrepreneur and nomad the founder of Lifestyle. Engineering just a really cool guy. We had an awesome conversation. I hope you learn a lot and have a lot of fun enjoy. Alright, well, thank you for joining the podcast today. 1 (1m 56s): If you want to. Well, I should also do that because I never do this. We also have my husband, Eric joining. So the other mysterious voices is the husband. So you are the founder of Lifestyle Engineering what is Lifestyle Engineering to you? What does that mean? Lifestyle Engineering is my, my little community together. And my ambition was when I was going up to find people who are just like me, who are adventurous, who are open-minded in who ask themselves a question. Okay, what is possible? And when I was growing up personally, I had, I had this question when reading biographies, I asked him if that person can do it, can they also do it? And I thought I could, with that, it's kind of a blessing and a curse because it's a curse because you got to put yourself into our minds where you have for you. 1 (2m 43s): You have to go and pursue kind of the most challenging things that are out there in the world. And the blessing is it's, it's freaking exciting, but it's pretty awesome. So, and Candice, you were on my podcast as well. Lifestyle Engineering podcast is about essentially writing book right now. And what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to decode how people find fulfillment and meaning in their lives. And the idea is to interview people from all walks of life, from Navy seals, to entrepreneurs and other folks, and try to understand what they have in common and how they find that thing that they're passionate. 0 (3m 19s): It's just a small task that you're trying to accomplish. Nothing, nothing huge. So basically it sounds like living life on purpose to me, which I think is really important. And then like consciously crafting your life, instead of just like, I guess, drifting through it or not participating in your life. Would you say that's accurate? 1 (3m 37s): Exactly. You know, Candice, it's, it's very interesting how I believe that the personal development industry got it wrong. They tell us to look for all of the answers inside. You know, we were taught that, Hey, if I meditate enough on what I want out of life, then all of a sudden, all of the answers are going to come to me and I'm going to have a perfect plan for what I want my life to be. And my book thesis is actually approaching the same question backwards. It says, Hey, what if we do not know what we're passionate about? And then the idea is okay, if you did not know if you, if that is the starting point, then how can we become more self-aware how can we find those like passions, interests, and ways of living that will make us the happiest that we can be. 1 (4m 27s): And the answer that I found is through experimentation. So you put yourself in new environments, you do things that you believe that are going to make you more and more joyful, more excited. Essentially, you create a hypothesis for what you believe is going to bring you the one that you do, a test and boom, you either prove the hypothesis, right. Or you prove it wrong. That's so cool. I mean, if you don't mind, let's rewind the taste a little bit, and I want to find out where this all started for you. And where did this journey start? How did you even come up with this? And then like what, like kind of trial and error did you have to go through in order to like, come up with the recipe that you came up with, the design a life. 1 (5m 14s): So the first of all, for a day for the background, I was born in a Nomadic family. So my parents, they did have a base in, in Russia, in Moscow, but their formative years were spent when the Soviet union collapsed. And before Soviet union, you cannot get information all that easily. You only can consume information that's on TV and you can not go outside of the country. There is very little diversity of thoughts that, that you get to experience and the Soviet union collapses. And then they say, okay, what, you know, what, if we go and experience the world, you know? And then they had me and my sister, which he didn't stop them. They pretty much took me and my sister everywhere. 1 (5m 56s): And by now I've been close to 70 countries. I'm not sure if it's over or under, I don't care anymore. And yeah, that's, that's probably a really excited about trying new things and step into other people's perspectives and other ways of doing things. I think that's, that's kind of the onset of the journey. Or did I hear you say Nomadic family? Can you unpack that for us a little bit? Like, what is the Nomadic? Well, I guess Nomadic family will be the one that doesn't doesn't have a home base. And in my case, they were, they were Nomadic. We had a home base in, in Moscow, but my parents, they just want to go places. 1 (6m 40s): And maybe every month or every couple months they would just buy a ticket randomly. Sometimes it was to Thailand. Sometimes I ended up in Africa, in Africa, going on the, on the, on this Jeep and the lions and really seeing how, you know, how people live in the tribes, how they live in the houses made of out of poop. It was a really cool, I only got to appreciate it now, because I do remember there was this moment in someone, the United Kingdom, I was, I was in the back seat and I was so annoyed. I was like, fuck, we're going to the next location to see the next thing. And it's like, can I just sit home and do my thing and watch movies, play video games or whatever. 1 (7m 22s): I was so tired of going to all of those places. 2 (7m 25s): That's incredible. So where did you guys stay? Like? So you had a family of four and you'd be, like you said, visiting tribes, would you be staying with them 1 (7m 34s): In that particular example? We will, we did like an experience with them and it's actually not very difficult to do if you're not doing it for the touristy, the way my dad, he doesn't like doing touristy stuff. So he, he rents a car, usually in every country and we end up just driving and stopping anywhere that, that we are pleased. And that comes also with what the downside and the downside is you roll in at 1:00 AM in a tiniest city or somewhere in Croatia, before smart phones. He did not tell you, do not know where the hotels are or how to find them. So you literally bang on the doors and ask, Hey, is there a hotel? 1 (8m 15s): And I remember us having, we once, once in Italy, actually we had to, we couldn't find, we couldn't find hotels. It was, it was like in Rome and the only hotels that were open, they were like super expensive. They're like three, $400. And we ended up staying in the car. That was the only experience that I remember. I slept in the trunk 2 (8m 36s): Of the car. No, but it 1 (8m 38s): Was super fun. You know, as a kid, you just want to know, you just want to do cool things and everything. That's unusual. It's, it's not, it's not, it's an experience. So we'll wake up. We'll wake up in that car. My, my parents let me out. And when we realized it was dark, when we parked the car, it, we realized that we parked where they're dumping cars for metal, and they're really working them tower guard next to next to that spot. 2 (9m 6s): So that's a, that's an incredible, so what are the belief system like? Right from the get go it's like uncertainties, no big deal. We're just going to go do so we do, we know we were going to stay, let's go bang on some doors and we have to, we'll just stay in his rental car. 0 (9m 19s): Oh my gosh. I couldn't function like that. I'm someone that thrives off of like predictability, like just planning. I love planning. It's what gets me like really excited. I would be nervous. You're probably this way. Cause it was so chaotic in the beginning, but I want an adventure. 1 (9m 36s): Yeah. I think so for me right now, exactly the same way. I love clarity. I like setting goals. I have a 40 page document. It's like a life manifesto where I say what I want out of life and different categories of life. So I'm trying to be extremely strategic and in Lifestyle Engineering what we'll do is we look at different data and ways to quantify what would want of when running the experiments. Right? And one thing I would, I would say, I did not think that taking risks is necessarily risky or leaning into an uncertainty is a risky thing. Because if you've done it enough, if you gone on the same road trips where you will not know what to say, if you figure it out 10 times out of 10, then you know that, Hey, it's, it's actually like, what's the worst thing that can happen. 1 (10m 21s): Okay. The worst thing is I sleep in the car, big deal. And so, and that reduces risk massively a massive like the, the, the risk in terms of how you, how you fear. I would say a fear is a better word, fear of uncertainty. So you, you can have uncertainty, but it's not scary anymore. 2 (10m 42s): Yeah. The risk is one of those things that there is like a spectrum of it. So there's like risk-tolerance and everybody has a different tolerance for it, which means that it's just a pure, right. And once you can identify that as just up here, then you could be like, okay, you can gauge whichever way you want it to be. And you can kind of like design it your own, your own way. 0 (10m 60s): And it's like, anything else too, right? Like if you have the more exposure you have to something like the less you react to it over time. 1 (11m 6s): Absolutely. It's also something that is subjective, right. Because one person fears, spiders, the other person doesn't care. Yeah. I guess, I guess it depends what a, you know, w what is risk? How do we define him? 'cause once we define the risks, then we get to evaluate it. And everybody is going to have a different way to, to value dress based on their specific circumstances and belief systems. 2 (11m 28s): So how do we get started on like, what's the beginning steps for Lifestyle Engineering. And so her and I have been talking to 20, 20 completely fuck everyone everyone's plans, the plans you can goal set up all you want in 20, 20, put a big wrench in it and they buy. So it's kind of a really incredible opportunity for people to just kind of start over. Let's like, go back to first principles and find out what it is 1 (11m 54s): Exactly what it is makes sense for us. So that's something we've been talking about a lot is like, okay, well, let's just start here. Where's the next 10 years is going to take us. And then what are the steps? I don't reverse engineer the next 10 years to be, how do we reverse engineer it and then execute on exactly what it is to get there. But then 2020 happens. Exactly. So start over, right. Let's figure out what the next 10 years is going to be. So from your company, the Lifestyle Engineering company, like what are the, what are the steps we should take or someone should take to get, to get started? Absolutely. So just for a little bit of context as well, Lifestyle Engineering is my passion project, and this is something that gives me fulfillment. 1 (12m 36s): I'm an entrepreneur myself. I ran an online education company previously that I exited from, and I'm on to the next adventure. I'm also into startups like you. So Lifestyle Engineering is something that, that is just feel incredible about because I have, I have the people who are a part of the community, and I have an excuse to have something that I can come back in and say, Hey, this is like, this is something that I love and be an essential Lifestyle Engineering is one of those things that I could leverage to pursue my curiosity. And I know Candice talks about pursuing curiosity a lot for me, I can, I get to the interview really interesting humans and say, Hey, this is like, I'm trying to decode human experience, fulfillment, purpose, all of those things. 1 (13m 23s): And then it goes on there, I guess, and under that theme. So that's just for context, because I think, I think it's important too, to know that I'm not just teaching things or teaching people how to experiment with life and what to do on writing books. I'm also being like a professional developing and many facets. So to come back to the big question and the big question. Okay. So right now there is a little bit more uncertainty. How do we run experiments? Right. So my take on experiments is if we did not know the starting point, or if we are not certain what we'll want from life, first of all, creating some constraints is very important. So I try to pick a category and say, we pick a category relationships, and there I'm trying to understand how do I want to feel if my relationships are solid, if everything is going is going super well. 1 (14m 15s): So if I know, okay, I want to feel you, you guys have the guys have an answer. I know that relationships is a big, is a big theme. Then I guess you might be passionate about it. How do you want to feel if a relationship is going well? Yeah. I separate like life and like nine different categories is one of them can be really romantic relationships. How do you guys feel when relationships are dialed when you were like the happiest you can't be in a relationship? I think is huge. I think having a sense of interdependence instead of being codependent, I think that's like a fundamental part of having a healthy, so you both have fulfilled lives separately, but also a fulfilled life together. 1 (14m 58s): So I think if some person maybe like is maybe struggling or doesn't have a sense of purpose and that's going to negatively affect the relationship, but it's when you both have something that you're excited about separately, and then you're both excited for your life together and you feel accepted all of these things, except the belonging love that. Having an independence as well. And co-dependence, and so we identify a few of you. Awesome words. Can you tell me a few examples of you feeling those feelings? Like when do you feel those things? I would say when shit hits the fan, that you feel incredibly supported by the people that you're in a relationship with any, maybe any specific particular example from life that, that comes to mind, you don't have to share, you can get a personal. 1 (15m 48s): So for me, the first thing that comes to mind, like our son had a really traumatic birth and something that could of been the worst situation of my life. Like we got so insanely close and like, we're very like supportive of each other. And when one person like needed to cry, the other one was like, you know, a sign or a pillar of like four to two and vice versa. So we were really good at just like knowing what the other person needed, I think, without having to even talk, because there wasn't a lot of talking, we were just kind of just trying to like power through it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 1 (16m 29s): And those are, those are fantastic. Those are fantastic examples and appreciate you guys sharing. So the, the way that I create experience experiments is I look at evidence from my life that made me think that, Hey, I actually do want belonging. You know, I do want to feel like there is somebody who is going to be there for me during the most difficult times of my life. And from there, you can say, okay, how can I distill it further Ohio? How can I prove those things? Maybe you guys could do a tough mater race together, hypothetically just putting it out loud or whatever, whatever, whatever you guys like. And so we can take one of the S some of those experiences and, and we can engineer that has those components in it. 1 (17m 17s): Right? You can do more things that strengthened your relationship. And that's what Lifestyle, Engineering in many ways is about a lot of folks. They say, Hey, I want X, Y, and Z. I want you to be an actress. You know, I want to, I want to be a singer. They'd never do it. They've never tried it. They've never tried it. And that's the problem that I have. Like, how do you know if those are the things that you want, if you want to be a mattress, if you've never been in the industry, if you've never been on set, if you have no idea that yeah. You may hit. Exactly. Exactly. So, so yeah, just finding, creating that, those hypothesis. And then what I personally like doing is I like running experiments that are 30 days long, or sometimes a monster and a half long. And there are a few that I'd be happy to share with you. 1 (17m 59s): Yeah, of course. Yeah. So right now the most recent experiment is a phone free week. So it's day six, I'm living without a phone. It's amazing. And what I'm testing, which is very important. What's the objective of the experiment. I'm testing. Am I going to be happier and more present without a phone? The answer is so far is hell yes. So I'm, I'm going to buy an old phone from the matrix, you know, the one, the one with like the green screen and like the big buttons. And that's what I'm going to have, like going forward, because that's the experiment I wanted to do a, I'm going to, I'm going to still have a smartphone, but I'm going to leave it at home. 1 (18m 41s): And then if people want to get in touch with me, I'll have the old ass matrix film. 0 (18m 48s): It is a new company. I can't think of the name, but it was just Joe Rogan just talked about it. And it's a new phone that all it has is phone calls, text messaging. And Podcast like, there's, you cannot add anything else to, and that's where he said that he went wrong. He was like, you should have just had phone calls and texting. But I think it's really important to kind of a disconnect a little bit. I know I, for 1:00 AM like on my phone way too much. And I already know my answer would be, yes, I'm happier. If I had went a week without my phone, I also saw that you announced that you were like off of social media and you like were unfollowing everyone. I was like, what is he up to? 1 (19m 23s): You could be surprised by how many people took it personally. So that's another experiment. That's another experiment that I wanted to do. I want to see, well, I kind of knew that I'm less happy when I checked social media. That was something I was certain about. I'm a big fan of the binary approach to life. It's like either I do something all in, or I did not do it all. And with social media, I keep coming back to it. I keep getting distracted to be very honest. You know, I've been using my social media to talk to girls for the most part. And, and most of my meaningful friendships they happen on, on WhatsApp anyways. So what I want to do is I want it to go kind of cold Turkey on Instagram. 1 (20m 5s): And the way to do it is to do is to unfollow everybody. And most of the people that, that I've met, I might not be able to, you know, to, to find once again. But with that being said, yeah, you're giving something away. And yes, social media has its benefits, and it's very easy to have the, those little benefits. But what about that little thing? And you connecting with like the unique person or whatever, everything in life has a tradeoff. And in the case of social media, the downside is so massive. So massive for me. And mainly with mental health and mainly with mental health right now, we are going through a massive pandemic for context. 1 (20m 47s): I was trapped in my apartment for five months in Argentina. They had a lock down for five months, the restaurants were closed, everything was closed. You could just go to the grocery store and, you know, you could do takeout, but I was also in a country where I'd not speak the language where I did not have a friend circle. And that mess with me that wasn't a with me mentally. And I started taking my mental health a lot more seriously, and this is something I'm very passionate about. And I love to see what we can do in order to, in order to mitigate for, for the challenges that are going to happen. 1 (21m 27s): I really believe that because of this year, I think, and the entire generation is going to get a little, a little screwed from, from that perspective or even beyond social media and phones. 0 (21m 38s): No, I think so too. I think people are going to have a lot of like social anxiety that maybe they never had before, just from lack of communication with people. I think people are going to be more of like depressed because they feel more disconnected. I think there's a lot of fear that is going to be even subconsciously instilled in people. So like now maybe they're going to be more negative about like their health maybe, and they might not necessarily need to. So what are some steps that you would say for someone that's like feeling these mental effects of like the pandemic in general, 1 (22m 10s): To be very Frank, I'm not the person to ask. And I try to speak about things that I'm an expert at. I still have challenges with, you know, with, you know, feeling sad from time to time. So I'm very open about those things. I think it's a very human thing to do. And in fact, I believe that one we share, then we, we get to be more connected with people because they, because they say, Oh, I feel the same way. It's like a, here's a, here's what I try. Or if you ever want to give me a call or let's go do something fun, you know, it's really helpful. So accepting emotions is something that worked really well for me specifically. And this is something putting you, you know, when I feel sad, I'm just like, fuck, I don't want to feel sad. 1 (22m 53s): It kind of sucks to feel sad, but that's rejecting and emotion. And there are multiple ways to reject an emotion. One of the common ways I resort too, is to put a wall in being different, being the gray areas. And that sucks because what I learned from a friend of mine and that turned out to be really true for me, you cannot selectively turn off one emotion. If you're turning off emotions, you are turning out of all of them. That's happiness, excitement, you know, thrill. It's all of the good things as well. So what I started doing is I started, I started kind of leaning in and saying, Hey, yeah, I feel sad. You know, it's art, but that's what it is. 1 (23m 36s): What makes me feel sad? Or like, why, why, why is that the case? And here's the thing. So once I accept something like an emotional sadness, and then I look at my environment, then I look at my thoughts. Then I look at the, the, the things that are kind of the inputs that get processed by my body. And there is an output sentence or whatever. So for me, I realize that I didn't hug as a person for three months in Argentina. I was like, that's messed up. 3 (24m 4s): That's not cool. 1 (24m 6s): And what I did, I just like, I literally bought a ticket to go here to Istanbul in Turkey. And I knew the environment's that made me feel happy. And I just put myself in the student environment and things have been pretty awesome. 2 (24m 21s): That's awesome. And it's so easy, it's it doesn't have to be that hard. I know a lot of the men, especially that I've talked to will overanalyze the hell out of their own feelings, but sadness in general, you'll probably don't have to overanalyze it or a frustration or anger like everyone around you is arguing right now. And the state's anyway. And I know in a lot of places in the world, like everyone's on Twitter, yelling at each other or frustrating, of course, you're going to feel frustrated, right? Someone might say something that sparks something inside of you or something that connects that makes you angry. Of course you're going to be right. It's what we decide to do with those emotions. It's the important part. Are you going to act on them? Are we gonna act negatively towards somebody else because of those emotions rather than just accept them and feel it and be like, okay, this is an interesting emotion. 1 (25m 3s): I love what you mentioned just now. I believe that emotions are a guiding force for us to, to make better decisions. So if we're checking Twitter and then it makes us feel angry, if it's unproductive anger and by unproductive, I mean, nothing happens other than you feeling angry, then you should probably not. Check Twitter is as simple as it gets, but if you feel angry because something messed up is happening in the world, go ahead and do something about it. Because the way people find, find things that they're passionate about, because anger is also a student of passion, right? That you, you might have or values that are different from the other person. 1 (25m 47s): And you want the world to be more consistent with your values or you're angry because the say the fires are burning California, or because minorities did not have a voice, whatever, go do something about it. Like if you feel anger, it's alright. It's a, it's a force that tells you, Hey, you might be, you might be passionate about it. I think it's better to feel anger than to feeling difference and to feel nothing about what's happening. 2 (26m 13s): Yeah, totally. I agree. And I love that. You said more or less, you said like screening your inputs. Once you realize that something is making you feel this way, if it's unproductive, then stop, remove that input. Right. Trying to find and replace it with something more powerful. Like social media is something is making you angry. If your following a particular page or something like that. And everything they post is really making you angry, but it's coming from an unproductive place than just follow something more powerful, follow something and more, more interesting, follow some other curiosity and replace with that. Right. 1 (26m 45s): Exactly. 0 (26m 46s): So there is, I've had a lot of men tell me that it's a very hard for them to even like, pinpoint what they're feeling like. It's hard for them to identify emotions. But I think a lot of that is just like how we've raised boy's in the past. So can you give some tips to listeners how you are so able to like, pinpoint what you're feeling? Cause like both of you obviously seem to be pretty self-aware when it comes to like, I'm feeling this, so I'm going to do this about it. So a lot of people aren't there yet. So how do you, like first, I guess is like, know what emotion is being? 1 (27m 22s): I'll leave that to you. I mean, it was not the longest. She used to say I had the emotional span of a teaspoon in my experience, getting context on a man's experience of life, of like, what we do we feel is, is very important when I was living in Bali. And they'll tell you me living around the world as well. And so when I was living in Bali, I spend there seven months, I started going to men groups and that was like men's circles. Or, and essentially in those groups, you have an environment to authentically share whatever is happening in your life. If you're feeling insecure, you say that if you have problems in relationships, and if, you know, somebody may made you feel a certain way, you say it. 1 (28m 10s): And there were a number of really beautiful things that, that happened for me attending number one was an incredible level of belonging to fellow men. I was like, fuck this guys. Or just me, they experienced same things like I do. Okay. You know, they too feel rejected. You know, they too feel insecure from time to time they to feel excited, whatever it is. And I realize, Hey, like this is really cool. And I look, I started looking at men differently as well. Instead of looking at them as adversaries, I started looking at them, Hey, there are other, other guys just like me going through the same experiences. 1 (28m 51s): And like, I want them to feel good. You know, I want, I want them to be successful in all endeavors. I want them to get laid. I want them to be, you know, to make money. So context context was really important. It's the reason I like reading biographies as well. Just knowing how people think of what people go through, massively powerful. I am the true if it's a, if it's a good enough answer, but this is, this is, this was one of the things that, that helped me tremendously in just understanding of what I'm going through and building up my self awareness. Because people also give you input and say, Hey, it's like, I've had that as well. And you might want to think about it from this different angle. 1 (29m 32s): So having an external output on what you're feeling, because we feel a lot of the times is something that we feel would not know how to about it. Having another person that is unbiased to look at my life and say, Hey, those are bullshit stories that you are telling yourself, you should stop doing this. And you can not feel yourself that way, but in my, in my experience. So yeah, having, having a perspective and have having an external input on what you're going through, those are the things that, 0 (30m 7s): And I think that's super helpful. So when you're traveling all over the world, are you doing this like mostly by yourself? Or do you have like a buddy that's going with you? 1 (30m 15s): I usually traveled by myself most of the time a child or by myself. I'm trying to change my approach a little bit because I realized again that I'm a lot happier when I go to see people that I'm already in deep relationships with. So I know a lot of people just because I'm a very extroverted person. I invest into building your relationships. I also have certain skills that allow me to connect with females and, and just people in general and having the quantity, having a lot of relationships do not. It doesn't make me happier. Having a deeper relationships is what makes me a lot happier. 1 (30m 56s): And what I try to do right now is, Oh, I'm going to go to a place where I know I'm going to be surrounded by people who love me, who appreciate me, who I appreciate and who we can go deep and do cool things. So here in Turkey, I just moved to a Turkey at, this is one of the only places I can go to a hold of a Russian passport during a pandemic kind of Sox. But so I rented, I rented this beautiful place, very central and I have a guest bedroom by design and about probably over 10 people in the last. So I've been here for maybe four or five weeks around 10, 12. People have gone through my apartment, just the two folks. 1 (31m 37s): Two folks just flew out that they just left for from my apartment. There is this entrepreneurs, you know, from, from Ukraine, you know, I had folks from America coming from just all over the world, and this has become a spot where people can come and stay for free and just enjoy it. Have great conversations be productive at, yeah. So this is a, this is one of the things that I've done in terms of people. 0 (32m 4s): That's so neat. So when you're traveling by yourself and you're finding like these men's groups, like how do you go about discovering? 1 (32m 10s): And to be Frank, I did not proactively do this. This was when I was living in Bali. This is something that happened. This is something that happened. Just somebody told me how powerful it was. I was super skeptical. I was so skeptical. I was like, no freaking way. Am I going to attend one of those? It sounds like Chris, the wearing hippies are going to teach me to be more mindful. Fuck that. And then I came out, I was like, it was at a CrossFit gym. It was like, no bullshit or super honest, you know, and one of the rules that we have no coaching, no coaching, you can only share your experience. And then that, that was an amazing and amazing thing because nobody give you advice, 2 (32m 53s): Which is there. So I've, I'm in an entrepreneur group like that, but it takes, and it's almost every time I go, I now I'm better at it. Cause I've been doing it for a year or over a year, but it was almost before that. It was every time I go, I always could find a reason not to do it or not to go and have to like find out, okay, what is it, why am I sabotaging myself? Cause I know that it's important to have these groups that have like-minded human beings that you can talk to that can, you can like communicate your emotions and communicate these things because otherwise they'd pop up and they turn into something or you can like act out on them. If you don't actually like share, like you said earlier, an entrepreneurship group. Yeah. It's called the EO 1 (33m 33s): Entrepreneurial entrepreneurs organization. Yeah. I've a very familiar, yeah. 2 (33m 37s): Yeah. It's not, it's not a minute, but I've never done any men's group stuff. I have one coming up. That's pretty similar to the men's group, but I haven't actually done the men's group stuff, but I I'll speak for a lot of the men. I know. And, and entrepreneurial, like even people that don't go to these types of groups, we will not have the ego. I think that the natural reaction to him is it's a waste of time. Like this is, this is the thought loop that's going on inside their head. I don't need that. Like, what is it going to do for me? You know what I mean? And there's like all these questions as to like what the, what the fuck is the point? Like, why am I going to go to a men's group and share my feelings with a bunch of dudes? And the thing is, so the reason why I had gone to similar stuff in the past is because I was like, well, I can't think of a good reason why not to. 2 (34m 26s): And if I'm measuring my life on the experiences that I have, then this is some sort of avoidance that I'm experiencing right now. So why don't I just try it regardless of the negative feelings I have towards that, or the judgment that I have, right? Cause judgments there for a reason and why not just jump in and try it and see, see what happens. And then that all of a sudden you find out like, Whoa, that felt kind of good man with a group of people. That's nice. I think like me 1 (34m 57s): Totally. I think there, there are a number of things that, that might be happening with entrepreneur groups. I've been to a large number of entrepreneurial groups as well. EO in particular, as far as I know is a broad, it's a big group of people. So you have a chapter right then. 2 (35m 15s): Yeah. There's 14,000 members. There's chapters in different cities. All of the world. Yeah. 1 (35m 21s): Relationships is, is very important. Yeah. And it's, it's close to, impossible to connect with when you have like hundreds upon hundreds of people that that's that's I guess one thing on second thing would be clarity, like clarity as for like, why do you want do it is for me going to men's groups is I want to do this because I feel better when there is an outlet to express myself and express things that I cannot express outside of that find environment. You know, I cannot just walk in the street, meet up in the, you know, meet up around the person is not going to judge me. He was going to listen to me that, you know, for, for a certain period of time. 1 (36m 2s): And so that, I think that is also the clarity, getting clarity as for like why you want to do things. A lot of entrepreneurship groups that I've been a part of. It's like, if there is nothing in particular on once out of, out of them, then I'm not going to be excited. I'm not going to participate because entrepreneurship is a very broad, like if there is a group of people who want to say, go from 1 million to 10 million, you know, the run a company that focuses on whatever or like in this industry. And it's like, cool, I'll talk, you know, I'll talk to them. This is exactly what I want to accomplish. Here's the deal. I know exactly why I want to accomplish those things. So getting to clarity, I think if people are not certain, then I will try to get the clarity and I'll try to also write down the excuses and see if the excuses are valid or my, why am I, you know, have those excuses, like, is this a defense mechanism or is this a good point? 2 (36m 56s): You've been an entrepreneur your whole life. If you had a, like a real job 1 (36m 58s): Ever, I freelanced 4 (37m 1s): A little bit, a little bit, but yeah, 1 (37m 3s): Mainly, mainly I've been entrepreneurial the majority of my life. And to be very honest, kind of going away from being an entrepreneur has really, really difficult. So my previous business, the reason I left my previous business that was around four months ago, everything was going stellar. We reached all of our goals. I had an amazing team of people who literally told me for not getting at this company and doing this work has changed my life. Thank you so much. I got all of the good things that, that I kind of wrote on paper. And I realized that having the best case scenario in that company wasn't fulfilling enough or didn't feel good enough. 1 (37m 51s): So if the best case scenario doesn't work out for you, then, then there was no point of doing it. So I left, I left my partnership and right now I'm looking for my, my next adventure. And I left it. Not because I didn't have ideas of work to take that specific business. I didn't feel like I had enough power to steer the ship where I want it to go and to move quick enough. So that's why I've been entrepreneur real kind of throw out my life. I like, I like having, having this freedom. I like having this kind of a little bit of control as well of like what I get to create. 2 (38m 32s): Yeah. I think a lot of people that are, while we all had to work from, for awhile, 1 (38m 36s): Right? Like how many, six months, and now it's becoming like a super normal thing to work from home. So I think a lot of people, it might be the thing that can be clicking, like, wait, like what else can I do? Like, I think you called yourself at one of your blogs or stuff like a digital nomad. Right. And I think a lot of people are starting to feel like digital nomads because they're like, shit, I can do this job. I can freelance. I can do exactly what I do with the freedom of being at home and being with my family and actually still in the fulfillment of being with my family. But you know, it's very different to be a freelancer and earn your own money. It's very different to do that as it is to start a company as an entrepreneur and start something from scratch or just invent an idea or invent something that might benefit X amount of people. 1 (39m 22s): Like that's two very different things. And I think a lot of people want to figure out how to bridge that gap between working for a company from home, which is what they're doing to starting something fresh and they can call our own and actually like Lifestyle, Engineering their career. So it sounds like you've bridged that gap already several times. It's kind of like the way that you do things. Do you have any, like, I guess what is it, what does it take to go from one to the other? And you know, when it comes to deciding like this is something I'm passionate about and it's worth it, I'm going to put all the energy into it. Like how did, how do you know? Yeah. And the, and I guess my answer would come back to the idea of experimentation. 1 (40m 4s): Again, let's, let's try it out. Let's let's freelance. Let's not commit to one particular business. Let's try working in a different ones as a, as a freelancer or with, I don't think everybody should be entrepreneurs because that's not necessarily what brings them happiness and fulfillment. A lot of people that want stability, safety, and they want depth. And for me, the challenge of my personality is I like experimentation. I get excited really quickly about things I sprint, but then I get bored and I, and in order to build businesses, you need to give them a few years and see, see how they go. You need to find solutions to them, to the roadblocks that, that come in, when you get distracted, it's really tough to deal. 1 (40m 48s): So I don't think everybody should be an entrepreneur. I think it could be really interesting for somebody to try something out, not a trial with the business and see if you like it, or try a freelancing for myself. What I found. And I found that through also experimentation and trying a lot of different professional routes. I realized that I liked the depth that I get to experience professionally. For example, I started a company and in 2000, in 2018, we had like nothing. It was just me and my business partners. And then we got one employee. Then we got five. Then we got 10 that we got 15. And then I realized, Hey, like I am really passionate about seeing projects through and developing people, developing, and please leadership development is something I absolutely loved. 1 (41m 39s): I did a lot of exercises on helping people outline will be one from life and what they want professionally, how they want to grow, giving the projects based on the directions. They want to grow into the based on things that they want to learn. And that was one of the things I realized through actually committing to two project for a longer period of time that the leadership development is something I love. And I cannot practice that skill. I cannot practice developing employees, building all star teams, you know, increasing their performance if I'm just bouncing from one thing to another. So my next project, I want to be for five or 10 years. 2 (42m 22s): Yeah. So I guess the, to bridge that gap, it's really just, well, one just get fucking started, right? Yeah. Action is the cure for everything. And then just experiment. So we get started in the experiment now just gets, just do it, just get started. Richard. Branson's like famous for that. Right. He brought a book, what was it called? Yeah. And you made, you had a hell of it. So you made your way to Necker Island. How the hell would that happen? 1 (42m 52s): The Richard Branson story. I told it too many times and I'm very happy to share it again. And Richard Branson is one of those people that are like, man, you've lived such an interesting life because we live in the most interesting life out of everybody that I've heard of. And I was really excited to meet him. So big picture. I was writing down my bucket list. I wanted to do things before that, that I have to do before I die. But wait earlier, I didn't want to postpone anything. I didn't want to wait until I'm like 50 years old because I cannot skydive with the crutches. 1 (43m 32s): Right. I also wanted to do the most of the things I know by the age of 40 and I was 19 years old. I was writing down all those things that I wanted to do. I want to experience. And during the time I was reading Richard Branson's biography, losing my virginity and I really loved he, his biography. I really loved what he's done. And I really love how he thinks hooky, how he acts. And he just, he was a big kind of role model for me. One of the things I've wrote one of the first five things I probably have that that piece of paper still is somewhere in my backpack where wherever he would kill it. So I wrote down, I want to kite surf with Richard Branson on Necker Island and I just put it away. 1 (44m 18s): And then at one point, and I was like, okay, let's see. And let's see what I can cross off. Let's see what are the things that I can kind of develop and see what happens. So I obviously remember that Kitesurfing with Richard Branson then they cry Island story was very specific and I was 19 years old. He was pretty naive. And the, at the same time I had the Spire in my eyes. I was like, I don't care. What, what has to happen? I, you know, I'll, I'm just going to, I'm just going to make it happen. Somebody has done it, I'll do it. And so in about maybe a year from, from the moment when they wrote that bucket list, item down, I had a virtual assistant, I've read the four hour workweek about leveraging virtual assistants and all that. 1 (45m 1s): So I hire, they have a virtual assistant and I ask her to give me a list of all places where Richard Branson and is going to be. And when was it? 2016, I think. And she did that. She, she gave me a spreadsheet with all the places or like a bunch of places where he was speaking and everything. So I want one by one to every event. And there was one events that I saw and that event was a private event. It shouldn't be listed anywhere. And it's for the extreme tech challenge for Kitesurfing entrepreneurs. And I'm a massive Kitesurfing, I'm just like, Holy shit, this is amazing. This can not be a real, and this was there, the finals of this extreme tech challenge. 1 (45m 44s): So a tens of thousands of companies apply startups apply to the challenge. And then at the end of the day, a at the end, we get three startups to pitch on Necker Island, to Richard Branson and to a bunch of other venture capitalists. So when I looked at the event page, I started thinking about the kinds of the angles as I'm going, as I'm going through it kinda as a, as a marketer, I'm saying, okay, well, how can we contribute? So I thought about cold reaching out, but then I, I, it keeps scrolling through the page. And I see, I see one person that I knew that was actually going to be on the judge panel. So there were like three or four judges and one of them is the venture capitalist, Tim Draper, maybe you happen to know him. 1 (46m 26s): So I went to Tim Draper's acceleration program just before, maybe seven months prior that, and I got to be in a pretty good relationship with him. You know, I flipped his canoe and his farm, you know, and got him all like wet and muddy with his other friend. And the, we were just like, we're just having a really good time. And team is just such an adventurous person as well. So I realized, okay, he's going to be a judge. This is a private event, a hundred people, you know, I got a hit him up and I gotta see if I can come, but hitting that person up and saying, Hey, can I go to meet Richard Branson is not something that I've seen works. And I thought about how can I make it an offer? 1 (47m 9s): He can not refuse. How can they be the most interesting thing for him? How can I deliver a value for him? So I thought, okay, what if I go on the Island and get to represent his acceleration program and bring my energy, kind of tell, you know, tell people about the cool projects that I've been working on as well. So I, I hit up Tim Draper and they say, Hey, I would love to come and represent, represent you and the, and the program. You know, this can be a good, a fantastic opportunity for you. And then I also dropped a couple of things that I did to kind of contribute to the program before, not necessarily to make them feel like, okay, now I have to return the favor. 1 (47m 50s): It was more like, Hey, I'm a good kind of person I want to, I want to make, you know, I want to contribute. That was kind of the intention. So he replies maybe same day or the day after cc's the, the organizer of the event. And he's like, Hey guys, I'm not sure if I can come, but we're not, should definitely come. Instead of me, I was like, Holy shit, this is a possible, so this is a billionaire, a venture capitalist, you know, just, you know, just referred me to, to go instead of him. And he's like a panelist or a judge of the event. So they help me up with the tickets. There is another story about how he got money to, to go through the thing, because it's a pretty expensive or just, you know, flight's and plus the ticket itself to go. 1 (48m 36s): So yeah, that's how I ended up there. But the, I think that what's more interesting is how I got to actually Keiser, you know, on, on Necker Island. So I fly out to a Virgin islands, a Virgin, all excited again. How old was I? Like probably 20 years old. Yeah. I was probably 20 years old at the time. I was thinking, okay, this is going to be awesome. I was working on that on an artificial intelligence startup, which I didn't know anything about artificial intelligence was complete, 5 (49m 5s): Complete bullshit. You know, he just 1 (49m 7s): Kool-Aid that he was drinking from the Silicon Valley and from, you know, from the person that I was working with. Yeah. But it's cool. You know, sometimes that Navy tech is awesome because we get to, you get to do things that nobody else gets to do. So before event, day on Necker, they send an email out and they say, okay, if you have, if you want of the finalists or if you have the VIP tickets and they're like against a very small amount, it's like a hundred people. Right. And all of them are, you know, hand-picked, if you have the VIP ticket show up at this spot, you know, at this time, if you have a regular ticket, which the one that I had, you should show up at this place at this time and they send them one email to everybody and I'm just like, you know what, fuck it. 1 (49m 53s): So I just showed up. I just showed up at a location for, for the VIP's. And I was just burrowing 5 (49m 59s): Up with, with everybody. I was, you 1 (50m 1s): Know, just talking, Kitesurfing talking, talking life, talking, start-ups this massive conversation. Then the person, the, one of the organizers, she also recognized me. She's like, Hey, you're not welcome. I was like, I was, I was feeling just on fire. I was feeling amazing. Then we go to the great house, which is a, which is the big house on, on the top. And the person comes to me and she is like, Hey, you, what? I realize that you actually did not have the right type of thing. And I do not belong. I'm like a 20 year old kid, you know, without, you know, without the multimillion dollar startup, like everybody else, you know, I just hustled my way in. 1 (50m 42s): I was like, fuck, they're going to, they're going to kick me out. It's not going to be fun. So I was thinking about the angle once again. Okay. What can I do? What can I do? And I thought, how about this? Oh, she said that the, the woman said, Hey, we're not, we can, we can just get you a boat out from the Island. And then, and then you can just come back later. And I thought, okay, how can I make it fun? How can I make it awesome. So, because it's a, Kitesurfing kite surfing community. And I said, I have my kite with me. How about this? I go to the beach. I go, kite surf. And then a few hours, I just come back and you don't have to worry about the belts. She's like, okay, sounds good. So I go to the beach and get my, get my kids out. 1 (51m 24s): And then I see Richard Branson out there, you know, with literally just preparing to go Kitesurfing he himself. And there was another, like a world champion and like in Kitesurfing as well. That was like, Holy shit, this is awesome. So Richard Branson walk, he walks over to me. I'm with my kite, about to do is set off. And yeah, I just, I just give it him, give him a hug and, you know, and that was a very short conversation with a couple of sentences and yeah, I go, Kitesurfing, Richard Brunson's takes off Kitesurfing we Kitesurfing next to each other. That's Kitesurfing on his, his background. He went back qualifies. 2 (52m 1s): Oh, that's such a beautiful part about this story. I mean, obviously it's great for her and Richard Branson and the fact that you wrote it down on a piece of paper for a year before, and then it, and it happened with the beautiful heart, is everything in between all the stuff that you get in between you didn't exactly reverse engineer, how you're going to get to Necker Island and, and like go Kitesurfing Richard Branson. But throughout the entire way, like you were mission oriented and you knew that this is something that you wanted to do and you just followed opportunities and serendipity along the way. And then just like hustle is just an incredible, I mean, that right there, that story just like aligns everything when it comes to entrepreneurship or like designing a life or whatever it might be. 2 (52m 51s): Right. It doesn't have to be a perfect way to get there, but you, you stumbled and fumbled quite a bit. And then finally, okay, I'm just going to do a Kitesurfing and then boom, there is a Richard Branson. 1 (53m 2s): Yeah. I think it just, it just practicing the value of courage of like, just going after what you want out of life and not putting excuses on hold now or, or just going, despite, despite the, you know, the excuses, the fears, I actually tattooed award courage, all of my best. I didn't even, I didn't even know that I would get it that to ever, you know, and then that word resonated with me so much that I realized I never want to forget it. You know, this is, this is one of the values that is so close to my heart that I want to, I want to go despite the fear. 1 (53m 46s): I want to take action despite the fear, but the interesting thing with, with Necker, with Necker Island story. So once you are in a community, once, you know, some people that said your you're a part of the thing. So I came back next year and then we wind up doing even much more fun experience. We rented a five catamarans and it was just amazing. It was just amazing. And then I got to actually meet Richard Branson once again. But during that second time, when I got to meet them, I didn't feel like actually had anything to say. I just like, okay, you know, it's like a, I, I've read all of your books. I know quite a bit about you. I don't have a specific question that I want to ask you. 1 (54m 26s): And I just fell at peace. No, I just felt that the kind of a piece, I just felt like I didn't need to meet anybody or do any, you know, of any particular thing anymore. And that was a cool moment. That was a cool moment. 'cause that was, I was probably 21 years old. I realized that that I don't need to meet anybody to feel successful or, you know, to accomplish anything. The only thing that I need to do is I need to apply the information that's out there in the world. And that I learned from that person, from the books that he deliberately put out so that people can learn from them. I just need to put those things in practice and that's it, you know, the best advice is already there. Right? 1 (55m 6s): Totally. And that was, that was a bigger, a bigger impact for me. That's awesome. So, so for you that, what's the next mission. What's the next line item that you're going after? That's a phenomenal question. I've tried a startup concept earlier. I don't think I'm going to pursue it any longer. I'm going to keep dabbling, keep experimenting, launching a new things. See kind of what resinates for the most part. And yeah, I guess, I guess we'll see. It's, it's, it's hard to say it's also difficult for my generation, for millennials to commit to one thing, because we are the group of people that has all the information in front of us has so many opportunities in front of us and choosing something makes you automatically say no to everything else. 1 (56m 3s): And it's so difficult right now that you have to commit to build a skill, to build a relationship, to say no to everybody else, to everything else and just say, Hey, this is the way I want to go for, for me, for me has been quite complicated and the most fulfilling things in life come from commitment, I believe. And that doesn't need to be a commitment, even for a lifetime. You can, you can just commit to project for a year, you know, or you can, you can commit to a person, you know, for, you know, for a period of time. And then you get to reevaluate. It's the, for example, in relationships and get to say, Hey, let's, let's try it out and let you know. Let's, let's see, let's see what happens. 1 (56m 43s): Let's see if we like each other, you know, it's like an experiment, right? And, and then, and then from there, you can, you can talk again and see what's up. But having, having a commitment automatically reduces your cognitive load because you no longer have to evaluate every decision it's already made for months or years to come. 0 (57m 2s): That makes so much sense. I've never like, heard it articulated that way, but I'm going to use that one for sure. So you're what se said. One of our missions was to transform education. Is that still something that you're focused on? 1 (57m 17s): Yes. I, I believe education is really important and I've been reading a lot about education and how people learn and how people act based on what they know. And that I realized that it's not access to information that is limiting people. It is people's culture and their belief systems by culture. If we look for example, at the initiative of bill Gates, buying a fuckload of laptops and bringing those to two African countries, the facts, we're not the best there. We're not the best that night. I believe that the scrap the initiative, they thought, okay, if this guys have access to computers, they will, all of a sudden transformed the entire continent. 1 (58m 2s): They didn't seem to put out the way the one of the two, the, the thing is people never had a culture for personal growth or development that he did not associate information with better livelihoods with more prosperity. And I believe changing culture is the most important thing that we can do because again, a person in a Messiah tribe in Kenya, they already have smartphones that cost 40 or $50. Many of them, they have internet. They might not even have places to charge the phone, but they have access to internet. And they, their, their creative ways to, to charge the phones as well. 1 (58m 43s): I think working with the local leaders and, and people who are respected in those countries and educating them on why education is something that can massively improve people's lives is, is probably way more important. So that was the earliest, the realization I had. And another thing is, so I started a company that focuses on that focused on digital education in Latin America. And we sold online courses and says, we have a lot of free material online. The thing is, most people did not put the knowledge to practice or not take action. 1 (59m 27s): And personal development information is consumed like Netflix, people binge watch it and nothing changes. They feel more accomplished. Oh, if I read the book, it's, it's an amazing thing. You know, people have this goals, read a hundred books or read one book a week and love to be read. The book is like, Holy shit. Yeah. I'm, I'm so cool. You know, I'm into personal development. I learned something new. Does nothing knowledge without application of knowledge is meaningless. Pointless. There is literally does nothing. And the other thing about personal development industry and what it does, it just says, here's a new thing. You learn in another thing, new video, a new webinar on a new, whatever. 1 (1h 0m 10s): A lot of people I know that are very successful. They love personal development, but they're super selective in terms of what they consume. And once they consume the information they put in practice, so they actually do not necessarily read as much of, you know, the, the personal development stuff. They're like a lot more strategic and they make sure that that information gets practiced. That's really good advice. If you get stuck in a hole, I find myself there a lot. That's why experimentation is a super awesome. So I have a few experiments that I want, I want to share with you that I've done. And maybe if you guys want, we can figure out some of the experiments that you guys can try out as well in your life and see, and see how that turns out. 1 (1h 0m 55s): So right now, and a week ago I bought a marathon ticket. I love committing also for my experiences where there's like, and then the date and I can not flake. So there is a very specific outcome I bought a week ago. I bought the marathon tickets and the marathon was three weeks from when I bought the tickets. So I have two more weeks to prepare for the marathon. Oh my gosh, I did that. I did the same thing a year ago. I had four weeks to prepare for the marathon as well. So, so yeah, I like, I like seeing, okay, can we do it? You know, and it's kind of impossible to fail in a lot of those things. It's like, if you put your best effort, it's not a failure. 1 (1h 1m 36s): It's a success in so many ways. So I did that. I lived around the world and saw which place I liked the most and how I feel in different places. When I was living in Kiev, I went to enacting school. So I did actors classes intensively for, for one month. And that was really cool. This was really awesome. And this is something I'd like to pursue in the future as well. I try the carnivore diet, eating only meat. It was brutal. This is the only thing is not recommended. This was the only experiment that I didn't pull through it. I did three weeks out of four. I'm just like, and my experiment actually. 1 (1h 2m 17s): So here's the important thing with my experiment. I tried to have an objective for carnivore diet. My objective was to see if I'm going to feel better eating only meat. I realized that the first week I realized that I'm not going to feel any better, but I feel like still doing the experiment may be something is going to change. So in the, in a way that was that like a successful experiment, but 30 days was no, that was a little too much. And that was in Argentina. I was eating great steaks. You start hating steaks at some point, I, that I had like five steaks a day. That sounds peaceful. It is, it has pretty famous. What's his name? Kayla Peterson, but that's, but that's the thing that was everyone's. 1 (1h 2m 59s): Biology is so specific. And like to say, one diet is going to hear an ailment is I think very misleading. So maybe it works for her, but it could also be because she was on only meat that she probably cut out a bunch of things that she shouldn't have been eating. So I wouldn't say it's necessarily like, cause of facts to a relationship with the meat, right. And the experiment, they experimented a lot of different types while she has a messed up microbiome to begin with my friends, they from Lifestyle Engineering community that also has done this. And this was really helpful. Essentially, you do this, you do this to kind of like renew your microbiome as well. And I think you can reduce other foods. It's one of the elimination diets with dieting. 1 (1h 3m 42s): I experiment experimented that quite a bit as well. I've tried to keep a genic diet. I've tried a pescatarian, vegetarian vegan, and I, again, the goal was to figure out what I'm going to feel the most energetic. So with, with nutrition, I'm kind of, I feel like a solid, I know, I know what is going to work for me. And one of the things we optimize in life is like, I want to feel the best before I wanted to have, you know, to collect experiences or, you know, to, to do, to acquire certain things or to build a billion dollar startup right now. Right now my, the thing that I am optimizing for it, like, I want to feel amazing. 1 (1h 4m 22s): Like I want to wake up thrilled, you know, I want to feel energetic. I never want to feel tired. And I mean, I'm 25 years old, but I still feel sometimes that like, okay, the, the, the age is age is showing that is truly unique glimpses of what mean, and that was a scary thing. That was a scary thing for me. Did you do the flow research collective stuff or with dads, right? Yeah. Have you done that? Yeah. Amazing. That's super cool. Yeah. I'm a very good friends with RI and yeah. That's how so KA Brandon and I took him about the same time or really the whole M what is it? 1 (1h 5m 3s): A zero to dangerous, right. The whole program. How was your experience? That was great. So for me, like, I, I started taking it last year and when they first started it, it was a fairly early last year. So 2 (1h 5m 18s): We found out she was pregnant and like me is like the, the, you know, the way I am is like, I'm like always like head forward on a bunch of like different projects or a loved one big project or something. But I optimize my time for that project. And I'm kind of a workaholic a little bit. I've always have been like, I just do a lot of work. And at the time too, we were traveling like crazy for our work. And we found out she was pregnant and I was like, Holy shit, I'm going to need to like, figure out how to focus 10 times better, how to optimize my schedule 10 times better, because how am I going to be able to put the time and energy I put into my work or whatever projects and working on when I know that I want to be a good father or wanting to be a good husband. 2 (1h 6m 2s): So like I searched for, and I follow a bunch of stuff on Instagram. And I saw that and I'm like, man, this is seems like it's a perfect option to maximize my schedule, to maximize the energy and the output that I have so that I took it. And it was great, like the positive psychology stuff, everything with the hedonic calendar and recovery and everything that was in there. I applied it. I used it and it was fantastic. We had our son in December and if I didn't develop the habits and routines that I did from that program, I think that we would have a very different experience. Cause my meditation was on point hydration. All of that stuff is on point throughout like being extremely sleep-deprived from a child. 2 (1h 6m 48s): And without I think like the sleep deprivation and the energy output that was going into trying to be a good husband, be a good father and everything. I was also able to do other things and do work. And I was able to maintain a good life when we have a state of balance in life. And I came out like, 1 (1h 7m 7s): And what is the most surprising thing that you got out of the program? What was that? The fact that you are sleep deprived or because a lot of the times score is systemically sleep deprived. We do not know. Okay. 2 (1h 7m 18s): And so I read a book called why we sleep way a while ago and that book opened my eyes up to sleep a lot and how I don't do it 1 (1h 7m 30s): For a while. 2 (1h 7m 31s): I got into a good habit, a good sleep up from the zero to dangerous program. The biggest thing, you know, the positive psychology stuff was incredible. I was already in a pretty good meditation program, but I would say the biggest thing was the recovery. And they focused a lot on recovery and recovery. Isn't something that you think about, right? Burnout is just a part of life. Entrepreneur is you're going to eventually feel like garbage. 1 (1h 7m 54s): Do you have a recovery protocol? I 2 (1h 7m 56s): Do. Yeah. I do a lot of mobility exercises and you know, working out and I wish my weekends, I needed develop a more, he bought a calender, but yeah, I'm pretty good at, you know, I'll leave her and the baby for like two hours on the weekends, Saturday and Sunday, and do a 45 minute like yoga. And He like a good mobility stretch. And then a 45 minute meditation, that's kind of like my weekend, like a weekend recharge. And then as far as like daily recovery, man, I got good at it and then bad at it and then good at it and the bed. And then the recovery is one of those things where you, the routine is that you really kick in and it's taken us or his son's 10 months old now. 2 (1h 8m 39s): And it's a, it's an ebb and flow of figuring out schedules and routines. But I think you're starting to get in a good rhythm and that one's like, you know, obviously family is for us and we want to make sure that we're doing a really good job for him priority one. And we do focus on ourselves. We focus on the independent stuff and everything like that, but it just, it's hot. We know, work those things into the calendar and they do their work out and we've been able to engineer a pretty cool life right now. And I think the recovery protocols are there. You know, I think that could be better. Or you both 1 (1h 9m 19s): Following the way the program 2 (1h 9m 21s): Or she heard me talk about it basically took the program. 1 (1h 9m 27s): I wonder how you guys sync your, your time together and uncertainty as well, that comes from having, having a child. How do you guys coordinate for sure. 2 (1h 9m 36s): Or schedules where you get to get the most out of life together? Oh man, that's a good question. We talk all the time. We work from home, both of us. So we're constantly talking and communicating and checking in, checking in and saying, okay, like reviewing our, our schedules, like on Friday's we'll sit down and look at our schedule for the following week. And then in the morning, first thing, talking about our schedules and, and we have like a very open line of communication to where like, no one takes anything personal. So like I'm straight told him before, like if you ever think like I'm slacking as a mom are being a bad mom and say like, you're being a bad mom. And like, it goes the same with like, you know, husband and wife duties. So like, don't, we, neither of us is afraid to call the other personality if he likes. 2 (1h 10m 19s): So he has ADHD and some, and he doesn't take medication. Like he, he, he meditates us, right? Like for as a main form of dealing with it. But sometimes when his meditation is off, he tends to not be as present. So I'll tell him all the time, I'd be like, Hey, I need you to like, focus. Like this is bothering me. This is a part where I feel like you could step it up. And instead of like getting defensive, He, you know, take steps to improve in those areas. So I think that's also really important when it comes to a relationship is being able to have that brutal honesty so that you can, you know, be the best version of yourself or your family. Yeah. 1 (1h 10m 53s): Yeah. I love what you mentioned communication. And I think open communication comes from creating a space that is safe 2 (1h 10m 60s): For people to express themselves. And that takes quite a bit of work, right? 1 (1h 11m 6s): I'm not an expert on relationships by, by any means. But I recently had challenges where I feel like the other person was communicating. What's going through her mind and you know, how she feels about things. And we'll talk about doing things together. We'll discuss just general topics, but because I didn't know how her mechanisms, how her algorithm works. I just get the output, you know, then I really had a tough time connecting. No, that makes a ton of sense. And that for us, it was just a lot of trial and error. And I think he brought to light where a lot of people that maybe can't have that communication or a why some people might not be as honest as you would like them to be in a relationship because he was like, well, if you want me to be honest, like, I can't tell you something. 1 (1h 11m 55s): And then you freak out and start yelling at me. That is then I'm going to want to avoid that situation. You know, I'm not going to express something that I know is going to make you angry, cause a fight and not be productive in the end. And I was like, Oh shit, okay. So I have to take accountability here too. So I'm allowed to obviously have whatever feelings and reactions if he does something wrong, but I have to express that in a healthy way. So for every time he does something wrong, I yell at him, I'd be a little him and I make it all about him and he's not going to come to me with any issues. So it's really allowing him to mess up and then him allowing me to mess up. And then how do we fix that? So in friendships, in particular, one, I really strongly believe in and educating people how you want to be treated because people are going to treat you the way they think, you know, that you want to be treated, which, and or that you'll be exact. 1 (1h 12m 52s): So I'm wondering if you guys, if you guys take any steps to educate each other, I guess you've been in a relationship for a while and you know, how, how you work, but what steps did you guys take before? Or what's the, what steps are you taking right now in order to, in order to get clarity as for, Hey, you know, when I work, for example, I don't want to be touched, you know, when you see the headphones, not a don't talk to me is one of those things that I train my friends that, you know, this is like a small thing, but it improves in brews relationships, massive massively, because there are no, no annoying factors. And, you know, people get to respect my way of being. 1 (1h 13m 32s): Do you guys have your ways? I don't think we have a full blown, but I will say that it's about being mindful, right? Like if something makes me feel a particular way, like when I'm working or something, and I need like a 90 minute gap where I can't be talked to, or like, I need that box to focus or something, and that box is getting like interrupted. You could be mindful enough to have the conversation saying, well, this isn't working for me. And then we'll talk about, well, what will work and then go from there. Right. But I don't know if I have any, it's not like we have any steps to take right now. I think it's mindfulness, it's mindfulness. And again, it just goes back to communication. So it's like not being scared to say like, Hey, I'm in a bad mood. And I just like, need an hour. 0 (1h 14m 13s): You know what I mean? Like you take the baby and I'm just gonna like go stretch and go for a walk or take a bath. So it's like, I need to feel like I can express whatever my needs are. And him not be like, Oh, well I'm busy too. And I have a list of things I want to do when you, why do you get an hour? And I don't get an hour. So I think that's also important not to like compare scores, right? So like there might be a week or maybe he needs more time to himself. Then I do write. And like, it doesn't mean that in the next week I get more time if I don't need it, it's just it's he needs what he needs and I'm going to try my best to give it to him and I need what I need and he has to do his best to give it to me. And it's not like keeping score. I think that's also really important, but just like being able to say what you need and then your partner to, to step up when they need step up 1 (1h 14m 60s): Acting from the place of love for the other person and yeah. 0 (1h 15m 3s): And yourself as well. Exactly. Yeah. That's exactly it. And it's just knowing that you're each having a human experience of figuring it out and luckily you get to figure it out together. And then that's where it comes into like designing that experience. Right. But that's kind of where we're at now. We were in a really cool spot. Like we're really enjoying life and all that kind of stuff. But now the next step is design our 10 year. 6 (1h 15m 28s): Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Le let's do it. 1 (1h 15m 30s): I really want us to try out building an experiment for you guys and see, is there any learnings that we can get out of that maybe is there an area of life 0 (1h 15m 40s): You'd like to improve or you'd like to optimize? Oh man, she has a problem with that. All of that is optimizing and improving every year. Man. I wish I would say more travel, but like with COVID is kind of like, that is not possible right now. 1 (1h 15m 55s): Well, a travel can be broken down. Like travel is probably like more feeling adventurous or 0 (1h 16m 1s): More new things, new experiences. Right. 1 (1h 16m 4s): So if you want, we can, we can look into, into travel because travel, 0 (1h 16m 7s): It was just one outlet of getting the feeling. Okay. Yeah. That's interesting. We traveled all week. We were gone. It does an 18 and we're traveling every month, every month. And then he kind of came to a halt, you get pregnant. And then now it's like, okay. But I think that living life without the, we can't mentality because we have a good like your parents, right? Yeah. We traveled everywhere. Right. Uncertainty doesn't matter what is going to do. And so to live life, without those boundaries that are most people, all that kind of construct with themselves, I think would be really fun. 1 (1h 16m 43s): Well, it seems like you guys are already doing it, which is that, which is beautiful. Yeah. Traveling with kids. I think so on, on my podcast I interviewed an entrepreneur. He is, 0 (1h 16m 51s): He started seven, nine figure businesses. And what he, what he did is he took his kids to travel with him and their homeschool or their school digitally. And they were just experiencing life. Living living in, in Europe, living in Barcelona, Living all over the place. And 1 (1h 17m 10s): There is always a way to do something. And then he found that way. And it's not, it's not necessarily super sophisticated. We can look up on the internet, like how other people do with kids in particular. I think nobody should look at having children as something that limits that expression of what they want to do with their lives, because there's, there's a certain way. And what my parents did with me, that just turned me into a better person, I believe. And I probably will be somewhere in Russia right now that they didn't do it. Yeah. That's awesome. And I totally agree. I think there's like the way that you got to Necker Island, right. And there is, there is a vision of the way that we travel on how we travel when we go and why we do it. 1 (1h 17m 54s): And there is where we are now. And I think there was a creative kind of mission forward way that we can create it. We just gotta develop that clarity. I think that's where we're at right now is I really like communicating and developing a clarity of exactly what, what that is. So a travel I it feels like you guys, you guys already love doing travel. So doing an experiment in travel is not something that, you know, that's is going to bring you necessarily new insights. Maybe, maybe Engineering or building, building a plan to get more travel. That can be something that is, is there anything that you guys would like to learn more about yourselves or I guess discover 0 (1h 18m 36s): So something. So I guess we're trying to find like maybe like weak points essentially, right? Like those were like the best experiments 1 (1h 18m 44s): We have to be the weak points that there should be just things that maybe you've been putting off for awhile, or maybe the things that are your big, desire's the goals that you've created for yourself, but you've never taken steps to, you know, to see, to see if, if you actually like it or if you never taking the first steps. And if you, if you believe that you really want this out of life, this could be like really fun experiments. 0 (1h 19m 7s): So for me, meditation is something that I know I should be doing. And I'm very, very inconsistent. Like, I'll go on a streak where I'll go, like, you know, a weak in a row, like a seven days in a row. And I meditate and then I won't meditate for another six months. So for me, like, I would love to have a consistent meditation practice. Like every single day do something. I just always make an excuse as to why that doesn't happen. So that's one, another one that I've wanted to do, like going back to like diet, like I've always wanted to try the blood type diet. Cause that's, to me that's so interesting, like the theory behind it, but again, it's, I've been avoiding. Oh yeah, it sucks because, so we both have the Lakewood's considered the newest blood type, which means that you're kind of like the weakest when it comes to your immune system and like what you can kind of handle. 0 (1h 19m 54s): So it's the most of the limited diet. So I'm like, Oh, I also don't want to get rid of all of the meats 'cause that would suck to me. Like, I don't want to just eat fish and tofu, like that's boring, but to do we want to see it and just like, see if I feel better. So like that and meditation, cause I just want to feel more energized with things since having the baby, I'm just like constantly tired. So I'm like fluctuating between like under caffeinated and over-caffeinated and I just want to be, I like an energetic level without a stimulus. So that would be a goal. 1 (1h 20m 24s): Those are the fun experiments. I've done an experiment with 30 days of YouTube. Essentially. I would create one YouTube video a day and they've tried a version of it where I will do 15 videos in 30 days, the 15 videos in 30 days, it was an experiment that failed. I did like for, and we need to do them like every other day or I need, you know, I get to do them or whatever. And just be like in the 30 days of it has to happen for me. There wasn't there wasn't this practice where I needed to do something by the end of the day. And when I did the one video a day experiment, that was amazing. Ah, that was amazing because there was a, there was this consistency discipline kind of new habits. 1 (1h 21m 6s): And there were moments when he was 2:00 AM and I still didn't have a video and they couldn't go to sleep. So I had to pull up my camera and I was like, fuck, what topic do I know really well about it? But then you don't need to research of four. And that was an experiment then, then that was a skill that I acquired through through the experiment. So Candice maybe, would you like to, would you like to try the diet experiment or the meditation experience for 30 days? 0 (1h 21m 31s): Ooh. Which one should I do, but I'll let you pick meditation. Yeah. Okay. Well let's do the meditation. I'm already so nervous. 1 (1h 21m 40s): Stellar. Hell yeah. Do you guys have at a time that you want to meditate? 0 (1h 21m 45s): We would say a minimum of 10 minutes for me. So I have an app that I really like again, I've only used it like maybe 10 times or 12 times. Cause again, like consistency is my, my flaw. It's the waking up app with Sam Harris and it's like the best one I've ever used, but you have to pay for it. But anyone who's looking for a great app, like that's what I recommend a love that 30 day challenge, 10 minutes, at least 10 minutes. Is there like a certain time we're supposed to have to be done like before a certain time of the day? Or like as long as it's done before bed, 1 (1h 22m 18s): What usually works the best is putting it on your schedule or putting it within your routine that you do anyways? What I like doing as well as I like writing, creating like 30 boxes that I check off 'cause that makes it very visual or something. Something that works really well. It's a very easy experiment to do. Right. It's super easy, super straightforward. You have the app in designing experiments that that work having clarity is probably the most important thing. So if you know which app you're going to be using, I'm not sure how is the Sam Harris has an app looks like, because if there is like one same meditation, you might get bored and then you might not look forward to doing that. 1 (1h 22m 60s): So I'll make sure that there's an introductory course that you can do the 28 day introductory course, eight 30 every morning. Okay. So is that easy, but you guys can have an accountability as well. Let's see how many people could do that with us. Yeah. And our social. Yeah. And I'll check it. And I honestly think like anyone who does this, even if it's just us, I think were in a boat to be a lot happier for it. Yeah. He needs something that clear that chaos in my head. But yeah. Before we take off Renat do you want to tell everyone where they can find you and I'm like your social is your website, anything you're working on. 1 (1h 23m 41s): Absolutely. The guys, I had an amazing time with you. Thank you so much. Yeah, of course, absolutely loved a fun experiment. I'm really excited for you guys also to try something, something new. And hopefully once you try this meditation experience or you get to try other experiments on your life and see what we can learn from yourself and see how you can improve your life proactively. But as you said that the commitment though, right? Like don't flake it. Right. And just commit 30 days. Yeah. And, and that's the beautiful thing about doing experiments. When do you have 30 bays? And that creates kind of a boundary, all you can do is you can hate 30 days, that's it? 1 (1h 24m 23s): You know, if you, if you don't like it, just keep doing it. You will, you will hate 30 days and you will, you'll save by the end of the experiment. I did not like it. This is not something for me because a lot of the times in the beginning you have to break through a wall in order to start seeing the positive results and people, oftentimes that's where they give up about information on what I'm working on. You can check out Lifestyle doc Engineering, I'm working on a book right now. We have a podcast episode with Candice as well. You can, you can check it out fun and yeah. Feel free to drop me an firstname.lastname@example.org deliberately off social media. 1 (1h 25m 5s): I got to do that. All of the school email. Yeah. And like, yeah, this has been awesome. Great, super interesting conversation. Yeah. Great conversation. I work with so grateful to have you for the air and a half that we had an awesome staff. I feel the same way. Thank you guys. 0 (1h 25m 22s): Alright. Have a good one. That's it for this week's episode. I hope you enjoyed it. If you have the time please rate and review and you can always hit subscribe to stay up to date with our latest episodes. I hope to have you back.