Josh Denny is a comedian and former host of “Ginormous Food”. In this episode, we chat about what got him cancelled (again), being pro-choice or pro-life, the vaccine mandate, and the story behind his debacle with The Food Network.
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0 (0s): You know, I, I think it takes a lot of guts to, to step out from what you're used to and express yourself in a new way. But I, you know, for the people that do take that risk, man, those are the people that I like to fuck with. Like, those are the people that excite me and that I, I like to talk to and interact with and get to know better because I think, you know, there's, like I said on Twitter, like if you're a comedian who has never said something offensive or controversial and you've never had to stand behind it, I just don't have any respect for you. 1 (34s): Hello, everybody at your listening to Chatting with Candice, I'm your host, Candice. Horbacz back before we get started on this week's episode, I wanted to give a shout out to a few locals members. So I wanted to first say thank you to Joe G and naughty. Thank you so much for contributing to the community at locals. Thank you so much to do drop and to Jeremiah and B. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. This week we have Josh Denny joining the podcast. Josh Denny is a comedian and like most good comedians. He's in a little bit of trouble. So we're going to talk about what he did to, to get canceled this week, enjoy the episode. So you've been a busy bee 0 (1m 16s): A little bit. 1 (1m 17s): So I definitely, I wanted, I wanted to have you on the podcast even after you had me on yours. Cause I just had a really good time talking with you. And then all of a sudden, I couldn't stop seeing you on my Twitter feed. How's that going? 0 (1m 33s): It's going well, actually I think, you know, I've had anybody who's sort of followed me on social media over the years, knows that I am not, it's not new for me to be a controversial person in terms of like the things I joke about or the opinions that I have. And I've had, I've had some stuff blow up in the past where it's sort of blown up and you know, who you're characterized as it gets drastically misrepresented. And I will say that even though this one is very volatile and very unpopular for some people it's, it's always better when you're trending for standing up for something you really believe in. 0 (2m 15s): And you know, this is not a situation where I'm being misrepresented. Like if you look at all of the press surrounding everything that's happened, it all is. Everybody is pretty clear that my position is, is the one that I really feel, you know, my position is that I'm I'm anti-abortion and that I think, you know, we have to take a very hard look at, you know, how those laws, how the laws we have in this country sort of surround that topic and you know this. So, so a lot of times when you sort of go through these cancellation moments, you're often misrepresented and this is probably the first time it's happened where it's like, yeah, th th they don't like it, but they're not saying something that isn't true, right? 1 (2m 58s): They're not, 0 (2m 60s): You I'm trying to find the tree. I thought, I mean, first of all, I think it's important that people remember that you're a comedian, right? I feel like that gets lost so quickly. And I think where everyone started losing their minds was because, I mean, it was a fucking joke and it was like a spicy joke. Oh, where is it? I essentially said, well, I was kind of railing against all of the objection towards the heartbeat bill that was passed in Texas. And I said, and knowing that everybody would just go everyone's argument is, is it's. So there are so many circumstances where people don't know at six weeks. And so my, my sort of flippant comment was spare me. 0 (3m 41s): The nobody knows it's six weeks. And then I was like horse only horse don't know it's six weeks, which obviously I know is which obviously is not like a medical position. It's just me being flamboyant. It's me being, you know, it's me being a shithead and, and making a point, you, you know, being hyperbolic and extreme much as what, you know, comedians sort of make their bones on exaggeration, right? You, you take, you take a position or you take a view when it comes to a certain subject and then you go to extreme lengths to sort of make your point. And so, but I always think it's funny when people try to take something like that, that's sort of incendiary and then assign it to you. 0 (4m 21s): Like, that's your position? Or that's your point of view versus no, that's an extreme thing. I said to make my point, you know what I mean? 1 (4m 30s): Yeah. People were like, he doesn't understand biology it's this, that and the other. And I was I've particularly found it funny because I found out that I was pregnant at six weeks and by default my career. Right. So it's like, but a bump, but obviously I was out of mainstream and not with anybody else. It's not that. But I was like, I don't know, I get it. But it is a joke. Right. So everyone was tagging and they were like, see what he said? Cause we just did our episode. And I was like, it's fine. He's a fucking comedian. And I, we just had our conversation of, I like my comedy to be a little bit off the rails, otherwise what are, what do you want to see? 1 (5m 11s): Right. Just a boring dialogue at that point. 0 (5m 14s): Yeah. And you know, and, and then it's, it's interesting because you know, when, when the, the people that, and this became very evident very quickly, but the people that think differently from me, there is absolutely no restrictions put upon them for the language or the drastic exaggerations they're allowed to make in dragging me for my opinion. And so it's just so interesting to me that when you have a more conservative viewpoint, there's sort of this expectation that you do battle like a red coat in the revolutionary war that I'm supposed to stand up in single formation and fire, fire our rounds in a very gentlemanly way and that we're supposed to play nice. 0 (5m 54s): And I have a difference of opinion. I think, I think part of conservative's problem is that they spend too much time trying to make educational sort of intellectual arguments when sometimes the people who think differently from you just need to be ridiculed the same way that you are ridiculed for what you believe. And so, yeah. It's but it's so interesting that people try to take something like that. That's clearly like I'm being flippant for, for a reason and say, oh, that's your actual opinion? Like, of course I'm aware there are circumstances where women don't know. I, I, when I was in high school or right out, out of high school, one of my best friends that I worked with wife and, and it's kind of funny because like, we all fought, she was pregnant because she looked pregnant, but you never tell a woman that she's pregnant before she tells you she's pregnant. 0 (6m 47s): And she wasn't like heavy. She was like round, like she was thin. And then her belly was round and from like, she was pregnant. And so a few of us even asked him, we're like, Nick, is she pregnant? He's like, no, I don't think so. And then she had a baby and she had had her period all the way through and, you know, and so like, which we were a little skeptical about because she did come from a very religious family and they, you know, they weren't married. They had only been dating for a little while, but anyway, you know, so I have from like, from the time I was 19, I'm fully aware that there are all these extenuate, hymns and extenuating circumstances. 0 (7m 30s): But my moral position is that I think we have an over abundance of preventable abortion in this country. And I think we need to take a look like one of my favorite things is when people always harken back to that famous bill Clinton speech, where he said, you know, he thinks that abortion in this country should be safe, legal, and rare. But I think the data shows that the only way for it to be safe and rare is probably for it to be illegal beyond a certain point. And so, you know, I think, I think Texas took a look at it and who's to say that six weeks is the definitively right number. I think the reality is, and what it, what it comes down to is when you ask somebody, what is the right number? 0 (8m 9s): Most women have a very pro-abortion stance will eventually get backed into a corner and say, whenever the fuck I say it is, well, that's not a way we can't really make laws that way. Do you know what I mean? Like, you can't really say it would be sort of like, when is it okay to kill someone in self-defense and you said, whenever I say it is, well, the court doesn't work that way and our laws don't work that way. 1 (8m 32s): No, that's a really good point. I think it's really interesting when people get in, I get, I guess, feel drawn to voicing certain opinions because I don't know if you agree, but I feel like certain arguments are just never going to be one. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like there's probably a small amount of people that are in the middle and they're like, I don't really know how I feel about it. Maybe I don't have enough information. I'm just ignorant to this conversation. So I'm going to pull myself out and then you have people that have kind of made their decision based off of the evidence. And I don't feel like they're going to move. 0 (9m 9s): Yeah. I mean, listen, I don't, I didn't assert to position to try to convert anybody. I just felt like it was something I wanted to make my position clear about. And you know, I've always attacked. It. It's a ma there's two things that people assumed when I took this hard stance is number one, they assumed it was a religious position, which it's not, but my approach to it as much more legal in the sense of it's all, it's the only kind of elective ending of a life that we allow in our laws. You know? And so there's no other circumstance where we allow someone to electively stop a life with their own discretion, right? And there are many, many states where it's not even legal for somebody to make the decision to end their own life, which I actually disagree with. 0 (9m 54s): I think if somebody has terminal cancer, something like that, and they make the decision to want to end their own life. I think they have the right to do that, but there's no circumstance in, in America where anyone has the ability to make the determination to end someone else's life other than this. And so I think just from a cultural values perspective, and from a legal perspective, it's, it's interesting that we make this allowance and we have this inconsistency in the way we apply law. And the way we apply, you know, people's ability to have agency over themselves or other people. And that's always the debate. People go, well, this is an agency over a person. Cause I don't think it's a person. 0 (10m 34s): Well, then we fundamentally disagree. There's no common ground there because it's like the one thing that is undebatable, and this is why I kind of get away from the it, when is it a baby? When is it a person? What is it a thing it's like, okay. The UN the indisputable asset aspect of it is that you are taking measures to end a life. And I just think that that is inconsistent with the way we apply law in this country and the way that we protect people's individual rights. And, and I view that new life as an individual and an individual deserving of the same freedoms, liberties, and protections that everyone else is granted and that every other law in our society tries to protect for people. 0 (11m 16s): And so the other thing is just from a pragmatic perspective of how many, you know, couples out there can't conceive, how many same-sex couples out there biologically can conceive. I mean, we have so many people in this country that want children. It's like, why are we getting rid of the inventory? You know? And, and, and the data shows, and the data shows that most of the time, when you make these kinds of laws, that people just take better precautions. And they just use the technology that we have to prevent an unwanted or unplanned pregnancy. And so going back to what I said, I think for it to be safe and rare, I think we have to take a look at it. Can't be legal for it to be safe and rare. 0 (11m 56s): And certainly there, there are exceptions where I think obviously we'd have to make a, an exception, right? If, if a woman's life is in danger, then I think that's, that's a decision that her and her physician have to be able to make without the F the threat of persecution of the law. And, and we make exceptions for laws all the time, right? It's illegal to drive under the influence of alcohol, but imagine you're a woman who's fleeing a rape, and you're on your way to the police to report, you get pulled over and you're intoxicated. They're not going to give you a DUI under those circumstances, right? You might have an asshole cop that tries to, but the reality is, is if you were fleeing for your life or your safety, and you were under the influence, generally you will not be given or, or, or DUI would not be upheld in a courtroom. 0 (12m 42s): And so, you know, I think for me, it's more of a legal question of, you know, are we going to be consistent in giving people the opportunity to have life, Liberty and pursuit of happiness, or are we not? And I understand if somebody is opposed to me, like I did my friend, Cory Adams podcast yesterday, and he said, not only do I think we can, we should be able to decide it for the unborn or for young babies. We should be doing it throughout our society. So if elderly people aren't contributing, we should take a look at whacking them. And if mentally disabled people are, are not contributing to society, maybe we should look at cleansing them. And I was like, okay, at least your line of thinking is consistent. I don't agree with it, but, you know, but, and we're also two wild comedians who are sharing these ideas from completely different viewpoints. 0 (13m 32s): And so, you know, for me, a lot of what I think makes comedians good, is being willing to explore other ideas. I wasn't always a pro-life person. I was a very pro-choice person. And I, I, there's a, if you go back and look at the daily wire article that I did or not did, but the interview that I gave last week, they linked the podcast where I talk with conservative comedian, Adam Yens, or, and you can hear him kind of swing me on my stance in the podcast. And we talked for hours afterwards and I said, man, you know what? You're, you're not wrong. You're not wrong at the way you look at this. And if you consider this an individual life, that's deserving of protections granted by our, our, our American promise and things like the declaration of independence and the bill of rights, the constitution. 0 (14m 15s): So, you know, I coming to that position for me was a journey. It wasn't something that I sort of did blindly. And, and I think the problem we have with a lot of things in society is we sort of excuse away our sociopathy. We sort of say, well, it's technology. That's why we don't have to be nice to each other. And it's, you know, it's this, and that's why we don't have to be considered of each other. And I think sometimes we just, we allow ourselves to do the wrong thing because there are so many excuses for why it's easy. And we never question, is this really the right thing to do? 1 (14m 49s): Yeah. There's a, there's a lot there. Right. So I I'm similar in the sense that I, my views on the subject are always evolving as I'm presented with more information, I feel like I'm somewhat in the ignorant bucket when it comes to, if you were to keep whittling it down. Why I think that what I think, right, it starts to the bottom starts to fall out a little bit. And where I, where I have been was pro-choice and within limits, not to the full extent that some states have it. Cause I think that's absolutely wild. 0 (15m 33s): They can 1 (15m 33s): Be crowning and they're like, I don't want it. You mean? 0 (15m 37s): Yeah. Bash it in the head. I know it's coming out, but bash it. I changed my mind, 1 (15m 41s): Like fucking crazy. And that does happen. Yeah. 0 (15m 44s): And there are people that take a very, like, they're like, that should be okay too. And it's like, Yeah. And I, and I think to be honest, if I'm being very honest, Candice I've, maybe it's because I live in Los Angeles, but I've met so many people that think like that. And those people discussed me and their selfish behavior in so many other ways that I, I think that's part of what pushed me to the other side of like, these are horrible fucking people that have all sorts of justifications to put themselves before others. And so, you know, if, if not agreeing with that view puts me on the other side of the table from those people, boy, am I glad to be on that side of the table? You know what I mean? 1 (16m 25s): For sure. I don't really know what that's about. I've pressed some people and some people come actually come down to like a spiritual argument where they are their take on it is they don't think that the soul enters the body until the first breath. So they think it's essentially just this, this vessel, that's an occupied at the moment. Right? So that's their spiritual take. And then you have other people that have more of a pragmatic take and they're like, all of a sudden circumstances happen and they can't take care of that baby. But like, I don't know what states, this is legal. And I know North Carolina, there's two weeks. You have two weeks that you can give the baby anywhere to a fire department, a police department, a hospital, and they'll take it. 1 (17m 8s): No questions asked. Right. So if you're already, if you're already that far, I just, I don't understand that. And I don't think I ever will, because to me that's horrifying, but when you break it down to, okay, well, if we all can somehow agree that late term is not okay, unless maybe the mom's about to die. I don't know. I feel like even as a mom, I would take that risk. But again, you know, you don't know until you're in the situation, but I feel like that late, if it, the mom's about to die, she has the right to make her decision. But anything earlier, it's like, we, how do we keep bringing this back? So where do you establish, what is life or what is intelligent life? Cause that seems to be what a lot of people going after. 1 (17m 50s): So, 0 (17m 52s): Well, I, I, and again, to be consistent across society, what is intelligent life? Because a person with down syndrome, someone would argue that's not intelligent life. So does that, does that person never have value? And so, you know, I think when, when we talk about morality, it's certainly somebody could say, no, I don't think of her as with down syndrome who can't work a job or hold a real relationship or participate in society the way a regular person could. I don't agree with that, but at least that would be maybe a consistent, that would at least be a consistent line of logic for that 1 (18m 26s): And human life. When, when do you consider human life? 0 (18m 31s): Right. So will be in to be intelligent. Yeah. 1 (18m 34s): I guess that's what I was trying to specify. Right. So we, in order to create legislation and let's say, unless, you know, some people are totally anti, right? Like they believe at conception and that's, that's their stance. And the way that I look at it, it's like we in surprisingly, my, one of my bigger shifts happened after I listened to that Kanye episode on Joe Rogan. And he said some fucking shit on the episode that was just mind blowing. I'm like, I don't think that guy gets enough credit, but he was saying it. And he's obviously a very religious man and pro-life, but he, the way that he supports choice was we live in this imperfect world and there are less than ideal circumstances. 1 (19m 22s): So that choice needs to be there to a point. But rather than I guess, abolishing it all together, let's start creating a world where women aren't even having to think about doing that, right. Like it could exist and let's somehow figure out how to tackle the problem instead of the symptom. And I was like, whoa, that's really wise. That's really wise. Cause I always thought the way to go at it at it would be directly to impact the legislation. And like, no, you have to get to the hearts and the minds of these people and fix the issue. Why are they making that decision? Or why do they feel like they have to make that decision and making their environment safer for them and safer for the child that they should want to bring into the world, getting pregnant should be a pleasant experience. 1 (20m 7s): So why is it not for these individuals then attacking it that way? 0 (20m 11s): Yeah. I don't disagree with that. I think that's a very, I think that's, I, listen, I think too often we have a tendency to look at an issue and not think what is the greater cause. Like a great example would be immigration, right? I don't think enough Americans on either side of the immigration debate, look at that and say, why do people want to leave Mexico so badly? And if you watch some really good documentaries, I watched this one that I love called narco Kaltura, which essentially walks you through what it's like to be a citizen of Mexico in this drug war right now. You know, it, it outlines what a horrific experience it is. Be a Mexican person, especially a Mexican person with children. Who's just trying to live a day-to-day life and, and take care of their family in the midst of this insane drug war. 0 (20m 56s): And you, it, it does give you a little bit of sympathy and empathy towards people that want that, that are willing to break American laws to try to, you know, give their chances, their children, a better chance at survival and happiness and, and, you know, just living at some point. So that's a situation where you look at it and go, man, you know, could The, could the solution to immigration in this country be to legalize drugs? You know? And, and so I think, you know, there are some things you can look at and say, if we legalize drugs in this country and basically rendered that problem, I financially desperate one for the Mexican drug cartels or at least one that they did not have to have this sort of fire and brimstone command over their neighbors and people in Mexico to conduct their business, you know, could we revolutionize what it means to be a Mexican citizen and essentially extend them some of the same principles of what it is to be American life, Liberty pursuit of happiness, Freedom just through the way that we alter our laws to make the functioning world around us better and safer. 0 (22m 6s): And then of course, I'm, you know, I'm pro legalization of drugs for a lot of other reasons. I, I just think again, it's, somebody's body, it's their choice and they're allowed to put whatever they want into it. You know? And like I said, I, I am all, this is what's so funny about the way this argument was brought up is people go, well, you know, you just had two people that are in sex, work on your podcast. Now you want to control a woman's body. And it's like, no, no, no, no. I think I am all about whatever liberation anybody wants to pursue in terms of their individual freedoms. You know, I want women to have as much sexual freedom as they desire. And I think we should have a free birth control, free contraception. I think those are elements of free healthcare that can contribute to a better society. 0 (22m 48s): And so I'm all for it. Like, I, I think you should be able to walk into a Walgreens and scoop up some birth control or some plan B or some condoms right there at the counter, like a, give a penny, take a penny. Right. I think, I think if we believe that we should have some responsibility in controlling our population, that is a worthwhile investment. And my goal is I think we should be in a position where we're preventing unwanted pregnancy. And so to go back to the Kanye thing that you brought up, there's probably different opinions on how to change that. Right. And I would argue that changing the law to be more restrictive might be the first step we have to take in creating a world where women are more thoughtful about wanting to bring a child into the world or not. 0 (23m 32s): It's sort of like chicken and egg, right. Do we have this sort of disregarding view on abortion in this country because it's legal and because we've said it's okay for so long, is that why there are so many people we just talked about who are like, I don't give a shit if it's nine months, it's my choice. It's like, well, that's a totally inhumane approach that I don't think most reasonable people would take, but that approach exists period, because we've lived in a world where it has been legal. And in many cases by the mainstream media and the left, it has been applauded. And there are women on Twitter with t-shirts on saying I've had 21 abortions. I mean, 1 (24m 8s): That's crazy that that's not something to brag about because I do I, and this is the interesting thing too. And again, like for me personally, there's no circumstance that I would, I would get one just period. Like that's my choice. Right. I, I personally for me would not, wouldn't get one because I do believe that that potential to grow into a human being. I think there's something very special about that. And I wouldn't want to interfere with that. You know what I mean? 0 (24m 40s): Yeah. And I, and I, and I think there's a, there's a word you used in there that is very, it's very special to me when you say potential. And I, and to me, one of the, the way we never have the conversation is who is anyone to decide when another person stops having potential. And so the, The, and those are often the circumstances of like, well, I don't have the money to take care of a kid, or I'm not ready to take care of a kid, by the way, those are the two most listed reasons why women get abortions when they are pulled. I'm not ready financially. I'm not ready socially. And from a, from like a social maturity level. And, you know, when we talk about adoption as a great opportunity, it's like that child has potential until it doesn't have the potential to live or the, the opportunity to be alive in to pursue potential. 0 (25m 34s): And so I think that really, to me becomes the greater moral question is who is anyone to decide when a life stops having potential? And should we have laws that protect every human's potential? And I, and so that to me is where, again, these there's, I'm echoing some of the points that Adam expressed with me on that podcast where I said, wow, man, that really is a, it's a really moving way to talk about it. And I was moved listening to that perspective. And, and I've had some great mentors in my life that are more religious people that I've debated this with them when I was younger and I've come around to their way of thinking. And when you look at some of the amazing things that people have done in their lives, who grew up with it, and in abnormal upbringing, they were adopted into a different kind of family than they ever would have been in. 0 (26m 22s): And that for better or worse than they've, they've achieved and overcome and done these amazing things. Gosh, man, I would really hate for us to be a society that starts steering humanity away from its potential. 1 (26m 37s): No, and I told I that's the truth that I realized for myself, I guess where, cause my, my husband loves being devil's advocate and he's definitely a little bit 0 (26m 49s): My, my, my misses as well. And there's yeah, I I'm a Leo and she is at not that I'm up 1 (26m 58s): Particular per se. 0 (26m 59s): It's all welcome. Yeah. That's not really something, that's my forte, but I do, I can acknowledge, or I, can't not acknowledge that it is, is on the money a lot of times, but she's an Aquarius naturally inquisitive and argumentative. And I am a Leo naturally stubborn, stubborn, and proud. And so she will argue hypothetical's with me until I'm ready to put my head through a wall and she'll play devil's advocate until the, you know, till the cows come home. 1 (27m 26s): I know. And I appreciate it so much because there's so many times that he has a perspective I'd never, would've gotten to and he'll stop me. And I'm like, oh man, okay. So maybe I do need to, to sit here and do thought exercise or maybe investigate why it is that I think that this is the way to go and I do. And it kind of aligns with what's happening with these vaccine mandates too. So it's at what level do you want the government or the state saying you can, or can't do this thing right. To your body. And I was like, ah, yeah, it goes into that slippery slope logic, which some people say is a lazy way to explain things. 1 (28m 7s): But it's true. That's how we ended up with states that do full term, right. Slippery slope, but it gets there with almost with almost everything. So that's why I kind of changed my stance on like for me personally, I won't say anything to anyone in like the first trimester, because it takes a long time. It's still early enough and you do what you feel like you need to do again. I personally wouldn't do it, but I'm not going to interfere with your decision to do that. And year and a half to, to wrestle with that. And most women that are polled, it doesn't matter how early they, they have it. They do describe it as a very traumatic experience and something that they have to psychologically deal with. 1 (28m 48s): So it, my argument, 0 (28m 50s): I've the girl wearing the I've had 21 experience seems to, or t-shirts seems to be pretty unfazed by the experience. 1 (28m 57s): I would say the issue just maybe has a buried down, but I would say, there's no way that's not affecting you. There's 0 (29m 3s): More, she's lying or she's just 1 (29m 5s): Full or she just wants, wants to, 0 (29m 7s): And also being hyperbolic like a comedian would be 1 (29m 10s): Have that shock value. 0 (29m 12s): Yeah, of course. Yeah. So yeah, I, I agree with you and listen, that's why I said, I, I, you know, I don't necessarily know that the Texas mandate or the Texas legislation is perfect, but I do think it's an interesting take to say. Maybe we've just decided that when the heart starts beating that it's a person. And, but I also don't think that a woman should go to prison if she has some sort of medical anomaly that prevents her from making that decision as early enough, right? Like if it's a girl who's continuously having periods and she's seven weeks or eight weeks or whatever, then, you know, then I think that's, but those things should be the exception. It's sort of like, you know, I always liken this to speed limits, right? 0 (29m 53s): Like a speed limit is a law that is very loosely followed and everyone has their own morality and to how much they're allowed to break that law, but we don't remove speed limits based on how many people break that law. Because we can imagine that our society would be utterly chaotic if we just said, well, most people speed. So let's not have a limit at all. Then the, then the degree of danger associated with not having any sort of law would become astronomical. So I think we kind of have to look at abortion in the same way and say, we should have some standard. And then obviously there might be circumstances like if somebody is a prisoner in a rape sex cult, then I think a lot of the laws we might have in place for the standard operating procedure would go out the window. 0 (30m 38s): But because there are occasionally people who have the horrendous misfortune of being in that circumstance, we don't just not have a standard. It's like, I always say like, we allow somebody to murder another person in self-defense, but because that has to happen. Sometimes we never looked at the law and said, well, let's just make murder legal because sometimes you got to defend yourself because what would that look like? Right. That would be insane. And so, and the data supports my stance. Like if, if people have the morality in their heart to never make it a horrifically gruesome decision, then we would never have nine month abortions or eight month abortion, late term abortions. 0 (31m 20s): And so maybe the way to steer people away from those kinds of choices is to have some standard to say, listen, this is when we recognize that it's life and anything you do beyond that point is going to be a very dicey decision. And, and we want people to take precaution. Like I want people to take every precaution to avoid unwanted pregnancy to me when 95% are, I'm not ready. The other than other precautions should have been taken and listen women a lot of time in this argument, we'll say, well, wait, where's men's role. Men should have the sectaries. We should, we should really be pushing that in society. I don't disagree. I do not disagree. I, and I think for men who don't want to be fathers, you have that responsibility go take that precaution. 0 (32m 4s): But if you're a woman and you think that men should have the sector Emmys, I would expect you not to have sex with any of them. Any men that don't, if that's going to be a standard for you, and you're going to say, listen, I'm not going to risk the chance of an unwanted pregnancy. And I think men should have a second if they don't want to be fathers. Great. Don't fuck any of that. Don't have vasectomies and you'll change that. You'll change that behavior real quick. Cause if guys think, man, if I, if I want to sleep with a woman who doesn't want to be a mother, I better go get this thing snipped. 1 (32m 31s): Yeah. I, I never understood that that analogy because a forest medical procedure is entirely different than an elective. One, especially when there are a lot less noninvasive ones, like obviously birth control. It's pretty shitty for you. I had a lot of health issues while I was on it. And when I got off, I felt amazing. There was a very night and day difference for me, but there are obviously other measures and I know a lot of people that are fine on it, but there's, there's a lot of steps you should take before you have a t-shirt that's saying that you've had 27 abortions. There's a lot of steps before you get to that point. Do you, do you think that, so again, I've, I've seen, I I'm trying to see both sides as much as I can, especially when things get controversial, because I feel like that's the way that I'm just going to decide what my beliefs and stands and opinions and all of that are, I've seen some people say that if you want to stay, stay a red state, you have to pass legislation like a red state. 1 (33m 31s): And I was like, okay, that makes sense. And the, especially with the influx of people coming in from California, and then I've also heard the argument that by making these laws a lot stricter, that they're going to force it to start being blue. What do you think? 0 (33m 47s): Yeah, I don't know. I really don't know. I mean, listen, I, when I was a district manager for Hollywood video, when I was in my early twenties, I was 21. I think I had South Dakota had Sioux falls in my market. And Sioux falls had very strict abortion laws. I think all of South Dakota did at that time. This was, this would have been like 2005, 2006. And you know, I asked my, my employees that worked out there, I was like, well then what do you guys do? They go, well, we just, we just make sure we don't need to get an abortion. And, and you know, so their reaction was essentially that the law did what it was intended to do, which is just force people through consequence to be more pro preventative and more proactive and, and listen, there's a psychology to what makes people do what you want them to do. 0 (34m 39s): There are two, there are only two kinds of people. So people are very binary. Let's forget about gender for a second. People are incredibly binary when it comes to what drives them. People are either driven by incentives or people are driven by consequences. And our society very much splits into those two categories. There are people who their life choices are determined by the consequences of their choices and or their life choices are determined by the potential incentives. The potential wins that they would get based on their life choices. And so I think when it comes to abortion, we have shown that most people are consequence motivated in that, in the process of making that choice. And so that's why I think the law has to change because behaviorally, I think we have gotten way far away from being preventative because the option is there. 0 (35m 29s): And I think people, if there were consequences around the lack of prevention, I think most K Mo in most situations, people will just be more preventative. And we won't ever get to the discussion of what to do with a baby at nine months. Like then, then that question becomes obvious, right? We've established some guidelines for our moral stance as a country. So will that, will states become more blue? Sure. Yeah. I, I, listen, I think we'll talk about a little bit wider. We'll zoom out a little bit from this topic about the political polarization in our country. I think we're at a critical point. And in the next 10 years, we're either going to go to war amongst ourselves, or we're going to divide into two countries. 0 (36m 15s): I think those are, I think we're all inevitably on that path. I don't think we are in a position where we continue to, and that thread right after my abortion thread got a lot of heat, but zero press where I said, in case you thought we exist in a country where we can co-exist with our massive polarization in the way we view the world. I think the public's reaction to me having an opinion about this at all, tells you that we don't, we, we don't live in a society where we can co-exist we are too far apart. And one side is going to have to beat the other into submission, or we're going to have to have like a very mutual understanding that there are two sets of types of people in this country with very different values. 0 (36m 58s): And perhaps we need to go our separate way, 1 (37m 1s): Uncoupling 0 (37m 3s): A conscious uncoupling. Yeah. It's a mute, a mutual termination of the relationship right 1 (37m 10s): Now. 0 (37m 10s): We both decided it's time for a breakup. 1 (37m 13s): No, I think man, that'll be fucking crazy, but I do. I would agree with you. I, I do see us splitting into, into two countries because it's more polarized than I even thought possible to where friends are losing friends, families, losing family, all over opinions. And I wonder so many people say got to this point because we started talking about politics and we started talking about are, are held positions where it used to be don't ruin the dinner party. We don't talk about these things. And I would say we're here because of that. We're here because we never learned how to do it. It was always just stuff at, under the rug. 1 (37m 54s): And let's, let's just talk about the weather. So we never learned how to have these really important and intellectual and opposing conversations without taking it personally, 0 (38m 5s): You're a hundred percent, right. And maybe if we would have encouraged more polite debate, we wouldn't have gotten to this point where if somebody disagrees with you, they'll go to drastic degrees to misrepresent what your position is or where you stand. Like, you know, the first time I was canceled in 2018, the tweet that I shared that was so that got everybody up in arms was, you know, I said, straight white males become the centuries N-word and there's really no difference in how that term is used today, then how the N word was used historically. And that's not a direct quote. That's just me sort of paraphrasing the idea. But essentially my idea was, or my statement was like, we should be fighting against racism in all of its iterations, not just white on black or black on white, like, and this idea that it's just okay, to be openly racist to white people is not going to move us towards the society. 0 (38m 54s): We're trying to go for it's literally. Now we're just going tit for tat. And you guys were mean to me before, so I'm going to be mean to you now. And then there's, you're going to continue this, this back and forth of oppressor and oppressed. And that is not going to move us forward as a society. We have to decide either it's, it's an acceptable behavior, or it's not an acceptable behavior. We can't just pick and choose when it's okay to be racist and when it's not. And, and I always, th by the way, when it comes to comedy, I always think it's okay to be racist because it's pretend we're having fun. Right. And, and that's the that's kind of where I, I definitely get into trouble is because I have this belief that when it comes to comedy, you can make fun of anything. 0 (39m 34s): You can talk about anything. And I think a lot of listen, most of my opinions have been informed over the years by really smart comedians, doing really funny bits that might also make really great points. And, and I think if we start to say, well, if you want to talk about race, you have to be black. I think that limits the conversation. And then we go back to what you said, where if we're only letting one side share what they think about something, then when someone steps out and has a different opinion, they get obliterated. Like I just did over the last seven days when somebody steps out with a, an opinion that you think diverse diverges from the accepted opinion, and that person gets othered out of existence, then you create resentment and animosity, and then you end up with two countries at war with each other. 0 (40m 20s): So, yeah, I, I agree with you that in a big way, we kind of put ourselves in this boat by being too polite to discuss our differences for the last 200 years. And now it's bubbled over to the point where it's very hard to discuss our differences without people getting emotional and violent. And I mean, my God, the number of death threats and that's, what's so funny is that the number of death threats I've gotten in the last, you know, week from women, women, men, I've had, you know, over a thousand, over a thousand men and women kill yourself. I hope your mother should have aborted. You, you know, I've been called ugly and disgusting and unfuckable, and you know, I was like built. 0 (41m 0s): Some of that's probably depending on your perspective, fair point, but you know, essentially they're kind of proving my point because they're in their mind having a different opinion from them makes me inhuman. It makes me complete. It's, it's completely unacceptable. And they have no problem dehumanizing me or telling me my life has no value. Well, those people can go fuck themselves and I'm not going to go away. Yeah. That's 1 (41m 29s): Because Pete, that's the quickest way to try to end an argument is to de-humanize the person on the opposition. And I see that a lot with just existing, right? 0 (41m 40s): So that's what happens with vaccination right now. You know, if you don't, if you're not pro-vaccine, you're a moron, you're, you're an idiot. You you're, you deserve to die. You don't deserve health care. These are major mainstream talking points 1 (41m 55s): That I don't understand. So it was, I think it was Ilhan Omar that was tweeting yesterday. And she was tweeting about, she called what's his name? Governor of Texas, Florida, 0 (42m 10s): Texas. Oh, 1 (42m 11s): Greg Greg Abbott. Yeah. He was tweeting about the infringement of people's rights because of the mandate. She's like, don't pretend that you care about my, about choice over your body. And I was like, well, isn't that, doesn't that work both ways right now. Like you can't argue that it's any different it's either you have autonomy or you, or you don't to some extent. Right? So 0 (42m 35s): Yeah, people leverage that personal choice argument to whatever their beliefs are, right? Like there isn't a standard of my body, my choice that is consistent. Right. You know, 1 (42m 44s): A little consistency would be fucking or appreciated right now. 0 (42m 48s): So great. It would, it would help be very, very helpful. But unfortunately, everyone is just sort of bending that statement to whatever they think. And it's like, they tell you, you need a vaccination and who cares if it's your body, because your choice to be vaccinated or not might affect the health of another person. And then that person will go so far to also say that it's the, my body, my choice applies in the case of abortion because it's only the woman's body who was affected. And it's like, well, no, that's what like a hundred percent of successful abortions. And then the death of another person, like the numbers are nowhere near that. Staggering, when it comes to vaccination, like your exposure to an unvaccinated person does not 100% lead to your death. 0 (43m 31s): There's not a study anywhere. That's been that bold. And this is where we get into the, my view on vaccination, very libertarian view. I don't think my view on, on abortion as a libertarian view, but some libertarians, including Dave Smith, who a lot of people think is the front runner for the libertarian candidate for president for the next election came out and not so many words supporting my position when the libertarian party of Texas said, you know, real men, don't try to have control over women's bodies. Dave's response was real men protect children. And so, you know, and I, I think nobody would argue with Dave's point. 0 (44m 14s): The argument often is, well, what, what are, what are children, when do we decide when someone is a child living thing like you and I talked to the top, but you know, it's amazing to me the mental gymnastics that people have about that. And the problem I have with forced vaccination is there there's no that it does have any effect on another person's health. If I, if I have a vaccine, they have a vaccine, we can both still give each other COVID. And ultimately the number one thing that contributes to what effect COVID has on somebody's body are the health choices they've made and how they live their life. Leading up to infection more than anyone's vaccination status, more than whether or not anyone is wearing a mask. 0 (44m 56s): This is a virus that kind of indiscriminately affects people who haven't been taken care of themselves in a health way. And I am not somebody who is hardly the picture of health, but I didn't have a hard time with COVID. In the three times I had, it was three times, three times, and the first time is unconfirmed because it was the end of 2019 before we even knew what COVID was. But that was the most sick. I was 10 weeks, no taste, no smell, varying symptoms, like death level fatigue, sleeping 18 hours a day, not being able to get out of bed. And we were, I was sick for 10 weeks, like, and I was healthy for maybe two weeks in the middle where I felt a little bit better and then went right back in the shitter. 0 (45m 42s): I tested positive in June of 2020. That time I was sick for maybe a week. And I hadn't, I didn't have any issue with it. I was like, I lost sense of taste and smell. That's what caused me to get tested. I felt a little groggy for a week and then I was fine again. And then I was sick again in June of 2021, a couple of months ago. And it was a middling. I was sick for about three to four weeks. Couldn't really kick the habit or to kick them to symptoms, not the habit. I'm not addicted to having COVID, but, and that, but then I F I've been dealing with for the last eight weeks. I had this like undeterred. I couldn't figure out why I was itchy all the time and found out I have celiac disease now. So I don't know if that was a pre-existing condition that was exasperate exacerbated by COVID COVID Jesus. 0 (46m 27s): My tongue is all over the place this morning. Or if it's just coincidentally and I'm at that stage in life where my body is no longer processing gluten, because that can happen in rare instances as well. So it could be coincidental, but it might not be. And so knowing that 1 (46m 41s): Usually those things are usually brought on by some kind of trauma or intense moment 0 (46m 46s): To your immune system. Yeah. And that's probably, I, there, there probably is some correlation and I, but I'll tell you this in a way it's, it's also a blessing too, because I would have never addressed an intolerance to gluten if it didn't get to this point. And I've, and looking back on some of the other things I'd expert, like part of the reason I don't drink is because my body has always had a vicious reaction to alcohol and I always thought it was the alcohol. And now I'm starting to think it was the gluten that was in beers or, or, you know, some hard liquors. And, and so I'm like, man, you know, I just, I've joked with my friends. I've lost 11 pounds in the last 10 days from being off gluten. 0 (47m 28s): And it's hard to be off if you go out and you eat at restaurants and stuff, cause there's always this cross-contamination and you know, you might think, well, I'm not eating gluten. And then you get 1 (47m 37s): Sensitive. Where can you have like fried food, like fries or 0 (47m 41s): No, I can have fries, but perfect example if French fries are fried in the same fryer as like chicken tenders, I'll have a reaction. My ear I'll get itchy behind my ears and all my neck will start to break out. So it's like a full blown. I mean, I remember when I first realized that it was that I had ordered pizza and that's what made me realize that I had it. And I was like, oh God. And I had eaten half of that pizza and save the other half for like morning. And I was like, maybe I can take an allergy pill and just finished the piece. At least this'll be my, this will be my, my goat, my Harar pizza. And I ate it the next day. And I mean, instantly my hands swollen to where I couldn't make a fist, my feet swollen, my face, just flush and broke out. 0 (48m 29s): And, and yeah, anytime I've bent and tried to sneak a little, I had like two pieces of garlic bread with gluten-free pasta. A couple, probably like over a week ago now maybe like 10 days ago. And it was the same thing. Just complete break-out reaction. Two pieces of frozen garlic bread was like sent me into an allergy spiral. So, you know, it's and, and listen, I I've probably, I definitely didn't help that situation with my diet or anything over the last, you know, 10 years, for sure. So like I said, that that could have been exacerbated by COVID. It might have nothing to do with COVID, but inevitably, you know, most of what causes people's reaction to COVID is their preexisting health conditions. 0 (49m 22s): And so forcing vaccination, I mean, you're not, you're forcing something, it's sort of like the idea of, you know, imagine being forced to vaccine. So you don't get someone sick who does heroin every day. You know, it's like that, that to me seems like their choices are having a far greater impact on their health than my choices. And so that's where I feel like that thing gets very dicey to say, you have to get vaccinated because of the health of other people that the science really doesn't prove that that helps in any circumstance 1 (49m 54s): As I, I haven't seen any information that even hints that someone on the outside vaccination status affects you it's hope the, the whole point is hopefully if you're vaccinated that if you do catch COVID, because now we do know it doesn't prevent you from catching it or spreading that. But if you do catch it that you have an easier go with it, and that simply is what it is. So if that's the case, and I don't understand, I don't understand why it's an argument or why it's controversial or why we're even discussing a mandate because I haven't seen a professional out and say that it impacts anyone, isn't it? What shots are they like the MMR shots. 1 (50m 35s): So like the measles, mumps and rubella, like those are the shots that other people's vaccination status does directly affect you. Do you know? 0 (50m 46s): Yes. Because what happens in the instance with those enlisted, I'm not, let me preface this. I'm 1 (50m 53s): Not talking. So get your medical advice. 0 (50m 56s): If listen, if you're, if we're wrong and you're mad, you're stupid for expecting us to be. But from what I understand, the difference between an MRN, a vaccine and a traditional vaccination, like a measles mumps, rubella vaccine, is that that vaccine, the MMR teaches your body how to kill that virus. And so inevitably you're, you're basically training your immune system, how to eliminate that virus, but an MRN, a vaccine doesn't do that. It just reinforces your immune system to deal with that virus. And so in the case of, of measles, mumps and rubella, it, the logical conclusion to draw from that would be yes, the likelihood of that person making their immune system program to be able to kill that virus absolutely prevents you from getting it or from them from transmitting it, because it exterminates the virus in their immune system, whereas an MRI and a COVID vaccine does not do that. 0 (51m 57s): It teaches you how to fight it, but it doesn't kill it. And so there really is no prevention from you spreading the virus. And some would argue, there are some papers that have come out that have said that perhaps the rampant mutations are related to the incredibly fast vaccination rollout and the fact that we vaccinated these people so, so fast and in such great volume, that it has forced the virus to mutate at a, at a, an insane pace. And now we're trying to play catch up. It's like, we're, we're playing chess. And the virus is changing faster than we can change the inoculations. And, and now we're at war with this virus and arguably we might've killed it already if we had just gone the route of naturalized immunity. 1 (52m 46s): Yeah. I think when it comes down to these decisions that are being made and the stark difference of perspective, you have to ask yourself what your principles are. And what's, what's what you're not going to waiver on. Like what is something that that's the hill that you're going to die on? And I think that it's important that individually we establish those and then stand that ground, right. It's not about, cause I know a lot of people that are vaccinated that are anti mandate and for some reason, anyone that's anti mandate, everyone automatically thinks that you're a loony tune and anti-vax entirely an anti-science and just wearing a tinfoil hat. 1 (53m 29s): That's not the case. I know plenty, like Bridget fetisi is a great example. And she's been very vocal about this since she got her vaccinate vaccine, she was like, it's none of your fucking business I'm vaccinated, but we should all have a problem with this mandate. And it's that thought exercise of, if you think something is pure or well-intended, then you have to hand it over to the opposition and unless you're comfortable doing that, it's probably a terrible fucking idea. So all these people that are like pro mandate because, you know, uncle Joe was in office. Well, what happens, let's say, and Michael malice was, and again, it's like satire, but Michael malice had a tweet that was saying, okay, if the orange man goes back in office and tells you all to inject bleach into your arm, because that's what the media said he wanted to do well, now he can do it. 1 (54m 17s): And it's like, this is where this fucking goes. This is where the, 0 (54m 19s): The slippery slope, it's a very slippery slope. And, you know, regardless of where you stand, like Joe Biden's ma vaccine mandate yesterday is the most totalitarian move. An American leader has ever exerted in the history of America. I mean, you know, and this is hyperbolic, which is my specialty, obviously, but it's like the idea that something like that was passed and there weren't people charging the Capitol yesterday, ish, they should be, you know, praying to God. Thank you. Because this is the most agregious reach of power that a leader has ever pursued. I mean, this is real fascism do it because I fucking say so, or else. 0 (55m 4s): I mean, that is like fire and brimstone consequence government at its finest. And so, you know, and, and now what we have in this country, it seems as a partisan reach for fascism, you know? And so I can't argue with people that think it is more fascist for Texas to stand out and say, we're going to make this determination. And we're going to, we're going to remove rights that the constitution grants you. And so, you know, I definitely enforced state's rights and, and a lot of people concerned like, well, this is the first shot across the bow to overturning Roe vs. Wade. But you can't call that fascism and then turn your eye the other way. 0 (55m 45s): And when Joe says vaccines or else and vice versa, you can't hate the vaccines. And then not at least give the concession that the Texas heartbeat bill is, is changing someone's rights. It's absolutely changing a freedom that they had previously. And so I happen to think one is for the greater good. And I think the other one is unnecessary. That's just my opinion. But I think part of the problem is, is that people prevent nuance from creeping in. It's interesting. You said earlier, like, oh, well, do I want this to be the hill I die on? And that's, and that's part of the reason why we can't even have discussions with each other is because everyone thinks having an opinion is a hill to die on now. 0 (56m 26s): And it's like, no, no, I'm not, I don't have to die on any hill. We can discuss our differences of opinion and we don't have to be killing each other on these Hills every day. 1 (56m 34s): No, and I think it's more about being mindful of that hill, right? Like a hill, the way that I look at ideas, I feel like ideas should be worn and probably frequently changed or frequently evaluated at least right. When I'm talking about principals and dying on those Hills, I think if you really take the time to craft, what is important to you and to your family, I would say that it's not a principle if you're not willing to die on that hill. Right. So Freedom, for example, something that I've seen a lot with the younger generation and just a lot of people on the left specifically, which is like, okay, but it's just your freedom. It's making really light of this very heavy, important thing. 1 (57m 16s): And it's saying almost that you're selfish for feeling that you are entitled to that, that concept, but it's like, hold on a second. That's what this country was founded on. And I feel, I feel even from like a spiritual place, how would, that's not something that we see the pure value in and can't waiver. Like, it's like when in history, have we given some of that to an, a government entity and said, okay, well I want it back now. And they actually received it back. It's like, every take remains gone forever. So to pew pew, 0 (57m 55s): The information act or not freedom of information act, but the, the, the nine 11, what does that, what am I thinking of Patriot act? Yes, yes, yes, yes. Freedom. I'm all over the board, but yeah. Yeah. The Patriot act, we've never gotten those privacies back. He just admitted. 1 (58m 11s): They're like, we're still using it. 0 (58m 13s): Yeah. Yeah. So never in the history of our society in America and the American project, have we ever given up a Freedom and then been handed it back? 1 (58m 24s): Well, I guess where did we lose the appreciation for Freedom? When did we think it's just some something we're supposed to celebrate once a year and barbecue, and that's all that that means to you. And then it's not that people have paid the ultimate price for you to act like a fool online and have these opposing opinions and realize this is worth, this is worth your blood, or it should be, 0 (58m 46s): Well, we have, we have about 20 years where with the exception of the post nine 11 skirmishes, we've, haven't gone to, we really, haven't gone to war war since Vietnam. So we have essentially an entire generation that has never had to fight to protect our freedom. So they take it for granted, you know, and then you've seen the Joe Rogan clip. I'm sure of like, you know, hard times make hard men, Hardman makes off time, soft times make soft men. And so, you know, I think we're definitely in a cycle of soft times of made soft men. We're soft as a society. We haven't had to fight for our freedom. So we take them for granted and you know, here we are. And, and, and Carlin said it best where he set up, we're always willing to trade our freedoms for the illusion of safety, the illusion of security. 0 (59m 31s): And that is, that is the hill that America will die on. 1 (59m 36s): Yeah, that's an interesting thing. Cause that's, that's very hard for me to relate to because I'm quite the opposite. I, there was that meme that was going around and cause it was alluding to that, right. The trait of freedom for safety and it has this tiger, that's in a cage at the zoo and it's, it's all of its meals or predictive. All of its healthcare is taken care of it. Doesn't have to worry about a goddamn thing. It just exists in this cage. And then the other side is nothing is guaranteed, but what a life that, 0 (1h 0m 11s): And which one do you think is happier and more free. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And I think, and it does not surprise me that that is your perspective because, and I don't want to ascertain or determine what made you get into your line of work in the adult industry when you were younger. But the decision to do that is sort of a radical individualist approach to your life, right? Like you're sort of saying, I'm going to do this thing that empowers me and gives me ultimate freedom to have as a career, regardless of the outside opinion. I mean, let's face it, it, it couldn't have been a popular choice for you to make and you definitely didn't do it because you were going to be more beloved by everyone that knew you for making that choice. 0 (1h 0m 53s): It's a hard choice. So for you to be wired, and this is what people don't understand, they're like whores, you hate sex work. I go, no, I love sex workers because in a way, people that are in the adult business or that work in sex are very similar to comedians in that we're both willing to sacrifice public acceptance for our radical individualism in our lives. And that is a, that is an, a kinship that we share that other people who have never done something like that will ever understand. And you know, I, I do think that that is a big part of like, why do people let's get to the core of why people hate what I do. They hate that I feel free enough to do it because, and even people that agree with me in some degree resent the freedom to express it because they go, I could never say it I'd lose my job. 0 (1h 1m 42s): I could never say it. My, my family would disown me. My church would disown me. And so, you know, there's a lot of, I am, it's easy for me to kind of shrug aside the hate because I know that it ultimately, they don't hate the idea. They hate the freedom that I express in and, and espousing the idea. And they hate that. I feel liberated and open enough to do it. Knowing it's unpopular, knowing there will be blowback and not giving a fuck because there's nothing anyone can take away from me by sharing those thoughts. And so, you know, I it's, I think that makes people dangerous in the eyes of those who choose to conform. 1 (1h 2m 25s): Yeah. It's almost anyone that is fully realizing themselves or fully expressing themselves without regard of consequence. It almost threatens everyone else's way of being. And, and to your point, it's saying, I can't do that. So he shouldn't be able to do that. And it's like, no, you totally can. And I think the, one of the, one of the beautiful things that came out of COVID and the pandemic is I think it radically shift the way that people looked at their lives, their day to day lives, what they were investing their time in, who they were working for. What does their fucking life mean? 1 (1h 3m 5s): Right. They were reconnecting with family that maybe they didn't even know, and they were living in the same household. So it showed, and it made people scrappy. Like people were getting gig jobs, side hustles started in e-commerce right. And then they started to actually be their own boss, start their own brand and be beholden to nobody. And I think if more people fucking lean into that, it's terrifying. Especially if you have a family and you know, you have all these responsibilities, but there's so much more freedom on the other side. So it's not being scared to take that jump. Right. 0 (1h 3m 38s): Absolutely. And so in that, in that analogy, I'll harken back to that you made earlier, you and I are lions that are living in, in the free range. And we're V we're deeply resented by lions who have chosen the cage and, and their they'll they'll argue that my Freedom is not worth sacrificing all the luxuries that they have by sacrificing their freedom. And my point is I would rather starve running free, then live a life of luxury and bondage. And the, and those are two ideological differences. And I would be lying if I said, I don't judge those that make that choice because I heavily do. I think that's, I think that's a fucking weak way to be as a person. 0 (1h 4m 22s): And I think that's why we have a president forcing mandates down our throat is because too many people will take the blue pill. They'll take the ignorance. They'll take the life of, you know, they're all cipher in the matrix, right. You know, I know that the matrix is telling me that this steak is delicious and juicy and all of that. And I know that none of it is real, but boy is ignorance bliss. And you know that I would rather, again, starving Zion, a free man, freewill free to make my own choices then to live a life that is fake. And that is padded. And I, I don't believe trading my luxury for comfort or my, my Freedom for luxury and comfort is a fair trade. 0 (1h 5m 5s): I I'd rather be free. 1 (1h 5m 7s): So when, what I think was so curious to was when all of this started happening, like your second cancellation, if you will, and this is like the one, but 0 (1h 5m 18s): This is the second, the second big one. 1 (1h 5m 20s): The second. Yeah. The second one is scale is that food network felt the need to put out a comment. And I was like, well, what's that about? Because diversity of thought, I think is a great thing. It keeps everybody sharp and it makes sure that we don't go into anything that's too totalitarian on either side. Right? You need to have that, that swing in that balance. Again, they knew who you were and they brought you on, you were a comedian and you had already gone through some stuff. So I thought, well, what's that about right? Like you should be, 0 (1h 5m 57s): Well, I thought, I thought it was an interesting choice for them because, you know, like I mentioned at the top, there was a, when, when the straight white male tweet happened, most of the people's intellectual argument was, well, your just racist. And even though that's a misrepresentation of me, that's an opinion that I don't think anybody would disagree is okay to stand against. Right? Like if you really believe I'm racist, then you should stand against that. Because I think we all agree racism. There's no excuse for it. Right. My argument is that like art, isn't an opinion, you know, you know, it's, it's not more racist to make a joke about race than it is for Quintin Tarantino to make the movie Django on chain. 0 (1h 6m 38s): Like he doesn't make that movie because he hates black people and loves slavery. He's telling a story. And, and any instance where I've chosen to use offensive language, the N word or anything else, I'm often telling a story. And I'm often telling a story about my experiences with racism, being a guy who has dated women who are black. Who's been with women who are middle Eastern and talking about the experience of having this face and having racist people just look at me and assume we're on the same team and then start to like, yeah, man, you know what I'm talking about? Just so a lot of times I'm sharing my experiences of what it's like to be a white guy that people dump their racism onto. And, and I try to deal with that in a funny way. That's the way I've dealt with it. 0 (1h 7m 18s): My whole life. When my mom left my dad, when I was younger, one of her first boyfriends significant for a while was a black guy. And this is 19 90, 93, 92, 93. So this was still very taboo. And I remember walking through the mall with my mom and her boyfriend, James and his little baby Jimmy, who was like one or two, who was mixed race. And so people assumed he was my mother's child and he wasn't, he was James, his child from his previous relationship. But I remember the hate coming from every direction white people hated it. Black people hated it. I remember people openly saying in earshot without any attempt to censor themselves the most racist, hateful things, both black and white people. 0 (1h 8m 5s): And I th and I, so that ingrained in me at a very early age that like both sides hate both, both groups have the potential to hate when people come together and that is about fear and that is about survival. And so my way of dealing with it then was about humor. Even as a young kid, 10, 11 years old, I would make jokes about it and I would make them laugh and it would ease the pain and the tension of that. And so that's, my lens is always been sort of tilted that way, where I look at race and I go, what's funny about this, this interaction between two people that's, that could be very hurtful and harmful. 0 (1h 8m 46s): How do I make it funny? And, and so that's always been sort of my approach as an artist about those things. But again, even if I was being misrepresented, that would've been the time in my mind for food network to come out and go, we espouse these views. Right. And racism's never, okay. Cause at least that's an, that's a defendable position. They chose this circumstance, which is arguably the most like divisive topic in America today. And you took a very hard line stance to say that we not only do you not agree with my review, my views, but you regret having ever given me a platform. I mean, they basically just flip the bird to every conservative viewer that agrees with me. 0 (1h 9m 30s): And they got a visceral. If you go and look at their thread, they got eviscerated in their comments. Yeah. The pro-life crowd was like, fuck this network I'm canceling. And I will never support you again. Like you've lost me as a viewer. And so I can tell you why they did it. Probably I can speculate they did it because most of the executives at food network are women. Most of the people that work in PR that work in development that that were involved in my hiring process are women. And listen, I'm being honest. Those women never had a problem with any of the racial material I did when they signed me to a five-year contract, they, their perspective was he's a comedian. You make jokes. 0 (1h 10m 11s): We're not in the business of comedy. If we start trying to be the arbiters of what is, and isn't funny, we're just going to create problems for ourselves. These are real conversations I had with these executives. This, this, this, this topic is far more personal for women. It's far more emotional for them. And I think they, in their mind, they thought that this was the safer hill to die on because they're thinking of it through the perspective of women who think like they think, and I, you know, I think it was a misstep on their part. I mean, listen, they just like, I have to deal with the consequences of the choice to share my opinions. So do they, as a corporation and you know, I I'll share this. 0 (1h 10m 51s): I, I talk about the death threats. The thing that a lot of people don't talk about in these circumstances, the overwhelming number of people that have messaged me Support. And it said you are my new favorite comedian. You're the only comedian I've seen in 20 years stand for something that isn't popular. W you know, thank you for standing up for. I've had women who went to get an abortion, almost died, committed entire life to being anti-abortion. And they're anti-abortion activists because women don't know of the health risks associated with abortion. Here's a great example. How many women die getting the procedure every year? Candace? I have no idea either. I had no idea either because no one ever discusses that, but apparently it's more than none. 0 (1h 11m 36s): So it's like, she, you know, this, this amazing woman reached out to me in the messages that said, like, I, you know, I, I believed all the pro-choice women, empowerment shit ever. And I almost died getting an abortion. And it changed my life. And I've dedicated my life to trying to educate women that this, this, the society is telling you that this is fine and it's safe and it's not fine. And it's not safe. These places are not clean. They're not re really well regulated. It's like, they tell you the, we have these planned Parenthoods to avoid you getting a back alley abortion. And a lot of these places are run like back alley abortion clinics. And so, so many people reaching out with like loving messages of Support. 0 (1h 12m 18s): The, the shift, there's been a drastic shift in my, in like my social media fans. I've lost about four or 5,000 people who don't like my opinion. I've gained about 13,000, that Support the opinion. And so, you know, and, and some people go, oh, well, you're just grifting. Like you just took on this position because you think it's going to endear you to a new audience. Now, this is how I really feel. And I also am somebody who, if you are someone who thinks that disagreeing with someone means they no longer deserve your respect or your friendship or your kindness, fuck you. I don't want you as a fan. You don't get me. You don't get my process. Like I said, on Instagram and my long sort of diatribe of explaining where I'm coming from, you don't have to agree with me, for us to be friends. 0 (1h 13m 4s): You have to respect the process of, of people exploring what their thoughts and opinions are. And you have to be supportive of that. And if you're so closed minded on either side, that you're unwilling to listen to someone who doesn't agree with you, then maybe I'm not for you. Right. That is my whole thing. Like my thing is just, you know, I, I love exploration. I love looking at things from a different perspective and my views will surely continue to change based on my life experiences and the conversations I have with people that come from different places as I do that have different life experiences. I mean, that's what, that's what turns me on as a comedian. That's where I write my best shit is by being exposed to new things. 0 (1h 13m 46s): And I think there's a reason there's a lot of shitty comedy in the world today is because people become so entrenched in their beliefs that they don't experience to anything outside of that bubble. Then they can only write inside that bubble and have a very one dimensional act that only sort of looks at things from one point of view and the only people that can like them or people that agree with them. And the second you deviate from that, you lose your entire fan base. Yeah. You almost become 1 (1h 14m 12s): Who is I? I was talking to Zubi actually. And we were talking about ma I was about my shift and he was just kind of giving me some advice on how to manage my platforms. And he said, one of the things that he did from the beginning that was super helpful is he never put himself in a bucket. Like he was like, he decided he was going to be a rapper and also an intellectual. He was going to talk a little bit about politics. He got into fitness. He just like, he plugged away at whatever his interests were and his opinions were without considering, well, I wonder if no one's going to like that because he was just remaining authentic to himself. 1 (1h 14m 53s): So he trained his base to Excel to kind of expect and accept all of those versions of him and where my learning curve is, is for a long time, I trained my base to only expect sexuality. So when I tried to throw anything else, they were like, hold on, this isn't what I'm used to. That's not what I'm trained to do. I don't know what to do with this. So I think remaining authentic and not being scared of how people are going to interpret it is going to serve you so much better in the long run than just playing to your base. Do you know what I mean? 0 (1h 15m 27s): Can I tell you something honestly? So I'm going to share a real conversation I had with someone about meeting you and talking with you on the podcast. And some of the other women I've gotten to meet and talk to in the adult world is I have said that the ability to peek behind the curtain for women that work in the sex industry has literally reshaped what I find attractive in women and what turns me on in women, because it there's a tremendous amount of, of stimulus in your brain. When somebody that you find physically attractive has this other element of intellectual realism or, or spirituality or introspection, these other things. And I don't know what they call it. 0 (1h 16m 7s): Sapiosexual right. Somebody who is literally turned on by somebody else's intellect, but it's, it's amazing to me that I believe that by women who come out of your industry and start to diversify what the public sees of you, your personality, your beliefs, your family, all these other things. I think it will make us less cold in how we view each other intimately. I think it will make us more. And Chrissy mayor had a great line on the podcast that I did with her right in the middle of the cancellation last week was she said, I think if women were asked earlier, like, what do you want out of a man? 0 (1h 16m 48s): And, and really, if they had to think about like, is this somebody you would ever really consider as a partner? Long-term she goes, I think we would just start fucking better men earlier in our lives. And we stopped wasting our time with all these fuck boys. And she took a lot of heat on Twitter for espousing that view. But it's like, you know, I really think like it's so it's so to espouse on it's like, I don't think I can even like, even for In this, I'm not sure to be gross, but like, even from like a masturbatory perspective, I don't think I can even just look at someone objectively anymore and go I'm turned on by this person, just because of how they look, I have to know what is she like, what's her personality? 0 (1h 17m 29s): Like, what does she think? What are her values? It's fucking weird. But it's like this shift in the adult industry of, of women becoming more open and available has almost made you value who they are as people more. And so it's almost for me taking an objectification out of the sex world in terms of like sex work and porn and everything else. And so, I don't know, I guess in a weird way, I feel like there's something kind of beautiful about that, of like, you know, this idea that like now I literally can't be turned on by a woman unless I know what her mind is like, 1 (1h 18m 2s): Well, that's a refreshing take because I have so many comments that are like, shut up and get naked, 0 (1h 18m 8s): Shut up and shut up and open that asshole. Right? Like, so it's like, you know, yeah. It's but it is. But so yeah, I, I say that because I know you get those kinds of comments. I see them in your social media where there's like, Hey, nobody care about your opinion, bitch. Just shut them, daddy. It's like, and they, by the way, they say the same thing to me, nobody cares about my opinions. Just show them titties and make us laugh. Right. But it, but I want you to know that I do think there are men on the other side of that that are like, oh no. Now I can't like, it's gotten to the point where if I look at a woman that I think is physically attractive and she opens her mouth and is stupid or gross, I'm like, I can't even, I can't even be attracted to that now because it's, she's just an unattractive person. 0 (1h 18m 52s): And God forbid, technology has allowed us to take the objectification out of sex work more like it's, it's just, it has. And maybe I'm getting older. Maybe that's part of being 38 now having been in a nine year relationship. But it's like the, the most attractive thing in my partner is who she is as a person. Like what makes her laugh? What makes her brain tick some of her naivete and dealing with the real world because her life experiences are different than mine. Her she's traveled the world. She's got these tremendous cultural experiences that I've never experienced. Right? I've been all over the United States. 0 (1h 19m 32s): I've seldom ever left the country. I've been to Mexico. I've been to Canada, but I've never been anywhere abroad. And so, you know, being with someone like that for that many years, and, and being in a monogamous relationship, I think kind of shifts gears for you that way, where you, you need more out of the people in your life to, to, to, to want to rock with them. But it, it, it has even in something as transactional as like what you like sexually, like the, the whole sphere of someone's personality, I think now comes into it because there have been so many women in the sexual world who have been brave enough to go. Like, here's what I really think. And here's who I really am. And this is what I really stand for. And I do think you'll probably lose some fans because they're like, I don't, I don't like that, or I don't agree with it, but I think you'll gain so many more who are like, oh my God, I love everything about this person now. 0 (1h 20m 22s): And I think those people will become far more ravenous in their fandom to more than compensate for the people who are like, I don't want to know what you think. I don't want to know about it. I don't want to see pictures of you with your family or on vacation or any of those. Like, they want to remove the humanity from the interaction. And for me, the humanity enhances what you think of other people like, and it's weird, man. Maybe I'm maybe I'm hitting my midlife crisis or whatever. But like, these people will message me these nice supportive things. And I go in and I look at them and they have pictures of their family and their kids and everything else. And you're just like, God, these people are so fucking happy. You know what I mean? Like all my friends that are met are not friends. 0 (1h 21m 2s): Let me say this. All my colleagues in comedy that are messaging me, messaging me, going, you threw your whole career away. I hope you're happy. Like you've killed your entire career. And I, you go to their Instagram and they're fucking miserable. There's no joy in their lives. And I look at the Instagrams of the people that support me and, and they have so much love and so much joy in their lives. And it's like, I'd rather do shows at coffee shops with 30 of those people than arenas filled with 20,000 people that fucking hate their existence. 1 (1h 21m 33s): Yeah. That's, that's interesting. I saw your tweet too, that you were saying for all those people that are saying, I just destroyed my career. I'm just getting started. And I started laughing and I think it's the same. I think it's happening in a lot of industries, but specifically ones that kind of live on the outskirts of what's deemed acceptable. So I would say comedy and sex worker are on the fringes. I think when you see so many opportunities to be self-sufficient and have your own platform and not be beholden to these companies that have kind of ruled to the universe since existence, there's going to be a shift and there's so much more power there. 1 (1h 22m 13s): And I think so many people are trained to still kind of cower underneath what's acceptable and not realizing the doors wide open. And then you can just run through and still be wildly successful. You don't need to have a deal with the food network. I don't have to have a contract with an adult company, right. You can create your own success and then you kind of get to forge your own path. And then it's you get to voice your opinions. And I get to voice my opinions and I don't have to worry if I say that my opinion on X is this, it goes in this one bucket, all of a sudden I'm on this no shoot list, right? That's a terrible place to constantly be living. There's always anxiety. If you're going to get hired, or if your colleagues want to work with you, or who's going to go on, on the road with you, yada, yada, I think that it might be a little bit bumpier in the beginning, but there's so much more to be had at the end of that road, if you decide to like move forward with it. 1 (1h 23m 9s): So I don't S I don't see someone like you being able to be canceled. I think it's so funny that everyone's losing their mind because it's like, okay, you had this show on food network. Great. But there's a lot more opportunity. There's a lot more places that you can grow and be successful. 0 (1h 23m 24s): Well, and the thing that's so funny to me is like the show on food network aided in my shift to have more conservative perspective, because like we traveled the country. I met all these amazing people and entrepreneurs and chefs and restaurant industry, people who will all for the most part, had very conservative, political leaning. And, and I look at the lives that these people created for themselves and their, again, their radical individualism, their bravery, their independence, their fucking tenacity to chase their dreams. And to me to make something of themselves it's inspiring, like I would go to these restaurants and meet these people and be fucking insane. Like I would walk away and feel like a piece of shit. I would be like, I would be like, listen, I might have a show on television, but that guy is a fucking rock star like that dude or that woman, you know? 0 (1h 24m 10s): And by the way, so many awesome women entrepreneurs that we met in the, in the, the run of the show, two that really stick out to me were the two women that own truffles and bacon cafe and Henderson, Nevada outside of Vegas. It's just fucking tremendous entrepreneurs who love what they do. Like that's really what it is, is I think doing, I met a lot of comedians in my time, very famous ones, too, that you can tell really don't love what they do. And we see this in the NFL all the time. You'll see guys that are first round draft picks that are out of the legal year later. And if you, the team does press and they go, yeah, man, he just didn't really love football. And so he didn't make it as an NFL player. 0 (1h 24m 51s): There are a lot of comedians that are, that are successful, that don't love comedy, and that don't love people and experiences and, and life and telling stories. There was very few people. I met traveling, doing Ginormous Food that didn't love, love what they do. I mean, I would walk into these kitchens and they'd be like, they would have like a Thanksgiving and they go, this is everything I do taste. It all experience it all. And you know, obviously we all got enormously fat doing the show, but just these, these, these rockstar people who were in love with their occupation. And so, you know, by nature of like being around those people and listening to their stories and what my biggest regret about Ginormous Food is that we didn't tell their stories enough. 0 (1h 25m 36s): It was like food porn for lack of a better word was the show. And one of the points of contention in the show leading up to them, not picking up my contract was I D I wanted more creative control over the show. I wanted more money, which comes along with that, but I wanted the creative control to say some of these people have tremendous stories. And I think sometimes we need to break format to tell their story. Like, I, this segment shouldn't be about the 20 pound burger they made because we asked them to, should be about this, this person surviving cancer and his, and before crowdsourcing, his entire community donating money to keep his restaurant afloat while he was getting chemotherapy and couldn't run his restaurant, like that's a fucking story. 0 (1h 26m 18s): That's something I would want to watch. And, and also I'm a talented enough guy to, to, to interview someone and get that story out of them and then go into the kitchen and make a fucking asset of myself as well. Like, give me the freedom to do that and, and give us the creative license to know this is a moving story. And this is what needs to be told. And they did, they were so format focused. They were like, Nope. Your show is about being a silly fat tinted bitch. And you are, we're not going to entrust you to tell these people's stories. We're not going to let you in, and we're not going to let them tell them. And you know, that was a very creative, you know, that was a very big creative difference that we had going into the, again, one of the many factors in them not choosing to renew my contract was I've really wanted to make a different show. 0 (1h 27m 10s): And I shared a post. People can go back on Facebook when they move the show from food network to travel. My producer at my production company told me, like, we might be able to start doing more of that. So I was excited because I w I went on social media and said, I know this, this looks like a demotion going from food network to travel channel. But I feel like we might actually start to make the show I really want to make. And the fucking Network lost their mind that I shared that they were like, how dare you? How dare you say that you, you want the show to be different. And I go, I'm being honest. Like, I'm B, I've shared these thoughts with you guys. I'm sharing them with my fans. And, you know, and, and some of my really close fans and friends would watch the show. 0 (1h 27m 52s): And they're like, yeah, it's cool to see you on TV. But like, you're so much more than that character that they have you playing. Like, you're not some goofy barbecue dad. You're like a really smart introspective, clever guy. And there's, there's more you could be doing with that show. And, you know, I talked to many other people in food and the food network world, like Duff, Goldman, and, and Duff told me, he goes, and Bobby Flay said the same thing. He goes, everybody gets into this business wanting to be the next Anthony Bordain. And the reality is, is we're all very lucky if we can just be the next guy ferry. And I said, I said, man, that sucks. Like, that's just a dream crusher, right. 0 (1h 28m 32s): Because you're just like, like obviously comfort. It's the cage, it's the cage. It's they just go, well, I'd rather, I'd rather have a show than not have a show at all. So I'll take the shitty pay and I'll do it. However they demand. I do it and I'll wear the clothes they give me and I'll let them change my hair. And I'll, I'll be a person that I'm not, and it turns into acting, right. So, you know, it's and listen, those kinds of things happen in every industry and in every profession, like, you know, at everybody's job, they're always trading a little bit of freedom for more comfort and more ease and more likeability. 0 (1h 29m 12s): And I, one of the reasons why I am this way as a person is that I've never been liked, even when I do all of the right things, the quote unquote, right. Things. I'm a guy who always, there's always a chunk of people that will just never fucking like me because maybe it's my red hair. Maybe it's my face. Maybe it's the way I talk. And so I grew up my entire life going, there's no amount of bending to other people's will, that will make me beloved by everyone. So if I'm going to go through my entire life being hated by a good chunk of people, no matter what I do, I might as well be myself. 1 (1h 29m 49s): Well, that's very wise. A lot of people would still try to make everybody happy, but I was talking to somebody and it was the very early stages of the podcast. And I was really scared to get into anything real, because I knew no matter what, there's going to be an opposition. And he was like, Candice, if you're, if people don't hate you, then no, one's loving you. They, you know, they both grow at the same time. 0 (1h 30m 17s): So good point. And yeah. And, and I, you know, I think it takes a lot of guts to, to step out from what you're used to and express yourself in a new way. But I, you know, for the people that do take that risk, man, those are the people that I like to fuck with. Like, those are the people that excite me. And then I, I like to talk to and interact with and get to know better because I think, you know, there's, like I said on Twitter, like if you're a comedian, who's never said something offensive or controversial and you've never had to stand behind it. I just don't have any respect for you. And I don't care how much money you've made by being someone you're not that that's not appealing to me. 0 (1h 30m 58s): Like you could show me Kevin Hart, great example like tons of money and a big part of that is like not being too opinionated. Right. And, and the few times he has been opinionated, he's gotten himself in a lot of trouble and he's had to come out and apologize and go on these massive apology tours and everything else. And it's like, I don't know if that's worth it. And part of the reason I don't have to worry about making that trade off is because I don't have a family to support it and have kids like I have a partner, but, you know, I don't have responsibilities that make me have to consider the benefits of sort of selling out versus being myself. So I've sort of insulated myself from needing to make those kinds of decisions. And I'm unafraid of dealing with a lack of popularity by being controversial or, or not being, you know, not saying the safe thing. 0 (1h 31m 45s): And, you know, when did you ever re name me a comedian that you, we talked about this with like Tim Dylan versus Jim Gaffigan, right? Like you'll, you might have fun at both, but the Tim doin show is going to leave a much bigger impression on you because he takes risks. And I think in comedy, particularly the guys who take risks are always more memorable than the guys and gals who don't. 1 (1h 32m 9s): No, I agree. 100%. And I think Tim Dillon ruined me because I can't go, I can't go to other comedy if it's not at the same level, I'm like, it just doesn't give me the same juice that I need. 0 (1h 32m 23s): You should go slip into his DMS and go, here you go, Tim, the first time a woman will ever claim you ruined. And he's like, I'm not even trying. Yeah. 1 (1h 32m 34s): Right. Like I'm just getting started. Do you see yourself going back to anything with food? Cause it seems like you really enjoyed it. I had a Twitch where I was doing a bunch of cooking. So I'm also a huge foodie. 0 (1h 32m 46s): Yeah. I mean, I do have a passion for it. I do love it. I, you know, I, I have a show that I've pitched around town, by the way. Like every time I get a Network interested in this show, some shit blows up and the interest goes away. I was literally just, you know, pitching the show again for the first time in years. But I have a show that I want to do called cheat day, which essentially is me interviewing celebrities and athletes and stuff about what their favorite cheat day meal is. And, and the story behind it. Like maybe it was something their mom made or something they grew up with or something cultural that reminds them of their culture. And then the flip side is after we spend a day exploring that I have to do whatever they do to recover from their cheat day. 0 (1h 33m 30s): So like, imagine like I'm talking to an NFL player and we go do their cheat day meal, but the next day I have to go do their training with them and get my ass kicked to recover from that cheat day. And I always thought that would be a really fun show to do. And I pitched that around and everybody loved it and they hate that. I own it. They hate that I registered that concept and that I have to be the one to do it because they love it. And there's so many people were just like, you're too fucking controversial. We could never do something like that. You know, I, I love doing the food thing. I just wanted to dive into people more in that thing. So, and listen, like what a lot of people said In this, this mired in this controversy is like bad food is supposed to be the thing that brings people together. 0 (1h 34m 11s): And I agree with that, you know, I, and that's what I loved about it was this idea that like, no matter where we sit ideologically, we can kind of all get around a table and enjoy each other's company because we all love to eat and we all love food. And so, I don't know, I would love to see a show like that, that sort of would take these people that are wildly ideologically differently and sit them down and find the things that they have common ground over. And, and even let them fight on television, even if they don't agree. You know, like everyone always talks about what a traumatic experience Thanksgiving dinners are with their families. And no one's made that a show yet. It's such an interesting show to watch people fight with their families about politics over a holiday dinner. 0 (1h 34m 52s): That would be great. So, you know, I just think you, I, I just think that there's a, there, there could be a future there like you, and like Zubie told you, I think that's good advice. I Al I've always tried to be kind of open to where life pivots me organically. Like I try not to have my finger on my career so much to where I'm not willing to look at new avenues or new things. I'm trying to just sort of let, I'm trying to sort of slalom with where it goes and then steer it where I think I need to. 1 (1h 35m 25s): Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. You could always do it independently, right. And it's obviously not as easy as people think it's wildly expensive or I mean, bench pair has got his own production companies. Maybe 0 (1h 35m 39s): Shoot me a call 1 (1h 35m 40s): Mr. Shapiro, get your first culinary show with his giant media monster that he's building. 0 (1h 35m 48s): Listen. Part of the reason why I think Ginormous Food was so successful and people will try to argue that it wasn't cause it went away after about 18 months, but it was one of the highest rated shows they had launched in about a decade. And there were people much more famous than me whose numbers never came close to my numbers. Like, like Hannah Hart launched a show. She had a massive YouTube channel. She wants to show right around. When my show started, she did half the viewership, Jeff Dunham and his wife who are wildly famous. People launched a show around the same time. My show launch, they did half the numbers. And so the show was syndicated in 14 countries. Listen, part of the reason people tuned into that is because a lot of people don't fucking like me. 0 (1h 36m 28s): You know what I mean? And like, there were a lot of people that tuned in to watch me fail. And you know, this is what's amazing to me about television is like, eyes are eyes like, you know, and there's value there. And if you guys looked at your business objectively, you would say whether this guy has loved or hated, a lot of people are gonna watch him. And I would think at some point there might be a television executive, brave enough to go fuck it. If people don't like this guy, if we put them on the air, people are going to watch. And you know, let's, let's just see where that goes. And, and with the advent of new platforms like bands or like sensor TV, where I'm at, you know, my boss, Gavin McInnes at sensor TV is like, do whatever you want to do. 0 (1h 37m 11s): Like, I, there is no line in terms of what you want to make fun of, what jokes you want to make, how fucked up you want them to be. And do you have any idea how liberating it is to create in that environment to be like, there's nothing I have to go on. That's so funny, but we could never do it. Which is something that is said in every writer's room in America every day. And I'm allowed to sit down and go, how, how can I, what line can I obliterate this week on the show? So, you know, and that's fun. It's fun to live in that space. I feel, I feel like I'm the only guy that gets to live in that space. And so, you know, but I, I don't know. We'll see. 1 (1h 37m 46s): Not like our clubs when you're on tour. Do, are you allowed to just say what you want or can you be disinvited or banned? How does that work? 0 (1h 37m 57s): Yeah, there, listen, it depends on the owner, the owner, if the, and a lot of times, if the owner doesn't like your stance on things, they don't, you know, that they just won't book on there. I'm sure there are a lot of places that won't book me because they just disagree. Like the place people that have never met me won't book me because they don't like that I'm controversial. But, and, and a lot of club owners are pussies. They just don't want to smoke. So unless you're like somebody who's going to guaranteed sell out a venue, they're very apprehensive to bring in anybody who could cause any controversy or stir for their business. But then there are some club owners who are like, yeah, man, I like it. Like, they're all about it. They're like, oh yeah, yeah, fuck them. I'll book you I've had, I've had three club owners reach out to me and go, I'll book you out of fucking spite. 0 (1h 38m 43s): I will bring you here to say, fuck you to people that don't want me to bring you here. And I was like, that's fine. So yeah. It's like, there are those moments of, of, but it's very, you know, they're running businesses at the end of the day canvas and most people will take the cage versus the, the, the grass and the, the, the what? Where do lions play out there? The Savannah Savannah. That's that's the word I was looking for out on the Savannah. Yes. Yeah, they will. They would rather stay in the cage. So I, listen, I respect them. It's their business. As much as I have the freedom to do what I want to do, they have the freedom to endorse it or not, or to participate in it or not. 0 (1h 39m 23s): I would never, and you never could hear me bitch. Like not enough places booked me because I'm just being myself. Like it is what it is. That's capitalism. If places don't want to work with me because of what I think I don't want to work. I don't want to bring them a fucking dollar, you know? So I'll figure it out. I'll figure out what touring looks like. I've had people, you don't have any dates on your calendar. You're not doing anything. It's like, I I've already been very clear as was Chrissy mayor that I won't perform anywhere. That is demanding vaccines from anyone like performers, audience and the, like, I just won't participate in that. So I've done some stuff locally here and I've, I've branched out to a couple clubs here and there, but, but yeah, I mean, is touring going to be harder because of who I am probably, but I'm okay with that. 0 (1h 40m 8s): There's not a lot of listen until you're like selling out your own venues like Joe Rogan and Tim Dylan. There's not a lot of money in touring. Anyway, this is what I never understood is like I make as much money staying in town and doing my little web show and, and doing brand stuff like, and, and I play a little poker as well. I make some money playing poker, which is a passion of mine. I think it keeps my mind sharp, but I make about as much money in town as I do leaving town to do mid-level clubs. So like a lot of people don't realize, but like a mid-level club will pay you maybe like 1600 bucks for four to six shows over a weekend. So you're making about three to 400 a show after hotel flight and everything else. 0 (1h 40m 52s): And some of those places will pay you like two grand, but you got to pay for your own flight and your own hotel. So you're walking away with a thousand bucks over three or four shows, and that's the club life. Now you can make a living doing that. But man, that's like, if I can make that money staying in town and being creative, why would I, why would I circumvent or stop being myself for making like very mediocre money? Do you know what I mean? So, you know, when you're getting, when you're the level where you're doing small theaters or you're selling out venues and you're taking the full door, you know, that's that's wow. But if you think about it, like for me to make what a club would guarantee me, I could sell 25 or $30 tickets and sell 30 tickets to a venue and make a thousand dollars. 0 (1h 41m 36s): So I could go to, I could literally go to Huntington beach and draw those numbers, 30 people in a small room and sell those tickets and make a thousand dollars doing that versus getting on a plane, going to another state, doing six fucking shows. So it's like, there's really not that that's really not an end game. That's like as profitable as people make it sound like the world of doing comedy clubs is like, it's, it's a pimp game, right? Like it's probably akin to, and I have some experience with the numbers from other friends of mine that worked in the adult industry, but I'd have like girls tell me like, oh yeah, like I did a shoot in Phoenix and it was 5,000, but I had to pay for my own flight, my own hotel, my manager and agent took like 30% and is like, so she's walking home with like, you know, she got five grand she's walking home with two and her holes are sore. 0 (1h 42m 25s): I'm like, so yeah. So it's like the money, the money, the on the top end is never what the money is on the back end. You've got to pay taxes. So there's a big chunk of that money as well. So, you know, it's like, it's, if people make it sound like I'm walking away from tens of thousands of dollars at the level of comedy I'm at, by, by not being safe. And it's like, that's not the money where no one's paying that. No clubs are paying that to, to people that aren't drawing their own draw. So I would rather stay home and do my podcast and do my web show and build my audience. And then just get to a point where I'm filling rooms on my own and sell the tickets myself and make all of the money. Even if I have to do that at a barbecue restaurant or a fish market, or, you know, some unconventional. 1 (1h 43m 6s): Yeah. You could double dip. Right. So if you did want to revamp some version of a food show, you could be traveling and then just scout some locations that you wanted to go. And then during the day, we're at late afternoon, pop over film that, and then head over to, to do your stand-up. 0 (1h 43m 25s): That's what I wanted to do when I was doing Ginormous Food was, I was, I was like hammering my booking agent at UTA at the time. Like, Hey man, like get me gigs at night where I'm usually done filming by four in the afternoon, like get me standup gigs at night. And he never did. Just never did. And you know, so like when they dropped me, when the first controversy happened in 2018, I was like, I was, I've been with you guys for a year. You haven't gotten me a fucking thing. Like you haven't liked the show. I got entirely on my own. No, no. Or manager sent me out on that, like that entire thing I got by myself and didn't have any agent or manager before that. And so I signed with one of the biggest agencies in Los Angeles and they couldn't bring me a single paycheck and in almost 18 months. 0 (1h 44m 6s): Oh, wow. That's surprising. So it was like, yeah, it was just like, they were like, yeah, we can't continue to work with you. And they were like, it was funny. Cause their wording was like, we have to let you go. And I was like, first of all, I thought you guys worked for me. Isn't that interesting how the, the mentality is, is that I work for you, but your job is to get me work. So you're firing me as an employer of yours. Right? Bye. I guess, you know, and it's, but they weren't, I didn't lose anything. Like they weren't giving me, they got me a meeting. They got me a meeting with a company called magical elves that does top chef and I pitched them, shows to them. And then right after I pitched those shows is when the controversy happened and they let me go. 0 (1h 44m 46s): So, you know, but listen, a lot of the people that make that kind of television are choosing the cage over the Savannah, you know, they are their ideas. Like we just want to be in television. So we shut the fuck up and we do what we're told and we just make the shows they tell us to make. And we just, there's no creativity there. Like the people get into to everybody. It's like, it's like Duff said, everyone gets into television to be Anthony Bordain. And we all end up being, you know, a guy ferry or, you know, you just sort of ended up being one of these like faceless hosts that has no real opinion or stance on things. And you know, and guy, at least on one hand, like guy has built a total brand, right? So like, he is a, he's a real star, but there are so many other people at that Network who have worked there for decades and they just they're they're shells of people. 0 (1h 45m 34s): There's just, no, yeah, there's just, no, there's no soul to what they do. They're just fucking, they're just going through the motions and that's, you know, listen, when, when Bordain killed himself, I was like, I get it. You know, it was like, it was not being cold to it, but people are like, how could this guy who's ha you know, has done this whole life and everything. And you know, he's, he's lived this amazing, crazy life. And I was like, no, I guess there's another side to it. That a lot of people don't understand. And there's a lot of like, just to be allowed to exist in that space. You have to give away a lot of yourself. And, and for somebody who dealt with the demons that he dealt with, I understand it. Right. I it's sad to me when anyone makes that choice, but I understand it and I can not, you know, I can, I can see where somebody would feel like they just gave so much of themselves away that there's nothing left for them for themselves. 0 (1h 46m 22s): You know? Did 1 (1h 46m 22s): You watch Roadrunner? 0 (1h 46m 26s): No, it's in my queue. I can't wait to watch it. 1 (1h 46m 29s): And it was good. It was really, really sad. 0 (1h 46m 33s): I just watched the Val Kilmer documentary and I was like, damn near bawling watching it because I knew he was like my hero growing up as an actor. Like I loved him. I loved that. He was weird. I love that he had such range, like his characters, mad Marta again, and Willow was my favorite movie as a kid. And his characters, mad Martin, like my absolute, like favorite actor character in any movie. Like he, I didn't like He-Man, I didn't like G like he was like my dude. And then like, did you watch it? My name is Val. Oh, it's hard. It's heartbreak. So I didn't, I did not know that he had gotten horrendous throat cancer over the last, like so many years, and now he can't speak. And he speaks with like one of those holes in his throat. 0 (1h 47m 14s): My God. And it's just like, again, it's like watching one of your heroes, you know, like die a slow death in front of you, but he's got this incredible existential sense of self and life and the world and his spiritual ism. And, and it's like in a weird way, it's like to watch somebody approach their death and to say he, he literally, at one point says, I'm not afraid of dying because I don't believe in death. And you almost chuckled to yourself, like, okay, well, that's a little weird, but when he acts, when he expands on that and he explains it, like when you pull out and you look and you see the world as like all one life and all one thing in this connective sort of spiritual journey and ride that we're all on together. 0 (1h 47m 55s): You're like, man, what a powerful thing to be able to look death in the face and not be afraid. 1 (1h 48m 1s): Yeah. I think that's where everyone should hope to be. Right? Like that sounds like you, you lived and it was intentionally. And I think that's the only way that you can have that stance is I'm not afraid to die because there is no death. That's really beautiful. 0 (1h 48m 19s): Yeah. It's, it's such a powerful thing. And it's, it's a really well-made documentary too. Apparently he like filmed, he took a camera with him, like on every set he's ever been on. So there's all this never before seen footage of behind the scenes of his movies and, and, you know, and his kids are in the movie, his son Jack narrates the film because obviously with his voice, he can't really narrate the film, but yeah, it's like, it's, I love a good documentary. And I love a good story. And that was like, you know, watching that. I was like, man, this is like so wild. And it's interesting. Cause you know, my girlfriend, wasn't very familiar with Val Kilmer is work. She's like, I don't think I've ever seen any of his movies. 0 (1h 48m 60s): And I was like, oh my God, this guy is like, he's, he's, he's probably the most talented actor to have made so many wrong choices in terms of like he made this choice. And the thing he passed on to do that movie was much more wildly successful. And so like at almost every jaunt of his career, he went left when he should have went. Right. And there was much more accolade and prosperity on the right. And he went the other direction because maybe it's what stimulated him creatively more or whatever. But there's so many people that probably looked at at Val Kilmer's career and were like, oh dude, you like have no clue. Like you have no idea what you're doing. And I look at it and see like, man, the things he did well though, he really nailed like the movie kiss, kiss, bang, bang is one of my all time favorite movies. 0 (1h 49m 48s): And he plays a gay private investigator in that movie. And he's so great. The doors, like I think the doors movie, so many people like it just gets slept on in terms of biopics. And so, you know, but it's yeah, that's a great doc too. So we'll trade doc recommendations. Watch, go watch the Val Calver documentary. I'll go watch road runner. Yeah. It's, it's been on my to watch list for a while now. 1 (1h 50m 12s): Yeah. You're going to cry. I think you're going to cry. Yeah. 0 (1h 50m 15s): It's very, I'm, I'm really turning into a soft bitch as, I 1 (1h 50m 19s): Guess it's, 0 (1h 50m 21s): It's hard for me to watch stuff like that and not get choked up. You know, 1 (1h 50m 25s): I feel like it becomes more relatable. You're like, well, you can see it either in your life or a loved one's life. And it all just, it becomes more, I guess, 3d than when you're super young and head in the clouds and think that the world is made of jelly beans and there's no wrongdoing. And then when you see these dark stories, as you get older, you're like, man, you know, to some level I get it 0 (1h 50m 51s): Well. And also like there's tra everyone has tragedy, right? Like no matter how great someone's life looks, there's trauma and there's tragedy and there's there's depth. And you know, I just think that's what makes people interesting. Like I don't give a shit about all the right choices they made in their lives or the easy ones. I want to see the ugly stuff I want to see. I want to see the warts. Like I want to see the parts that they don't want other people to see because that's where I think we can really relate to each other on a human level. It's easy to like people for the, the likable stuff. Like it's hard, you know, you hear people say like, oh, I love that person warts and all. And I think we've become, we we've become a society that wants to pretend there are no warts anymore. 0 (1h 51m 35s): And you know, that's social media plays a big part of that. And I think that's also why my shifts in like the valuing of life has changed in the conversation on things like abortion or the death penalty have changed for me because I think I look at the way we've become so cold to each other, through social media and technology. And I think I like a lot of other people are clamoring for ways to find more humanity and human connection than other people. Like, I, I, you talked about how the pandemic has changed us. Like, I feel like I'm much more likely to strike up a conversation with a total stranger now than I was before the pandemic, because for so long that wasn't even an option and you know, during shutdowns and things like that. 0 (1h 52m 21s): And, and you know, so, and my favorite thing about traveling the country, whether it be shooting a TV show or doing SLIFE standup is like asked anyone who's ever come to one of my shows. Like I don't go away at the end of a show, I'll literally walk off stage and go sit in the audience and talk with people or go like there's. And there's like some comedians, like I have to acute maintain some level of mysticism. I have to disappear after the show so that the magic can permeate the audience and I can continue to be larger than life. And the dude I'll never be that way. I will literally be the guy who's like shaking hands and talking to people until four in the morning after a show, because that will make the next show better. And the next show better. 0 (1h 53m 1s): And the next show better, like those stories of those people. Like I did a show in D I did three shows in Delaware at the end of April, beginning of may. And, and the owner was like, we were supposed to only do two shows on a Friday. And then the owner was like, I think we should do a Thursday. And I was like, that's the night of this. That's the night of the first round of the NFL draft. And, and by the way, food network ran the premiere of my second season up against that night. So I know it's a night that's fucking devastating. Like our numbers were cut in half because they ran us up against the NFL draft. I was like, dude, Philadelphia and Delaware, those that's a big sports town. They just changed their coach and their quarterback, like people are watching the draft. 0 (1h 53m 42s): No one is going to come to this show on a Thursday night. But if you want to do it and you want to pay me my guarantee, let's do it, man. And so we do it and fucking, literally three people show up three people and it's me and like my buddies and the other comics. And then the two of the three people, one person was a troll who literally came there to watch me fail. And the other two people, one was a girl. I went to primary school with in Delaware when I was young. And she was there with like a guy she had met during the pandemic. She was pregnant. Like they got knocked up. And so I literally just started like talking to them in the show. And like, I was like, man, you guys met during the pandemic. And you're like, you're just like, fuck it. Let's have kids together. Like, let's go for it. 0 (1h 54m 23s): I was like, that's so cool. And you know, you hear all these depressing stories about the pandemic and these two people are like, fuck it. We're getting too old to keep doing this thing. Let's just get together. And like, let's make some people. And I was like, that's. And so I liked the show ended and I got off and I talked to them for like a half hour after the show. And it was like, cool to catch up with her name's Mary. It was cool to catch up with Mary and like, just hear their story. And yeah. So it's like, you know, you can make, you can have fun with those things, whether they're wildly successful or not. And, and that's what it's about for me is like just the connecting with people, like making somebody laugh is probably as hard and as fulfilling as making somebody aroused or climax. 0 (1h 55m 5s): Right. I always tell people like, you know, I think making somebody laugh is just as hard or, or, or harder than like making them orgasm. It's kinda the same thing. But the idea that you can do it, even if it's just for one person with words out of your mouth is like, there's no greater feeling in the world than being able to do that. 1 (1h 55m 23s): Yeah. There's like a, there's a lot of trust that's needed for that, that dynamic to exist the standup and live interaction. So it's trusting the space for you to be your creative self. And then for me to respond res that's why, when I was talking about that one standup I did where one of our friends was not okay. And had to leave like that trust was being broken in that moment because we weren't allowed to express our re response or reaction to the creation that was being given to us. So it was definitely a level of intimacy when it comes to stand up and the crowd, I would imagine. 0 (1h 56m 0s): Did you think that was a fair comparison in that Twitter thread? When I said like, I can't help, what makes me funny? Or it makes me laugh any more than someone can help? What turns them on? Do you feel like that's a similar thing of like, there, there can be a lot of shame associated if you laugh at something that somebody else doesn't think. 1 (1h 56m 16s): Yeah. And one of my girlfriends is always like, don't yuck. Someone's yum. As stupid as that. 0 (1h 56m 24s): I love that. I'm going to use that from someone for I'm using that from now on you just yuck my yum. Fuck you. 1 (1h 56m 34s): Yeah. 0 (1h 56m 35s): That's such a great way to say it. Don't yuck. Someone's yum. That is such a good way to say it. 1 (1h 56m 42s): So yeah, I think, I think that there there's a lot of commonalities there and just, don't be one of those people. Right. Don't yuck. Someone's yum. 0 (1h 56m 50s): Yeah. Such a good, that should be the name of this episode. Such a good it's such a good saying. It's so it's so on the money too. 1 (1h 56m 58s): Yeah. She's got some zingers. She's one of my faves, but yeah, I think this was amazing. Thank you so much for giving me so much of your time. Do you want to tell the listeners where they can follow you, how they can support you in anything that you might be working on? 0 (1h 57m 13s): Yeah. They can find links to everything I'm doing at Josh Denny comedy.com. So go there. I do a show for sensor.tv called next week tonight where we kind of parody news shows and kind of just shit on the hyperbole of that world. That's a world that takes a lot of liberties with the truth. And so we, we do it on purpose. We take a lot of liberties with the truth on purpose for the purpose of making people laugh. And I'm sure they'll tell you, they do it for the same reasons, but we mock the shit out of them for it. And then people can follow me on social media at Josh Denny on most social media, Josh, Denny official on Facebook. And then I definitely encourage people to find me on locals. If they're on locals, they can go to Josh, Denny dot locals.com. 0 (1h 57m 55s): That's the best place to support me. You can contribute monthly. I do my podcast. There you were a guest on the podcast. One of the best episodes we've done so far in that new podcast infancy and talking about the, the bonus. There's a specific bonus show. That's on locals called talking shit. So anybody that's a fan of Candice who wants to get a little bit more of a peak inside of, of some of your shitty stories. They can check out that episode on, on locals. 1 (1h 58m 23s): Awesome. Well, thank you again and stay in this fan of everybody. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Chatting with Candice. If you enjoyed the episode and you know, somebody else that would also appreciate the content, please share it with a couple of friends share on your social media. That is the quickest way for my podcast to grow. If you haven't left a five star review in a while, or if you've never left one, you can take two minutes and give me five stars and write a little comment. It helps me out a ton with the algorithm. And if you want to donate to the podcast, you can go to Chatting with Candice dot com and click that little link that says, buy me a coffee. 1 (1h 59m 4s): All of the proceeds go directly back into the scaling of the podcast and constantly trying to improve the quality that I'm outputting. And again, I couldn't do this without you. So I really appreciate all that you're doing to help me grow we're in this together. So I'll see you next week.